Author Topic: Billy Mitchell's Direct Feed Recordings are MAME Generated  (Read 367576 times)

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Offline maximumsteve

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Re: Billy Mitchell's Direct Feed Recordings are MAME Generated
« Reply #120 on: February 11, 2018, 03:46:02 pm »
This is from my friend and colleague Robert Childs regarding the dispute. There is a lot here, so please be patient with yourself, and when you have time read with a open mind....

Billy Mitchell Donkey Kong Dispute my tech analysis

NORMALLY I do not get involved in disputes and arguments especially one as silly as this, however, as a witness to the event and technician who performed the game/equipment set-up for Billy Mitchell, I can attest Billy did not submit his record scores playing on MAME. It all boils down to this. When you hook up a 1980s era Donkey Kong board to a 2000s era RGB to NTSC converter board and then run it to a 1970s technology VCR for recording God only knows what it will do to the signal. Billy is my childhood friend, however, I am not writing this post because Billy is my friend but rather it is the truth.
The following is a LAYMAN’S explanation of the hook-up used for each of Billy Mitchell’s scores
Also below is posted a TECHNICAL explanation for those who are so inclined.
In the comparison between Weibe’s video and Billy’s in the side by side, the differences are apparent. The purpose here is to explain the difference. Those unfamiliar with the explained method of hook-up to record have raised an unnecessary firestorm of innuendo and accusation. Said firestorm could easily have been avoided if Billy Mitchell had first been asked instead of first being accused. This explanation and the more detailed TECHNICAL explanation below will answer the claims of those unfamiliar in this method of recording.
In Wiebe’s video, he used a camera on a tripod angled slightly behind him. This showed on the recording the screen as Weibe actually saw it. This is the common way of filming a score submission.
In Billy’s video recording, he did not use MAME. Billy used a RGB to NTSC Video Converter Board to record his footage. I still have the original receipt for this board which I can post if asked . He paid $200 for the board.
The way the video converter board works is that it TRANSLATES the entirety of the RGB type signal, which is what originates from the DK video game board, into NTSC when that signal is run through the converter. The NTSC signal is what VCRs and TVs of all types used back in the day. The entire reason Billy used a Video Converter was for direct feed after MY expensive camera was once destroyed when it was knocked over. Cameras were nearly $1000 in those days versus a safely out-of-the-way $200 video converter board.
It is important to understand that the visual Billy saw on his DK monitor is EXACTLY the same type RGB display that Weibe saw on his monitor (and ultimately was recorded by his camera).The converted video offers NO advantage to the player as the player never sees it during gameplay. The converter signal is sent solely to the VCR.
The Converter hook-up works like this:
The video converter is connected directly to the video output of the DK inverter board. The inverter receives the video from the DK board itself NOT the Sanyo monitor that the player sees from his view. The converter board does its job translating RGB to NTSC which goes to the VCR and is recorded as the finalized media. There is NO possibility of an advantage to the player using this method of recording.
The TRANSLATION of RGB to NTSC changes the video’s appearance and characteristics of the signal (as in a CGA monitor) to a “more MAME looking signal output”. However, if you want to make the argument this recorded video signal APPEARS more MAME looking, maybe it does. Looking MAME is not MAME, nor a violation that even approaches “cheating”.
Why would any player, nearly eight years ago, desire to put a MAME computer in the back of a Nintendo cabinet and connect the output to a Sanyo monitor? No one playing MAME had approached the 1 million mark at that time. The accusation of using MAME doesn’t make sense. It would be too much work. Anyone who could reach 1 Million on MAME could undoubtedly reach MORE on an arcade machine. The alleged deception does not make sense. The risk would not present enough gain over the possibility of being discovered.

