Seperating the posers from the actual champs

[ChrisP]

This thread has inspired me to redouble my efforts to start a dick-measuring contest where consistency is the big factor.

"Pace" is so 2012. 

[Mary McManus]

I am an actual champ, I actually "earned" my place in the games history

... by running boards.

By running boards yes........and so did Billy in 1982.
A lot of the point pressing used today most likely would not be allowed by TG back then. It would just be point leaching.

I am an actual champ, I actually "earned" my place in the games history unlike Steve Wiebie who shows up with his movie pals and simply buys it like a loaf of bread or carton of milk and exploits it for his own gain.

 Walter, Billy and Steve Saunders were too busy cashing their payoff checks to do any fact checking or to even care. Keep in mind these are the same people who claim to be "gaming historians"...(yea go figure)

I was playing the game long before it became popular and trendy thanks to the fraudulent DOC.

Its sad to see such a blind cult following. But guess what, when the KoK movie crooks want to re-boot the subject material, its going to be someone else with the higher DK score  that gets shafted next time with ........."We just  can't verify Hank or Deans score as they are constantly disputed and we have no way to contact them).......... meanwhile Billy and Steve will be cashing their checks and not care................yes history will repeat itself.

Dude, you arent the champ of shit. Your score that got dropped from KoK has been topped by at least 35 players, probably over 100 from BITD...

You are a cry baby and as you can see from the overwhelmingly negative response to your first ever post here, The DK community is above you and your cry baby bullshit.

Grow up. If you want to be part of this new group and be accepted you will have to change your tact, if not you'll be back playing in your basement in your tightie whities, submitting tapes of scores nobody cares about to get yourself a sweet 20th place...

-Ken

O.K. "DUDE"..............
and yo "DUDE"........... where were these 35 other people 13 years ago before KOK........"DUDE?
Oh ,that's right they weren't there ..........and neither was Steve Wiebe..........but I was.
So why am I seeing a film claiming to be a documentary Stating that Steve was the first to break Billys 1980's record?
Why did I see my legit score lied about and covered up?
Why did these people get paid money based off something I actually did?

And can you tell me why my score was dropped?
 6 years latter, and I have yet to get a straight answer from the so-called "experts" and "Officials" I don't think I'll get one.

 I'ts dirty politics like this is why Guinness dropped TG.

You can say  crybaby all you want and imply immaturity  by saying "grow up"
I'm just  standing up for myself and rightfully so.

Also are you implying that someone who plays at home is not as good as one that spends hundreds of dollars to travel just to do the same thing?

Since when did playing in a crowded arcade become a rule for submission?

[Scoundrl]

O.K. "DUDE"..............
and yo "DUDE"........... where were these 35 other people 13 years ago before KOK........"DUDE?
Oh ,that's right they weren't there ..........and neither was Steve Wiebe..........but I was.
So why am I seeing a film claiming to be a documentary Stating that Steve was the first to break Billys 1980's record?
Why did I see my legit score lied about and covered up?
Why did these people get paid money based off something I actually did?

And DUDE, who gives a fuck besides you?

Steve is one of the nicest guys in the hobby, PERIOD. You are a negative, energy sucking troll and THAT is your answer to why you were dropped. If you truly cannot see that then you have some serious self help work in front of you.

You wont get away with the same antics you pull all over the net here, this community is far more knowledgeable than you about all things DK. Many MANY smart, qualified and HAPPY players hang out here. Take your SHIT attitude back to alt.rec.whateverthefuck and come back when you have learned some social grace.

-Ken

[marinomitch13]

I'm just  standing up for myself and rightfully so.

You are defending yourself, and I don't think anyone here has a beef with that. We understand that you got screwed by KoK. We all recognize your past achievements and understand that most of KoK was staged/phony/bunk/etc.

