Is 1,218,000 on DK the most difficult to beat beatable real Arcade score?

[SanTe]

This is by far the hardest Arcade record to beat, and there is not a single arcade game that can hold a candle to that.

I disagree:

Crystal Castles     910,722     100.00%     Frank Seay     1988-03-17

I'm going to correct myself, as I remembered this one today at work:

Carnival     386,750     100.00%     Fred Pastore     2001-06-01

I'd put that one at #1, and Crystal Castles at a very close #2.  Both are technically beatable but near goddamned impossible to do so.  I'd probably put McAllister's 1.2M 5-man Robotron at #3, beatable but very very difficult and needing hundreds of attempts, if not a thousand or more, by highly skilled Robotron players, just like the Crystal Castles score.  Probably the same for Carnival, although there are far fewer known experts on that one.

OK, as far as the argument about McCallisters 1.2 million Robotron score.  I have my doubts.  Here are my reasons why.

1)  The game in Arcade is easier than MAME.

No it isn't.  It used to be true that MAME played harder than Arcade, because there were issues with the Williams CPU and blitter video processing code.  This problem was tracked down and squashed a few years ago.  If you are using a relatively recent version of MAME (0.148 or newer) it essentially plays identical to Arcade, especially if you use PS/2 controller inputs to eliminate the very slight lag that exists with USB inputs.

3) I don't think McCallister's playing this game, day in, and day out either on arcade.  So I think McCallister can probably do much better on this game because of that.

Johnny played everyday for a couple of months to pull off that score.  Make no mistake, he worked hard for it, and even he has told me that he doesn't think he can beat it.  Things change though.

i saw this and thought to chime in.   The crystal castles is definitely one of the hardest.  It is almost a perfect game from level 3 on to get the extra 10 K.

Donn Nauert's   cheyenne and crossbow scores are up there.

The 80 million on zookeeper.

Abners Jr pac score.

tutankham  996 000 on 3 plus one and one flash

star wars 6 shields david palmer 

720  score   lots of knowledge lost on that game

Everything is relative to effort expended.  If a game never gets played it will never get beat but  the skill level needed for those listed above is amazing.

Good ones, Dwayne.  The 720 score, though, may not be real, or at least it looks problematic.  There is a certified 720 nut I've met who insisted to me that it isn't possible on the documented settings.  Read his analysis here.

I also remembered this one today before I read your post:

Battlezone     23,000,000     100.00%     David Palmer     1985-08-30

A couple of months earlier he did 10M on his first life at the TG Video Game Masters Tournament and killed it off because there were other games he wanted to play.

I might be inclined to throw Robert Mruczek's 300M Star Wars marathon on the list.  Only one person has ever come close, but the guy played six hours longer than Robert and still came up more than 16M short.  I'd say that makes Robert's score extremely difficult to beat.  With a max of six shields and only seconds between levels you have no time for naps and no real time for bathroom breaks.  You'd have to get real creative on that, in addition to maintaining hand/eye coordination and reflexes on a very fast game for over two days straight.  At least with a Robotron marathon you can build up 200+ lives and take a short nap.

I'd have to say Johnny (The Machine) Macs 3.3M WR on Asteroids Deluxe is mind bogglingly insane. I've never heard of ANYONE who could flip an Asteroids Deluxe even BITD...

Yeah, another good one.  I too have never seen/heard any evidence of anyone else rolling Asteroids Deluxe.

Shock Troopers...  But then again, maybe better patterns for optimizing the clock in each stage are possible, it's why I've always tried to get people to play it, to get a fresh perspective from someone else, but nobody is interested in taking me up on that. So yes, that 32.7 million score will probably stand unless I get motivated enough to try to break it.

Welcome to my world.

P.S.  1,099,900 on Wild Western is literally impossible since the game maxes out at 999,900, which I proved, but TG doesn't give a shit to pull this previously pulled fake score that they inadvertently reinstated a few years ago during a change in ownership, despite my bringing it to their attention more than once.

P.P.S.  My best Arabian score is higher than that.   

[maximumsteve]

Actually 2 player Mario Bros. Hardest difficulty, getting 1 million points. Almost impossible.

[homerwannabee]

As far as least likely to be beaten I think it's video games where the person who set the record overpaid the price for the record by an insane amount.

