Accepting a 4-man score in runs played on 6+1 settings?

[stella_blue]

It should not be accepted, and I would fight tooth and nail to keep such a score off the board.

Let's say there's a 6+1 track, and I decide I want to compete on that track. I adjust my dips accordingly. The game is psychologically different for the first four guys than it would be on standard settings. You are going to play differently - period. Pace deflation could be completely eliminated.

The psychological factor is an excellent point.  The 6+1 setting essentially allows a player to compete simultaneously on 2 tracks.  One could employ an uber-aggressive style for the first 4 lives.  If the wheels come off beyond that point, no problem.  Revert to Plan B and submit for the 3+1 variation.  Not good.  The player should be required to declare intent up front.  The 3+1 setting accomplishes that goal, simply and effectively.

[anningmay]

It should not be accepted, and I would fight tooth and nail to keep such a score off the board.

Let's say there's a 6+1 track, and I decide I want to compete on that track. I adjust my dips accordingly. The game is psychologically different for the first four guys than it would be on standard settings. You are going to play differently - period. Pace deflation could be completely eliminated.

The psychological factor is an excellent point.  The 6+1 setting essentially allows a player to compete simultaneously on 2 tracks.  One could employ an uber-aggressive style for the first 4 lives.  If the wheels come off beyond that point, no problem.  Revert to Plan B and submit for the 3+1 variation.  Not good.  The player should be required to declare intent up front.  The 3+1 setting accomplishes that goal, simply and effectively.

I disagree, naturally. Again, one person's psychological hangups are another's strength.

Let me ask a (rather obvious) question: If playing 3+1 gives someone such a huge advantage, why aren't more people playing that way? Nothing is stopping you.

The idea that having 3 fewer lives gives the player an advantage is complete nonsense. Are you guys serious here?

If you truly believe that playing 3+1 gives such a huge advantage on a 6+1 track, demonstrate it. Blow us all away!

George is right. Four lives is four lives. I would suggest that if you play different on life #4 than you do on life #1, you are playing sub-optimally, and you clearly have a flaw in your gameplay that needs to be addressed.

[homerwannabee]

four men is four men

Spoken like a true armchair expert. Have you ever been halfway through the game at 1.1m pace? 1m pace? 950k pace? I suppose it's hard to conceptualize the argument against it if you've never been there first-hand.

So going by that logic then me saying it doesn't matter if it's 3+1 or 6+1 on Donkey Kong Junior holds more water since I have actually had a 1.3 million point game.  No, my argument for Donkey Kong Junior or Donkey Kong is just as valid or invalid. 

[homerwannabee]

I'll end with this.  Although, I think in my opinion that first four on 6+1 should count it's not the end of the world if the community thinks it should be 3+1 only.  It's a minor hoop to jump through.  Compared how Twin Galaxies was so stringent on the Donkey Kong rules seven years ago this really is nothing in comparison.

[WCopeland]

You really didn't answer my question, George. In fact, you dodged my point completely.

Have you ever been halfway through a game at 1.1m pace?
Have you ever been halfway through a game at 1m pace?
Have you ever been halfway through a game at 950k pace?

Comparing Donkey Kong Junior pace to Donkey Kong pace is comparing apples to oranges. I'm not asking about your experience on a wildly different game; I'm asking about your DK experience.

I would suggest that if you play different on life #4 than you do on life #1, you are playing sub-optimally, and you clearly have a flaw in your gameplay that needs to be addressed.

Games without pace deflation are the exception, not the norm. In fact, this was one of the points of contention in the infamous "Robbie vs Wes" thread where all the armchair experts came out and said I had no chance of scoring 1.2m. Take a look:







Here is the calculated "average game" pace chart of all the games currently in the database:

[stella_blue]

I'll end with this.  Although, I think in my opinion that first four on 6+1 should count it's not the end of the world if the community thinks it should be 3+1 only.  It's a minor hoop to jump through.  Compared how Twin Galaxies was so stringent on the Donkey Kong rules seven years ago this really is nothing in comparison.

Ok, then allow me to end with this:

Players should not be allowed to redefine an event in order to get the outcome they want.

[ChrisP]

the infamous "Robbie vs Wes" thread where all the armchair experts came out and said I had no chance of scoring 1.2m.

I don't want to derail this great discussion, but Wes, you really need to go and read that thread again if you haven't lately.

Out of a total of 23 posts, only two expressed even a shred of anything less-than-effusive about your run or your gameplay at the time, and zero posts that cast any doubt whatsoever about your future potential. The rest of the thread was overwhelming praise, for both you and Robbie.

You talk about that "infamous" thread here and in your streams as if it were some sort of dogpile of disparagement and insults from "a bunch of armchair experts" until Ethan came along.

The first hint of doubt was Mitch, and the very worst of what he said is that "Robbie's the only one out of the two that has consistently shown that he has the long-term gameplay experience and pace to possibly maintain a 1.2m+ pace." Mitch quickly and politely recanted, and apologized to boot, for this (already politely and respectfully-stated) position.