Even if …
multiple eyewitness testimony is discounted (which it should not be),
Even if …
TG would dismiss the video footage that was in their possession which is TG’s responsibility to produce since they initially certified the record (if they dismiss THIS record because they can’t “find the tape” then how many thousands of other records/scores MUST they AUTOMATICALLY dismiss upon any challenge?). TG has a responsibility to honor tapes that were once in their custody, regardless of ownership changes, especially if they cannot “find” a tape that was in their charge to protect in the “archives”,
Even if …
the prescribed method of verification at that time was put aside (which would be “changing the rules after the acceptance of proof”),
THE FACT REMAINS that the hook-up described here produces these results and that alone is enough to prove, along with Billy’s ability in other high scores, that cheating was not involved.
$5000 CHALLENGE
If ANYONE can disprove what I have stated within this explanation, not in opinion, but in ACTUAL proof I will donate $5000 in their name to the charity of their choice . We also will test/prove any discrepancies in opinion in my shop on video. A contract will be provided if this option is sought.
Regards
Robert Childs

TECHNICAL EXPLANATION

A TG member has made an accusation that Billy Mitchell used MAME instead of a legitimate and original Donkey Kong board. He assumed that MAME was used based on comparisons of three sources that were not equal. That TG member used Gleed’s direct video feed recorded at 60fps, and used his own camera phone that recorded at 60fps, and compared it to Billy’s direct feed video tape (30fps, non TBC (please read for more information http://www.digitalfaq.com/…/video-r…/2251-tbc-time-base.html)), which was encoded to digital format, to make an assumption that cheating was involved since Billy’s video does not behave as his standard. That TG member wrongly concludes that due to the rotation of the image and its alignment to the left instead of the right, that MAME must have been used. However his argument is weak for he either leaves out nor considers that the Sanyo monitor used is known to have capacitor problems in the vertical circuit (namely c407 (10uF, 160v) which often causes a fold to the bottom half of a Horizontally mounted monitor.
Nor does he consider other plausible explanations such that the majority of these games from that era were notorious for image burn on the face of picture tubes and that most likely the picture tube was changed and the donor tube’s yoke was either installed 180 degrees the wrong way and the header connector was flipped to correct the orientation, or the yoke may not have been wedged in correctly and the picture was off center, or that the yoke was that of the donor monitor and was close enough to work with that monitor chassis. (Please read http://www.junknet.net/tube-swap-diy-part1)
That TG member made a comparison to his own 60 fps video shot with a high definition Samsung S8 to Gleed’s direct feed captured at 60 fps (which is assumed to be a direct digital recording in mp4), to a direct DK board to video recorded on a 30 fps VHS tape which was then encoded into an unknown video format. That TG member makes no mention of the technology that is used to convert digital TTL RGB to analog low level composite, nor does he mention the inferior quality and losses of a VHS recording and how that might be problematic to his comparison.
The main issue here to consider is that TG member compares video recorded in high definition to a video that was converted from TTL RGB to low level composite video. Let’s explain the evidence and why it’s important to keep Billy’s direct feed and type of recorded media in mind.
Billy’s direct feed was born out of a necessity to avoid people tripping over a camera on a tripod pointed at the screen and I was also tired of hearing “Rob watch the camera”. In the last few years cameras have become cheaper and more lightweight, but the situation a dozen or so years ago was not the same. Direct feed was a viable option. It's a very simple process to wire and does not take much skill. To wire a DK machine to an external display you would use an RGB to composite signal converter.

In the very early 2000s, Two Bit Score (a company that sold coin op video accessories), sold such a device. It cost $199.00. This was a simple device where you took standard positive digital TTL RGB video signal and a composite negative sync from a standard 15.7 kHz video game and converted them to a composite low level analog video signal that a TV or VCR could display. The quality of this reproduction while acceptable, never truly reproduced the original (please read this link to see note of this known issue. http://www.jrok.com/hardware/RGB-FAQ.html).

To make a connection to this RGB adapter from a Classic Nintendo coin op you needed to invert the TTL output from the negative signal to a positive signal. Please pay attention to the TTL acronym. TTL means Transistor-Transistor Logic (current driven switching), which was the architecture of integrated circuits of the time (1980’s). It was inefficient, slow, and bulky. The negative signal that was generated from the board was fed into a buffer transistor and then to a driver transistor that drove the individual R, G, or B guns on the neck board of the monitor (Please search out and see schematic online as I don’t have time to post I have a family to get back to today).

