What Took You So Long?

[ChrisP]

It was pretty sweet to get pied! I didn't know that was going to happen.

"Crap" is indeed just a miscellaneous folder where I put stuff.

Steve's book is riddled with problems, but I would never call it crap. It was 1982 (a lot less was known about the game), the book was rushed, and he was just a kid. He did his best!

[stella_blue]

It was pretty sweet to get pied! I didn't know that was going to happen.

"Crap" is indeed just a miscellaneous folder where I put stuff.

Steve's book is riddled with problems, but I would never call it crap. It was 1982 (a lot less was known about the game), the book was rushed, and he was just a kid. He did his best!

Yeah, no disrespect to Steve intended.  I just had to smile when I saw the URL.

I haven't had a chance to read the book in its entirety, but I did glance at a few random pages here and there.  I came across one section where he attempts to list all of the possible ways to die.  I decided to put one of his claims to the test.  Sure enough, if you jump straight up while on the down elevator, you will not survive.  Level 15 of a game at 1.06m pace probably wasn't the best time to conduct that particular experiment.  But hey, science marches on, so what can you do?   

[VON]

I noticed something peculiar on the elevators today...

It seems that after jumping off either of the elevators, Jumpman needs a brief moment to refresh before he can jump or move again.  The delay is small, but significant in that it doesn't present itself anywhere else in the game. 

The cause of this lag may have something to do with Jumpman falling further during elevator disembarking than what is common with normal jumping, though the lag will present itself no matter how straight across an elevator is disembarked, and does not present itself when boarding elevators.  In other words, the only place in the game this lag can be seen is on one of the eight potential elevator disembarking platforms.  You might think the lag is only seen here because there are not opportunities to fall any significant distance on the other levels, but as I said, the lag doesn't occur when boarding elevators, only after jumping off them.  The only way to circumvent the elevator disembarking lag is to walk off the elevators. 

Weird.

[LMDAVE]

I noticed something peculiar on the elevators today...

It seems that after jumping off either of the elevators, Jumpman needs a brief moment to refresh before he can jump or move again.  The delay is small, but significant in that it doesn't present itself anywhere else in the game. 

The cause of this lag may have something to do with Jumpman falling further during elevator disembarking than what is common with normal jumping, though the lag will present itself no matter how straight across an elevator is disembarked, and does not present itself when boarding elevators.  In other words, the only place in the game this lag can be seen is on one of the eight potential elevator disembarking platforms.  You might think the lag is only seen here because there are not opportunities to fall any significant distance on the other levels, but as I said, the lag doesn't occur when boarding elevators, only after jumping off them.  The only way to circumvent the elevator disembarking lag is to walk off the elevators. 

Weird.

Well, that explains some of my recent deaths. A few times I got real bold going up the first elevator and attempt to beat the fireball going up the left ladder. A few times it was so close that right after my jump I have enough room to execute a second jump to land over the right ladder (which would save me from the fireball and give me time to jump again to the 2nd elevator), but both times I tried it the second jump didn't execute and of course I die by the fireball.

I also have what I call "mis-fires" sometimes in two spot on the barrel boards, right below Kong on 5th girder, and right below Kong on 3rd girder (but they are pretty rare). Really gets me during fast back-jump->striaght-jump of 2 barrels. When it happens its frustrating and I end up conceding that I probably just hit the button too early, but when you've been playing the game this long at this level, executing jumps are second nature, so you really get confused about that second jump not registering some time.

I do like that you pointed that out on the elevator, I doubt I'm going to attempt that quick double jump to beat the fireball anymore.

[VON]

Using frame advance I verified the elevator exiting lag to be 8 frames or approximately 130 microseconds.  Long enough to legitimately hit jump and have nothing happen.

The lag is associated with an extended landing animation which only triggers after exiting an elevator.

[Xermon54]

That's interesting.

And on a normal jump, how much "frames" do you need to wait before being able to execute another jump? I might think it takes 3-4 frames when you land before being able to jump a 2nd time. So jump on/off the elevator would take 2x more time before being able to jump again?

That definitely sounds legit. When I think about it, I always wait a little bit more before jumping off the elevator, like if I unconsciously knew that it took more frames before being able to jump again.

[danman123456]

Yeah i've noticed this when playing. I think its the same "tailbone" animation you can do on the final rivet. Have to look again. I just knew it would take a split second or so to jump again so don't jump to late or ill miss the platform.

[VON]

And on a normal jump, how much "frames" do you need to wait before being able to execute another jump? I might think it takes 3-4 frames when you land before being able to jump a 2nd time. So jump on/off the elevator would take 2x more time before being able to jump again?

The landing animation triggered from jumping off the elevators is 11 or 12 frames, while the landing animation for every other jump is 4 frames.  A difference of 7 or 8 frames. 

Sorry, I was definitely unclear in my phrasing.

[marinomitch13]

Here are a couple other tricks I thought of:

-You can leech barrels rolling down a ladder *without* having to hold left or right (you just have to be super close, kinda like how you can also leech kong without using the joystick)
-It's tough to describe, but you can actually 'hide' between the base of the  the inside-top-right ladder and the rivet hole from a fireball that is descending the ladder; then, as it first heads to the left, you have a chance to quick run up the ladder to clear the last rivet (assuming the top right rivet is the only one left). I had to use this once because I didn't wanna risk jumping across the rivet hole and landing on a fireball that was over there, and I didn't have time left to retreat to the left if the fireball came down. When I discovered this I was amazed.

I had to read that second trick 3 or 4 times, but I think I know what you mean, Mitch.  I tried to set it up on Level 1-2 just a few moments ago.  I didn't succeed, but my 3-story plunge through the rivet gap earned me an average score of 9.85 from the international judges.   

On my second attempt, the firefox reached across the gap and tasered me.  Important safety tip:  don't position yourself for this move while the fire object is on the same girder.

My third attempt also ended in death, this time by the firefox descending the ladder.  The trick seems to require "pixel perfect positioning" (or "PPP", if inducted into the DK Acronyms thread at a future date).

Here you go, Scott; way easier to replicate than to describe!  :

http://www.twitch.tv/marinomitch13/c/2818402

[Mary McManus]

Yea, I felt foolish for not recognizing how the fireballs behave in D2K

There were several things in both DK and D2K that made me facepalm when I finally got around to noticing them.

This thread is about those things.

Here are a few of my examples:

I had actually kill-screened the game before I even became conscious of the fact that you could vertical-jump two adjacent barrels. It seems like a rookie fundamental but it was one of many things that a player can go far and get away with not knowing, and I did. Somewhere far back in my learning I had decided that you always had to forward-jump barrel combos unless their pixels overlapped by a third or more, and just never questioned it again.

Even after seeing players do it, I would quickly forget about it, not realizing how important it really was, and how many lives I would save once I finally started recognizing/putting it into practice.

I actually STILL struggle with it. I have to remind myself constantly that this or that combo is safe to  vertical-jump. One time Hank was watching me stream, I was at million-plus pace, I lost a last man on a needless forward-jump, and he said "why didn't you just vertical jump?" I didn't have a good answer.

A couple other things that took me longer than they should have:
- That the conveyor switches directions when Kong hits the edge
- That you can't die from a timeout while in the air (thanks Ben!)
- Mentioned in another thread: that after L2 in D2K, DK doesn't throw any blue barrels except the first

I'll see if I can think of more. What are your "I can't believe I didn't notice that before"s?

How about when jumping 3 or more barrels you only get 500pts awarded to your score rather than the 800 pts that the on screen point value implies.