Seperating the posers from the actual champs

[Shane_NC]

I just think its very odd to call a player that can hit 50 L=5 springs in a row, has perfect short ladder strategy, WB strategy, can easily go entire games without dying once on barrels / springs, deep knowledge of rivet / pie strategy/tricks -- a beginner.

[Ohrami]

I just think its very odd to call a player that can hit 50 L=5 springs in a row, has perfect short ladder strategy, WB strategy, can easily go entire games without dying once on barrels / springs, deep knowledge of rivet / pie strategy/tricks -- a beginner.

I wouldn't call someone like that a beginner. However, I also wouldn't call someone like that a person who hasn't reached the killscreen. ;>

[Shane_NC]

""However, I also wouldn't call someone like that a person who hasn't reached the killscreen. ;>""

Can you expand on this a bit? What exactly do you mean by this, the double negative is throwing me a little bit. 

[Ohrami]

If you truly have deep knowledge of the rivets and pie factories, and you also never die on barrel or spring boards, you should be able to get, as Vincent said, 5 killscreens in a day, unless, of course, the fireballs are huge dicks that day.

[Shane_NC]

Watch my last PB game... everything that ive said I did, still have not gotten a KS...
I truly have a deep knowledge of rivets and pie factories. Understand fireball behavior and can accurately gauge freezers. Never died on a barrel or spring, and can do it consistantly... Yet I do not have a KS.

Mitch knows and applies all those things as well and no KS for him either. He is even helping write a book on DK strategy.....

So tbh that isnt accurate at all. It could just be a product of luck or lack thereof.

Watch the game for yourself, 1 pie and 3 rivet deaths. Was on 19-2 with 2 men left, no barrel or spring deaths

http://www.twitch.tv/shane_nc/c/2805453


Yea this is just one game, but if you would like I will link you 3 different sessions that I made 500k+ with no barrel or spring deaths.

[Ohrami]

I watched it live. Surely you can admit that those pie factories were a little sloppy compared to someone with a truly deep understanding of them, yes? Even if you understand them well, however, if your execution is still at a beginner level, then you are still a beginner.

Once you understand point pressing and can execute it decently enough to get deep into the game at a decent (1mil or more) pace, you are entering the moderate level of play.

[Shane_NC]

"""""""" Quote from Kyou-kun: I watched it live. Surely you can admit that those pie factories were a little sloppy compared to someone with a truly deep understanding of them, yes? Even if you understand them well, however, if your execution is still at a beginner level, then you are still a beginner.

Once you understand point pressing and can execute it decently enough to get deep into the game at a decent (1mil or more) pace, you are entering the moderate level of play. """""""

============================================================
Wow im absolutely dumbfounded.... You just did not say that..


You are fucking retarded.. period.


http://www.twitch.tv/shane_nc/c/2874776

Here is the highlight of the last 2 deaths for anyone that is interested in watching. These were not freebies, I did not make a very bad stupid mistake. It's not like I got hit in the foot by a pie, or made some type of beginner mistake, these were difficult pies that in the moment I was unable to notice split second openings and execute them safely during my best ever game.

[marinomitch13]

Oh no you didn't! 

Thar be rage a brewin' 'round these parts...

[Shane_NC]

I am formally offering a $50 bounty to Kyou-Kun (Christian) if at 9pm EST tomorrow night, you fire up mame save state on level=05 Pie factory and can do better than my first attempt streamed live on twitch of 93/100 PF completed.

http://www.twitch.tv/shane_nc/b/456643042

If you complete 94 or more out of 100 you have won yourself $50, I will even send the $50 to a middle man if you do not want me to have your address. Or I will donate the $50 to any players KO3 airfare that you choose. Challenge is there, put up or shut up.

[Ohrami]

No can do. I'll be busy tomorrow. Not that I think it would really mean much, especially when playing on illegal versions of MAME and while playing savestates, which permits seed farming, which means that it isn't really comparable to just playing them in a real game.

Edit: Just realized what day "tomorrow" was at the time that was posted. In that case, I suppose I can do it.

[Shane_NC]

I am not exactly sure what seed farming is but all the pie factories were different from each other and feel free to view the entire broadcast in its entirety. They werent all freebies or anything like that, there were some very tough screens in those 100. Not to mention my integrity goes without question. Best of luck to you trying to hit 94+ out of 100. It can be down but it is going to be hard to beat. Ill have my checkbook ready, good luck

[homerwannabee]

OK, here is what I think should be the standard definition of beginner.  One who can't pass the level 4 elevator springs. 


