Donkey Kong Wild Card Tournament Rematch #3

[JohnTheLawnMan]

What do you all think of the Wild Card Rematch/Kong Off 3 integration?

[ChrisP]

We have a thread going about that here:
https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=313.0

[craighiphopfish]

This is going to be great.  Hopefully I can participate!

[corey.chambers]

I want to see some good official scores put up during our WCR #3! I wanted to makes sure our MAME players are aware of a new instruction for score submissions for the Donkey Kong High Score List on the DK Forum. Note: This is just a reminder for those hoping to have their WCR #3 scores updated on the High Score List.   

I have included the new requirement of having a player include an attachment of the zip folder containing the .inp and .wlf files to their score post. I am also keeping the list WolfMAME only requirement.

Requiring people to post the zip folder containing the .inp and .wlf files allows me to verify the checksum and speed of emulation. It also requires the player to Play and Record which will automatically disallow pausing, so this will never be an issue. If someone is recording and had used cheats (if there are any for DK) then the input will not play back for me at all. This will also help with the concern of people trying to stream a MAME game that looks real through software and save-states which had been mentioned at one time. Requiring the inp and wlf files will eliminate this streaming issue. Having the files adds evidence to the list which I will hyperlink as INP in the source category. If anyone has their .inp and .wlf files for the game they have on the list, please feel free to put a copy of these into a zip folder and attach it to a post in this thread.

Have fun during the Tournament and hopefully we can get some updated scores! Thanks.

[JohnTheLawnMan]

Corey.Chambers' post consists of requirements that do not currently apply to the WCR#3.  The WCR#3 rules and requirements are listed at the beginning if this thread.  At this time, those are the only rules and requirements to play in the WCR#3.  At this time Eric Tessler and John Salter will be the only people verifying scores for the WCR#3.

If you would like your score from the WCR#3 to be entered as an official TG score, than you will need to follow the official TG rules and requirements, which may be what Corey. Chambers is referring to.

-John

[ChrisP]

The attachment thing that Corey is describing is what will need to be done to get any scores achieved during the WCR #3 onto our unofficial DK forum scoreboard.

So yeah, just for anybody passing through, so that there's no confusion, Corey's instructions are NOT part of the WCR rules.

[corey.chambers]

John and Chris, yeah, my post was to make sure our MAME players are aware of a new instruction for score submissions for the Donkey Kong High Score List on the DK Forum. Note: This is just a reminder for those hoping to have their WCR #3 scores updated on the High Score List. I edited my previous post to clarify this intent. Sorry for the confusion, I just thought it would be a good time and place to offer this reminder so that there is no confusion over the criteria for accepting a WCR #3 score as eligible for the High Score List. Thanks guys!

Edit: Though given the fact that one could stream what looks like a real game as was argued in the High Score List maybe it would not be a bad idea to include this requirement, especially since we are now going to consider the 8 best overall scores from these three tournaments as official placement in the WildCard at the Kong Off. Not my call though. You are doing a great job John, I appreciate all of this!

[tessler1134]

ATTENTION !!!   

Important new announcement: https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=327.0

 

[JohnTheLawnMan]

I just wanted to clarify.  I actually thought you were referring to TG scores.

A couple people had messaged me about rule changes, so I knew there was some confusion.

If someone, out of the blue, hits a top score, trust me, it will be watched, analyzed, and ripped apart by everyone.  That's the glory of requiring a quality stream, and having it available for all to view.

I am going to talk to Eric about reinstating one of the mame requirements we had a couple tournaments ago.  Keep your eyes on the rules thread.  It can be updated anytime before the tournament.

[corey.chambers]

Yeah, once again I apologize for the confusion. It was not intended. Obviously we don't need to have the same criteria for our special projects but I definitely had the concern of people putting up some new scores and then not having it fit what I am trying to accomplish for everyone. I mentioned the reasons why I thought this requirement was helpful to me, and then after thinking about it, I thought it might be a good idea overall. It makes no difference to me what you guys decide for your project, I just didn't want their to be any good scores omitted on my side. I mean, because of the potential of inp playback during WCR #3, which would not be difficult to do, since the process for playing back an inp is very similar to recording one, it may not be seen depending on when the stream is started. I don't recall if your rules includes having to show the MAME start up process to help avoid this possibility. I mean, I am still moved by Hank Chien's argument: "Give me a week and I can stream a 1.2M MAME game on twitch.  With a little extra effort, I could even make it appear live." That statement always stuck with me. And then Chris, I believe it was taught me how to use the wlfviewer , and another gstrain taught me that if cheats were used, if there are any for dkong, this the inp would not play if my cheats were not on. Then I realized that the inp evidence would only strengthen the High Score List, so it was an obvious choice for me. But once again, please feel free to take my suggestions or don't, it is ok with me either way. I just wanted to make sure that people understood my requirement and have plenty of time to get in the habit of recording their inp if they don't want their score omitted from the High Score List. Thanks for your listening ear.

[ChrisP]

I really like the inp stuff because it makes the MAME games completely ironclad. In fact, I never brought it up, but I thought it was a little strange that you weren't asking for inps already!

[corey.chambers]

Thanks, Chris. And to be honest, I was still learning a bunch of stuff about it. It wasn't until we were discussing different emulators that I realized that the TG scoreboard, and the list I was working on were not immune to development and having grandfathered scores. I didn't know about the wlfviewer, or about cheats during playback, so when all this came together with Hank's comment, it now made sense to me. Feel free to bring things up. I may not be as knowledgeable about all this as some may think. When I started the list, I did so blindly, and from scratch, but I muddled my way through, and I think the journey has been worth it for sure, because we got a great list now!

[VON]

I have the inps and wlfs for my games from the previous WC tournaments.  I think anytime you're potentially submitting a score for something, it's just good practice to record all your games locally.  I think inps or video recording, together with streaming, are the highest form of proof we can achieve save doing a score live.

That said,  verifying both a local recording and a live stream is more work for the authenticating parties, and it is hopefully not necessary within this community.  That is, I'd prefer to think that no one here would ever stream a replay (or cheat in any way) because that would be the lamest thing of all-time.

[philt80]

I have included the new requirement of having a player include an attachment of the zip folder containing the .inp and .wlf files to their score post. I am also keeping the list WolfMAME only requirement.

Hopefully I'm not derailing the thread in asking this, but does anyone know how to generate a .wlf in wolfmame versions post 106 when recording a game?
I use 106 to stream solely because it seems to be one of the few versions that doesn't lag out while streaming, but I prefer to use the current version of wolfmame when I can. In versions post 106, upon issuing the standard "record dkong dkong-filename-here", it only generates a .inp and not a .wlf to go along with it...

[corey.chambers]

Ross, yeah, I agree, I hope no one will do that. If they do, I will catch them, it won't get passed me. I actually don't need to watch both a stream and an inp. I can see the stream for sure, and I just need to verify that the inp was created at the time of streaming to see that it is new, and that it works, and passes a simple test with the wlfviewer. It is not required for the WCR but it is certainly required for the DK Forum High Score List. And the only person that does that work right now is me, so not too much for everybody else, just an ironclad process for MAME submissions.

Phil, I have been thinking about that issue as well. I have yet to work with an inp from a newer version but I do have it ready, if all you get is an inp then that is all we can work with. I have not figured out how to record an inp with the newest version of MAME so I have not had the chance to try it out.