In order to successfully output the correct colors to an RGB to composite signal converter, you need to invert the colors. Billy’s machine utilized Nintendo’s built in video inverter board, mounted stock above the horizontal flyback transformer, to do that. Normally this board is wired in “pass though” by default. With the movement of the output wire to this board to the inverted pin header, the games image displayed white as black and vice versa. This board is a very simple device composed of a couple potentiometers, a few resistors, a couple capacitors, some diodes for the power supply, and some 2N3904 NPN transistors. In short, the video was inverted from one state to its opposite state with two transistors: one for buffering, the other for inversion. Just by simply using this board you introduced some delay due to the slow switching nature of transistors. Now I bring this information to you for this reason: it is possible to invert the video signal by either rewriting the color PROMs on a stock board or by utilizing a CMOS 74HC IC with a few resistors and get far superior results. For those who do not know CMOS (Complementary Metal Oxide Semiconductor) is much faster than TTL. Since it is possible to invert the original DKs by other means, which scheme did Gleed use for his direct feed is not stated nor is it considered.
The adapter, used to make the video (from Two Bit Score), had the IC’s number scratched off, so I can’t give you exact information on its construction. This company was notorious for removing identifying information from their products to prevent people from copying them. However a quick google search will produce a popular IC, AD775, which is probably what their board was built on (Please see data sheet for more information-http://www.analog.com/…/technical-doc…/data-sheets/AD725.pdf).

Here is the important part. The simple explanation is that by inserting an RGB signal into this device you introduce loss, delay and latency. This is a by-product of the AD775 process. If you take a look at the IC’s block diagram you’ll see the many processes that are utilized in order to convert the signal to a low level video signal.

The simplest explanations of the AD725 conversion process are as follows. If you simply follow each signal line in the function block diagram(get online) you will see that each RGB color signal is fixed to an equal level, inserted into an RGB (lumence matrix) to YUV (basically YCbCr colors), encoding matrix. From there the Y signal is put in to a 3 pole low pass pre-filter and a composite sync is added, the U and V signals are put to a 4 pole low pass filter to remove the harmonics of the switching modulation and clamped down to a fixed level and then color burst vectors are added to the U and V signals. The U and V signals are used to modulate a pair of quadrature clocks (sine and cosine) at one-fourth the reference frequency input 3.579 545 MHz for NTSC. In order to be time-aligned with the filtered chrominance signal path, the luma signal must be delayed before it is output. The AD725 uses a sampled delay line to achieve this delay.
A layman explanation of the inner works of the AD725 IC would simply be: Signals are inserted, balanced, inverted, and filtered (where noise is removed). In the case of the Y signal it is sampled and delayed in order to synchronize colors then again filter. In the case of U and V signal, the combined signals are summed and then again filtered. The entire Y U and V signal is then summed to produce the single composite output.

SUMMARY
To surmise what the converter board does in its simplest form: You put in a signal, you balance the signals, you invert them, you filter them, you delay, you filter them again, you add timing signals, and you sum them again. This entire process distorts and adulterates the original input thus no comparison can be made by recording the original RGB signal at 60fps and then comparing that to that same signal that had been converted with the AD725 and then recorded to a VCR (which has 3 MHz of video bandwidth and horizontal resolution which is 240 lines per picture height).
Simple put: THE INFORMATION IS JUST NOT THERE! You are comparing two unequal sources!

That concludes both the Layman and Technical explanation. Please take time to examine the intricacy and accuracy. I have a DK machine along with a two-bit score converter board,and VCR if you would like to see Billy play another game on this setup and see the results this can be arranged in my store in Fort Lauderdale .
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/2251-tbc-time-base.html

Thanks for Reading
Robert Childs
Arcade Game Sales
Fort Lauderdale, Florida
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bh

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Re: Billy Mitchell's Direct Feed Recordings are MAME Generated
« Reply #121 on: February 11, 2018, 03:57:47 pm »
Quote from:  maximumsteve
The TRANSLATION of RGB to NTSC changes the video’s appearance and characteristics of the signal (as in a CGA monitor) to a “more MAME looking signal output”.

This process cannot plausibly change the rendering order to match MAME identically.