However, as per the original post of this thread, you're not just defending yourself... you've also proposed some things... some things that would bring others down and handicap them. I think these ideas are shortsighted, and I doubt anyone would agree with you on this matter. Just don't take our disagreement on this issue to mean we reject all of your opinions (like how you got edited/written out of KoK). In the same way in which treating point pressing as leaching, or saying a game has to be played at a live venue for it to count, requiring a minimum pace is, likewise, silly. Leave the qualifying standards as fair and open as they can be.


On another note, it's nice that you've finally gotten out from behind your alias. Now... officially... welcome to the forums, Tim!

[f_symbols]

O.K. "DUDE"..............
and yo "DUDE"........... where were these 35 other people 13 years ago before KOK........"DUDE?
Oh ,that's right they weren't there ..........and neither was Steve Wiebe..........but I was.
So why am I seeing a film claiming to be a documentary Stating that Steve was the first to break Billys 1980's record?
Why did I see my legit score lied about and covered up?
Why did these people get paid money based off something I actually did?

And can you tell me why my score was dropped?
 6 years latter, and I have yet to get a straight answer from the so-called "experts" and "Officials" I don't think I'll get one.

 I'ts dirty politics like this is why Guinness dropped TG...


This was CLEARLY the issue all along.

WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH the people who play the game now.  We can't fix your "past wrongs" and this "deviation" from your OP shows that it was unbiased, based on resentment and clearly a personal grudge. WE are NOT TG, or the People who chose to make a movie.  This thread isn't about your "omission" from the KOK, it's about you trying to tell people how to play, which you have no right to do. 

Stop Changing the Subject, if you want to talk about the nasty Hollywood folk, start another thread.

What happened to you in the past, in NO WAY JUSTIFIES your desire to dictate how others can play the game.  Go back to your hole in the ground, unless you have something constructive to add to this community.

[Mary McManus]

O.K. "DUDE"..............
and yo "DUDE"........... where were these 35 other people 13 years ago before KOK........"DUDE?
Oh ,that's right they weren't there ..........and neither was Steve Wiebe..........but I was.
So why am I seeing a film claiming to be a documentary Stating that Steve was the first to break Billys 1980's record?
Why did I see my legit score lied about and covered up?
Why did these people get paid money based off something I actually did?

And can you tell me why my score was dropped?
 6 years latter, and I have yet to get a straight answer from the so-called "experts" and "Officials" I don't think I'll get one.

 I'ts dirty politics like this is why Guinness dropped TG...


This was CLEARLY the issue all along.

WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH the people who play the game now.  We can't fix your "past wrongs" and this "deviation" from your OP shows that it was unbiased, based on resentment and clearly a personal grudge. WE are NOT TG, or the People who chose to make a movie.  This thread isn't about your "omission" from the KOK, it's about you trying to tell people how to play, which you have no right to do. 

Stop Changing the Subject, if you want to talk about the nasty Hollywood folk, start another thread.

What happened to you in the past, in NO WAY JUSTIFIES your desire to dictate how others can play the game.  Go back to your hole in the ground, unless you have something constructive to add to this community.



I wasn't trying to be condesending or dictitorial in the original post.
 I'll re-phrase it. I thought that those who can set a good pace should be recognized and placed somehow even though they may end up with a lower score. Risk vs. Reward factor.
 Rather than a rule how about a bounty for the best average pace starting at level 5?

[lakeman421]

Has anyone seen my pants?

[Shane_NC]

Alright, I may catch some flack for this, but I am going to play devil's advocate here.

First off, I can say here that everyone respects your abilities as a player and your place in history. You were playing the game, and were dedicated to it when few others were. You are definetely part of the old school in a good way. You are a big name player within the DK community and the "folklore" involed with Donkey Kong. Here, at the DKF, - more than anywhere else in the world, we understand what happened in KoK and how you got shafted on that end. As a documentary I believe at bare minimum you deserved an honorable mention if not a lot more than that. We all know you were the ORIGINAL KING OF KONG.

