Should buttons with original roller switches be required?

[WCopeland]

In recent days, some members of the community have been accused of being "the real cheaters" for using buttons that do not include an original Nintendo roller microswitch.

For the record, contrary to what has been implied, my use of a Groovy Game Gear jump button has never been a secret. I have never concealed in any of my cab verifications that I've used this button. If anyone has asked what button I use, I've always been transparent about it.

I wanted to get the community's pulse on whether original buttons + original microswitches should be required for DKF submissions.

If the vote is "Yes", I'll ask Jeremy to strip all my scores from DKF. The poll is completely anonymous, and will be closed after 14 days.

Thanks all!

[lakeman421]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AAUPQHQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Here is what I used for my last two scores.  My 1.206 was used with a button from Mike's Arcade, but the microswitch was the one without the roller.  My 1.19 I believe would be my highest score on all original hardware if any actions needed to be taken.

[Kewydee_17]

I believe the criteria for DK record attempts should be much tighter than it is currently

New rules:

1 - All credits should be started with a genuine US 1981 25 cent coin, verified by the US mint

2 - You must wear clothes that you wore back in 1981 or source 1981 clothing. These will have to be carbon dated before the attempt

3 - Only electrical power allowed must be from power stations that existed in 1981

4 - Recordings of attempts must be on 1981 or earlier video hardware

5 - You must have a fully grown mullet hairstyle. Any other haircut is an auto DQ (No wigs)

6 - The recording venue must have existed in 1981. Newer buildings are not allowed

These rule additions will greatly enhance the reliability of DK record attempts. And stop all the phoney submissions at a stroke. I hope you can all see the logic in this

 

[LMDAVE]

That amazon link button is the same one I replaced mine with also. The original button dry-rotted and broke.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AAUPQHQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Here is what I used for my last two scores.  My 1.206 was used with a button from Mike's Arcade, but the microswitch was the one without the roller.  My 1.19 I believe would be my highest score on all original hardware if any actions needed to be taken.

[Barra]

lol

[jasonec]

It's a switch....who cares?  What actually matters is "when" you press it ;-)

[TheSunshineFund]

Looks like the cutoff date for voting can be moved up.

[sprinter461]

I registered solely so I could vote NO.

I've been going to the arcades since 1982. You might have heard of my local arcade, Twin Galaxies in Ottumwa Iowa.
For as long as I can recall...buttons and sticks have broken and been replaced. Many times with non original hardware.

As time goes on, it's going to become harder and harder to source OEM parts for various machines. Adapt and move on.

Think of modern eSports. Mouse, keyboards, controllers... players have a choice. A LOT of choices. Sometimes choice is dictated by sponsors at the pro level etc. My personal opinion is as long as the board is 100% correct. Good to go. Power supply, buttons, monitors... none of that should matter. It should be player preference.

My 2 cents.

While I am here...

Congrats to Robbie and Wes for handling the accusations like real champions. This hobby needs more players like you guys, as an example for others to look up to.

- Tim McVey -

[BillyGaines]

This is clearly cheating and the Snake will get you for it!    ....  I'm gonna replace my button with one of these and I'll get over a million with no practice required. 

[YesAffinity]

FYI, there's replacement switches with a roller available:

https://www.ebay.com/i/282313507360?chn=ps

That's just one potential source, can probably be found for less expensive with a little google fu.  Part number is: V3L-111-D8

I found this out because one of these was on the jump button in my red DK and i recently swapped it out for an original switch, of which I grabbed (3) when someone was selling some on KLOV.  For me, I prefer originality wherever possible.  BUT in terms of acceptability, as long as its not a button providing some additional feature like autofire or something crazy, then I say no harm no foul.

The V3L-111-D8's are a noticeably higher actuation force than stock (noticeably "stiffer" feel).

On the flip side of the argument, however, we are pretty rigid about requiring a 4-way stick, so not sure how that should play into the consideration of a jump button.

[WCopeland]

we are pretty rigid about requiring a 4-way stick, so not sure how that should play into the consideration of a jump button.

With an 8way on an original PCB, you can steer barrels while climbing ladders. The 8way stick actually does influence the gameplay and give you an edge over the competition. MAME blocks these inputs.

[sprinter461]

Yeah I had heard that years ago... so any 4 way stick should be acceptable no?

[WCopeland]

Yeah I had heard that years ago... so any 4 way stick should be acceptable no?

In my opinion any stick with a 4way restrictor plate should be acceptable. Looking at the submission rules:

4-way controls are required.

This suggests if you wanted to use a Sanwa JLF stick with the plate set to restrict to 4way, it should be acceptable. In my opinion this is a positive thing because oftentimes players overseas, especially in Japan, only have access to candy cabs that have these Sanwa sticks installed.

[zallard1]

Voting no, because it is completely and utterly asinine to think that an arcade button without turbo or macro capabilities would give any kind of advantage or disadvantage. It is frankly a joke that this poll even needs to exist, because those accusations nothing more than a knee jerk reaction to Billy Mitchell's MAME generated Donkey Kong runs.

...if you wanted to use a Sanwa JLF stick with the plate set to restrict to 4way, it should be acceptable. In my opinion this is a positive thing because oftentimes players overseas, especially in Japan, only have access to candy cabs that have these Sanwa sticks installed.

I'm glad that this consideration is in effect, because banning standard arcade parts for an arcade run is one of the worst side-effects of the ultra-purist mentality (especially at TG), which ends up ultimately shunning tons of valuable competition for no good reason.

[serphintizer]

I have used both the bog-standard Mike's Arcade repro buttons (pretty close to the original, I would opine) and the GGG buttons (mentioned openly by Wes in time past Twitch streams). There are positives and negatives (subjective) to both; but ultimately, I really do believe it just comes down to personal preference here.

The Mike's Arcade repros:

1.) Seem pretty durable
2.) Has a softer/squishier feeling when activating it (easier on me physically)
3.) Has a longer activation point/travel distance (may be seen as a slight disadvantage by some, but can be adjusted, sooooo...)

The GGGs:

1.) Dung durability (switches seem to start failing within a few months...one started going bad and I had to hit the jump button like four times before it "warmed up"/responded )
2.) Has a much harder type feeling when activating it (bottoms out quite quickly, which hurts my fingers a bit over a full game)
3.) Has a shorter activation point/travel distance (may be seen as a slight advantage by some, but again, "originals" can be adjusted, sooooo...)


These are just a few observations I have noticed over time, but I am only speaking for myself here. If forced to choose one over the other, I would choose whatever I was more comfortable with; and I am not convinced either way at this point in time.

However, when it comes to MAME and keyboards (I should know ), I love me some super cheap rubber domes that take for ever to push down and can take a beating. I cannot stand mechanicals, scissor-switch/chiclet, or any other variant type keyboards. And this most likely puts me in the minority here, since the view would be that I am handicapping myself.

And another thing, until someone finds that locked away, virgin DK in the Indiana Jones hanger, or if you have found a way to stop entropy in its tracks, there ain't nobody (afaik) playing on a 100%, bone stock machine.

So if you really just want to get down to it, down to some brass tacks, as far as gameplay is concerned, you can throw a stinkin' ham sandwich on the control panel for a jump button, and any top player would still have the potential to snag the world record, imo.


More like a "bomb" out, knucklez.