DK Submission Rules

[stella_blue]

No I don't think this is a good idea.  The 8 way doesn't really help anyone.  Just waiting for Donkey Kong to realease his barrel before going up is much more effective than risking Jumpman's life on an 8 way on the ladder.  I don't get it.  How is the 8 way an advantage?  It's not.  You're being ticky tack of you put this as a rule.

The 8-way allows a player to steer barrels while climbing a ladder (without stopping).  Hank conducted a few experiments on his stream the other night, and demonstrated that it's possible to do.  He has summarized his findings here:

Steering barrels while climbing ladders - 8 way stick

[homerwannabee]

No I don't think this is a good idea.  The 8 way doesn't really help anyone.  Just waiting for Donkey Kong to realease his barrel before going up is much more effective than risking Jumpman's life on an 8 way on the ladder.  I don't get it.  How is the 8 way an advantage?  It's not.  You're being ticky tack of you put this as a rule.

The 8-way allows a player to steer barrels while climbing a ladder (without stopping).  Hank conducted a few experiments on his stream the other night, and demonstrated that it's possible to do.  He has summarized his findings here:

Steering barrels while climbing ladders - 8 way stick

Yes, I get that.  But how is that advantageous in the game?  There is a 1 in 5 shot that the barrel will not steer, and you will lose your life trying such a move.  Again I don't see this as a great advantage.

[Fast Eddie]

its definately marginal, but either way it does kinda change the game...i think it should be in the rules regardless of whether its an advantage...

 

[corey.chambers]

I can give a good case in point. When I am going up the ladder to the 4th girder, and I want to steer the barrel on the right, I need to throw in that quick input which stops my upward motion for a moment. It would be to my advantage to not work as hard, use the diagonal and get myself to the top of the ladder quicker. Cornering could give someone that extra edge and could actual save someone's life in a tight bind by maximizing efficiency. Besides, there is a 25% chance that a barrel will not steer but it is not being proposed to be used to put oneself into a risky situation. My proposal stands. I do not think that this is ticky tack at all. Rather, now that new evidence has been offered to show that this can be exploited and can be used to easily simplify inputs and maximize efficiency is enough reason on its own to offer the proposal. If I recall correctly, wasn't one of Weibe's scores rejected on TG because of this issue?

[marinomitch13]

I think adding this to the rules in legitimate.

In the example of using it while on the very middle ladder on the barrel screen (the example Corey gave above), you may actually gain just enough of an advantage to actually significantly decrease the difficulty of then going from the 4th to the 5th girder (which I think most agree is the hardest part of the 'transition'). The extra time saved could translate into enough distance to be able to 'beat' barrels to the top of the long ladder under Kong that you might not have been able to do otherwise. It may also give you enough time to get to the safe spot between the ladders a lot sooner than usual, by not setting you up in a situation(which is fairly common) where if you were to immediately run left after reaching the top of the (middle) ladder, you would coincidentally steer a barrel down Kong's ladder too (effectively causing you to have to delay). This sort of potential advantage I'd actually see as quite serious.

[corey.chambers]

Ok, I have officially decided, based upon the discussions we have had, to include a rule concerning 4-way controls. The newest additions will be underlined, and....Jeff, could you add a news link of the list, that it is updated, as previously discussed so no one misses it? Thanks sir. And thank you for everyone who participated in the discussions.

Here are the threads for future reference:

How is an 8 way joystick really an advantage?
steering barrels while climbing ladders - 8 way stick

[Mary McManus]

No, you can't do it that way.  In the correct version of DK, you CAN still survive by hanging out on a ladder and having the barrel roll over your head.  The key is that the survival rate is low when doing this on the correct version (but it's higher than zero).  So, just because you see someone use a "ladder cheat" move does NOT mean that they are using the incorrect version of the game.  Conversely, just because someone never uses such a move does NOT mean that they are using the correct version of the game.

There may or may not be other differences between versions of the game.  It's pretty much the one thing that keeps the legitimacy of any high score board is to make sure everyone is using the same software.  All of the other nonsense regarding power supplies, the shape of a cabinet, and to some extent even the controls that are used really don't matter -- but it DOES matter that we are all using the same software, which you can't necessarily tell just from witnessing the gameplay.

IMO, scores achieved using anything other than TKG4 should not be counted (or should be tracked completely seperately).

True, sometimes hanging on a ladder just as a barrel rolls over is successful without the ladder cheat, but not that often. Even latter in the game when the difficulty increases a player might still be able to get away with that manuver, but as the difficulty increases, the odds of successfuly using it decrease, but still possible.

 Verification on the title screen of the US set 1 roms indicating (1981 Nintendo of America ) is good verification of the correct rom set being used.