The only other trace of a suggestion that the run was anything less than a stellar display of godlike ability was Mike G., who merely stated (accurately) that "1 screwing in Wes' game would make the gap between scores 10k+ rather than the slim 2k difference. Rare to get games with 0 screwings." You yourself recently coined a "law" stating that a world record run will almost never reach the end without at least two stolen lives, so this isn't a post that even you would argue with.

That's it. The rest of the thread is about how good you and Robbie are.

Seriously, read it again and be free of it. You're starting to sound like .

[Fly]

I'm with George R. and Dave on this one.

Psychological hangups or advantages are just that....Psychological.

Besides, I set the WR on Hyper Sports after being shoutboxed.  Curse, my ass. 

All nonsense.

Hec

[Barra]

The shoutbox thing is just a bit of fun. I don't think anyone ACTUALLY believes it. If they do, then and

[Josephjo]

The shoutbox thing is just a bit of fun. I don't think anyone ACTUALLY believes it. If they do, then and

[danman123456]

I'm with George R. and Dave on this one.

Psychological hangups or advantages are just that....Psychological.

Besides, I set the WR on Hyper Sports after being shoutboxed.  Curse, my ass. 

All nonsense.

Hec

I think this got completely lost in the wash.

1. If you are playing a game where you have 7 lives to beat it for score and another track has only 4 lives to beat it for score then in no situation ever should the 7 man attempt be allowed for a 4 man score. It's that simple.

It changes the dynamic of how you play this game. Trying to not lose that last life vs have 3 more lives to go and just "screw it if i die so what I'll submit a 6+1 score" is a HUGE difference mentally and would impact anyone doing so.

[Fly]

I'm with George R. and Dave on this one.

Psychological hangups or advantages are just that....Psychological.

Besides, I set the WR on Hyper Sports after being shoutboxed.  Curse, my ass. 

All nonsense.

Hec

I think this got completely lost in the wash.

1. If you are playing a game where you have 7 lives to beat it for score and another track has only 4 lives to beat it for score then in no situation ever should the 7 man attempt be allowed for a 4 man score. It's that simple.

It changes the dynamic of how you play this game. Trying to not lose that last life vs have 3 more lives to go and just "screw it if i die so what I'll submit a 6+1 score" is a HUGE difference mentally and would impact anyone doing so.

That's where you are wrong.  I totally understand.

Hec

[danman123456]

I'm with George R. and Dave on this one.

Psychological hangups or advantages are just that....Psychological.

Besides, I set the WR on Hyper Sports after being shoutboxed.  Curse, my ass. 

All nonsense.

Hec

I think this got completely lost in the wash.

1. If you are playing a game where you have 7 lives to beat it for score and another track has only 4 lives to beat it for score then in no situation ever should the 7 man attempt be allowed for a 4 man score. It's that simple.

It changes the dynamic of how you play this game. Trying to not lose that last life vs have 3 more lives to go and just "screw it if i die so what I'll submit a 6+1 score" is a HUGE difference mentally and would impact anyone doing so.

That's where you are wrong.  I totally understand.

Hec

Ha I thought I deleted the quote this was supposed to be a standalone comment sir not quoting your statement.

[f_symbols]

It appears this thread has derailed into an ego pit; all of the "logical" reasons why there shouldn't be any discussion here are being argued with statements akin to "i have the biggest dick" or "you're weak mentally". 

Step up to the plate Gentlemen; don't even begin to draw parallels between "your game" and "DK"

Get 1M on DK on 3+1 setttings (learn what it takes) then try and repeat it on 6+1 and tell me how much harder it isn't.   

I couldn't even fathom attempting to tell others how to play a game that they know "inside and out" or what the psychological effects of said game on their psyche should be... Just pure 

At this point it's essentially logic vs "I'm special-ness" so, anyone not relying on their "feelings" is gonna side with the obvious choice of the hypothetical 3+1


EXAMPLE OF THIS LOGIC:

Let's give the batter up to 6 strikes and see how well he swings on the first 3, then we can decide if we want it to be a 3 strike-out or a 6 strike-out, after the fact.  Maybe we can even decide to call him a weak hitter, if he doesnt swing when the count is 3-5 (that's the same logic as not playing at 100% all the time).

tl;dr  Let's be realists, If you have the "psychological prowess" to just be better than everyone else (at least 2 people do in this conversation), then just buck up and beat us on our default settings, since you're so superior anyway

[homerwannabee]

OK, just responding to Wes' question.  Farthest I have gone is a whole 1/58th of a game at 1.1 million pace.  And yes, from my limited knowledge a 1.1 million Donkey Kong is much harder than a 1.3 million pace.  As far as a 6+1 I do agree the person needs to state they are going for a 4 man score before they start the game if they want to go this route.  But I understand that still wouldn't be enough for you Wes and so we have to agree to disagree.

As far as Stella Blue quote,"Players should not be allowed to redefine an event in order to get the outcome they want."


I have no idea what you mean by this.  Sorry for being dense.