That's why Todd Rogers 105 million score on Journey Escape for the Atari 2600 is the score I considered least likely to ever be broken.  No one is going to spend over 85+ hours to get a record on Journey Escape.  It's not even in the Atari 2600 top 50 games list to be honest.

[homerwannabee]

The truth I think this thread points out is that a wide variety of scores from different games are considered the most difficult score to beat.  I stick by my Donkey Kong statement just because it's the most competitive, and the most competitive game tends to be the game with the most difficult score to beat.

[WCopeland]

That's why Todd Rogers 105 million score on Journey Escape for the Atari 2600 is the score I considered least likely to ever be broken. 

Given Todd's history with high scores, one has to wonder if this was another "prototype cartridge" or another "coffee stain".

[TheSunshineFund]

Excellent call on Fred Pastore's Carnival, Chris.  I totally forgot about that one.  Insane.

[dwayne]

For 5 man scores you have to play for days and days and work backwards from 10 men back to 5 so you are used to playing higher levels and everything is still in your memory.  John had a period of free time and motivation to play as many marathons he could fit in.   The robotron score could be beaten by abner if he actually had the time and a machine.   When he got that 900k score  he was on level 35 with 2 men left which is the 2 mikey's.   


When i talked to John he had broke a million but didnt tape it then in the short run continuing to play he recorded the 1.2.  And what i remember he had a few perfect brains to boost his final score.  I don't know what the level was but i think he did it in under 35 levels.

for joust and the other five man deal you have to have that happy medium of knowing what to expect when you get there and then having the experience to play through it on one man.


No one has spent anywhere near the time John did on a robotron.  Not that means it will be beat but i think if abner had the chance he would break the million for sure and possibly the wr.   

Carnival fred is amazing he doesnt miss a shot.  That one will probably not be broken by anyone not named fred.   

As far as 720 goes  I talked with Jeff Peters about that 720 score and it is legit.  but all the problems with rom versions controls and technics to score is an open ended problem.   No one was anywhere as critical then as we are today.  It was serious but still more casual then you could stand.  When Jeff and the amusements players association where in control of tg they cleaned up the contemporary scores  to the best of their ability.     

I used to play with the 2 continues at the end to point press.  I thought was one of the standards to get the highest score.  I have to ask jeff about that again.  Your friends 720 page had alot of info not thought about or considered, but knowing the times and it was supposed to be set at a guinness event that was not under walters supervision but steve and jeff.   The guys from socal would have called bullshit  if it never happened.

There where a number of games greg gibson slaughtered and people thought his score were bogus but they were not.  I talked to Donn Nauert about that in the past 7 years when i interviewed him.   Same with jim hernadez  he was a really great player that came out in the later 80's to put up scores when there really was no tg and then electronic gaming monthly took over but not so much concerned with scores just the concept of a team.

As far as sinstar i think that one was with strictly 30k a free man and not the multiplier.  And When i talked to Chris i think he got that score at the game show when it was introduced in new Orleans.  So it could be a totally different romset or was set easier. But walter was there is that is probably how that one got in the list of scores.

[homerwannabee]

I think it's great that some of these games being mentioned are outside of the super competitive games.  Hopefully it gets people to play some of these games. It got me to play Carnival a couple of times. 

[Barra]

The wealth of information online and elsewhere about DK certainly brings the difficulty down a notch or two. The huge player base gives some relativity as to how difficult it is as well and so may seem the hardest, but it's hard to compare to a game like carnival where there is one person so far and above the rest.

On that subject, how the hell do I play carnival? Damn birds lol. Seems like a fun game if you knew  what's going on.

[gstrain]

There are also quite a few GAMEST records by Japanese players that are pretty freaking mind blowing and would be extremely difficulty to beat that haven't been mentioned here.

[BBH]

As far as sinstar i think that one was with strictly 30k a free man and not the multiplier.  And When i talked to Chris i think he got that score at the game show when it was introduced in new Orleans.  So it could be a totally different romset or was set easier. But walter was there is that is probably how that one got in the list of scores.

Yeah I don't believe that 761k was on the default settings at all.

468k though? Yeah, I can see that being possible. My best score on defaults is 397k and I'm pretty sure I lost my last two lives back-to-back. But yes, there is definitely a problem with locations that changed the game to lower difficulty levels or more extra lives because of how difficult it is, which makes it difficult to verify if the scores are legit. Ground Kontrol here briefly rotated in a Sinistar cab that was clearly set to an easier difficulty, I noticed the warriors were a lot more docile and let me get away with a lot of stuff before they fired. I actually broke 500k on that cab but I'm like 99.9% sure the settings were not correct, hahaha.