Here is the definition of beginner.   A person just starting to learn a skill or take part in an activity.

There are people who have played this game for years who have not hit the killscreen.  Allen Staal has played this game what?  Over 6500 times.   I would hardly call Allen a beginner.   The truth is if I went to a bowling alley right now, and played their ultracade, and got a score of 300k if someone actually watched that game who is not in the community they would say "Wow you really know how to play that game".   Like Robert Mruckzek says in the King of Kong "The average person will not pass the 4th level elevator stage."   

Beginner is a term for those who are just starting out.  Making the killscreen the bar to not be a beginner is a bar that's too high.

Sides that is making a very wide standard for beginner.   The term loses it's meaning if you apply a standard like that.  What I mean is if you say something like "Oh, that guy is a begginer."  Well guess what you could mean anything from a person who can't get a score higher than 50,000 to a person who has a 750,000 point score.   I would think you would agree that there is a huge difference between 50k to 750k.  But since beginner is the lowest level when you use that type of descriptor it loses it's meaning.

I think these would be better terms.

Beginner: 1 to 100,000 points
Recreational player: 100,000 to 299,900 points
Intermediate player: 300,000 to 599,900 points
Expert player: 600,000 to Killscreen
Master player: Killscreen to 999,900 points
Senior Master player: 1,000,000 to 1,099,900 points
Grand Master player: 1,100,000 to 1,186,600 points
Best: 1,186,700 points

[TheSunshineFund]

I think there is always going to be a difference in terms used based upon speaking outside or inside the classic gaming community.

Someone outside the community might think I'm the best DK player they've ever seen, inside the community, that classification would be vastly different.

When my wife or brother or someone outside the community asks me if I'm good at some game, I always inquire whether they mean compared to some random person or like Donald Hayes, because generally I'll say no or that I'm ok but my default comparison is usually a top gamer on that title rather than a casual arcade patron. 

Robert in KoK was speaking of a casual arcade patron when he spoke of an average gamer, not necessarily an average gamer within the hobby IMO.  There is a huge difference.

[homerwannabee]

I think there is always going to be a difference in terms used based upon speaking outside or inside the classic gaming community.

Someone outside the community might think I'm the best DK player they've ever seen, inside the community, that classification would be vastly different.

When my wife or brother or someone outside the community asks me if I'm good at some game, I always inquire whether they mean compared to some random person or like Donald Hayes, because generally I'll say no or that I'm ok but my default comparison is usually a top gamer on that title rather than a casual arcade patron. 

Robert in KoK was speaking of a casual arcade patron when he spoke of an average gamer, not necessarily an average gamer within the hobby IMO.  There is a huge difference.

Again, it has to do with a specific standard.  Something that can give me a general idea of how good that player is.  Labeling two different players with scores of 50,000 and 750,000 respectively with the same title is wrong.  Also I wouldn't like it if the 50,000 person was labeled and expert along with the 750k person.  Again the same problem exists.   A person with a 50,000 point game is vastly different from a person with a 750,000 point game.  They should not be given the same skill level titles.  It's a horrible way to describe how skilled they are at the game.

[TheSunshineFund]

I think there is always going to be a difference in terms used based upon speaking outside or inside the classic gaming community.

Someone outside the community might think I'm the best DK player they've ever seen, inside the community, that classification would be vastly different.

When my wife or brother or someone outside the community asks me if I'm good at some game, I always inquire whether they mean compared to some random person or like Donald Hayes, because generally I'll say no or that I'm ok but my default comparison is usually a top gamer on that title rather than a casual arcade patron. 

Robert in KoK was speaking of a casual arcade patron when he spoke of an average gamer, not necessarily an average gamer within the hobby IMO.  There is a huge difference.

Again, it has to do with a specific standard.  Something that can give me a general idea of how good that player is.  Labeling two different players with scores of 50,000 and 750,000 respectively with the same title is wrong.  Also I wouldn't like it if the 50,000 person was labeled and expert along with the 750k person.  Again the same problem exists.   A person with a 50,000 point game is vastly different from a person with a 750,000 point game.  They should not be given the same skill level titles.  It's a horrible way to describe how skilled they are at the game.

You would need to define the arena in which are using your comparison.  Those who are involved in the classic gaming community and those who are not for example?  I see plenty of recreational players at the local arcade.  They are nowhere near 300k on DK.