Offline ChrisP

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Re: Billy Mitchell's Direct Feed Recordings are MAME Generated
« Reply #122 on: February 11, 2018, 04:31:41 pm »
I have a DK machine along with a two-bit score converter board,and VCR if you would like to see Billy play another game on this setup and see the results this can be arranged in my store in Fort Lauderdale .

If you are still in possession of the original setup, then you have a golden opportunity to settle this (and with no technical explanation necessary).

I would strongly suggest that you do a quick recording of gameplay and upload it to YouTube. If the video shows the MAME-like transitions, then you'll go a long way toward vindicating Billy.
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Offline Mary McManus

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Re: Billy Mitchell's Direct Feed Recordings are MAME Generated
« Reply #123 on: February 11, 2018, 05:38:18 pm »
What model of decoder board was used, what make an model was the secondary TV, the alternate signal was sent to and......>chuckel< what brand make and model .... "1970's" ......era VCR were you using in the 21st century  to record such important game play. I will go on a treasure hunt.
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Offline homerwannabee

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Re: Billy Mitchell's Direct Feed Recordings are MAME Generated
« Reply #124 on: February 11, 2018, 05:53:32 pm »
Except Robert Childs has a video where he takes out a Donkey Kong Junior board, and put in a Donkey Kong Junior board.  He took out the audio, and put opera music because the original audio was super incriminating.


Tell me, how on earth is this person credible after doing something like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvJEaAYSp9k
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Offline tilt

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Re: Billy Mitchell's Direct Feed Recordings are MAME Generated
« Reply #125 on: February 11, 2018, 07:10:11 pm »
Nice write up, but it equates to nothing.  That magic AD725 is an analog signal conversion chip, so no matter how much latency, loss, and color deviations from the original signal, frames aren't going to magically begin to drop out and float into the ozone.  Even when Gleed used a VCR to capture the video at 30 fps, the same exact results were seen.  No amount of fancy jargon will distract from the fact that the any amount of signal degrading that happens from the filters in the AD725 will not result in frames completely disappearing.  And it certainly won't cause the source video to starting looking like MAME for no particular reason.  If it turns out there was a digital conversion process here (which would contradict this released statement), sure we can discuss this kind of loss.  Otherwise, you would never see this happen.

For those who are interested, have a look at this extensive datasheet that includes helpful block diagrams for how this thing works: http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD725.pdf
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 07:17:27 pm by tilt »
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Offline maxxcat2018

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Re: Billy Mitchell's Direct Feed Recordings are MAME Generated
« Reply #126 on: February 11, 2018, 07:17:25 pm »
Nice write up, but it equates to nothing.  That magic AD725 is an analog signal conversion chip, so no matter how much latency, loss, and color deviations from the original signal, frames aren't going to magically begin to drop out and float into the ozone.  Even when Gleed used a VCR to capture the video at 30 fps, the same exact results were seen.  No amount of fancy jargon will distract from the fact that the any amount of signal degrading that happens from the filters in the AD725 will not result in frames completely disappearing.  And it certainly won't cause the source video to starting looking like MAME for no particular reason.  If it turns out there was a digital conversion process here (which would contradict this statement), sure we can discuss this kind of loss.  Otherwise, you would never see this happen.

For those who are interested, have a look at this extensive datasheet that includes helpful block diagrams for how this thing works: http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD725.pdf

There was some sort of mod for on a chip NES clones using the AD725 if I'm not mistaken. I THINK it was one for allowing MMC5 games  to work. (castlevania 3, etc.) if it's not that one, it's enabling virtua racing to work on genesis on a chip clones. Either one.
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Offline colecomeister

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Re: Billy Mitchell's Direct Feed Recordings are MAME Generated
« Reply #127 on: February 11, 2018, 07:55:29 pm »
5000 bucks? There was some dude offering $10,000 to tie his Dragster record I recall.
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SHLONKY

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Re: Billy Mitchell's Direct Feed Recordings are MAME Generated
« Reply #128 on: February 11, 2018, 09:17:39 pm »
hi everyone, first post here so please bear with me! Ive spent 3 days trying to sign up at TG but the verification number i need to call isnt in service so luckily for you guys i found my way here! ....ill quit the chit chat and get straight to it!