I believe it's possible I know what you were impling by your original post. Since the Kong Off is billed as the Super Bowl/Olympics of Donkey Kong it only seems right for all dedicated players to play at a 1m+ pace and possibly be able to actively challenge the WR. That is excited and would demonstrate the best of the "sport that is DK".

However, you choose your words very poorly. I think a lot of people took that very personally. You really did a bad job of expressing your opinion in a way that wasn't going to spawn a nuclear meltdown. You brought that on yourself. I am CERTAIN you could have worded it in such a way as to not envoke the response that you have recieved. Just check the paragraph above. Some people might have disagreed, but not in the snakebite fashion you see.

I personally think you are a good person to have here at the DKF. You are THE Tim Sczerby, a big name within the DK community. Everyone knows who you are. And you are  one of the undeniable godfathers of Donkey Kong. I think having you around could lend a cool perspective on the game, and I wouldn't mind getting past all the bullshit and just talking to you and picking your brain on strategy. AS IM SURE MANY PEOPLE WOULD.

However, since you came off on such a bad foot, just man up and apologize for the poor choice of words, and LETS ALL PUT THIS SHIT BEHIND US. I personally would like to have you around , have everyone chilled out, all wrongs forgiven and we can get back to DK with another valuable addition to our community. Because this is all about Donkey Kong and our love for the game, we are all the same in that regard be it champion or newbie.

[Mary McManus]

I assume you are referring to the online 'open' tournaments.  Although it's not a bad idea in theory, there are many problems with it.  Ideas like this were tossed around for the first Kong Off but ultimately it was decided to make it highest final score regardless of pace.

First some people simply cannot play at this pace.  If you were to enforce a pace, it would exclude many people which somewhat defeats the purpose of an 'open'.

It would greatly complicate matters (refereeing would be a nightmare) and would create many 'what if' scenarios.  What if someone was averaging 55K per level until L21 when they got nervous and only got a 50K level 21.  Would that score be disqualified?

Also why 55K?  Why not 52.5K or 57.5K or 60K?  55K is somewhat arbitrary.  I'm sure Dean would love a 60K per level tournament.

In the end it becomes part of the strategy.  You have to figure out what's the highest pace you can finish a game within the time frame allotted.  It's not good strategy to play 'all out' for these tournaments.  I've seen Ben play at much higher pace deep into the game so even Ben was holding back in that game.  Was his game the 'best' game of the weekend?  Probably but he didn't finish it so he didn't deserve to win.  Same thing happened at KO1 and 2.  At KO1 Dean had a 900K game on pace to beat me but he didn't finish it and at KO2 Dean and I both had 900K games on pace to beat Jeff.  Were they better games than the winning games?  Maybe but by the rules they didn't deserve to win.



I think I should've rephrased my title better. It was not meant to be condesending or dictitorial, I don't always word smith things. I thought it would be benificial to some of the players that really do go all out to have thier score pace/ potential recognized even if they finish with a lower score than others who just try for distance.

There seems to be a bounty for just about every scoring aspect, so why not this one?


And  yes  after 6 years

[ChrisP]

The specifics would have to be hammered out, but I think a pace bounty is actually a great idea.

[Martin Laing]

I love running the boards; I find this more ENJOYABLE than point pressing.

If it wasn't for KoK I would never have started playing. Yes it may be fabricated, and events missed out, but it got a lot of people interested in DK.

I want to compete in the up-coming open qualifier in October. I have no way of getting to The Kong Off but it is one way for me to be involved. I will likely run boards first before trying to point press. I want to get a single man kill screen. I don't know what sports you Americans play but isn't it like some teams take risks and some play it safe; different styles to try and get the best result. For me, running the boards has been a way to develop my skill level.

Awesome post Corey.

[Mary McManus]

I am sorry that you are upset about what happened to you. I empathize with you. I would not want that to happen to me. Unfortunately there is nothing that can be done about what happened in the past. It happened. It had positive and negative effects. We must embrace the value that is there, the good that has been done, and forgive where we have been overlooked. But looking forward, what can we do about that?