And then there's the 255 lives glitch, which I did manage to pull off once just for funsies when Ken House was borrowing a cabinet of it for BOTA 2012. Got it past a million before I killed it off. Man, Sinistar is a messy game for scores...

[serphintizer]

I believe that the Donkey Kong world record is THEE gold standard when it comes to video game world records...period.

Here are some reasons why:

1. The sheer difficulty of the game right off the bat (could be Game Over in the very first minute! ).

2. The famous beyond your control RNG that can steal all of your lives on one riviot board (mostly due to lack of skill )...100 points shy of beating the world record (Lakeman lits it).

3. Enduring 3+ hours of some of the most intense mental toughness known to man.

4. The hand-eye coordination mixed in with the on the fly decision making connected to the RNG can get pretty rough.

5. The size of the player pool and world-class competitiveness on this game is in a category by itself.

6. I am confident that the best Donkey Kong players could go out and obliterate some of these other world records that people say are harder to beat.

7. Who has not heard of Donkey Kong?!

I am sure I left out some important points that would further vindicate my belief...but whatever...I am not getting graded on this .

Please—show me a video game world record (not some obscure, unrealistic piece of garbage where only a select few play it while working in Roswell) that is harder to beat than the Donkey Kong world record.

If you can find a legitimate contender, I will retire from playing Donkey Kong and go play that...

Actually, forget about this post...

I forgot about TUGBOAT .

[WCopeland]

I have to agree with Serphy that some of the scores mentioned in previous posts are pretty dubious when compared to going for 1.2m on DK. I respectfully disagree with 5.4m on MB being tougher than a DK 1.2m. It's like apples and oranges, as MB has no point pressing, no kill screen, and relatively manageable randomness.

Hank, who has always been my favorite player, once said that very few people truly realize what playing at 1.15+ pace on DK is like, regardless of their arcade background. 1.15 is hard enough, but the sad truth is it's only the minimal foundation for what's required to get 1.2m. When Robbie and I played DK on marathon settings in Banning, I remember a well-known Joust player making some comments in the chat about how we were exhausted after such a short marathon. This totally ignores the fact that DK requires intense and active decision making for virtually every moment of play whereas 99% of arcade games that people marathon don't have this aspect (and simultaneously award infinite or hundreds of extra lives).

I think one thing that can be taken away is there are many different kinds of difficulty when it comes to playing arcade games. Decision making, problem solving, hand-eye coordination, pattern recognition, multitasking, mental endurance, and physical endurance are just some of these traits. Different games test these traits in different ways and to different degrees, so it's tough to compare "difficulty" between many games because they're just different beasts altogether.

[homerwannabee]

When Robbie and I played DK on marathon settings in Banning, I remember a well-known Joust player making some comments in the chat about how we were exhausted after such a short marathon. This totally ignores the fact that DK requires intense and active decision making for virtually every moment of play whereas 99% of arcade games that people marathon don't have this aspect (and simultaneously award infinite or hundreds of extra lives).

I think I am going to have to disagree with this.  Just running the boards is vastly different than high level point pressing.  If you are going for highest score just running the boards there are places you can take a break.  The barrel boards for instance you can leave Mario up on the top a good 40 seconds, and mentally check out.  Since this board is every other board after level 5, there are many opportunities to take a mini break.  Plus there is the mindless point pressing of the rivet boards as well that can last a good half minute.

Yes, you are right that 1.2 million is tougher than 5.4 million on Mario Bros., but to be fair I do think running the boards on Mario Bros. is harder than running the boards in Donkey Kong.  I don't think there is a place to rest except the bonus level, and even there you are sacrificing a lot of points to do so.

To pimp my favorite game DK3, one thing I do like about the game is there is no respite, and definitely no hiding spot.   Basically to paraphrase the guy in Taken, if you try to take a break Donkey Kong will look for you, will find you, and will kill you.  While I don't think the Donkey Kong 3 record is on the same level as Donkey Kong, I do think it's a hard game none the less.

[anningmay]

Break 600k on Jr. Pac-Man.

Then, realize that the WR is 3.3M and that no one has ever hit the KS officially.

First things first: break 600k. Consider the gauntlet thrown. It would be nice to have some competition.

See you in a few years...