@xelnia ...im not sure about here, but over at tg they seem to be lacking 1.062 tape footage...heres the last 10 mins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbRN549NYuU
Im no expert but i have edited videos constantly for over 20 years, and i have a few issues with this video. Firstly the lack of sound..the newest post passed on from camp billy (ill state im neither for or against i just love detective work) its stated a device was used created and sold by two bits...heres the device
https://web.archive.org/web/20160914172952/http://www.twobits.com:80/RGB/rgbman.html
from looking at it, it uses basic circuitry, and most likely uses this chip as the converter
https://4donline.ihs.com/images/VipMasterIC/IC/RAYT/RAYTS012/RAYTS012-1.pdf?hkey=EF798316E3902B6ED9A73243A3159BB0
this chip converts rgb to a digital rca signal and the two bits device INCLUDES sound. I will admit it needs wiring different to how originally intended (for jamma) but its no more difficult than wiring the rgb wires!
If your reading the chip manual please start at page 26 for the technical details.

going back to the video we can see its a vhs recording! supposedly captured via vcr, which im not sure is true. You see the game itself has a border made of pixels. usually you see this when recording on a pc in a window, or dare i say it....MAME.
We can assume due to the low bitrate of the video it was done in something crap like windows movie maker then uploaded to youtube, this conversion could of created the border....BUT, you can see that not only do the static lines exceed the top/bottom of the pixelated border, (1:00) but also both sides,meaning this is part of the original recording and the viewing area is windowed in both directions! (meaning the vcr is a secondary recording)
If you go 5 frames into 1:00 youl see the true viewable area recorded by the vcr.

other than that ive gone over the video at every static line and although there are some frame timing issues, nothing seems like a splice to me,but im no expert.

MAME:
there is a video on youtube that shows a viewing of steve weibes tape by a bunch of tg people, in it they discuss how easy it is to fake a run using software. i point this out as even though billy states he has no idea what mame is,his close friends do, though i donot know who exactly says it,maybe someone here can?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdTjaF1eEqo

the professionals:
billy states there are professionals on the case. Understanding how billy talks the word professional can be taken lightly. He stated he had 2 movie offers, then 1 turned out to be an independant documentary to follow KoK. So from following TG forum i think billys professionals are TG member christian pacman and the guy who wrote that very technical post! Wether this be known to them or not, i think they are his technical team hes praying on!
that brings me onto the "bomb" that was stated on the podcast billy appeared on....over at tg for a few pages they started losing their heads and conspiracising whos going to be blasted a cheat.....i think its deeper than that, and i think its possible the bomb will be "KoK 2" being all about how KoK was a setup. But then thats another conspiracy altogether! 

I had more info but its late and i just wanted to get this out there before i went to sleep! ill try and remember more if necessary. Iunderstand this post looks like im against billy but he has offered no defence, so i can only comment on whats been shown, which in his case is against him so far!

thank you :)


« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 06:27:02 am by SHLONKY »

Offline YesAffinity

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Re: Billy Mitchell's Direct Feed Recordings are MAME Generated
« Reply #129 on: February 11, 2018, 09:52:47 pm »
"Nor does he consider other plausible explanations such that the majority of these games from that era were notorious for image burn on the face of picture tubes and that most likely the picture tube was changed and the donor tube’s yoke was either installed 180 degrees the wrong way and the header connector was flipped to correct the orientation, or the yoke may not have been wedged in correctly and the picture was off center, or that the yoke was that of the donor monitor and was close enough to work with that monitor chassis."

Just want to point out that this piece of the potential explanations should be dismissed as it is upstream from the alleged direct feed that was going to a vcr and would have no bearing on a signal originating from the inverter board.  Also, the parts list for my setup is linked from page 1 of this thread, and I assume is also included on the tg dispute thread but either way is there for comparison.  In a nutshell, my signal is digitized at an external anchor bay vp 30, but up to that point is analog from the dk board to a mikes arcade inverter to a jrok v4.1 component output.