First, we must get passed the old emotions and embrace the facts. I don't think there is a single person in this community that does not understand what happened, and who can truly appreciate the fact that you once held the World Record. This community is evidence-based and historical in all that it does. The history of the World Record is definitely recognized by us as noted in this blog spot post: http://donkeykongblog.blogspot.com/2011/12/donkey-kong-world-record-history.html.

Second, we will only draw negativity to ourselves if we beginning speaking in the manner as is contained in this original post. It is unclear what is meant by a submission rule. Are you talking about TG, or the High Score Lists that I manage, or the open tournaments?

Third, I don't think of the community as a blind cult following lies. I think of us as enjoying a game, and spending time together while doing it, making friends, and coming together for a common purpose. I created the High Score List because I wanted to support the hobby, I wanted the girls to look at names on the High Score List and say "hey, I see you are good at Donkey Kong". In reality, I wanted to support people who liked the game.  I didn't care about their pace, their high score, or their skill level. I cared about them and that is where it starts. Once I got to know people, and connect with them, I began to think of ways that I could help enhance their enjoyment of Donkey Kong. So I created the high score lists to help people track their progress, I created training videos to assist people with new ideas, I am creating a website to further give to the community as a whole. Serving people, making friends, enjoying healthy competition, encouraging one another... this is what I think we are about.

Thank you Corey, I didn't mean for the post to sound the way it did , then everyone including myself went on the defensive.............and old phobias were triggered again. I can see how it could be misunderstood.

What I was trying to say is how about a seperate catagorey or submission for high pacing games.
or bounty? That  way the people that want to go all out can do so. It takes some effort to really press for points........luck as well.....
13+ years ago ,with some skill ,..and interest that hardly anyone had for the game, running the boards was enough, but with all the good players that  have cropped up in recent years, using point pressing (or leaching) the bar is raised...........I don't see it getting much higher.......the end is near.

[homerwannabee]

P2dose I would hardly call my statement retarded..........especially since your WR in crazy Kong was almost beat by my 662,xxx game a few weeks ago at L=22-1 ( and yes I can clear the L=22-1 "Kill Screen" in crazy Kong for an extra 15k points  ending on the riviet board  at L=22-4) but this would've violated TG rules at the time.............but since TG is nolonger the official score keeper  I will assume employing the trick at L22-1 is now acceptable..........which I will use next time for an extra 15k points before the actual kill screen which is the L=22-4 rivets.
If anyone could understand the logic behind my statement I would've assumed it would be one of the higher ranking players such as yourself.

So you're saying it's not "Mentally challenged" because you have a good chance at beating Phil at Crazy Kong despite him having a score that is 50k higher than yours on Donkey Kong.   So by that logic nothing I ever say is dim-witted because despite the fact I don't have the highest score on Donkey Kong 690k no one can come close to my Donkey Kong 3 score.  So na ner, na ner, boo boo.

[JNugent]

Hey Tim, welcome to the forums!  Like I mentioned in my comment on Cat's TG article, it was really great to be able to see you play during the WCQ #2, hope to see you around here more and more in the future!   

[stella_blue]

Rather than a rule how about a bounty for the best average pace starting at level 5?

Now THAT is a suggestion I can fully support.

The specifics would have to be hammered out, but I think a pace bounty is actually a great idea.

Me too, Chris.

As for the details, there are 2 that immediately come to mind:

Future Death Point Values

As I see it, this is a non-issue.  If we're looking at a player's "final" pace (at the beginning of the stage where the final death occurs), the points from deaths 1-3 have already been determined.

Mid-Game Strategy Shifts

There will likely be a variety of opinions on this one.  How do you measure the "huge start, then run boards" approach of Player A, against the "warp to L05, then double hammer" strategy of Player B?

Personally, I like Hank's suggestion of using the least squares regression line.

This whole idea should encourage some lively debate, and deserves a thread of its own.