[Mary McManus]

Question: In the rules, when I mention new players to briefly show us some parts of their cab I mention the "underside of the control panel with 4-way restrictor plate". I think this came up before but for the life of me I don't remember when or where it my be in the monster General thread. (Sure wish there was a quick and practical way of pulling out single submission posts etc, so I could create new topics to get that thing organized and into multiple new threads). I may have slipped this language into the rules without remembered what we may have discussed. I think someone said that as long as they use the original nintendo joystick with the four-way restrictor and the pcb is real that it would constitute as an Arcade submission. Though I think I know at least one person that may play with a ms pacman joystick, and I am pretty sure that the machine that Svarar played on was a multi-cab that may not have had the nintendo joystick with 4-way restrictor... hmm. I mean, what is the point of an original power supply too because I know that Ethan has a newer power supply.

I don't think I ever officially decided what would be considered an Arcade submission. Some may have a mame cab with different types of joysticks, and some use a joystick on their computer. So if someone is using the TKG-4 pcb, and they happen not to have a fourway restrictor, then is this any different than a joystick that one could be using with mame on their computer? There does not seem to be a hard and fast rule. I mean, what if one player's score is higher than another, both were on an Arcade, but the one with the lower of the two scores was done with a 4 way restrictor.

Is this a level playing field for an Arcade submission? 

Another question to ask along these lines has to do with the platforms. We have one for MAME, and we have on for Arcade, and I added the Arcade(multi) next to Svarar's to ensure people knew it was not an original TKG-4 pcb, but rather a multi-board. Maybe the Arcade designation can be for those that fit an "Arcade Criteria" and then those cabs that don't fit that criteria will be on the list as something other than Arcade, or MAME. What do you guys think?

EDIT: I mean, if we did an "Arcade Criteria" then we could maybe have a minimum requirement of an original TKG-4 pcb and an original or reproduction of the nintendo joystick with the four-way restrictor. But I need all you to chime in on this possible distinction for the list.

Flash back to 1982, The Time-Out in the Fingerlakes Mall had "two" Donkey Kong machines. I distinctly remember that "BOTH" machines had the "hard" roms where the game play started at L=01 at level 5 difficulty (5 fireballs at L=03 conveyor belts). This was 1982. I also remember one of the machines had a red ball wico stick rather than the regular nintendo stick. Again this was 1982.

The early DK machines, even the uprights, had the 4 PCB TKG2  or TKG3 roms. (easily distinguishable looking at the copy right date under the title screen)

I feel if one is using either the 4 board PCB( cocktail, mini, or early upright)  or the 2 board PCB (later TKG4 uprights) makes no difference as long as the TKG4 roms are being used as the software. I feel both versions of the PCB should be treated equally as long as the TKG 4 roms are used.

The original power supply matters not. What difference does it make if the PCB is getting its input voltages from the original PS or a newer one? The input voltages themselves the game was meant to use are the same either way.

The joystick should have some wiggle room too. I saw several DK, DK jrs. back in the 80's that did not have the original nintendo joysticks (most likely 4 way lever actuator wico's.

[corey.chambers]

Tim, thanks for your thoughts. I primarily accept the TKG-4 but I have recently learned more and have began accepting TKG-3 (4 board set) as long as the US Set 1 rom is used. I do not have any specifications about the power supply, any is fine. And I have not required the original joystick but I do require that only a 4 way be used and this will in most cases require a 4 way restrictor plate so that two inputs can not be done at the same time.

[Mary McManus]

Donkey Kong High Score List Submission Rules

Newest updates are underlined in the rules.


Normative Rules: The normative rules are the most preferred manner for scores to be submitted to the High Score List. It is the players responsibility to be familiar with these rules and should follow them as precisely as possible.

1.   The Donkey Kong Community prides itself on its close connection to all the best players in the world. Because of this, it is required that any scores posted to this high score list be done by the member who accomplished the score. This would require players to become a member of the DK Forum by going through the Registration Process.

2.   You are to post your name and stream name to the List of Streamers so that all players may have ample opportunity to witness your scores.

3.   All scores must be streamed live on Twitch.

4.   Your post to the Score Submissions thread will include your name, date, score, and a link to the broadcast highlight. Be sure to highlight your game so it will be saved on your Twitch account and so that players can readily view the game. This highlight will be linked to the list so you will want to ensure it remains and is presentable.

5.   All MAME submissions are to include an attached zip folder with the .inp and .wlf files.

6.   All scores achieved on MAME may be done on ANY version of WolfMAME using only the US Set 1 Rom. Other MAME programs are excluded. If you are looking to submit your recorded INP to TwinGalaxies then you will need to use WolfMAME Plus 0.106, the only officially approved version of TwinGalaxies.

7.   All Arcade submissions are to be done on an original TKG-4 DK machine. TKG-3 or lower will be examined on a case by case basis and the roms must be US Set 1. Upon their first submissions newer members will need to briefly show us parts of the Donkey Kong Cabinet. You can stream this at the end of your game achievement showing the pcb board with rom chips, the underside of the control panel, and other parts of the cabinet. Members of the Donkey Kong Community love to see a good cabinet!

8.  4-way controls must be used on both the Arcade cabinet and through Mame. The dkong rom for Mame is already set up to limit inputs to 4-way controls, whether played with a joystick or a keyboard. Any attempt to modify the dkong rom for this or any other purpose will be rejected. Arcade players are to use 4-way controls only, requiring the 4-way restricter plate, 8-way controls will be rejected.