Would be great if a message could get back to Robert childs to requesting a 20 minute gameplay sample from the setup described and used for the recordings.  If the signal from the inverter board and two bit encoder (unfortunate name, or maybe accurate?  ;D) Are to blame for not replicating a true dk pcb video signal then it.doesnt matter if it's being recorded on a vcr or current gen hd capable camera phone at 60 fps.  Current gen 60 fps would obviously provide a clearer picture of the modified image.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 10:23:15 pm by YesAffinity »
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Offline maximumsteve

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Re: Billy Mitchell's Direct Feed Recordings are MAME Generated
« Reply #130 on: February 12, 2018, 03:37:37 am »
This is from Carlos Piniero, a SEGA Gameboard tech in the late 90's, early 2000's.....

 "I was a game board tech for Sega in the late 90s and early 2000s. I worked on board level repair of our gaming venue pinball machines to building the cabinet/controllers for our classic games. Working the classic games was ALWAYS tricky cause the pre-Jamma / Jamma boards always expected an exact original monitor. Donkey Kong was a vertical CGA output which the board was component tuned for the raster color monitor refresh rates. And these older Raster monitors were hard to find when the Internet was still growing in 1998. I can concur with the technical explanation that has been posted.
Compared to the old pc running mame to the hdmi RasPi new Mame output, the conversion technic would not work with explained setup cause of the video frequently outputs on a computer VGA port.
Robert's explanation is how it would have to be done with an original Donkey Kong board multi output."
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SHLONKY

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Re: Billy Mitchell's Direct Feed Recordings are MAME Generated
« Reply #131 on: February 12, 2018, 07:17:22 am »
ive posted technical info on the two bits recording device 2 posts up!
I also have more evidence to suggest the footage was recorded originally via a pc as opposed to a vcr! ill post that later on tonight once everythings collected.


This is from Carlos Piniero, a SEGA Gameboard tech in the late 90's, early 2000's.....

 "I was a game board tech for Sega in the late 90s and early 2000s. I worked on board level repair of our gaming venue pinball machines to building the cabinet/controllers for our classic games. Working the classic games was ALWAYS tricky cause the pre-Jamma / Jamma boards always expected an exact original monitor. Donkey Kong was a vertical CGA output which the board was component tuned for the raster color monitor refresh rates. And these older Raster monitors were hard to find when the Internet was still growing in 1998. I can concur with the technical explanation that has been posted.
Compared to the old pc running mame to the hdmi RasPi new Mame output, the conversion technic would not work with explained setup cause of the video frequently outputs on a computer VGA port.
Robert's explanation is how it would have to be done with an original Donkey Kong board multi output."

Offline YesAffinity

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Re: Billy Mitchell's Direct Feed Recordings are MAME Generated
« Reply #132 on: February 12, 2018, 08:06:19 am »
SHLONKY, thank you for your in-depth analysis.  If I can help in any way, recreating a composite direct feed capture on PC, and then recording it via VCR, which I believe is what your suggesting as to how the tapes were generated, let me know.  I agree that is another plausible possibility.

Also, if you would be so kind as to compare the Mike's arcade inverter board and JROK v4.1 to the stock inverter and two bits encoder, that would be a good comparison.  The MA inverter->JROK is what I have and can pull a direct feed from.  I also have a Wei Ya CV-04 encoder set up in a different (JAMMA) cab.

MA inverter: https://www.mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/store.pl?sku=NININVAMP

JROK v4.1: http://jrok.com/hardware/jrok_rgb_encoder_pinout_diagrams.html

wei ya CV-04 http://www.weiya.com.tw/products_detail.asp?le=english&fid=114&pid=202&tCatName=RGB%20TO%20VIDEO

I can send hi def pictures of any of these, if internet information isn't sufficient.

I could potentially marry up the CV-04 with the MA inverter if that combination would be a closer match to the alleged original setup.  That would take a bit more effort tho, so hoping that could be avoided, but if it gets us closer to or identical to the original inverter/two bits encoder combination, then I will undertake it.

I also concur with the statements that the alleged setup used for the Billy recordings is the path of least resistance, all things considered.  I voiced that earlier, not that I believe that belief has any bearing on the claim.  Just a simple impartial statement that yes, direct feed from a DK  cab via an inverter board to an NTSC encoder would be relatively easy compared to some form of mame device that has playback ability integrated into a nintendo cab and creating inverted and uninverted video simultaneously.  At a minimum, the MAME PC/playback integration is an added layer in addition to the alleged setup.  But again, Mike's arcade has also been offering the jamma-to-nintendo adapter and the nintendo wiring harness-to-edge connector adapter since well before these recordings were created. In fact, in this combination, you wouldn't need the stock inverter board, you could simply tap the RGBS lines on the JAMMA side of the built-in inverter on the Mike's board, and send that to the NTSC encoder.  BUT, you could also let it all go from the MA adapters through the stock inverter board as pass-through and tapping the de-inverted output from the stock inverter board, as well.  It's an added layer of complexity, yes, but not an impossibility.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 08:27:26 am by YesAffinity »
Matthew 21:22

DK Arcade PB (verified): 970,200 KS
DK Start PB (verified): 126,600
DK L1-1 PB (verified): 11,400
DK PB 1st Man: 622,000

Donkey Kong Direct Feed How-To - http://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=1413.0
^Now outdated, see instead: http://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=2471.0
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SHLONKY

  • Guest
Re: Billy Mitchell's Direct Feed Recordings are MAME Generated
« Reply #133 on: February 12, 2018, 08:39:35 am »
SHLONKY, thank you for your in-depth analysis.  If I can help in any way, recreating a composite direct feed capture on PC, and then recording it via VCR, which I believe is what your suggesting as to how the tapes were generated, let me know.  I agree that is another plausible possibility.

Hi, yes thats how it seems...the donkey kong game was captured on pc, then transferred to vhs!

I have more evidence to suggest this is true,and this comes in the DKjr board swap video.
If you freeze frame on 1:00, youl see the device im assuming used to capture.....which you can blatantly see is a pc! Next to the PC is a purple/blue box which looks like either a capture device, or some kind of hook up to the big screen you can spot behind the PC ...OR..a capture device used to accompany the camera billy states was 30 feet away...Which is possibly true, as you can see a white tripod in the video at 4:10 (you may need to find the original upload to spot it as this video linked is a bit blurred but i dont have my info/links in front of me atm)..however, the tripod seems as if nothing is attached to it so im assuming this was the camera that the person is holding in the video!

The cab itself doesnt seem to have the two bits device visible inside, and i dont see any split wires, but if anyone can confirm what the cables plugged in are then we can eliminate wether the two bits device is attacted to the cab or not!

ill post more later when i have more time
thank you :)


SHLONKY

  • Guest
Re: Billy Mitchell's Direct Feed Recordings are MAME Generated
« Reply #134 on: February 12, 2018, 11:39:02 am »
wei ya CV-04 http://www.weiya.com.tw/products_detail.asp?le=english&fid=114&pid=202&tCatName=RGB%20TO%20VIDEO

the cv-04 seems to be designed very similar to the two bits device, if you could supply a close up of the longest chip on the board i can compare it to the one in the twobits.

I think twobits discontinued the item in 2015.Its final price was $129, so id assume these could still be made today if you were to contact them. They now go under the name https://gameboardsusa.com/

in this video we do get to see a glimpse of the dkjr score after the record is set....but sadly its too blurred to read, ill try some filters out when i get chance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFLGF933tgc&t=10s
the time to freeze frame is 1:25
the pc is still in view, though the screen looks untouched from the earlier video that was supposedly recorded hours earlier.
(ive also confirmed that the "big screen" i mentioned in my earlier post is in fact a drinks machine)

This following video is supposedly recorded just before the one above, mr childs has "just heard the news"....However, youl notce the equiptment is packed away, where the above video the pc is still setup and billy is talking of completing both records already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvdrEgk2l6g
its possible in this video the pc can be identified as a dell laptop, but its hard to tell. (im yet to find the model but they released a fat rounded edge one that was a metallic blue finish that kind of matches whats on the table in this video).

Either way, at least 1 of the 3 videos from mr childs is recorded out of timeline to the rest! there is no doubt about that!