9.   The game must have been done in its entirety during a single play. Pausing your game is not allowed and will lead to disqualification.

10.  The Donkey Kong High Score List presently has a 300,000 point minimum requirement.

Auxiliary Rules: The auxiliary rules were created to evaluate scores that could not be submitted according to the normative rules. It is understood that there are occasions where the normative rules were either unknown or could not be followed for one reason or another. These rules evaluate the evidence to determine if it is sufficient in order to verify a score with a high degree of certainty.

1.   Scores that were achieved live at an event, such as the Kong Off, or other live venue where your game can be observed live by others, particularly long standing members of the Donkey Kong Community will be accepted.

2.   In case of videos that demonstrate that the game was played live at an arcade in front of witnesses may be acceptable if other video requirements are not met.

3.   Scores verified by TwinGalaxies will be accepted.

4.   Any videos, such as those posted on youtube, which shows only the final moments of a game must demonstrate a restart to prove that the game was started with a 3 lives setting.

5.   Scores that were achieved on a 3 in 1 machine or multi-pcb will be acceptable if the whole video is available demonstrating that continues were not utilized, unless there is other supporting evidence.

6.   MARP submissions or any other INP’s are accepted. The .inp and .wlf files must be WolfMAME-only due to advantages allowed by other emulators. (It is encouraged that those who achieved there performance with a recorded input alone are to stream their input file on Twitch.)

7.   The requirement for .inp and .wlf files addresses the possible falsification of a streamed game. If for some reason the player does not record their input along with their stream then they must demonstrate other evidences to address these concerns. These concerns predominantly include window capture only streaming formats. These evidences include: 1) showing the start up process of the game by clicking on the game in mame so we can see it is being started by the mame program. 2) At the end of the game, after the initials are entered, start another game while the game is still running. 3) Using the monitor capture format or using a webcam facing your monitor will enable people to see that you do not have any video software open on the bottom of the screen and that you are actually starting and playing a game live on Twitch.

8.   Screenshots and photographs are not adequate evidence of a genuine score.

9.   The cumulative effect of multiple evidences will also play a factor in the acceptance of a score even if those evidences are not adequate alone.

10.   Additionally, and most importantly, all scores on this list must be peer-reviewed in one manner or another. All scores which are being submitted according to the Auxiliary Rules will be handled on case by case bases and must be peer-reviewed, and a general consensus must be given by the DK Community that the score is probably genuine.

Streaming Rules: These streaming rules were created to help support the need for quality streams, and offers some general guidelines for the streaming requirement set forth in the Normative rules.

1.   It is the players responsibility to make sure that your stream is clearly visible at all times and that the score and level are easily recognizable.

2.   If there is ANY question of score and level due to bad quality stream, that submission will be rejected, instantly, with no exceptions. I suggest that you test your streams and check them from time to time to make sure they are working correctly.

3.   It is highly recommended that any streaming, whether Arcade or MAME, show the player who is playing the game, and are encouraged to have audio available with a microphone so we can hear the player and game inputs. The more evidence that you can provide on your streams will only strengthen your score’s credibility.

4.   Streaming formats that only capture your MAME window will automatically require the .inp and .wlf files. Therefore, it is highly recommended that you either have the .inp and .wlf files, or make sure that you are using the full monitor capture, or a webcam facing your monitor, or have as much supporting evidence as possible so that there can be no question concerning the validity of your scores.

Does Twitch TV have to be used over Justin TV as a rule?. A live stream is a live stream if its justin or twitch. Please clarify. I want to make sure I don't have any oversights.
Id like to keep my justin TV account

[stella_blue]

Does Twitch TV have to be used over Justin TV as a rule?. A live stream is a live stream if its justin or twitch. Please clarify. I want to make sure I don't have any oversights.
Id like to keep my justin TV account

Either Twitch or Justin is acceptable, Tim.

Sorry, Corey.  I didn't intend to step on your toes.

[corey.chambers]

Thanks for your question, Tim.

Thanks for responding, Scott. As long as it is the correct answer I don't really mind who answers the question, lol

[ChrisP]

I posted on MARP asking about how to read info from INPs produced by newer MAMEs.

Unfortunately, it looks like the WLF files that .106 produces are going to remain the superior format when it comes to info about the INP.

Newer MAMEs can get the total framecount and recorded speed, but you have to play all the way to the end of the file, and some of the additional info that WLFs give is not embedded in the INP.

Here is the conversation:
http://forums.marpirc.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15224

I still think that INPs from later MAMEs should be accepted though. In the case of D2K (if that HSL ever gets going), we will have to.

[corey.chambers]

That is a shame. Not much we can do about that. Thankfully most people continue to use WolfMAME .106 which is preferred due to the process that is used to verify.

[corey.chambers]

I will be lifting the score limits for the MAME and Arcade High Score tracks and will force myself to update the external references. Please feel free to post all your scores for these two tracks. For those with under 300K scores, post away. Thanks. If there isn't a name associated with a MARP score then I will not be able to update it.