Donkey Kong Forum
Donkey Kong Strategy => Basic Donkey Kong Strategy => Topic started by: Dustin(tiptop)Myers on January 31, 2013, 06:03:21 pm
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Ok, I know I am not the only one that dreds this stage.
I see some players run for the purse right away. some go left and up the ladder, jump over the first rivet and so on...
Any advantage to running for the purse first?
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The reason people usually grab the gift is when they are pressing for points. You want to do it in a way that 1) the first fireball does not spawn on the left side, and 2) you are still able to then carry out either the star or weave pattern. Usually this means only ever immediately going for the purse on levels 1-3 (or maybe on 4), since the fireballs eventually become too fast.
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Oh, I see. That makes sense Mitch.
when I do it that way, almost always I have a fireball spawn on the left.
could that be because I might be too far on the right side before it spawns?
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Exactly. On level 1 you can just run all out for it and grab it right away and then retreat to the middle ladder (which counts as being on the left side), and a very high percentage of the time the fireball won't spawn on the left (if it does, they are so slow on that level you can usually work around it), but on level 2+ it starts getting more risky, so you'll need to wait on the left side side (close to the bottom of the middle ladder) for the first fireball to spawn on the right and then grab the purse and retreat back left (I believe this is safe like near 100% on levels 2 and 3 ;D ). After level 3 it starts to become too risky to lose a good start over. Glad to help!
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:)Thanks again! I'll try that out.
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There is even a little bit of buffer space for the left side than the right. You can even peak Jumpman's body a little past the middle ladder ad it will still count as the left side. It can give a little more of a head start to get the purse on certain levels like 3 or 4.
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Yeah, Robbie is correct. Just wasn't getting too specific. Watch any of Dean's gameplay for basically the most perfected gameplay as of yet!
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Level 3 you definitely want to wait at the ladder, let the fireball spawn on the right, then run grab the purse and run back.
Level 4 the fireball can spawn so quick that you'll want to completely abandon trying to get the purse sometimes...because the second fireball can then come out before you even have a chance to run and get the purse...then by the time you run and grab it, there will be 3 fireballs potentially running around, able to trap you at the bottom.
It depends on what you're going for though...if you're going for a world record or 1.1M...you're probably gonna go grab that purse regardless, because it's level 4 and you can restart if you die. If you're just going for a kill screen, don't even bother grabbing the purse on levels 3 and 4...because that's just 1 extra risk element you're unnecessarially taking.
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i dont see any value in this play, what with the time spent getting the prize and some potential jumps at kongs left foot lost, the net value is only like 100pts on level 1, versus the added risk of hampered access to the hammer...i do tend to go for the prize on level 2 but i dont really know why i bother...
8)
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One little switch I recently made to rivets was how I approach the middle hammer. This only applies to if you're not in a critical situation of a fireball getting to you while grabbing the hammer, but it is usually the mentality to grab the hammer with the least amount of air time, and I use to contribute it to wasted time in the air taking away from your hammer. But, noticing now that the fireballs do not actually react or turn blue until you hit the ground, I am now approaching the hammer differently. The longest jump to get the hammer is helping in two ways. When you land you are that much closer to the fireballs, and two you'll have a few extra ticket on you timer hammer. Normally you may say "What does that minute little bit give in reality", well, I haven't been doing it enough to to know this for sure, but I seem to have better luck getting to the fireballs that normally escape up the ladder right before the hammer can get them, and one or two extra hits per rivet level can really add up.
It may not be anything, but as long as I'm not in a critical situation, it seems to make more since to take the longest jump to get the hammer if it can increase your chances of more hits.
(http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2150/904309/21260953/405491172.jpg)
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Good stuff Dave. I had never really noticed or considered when the fireballs actually turn blue. I could definitely see that making the difference between a smash or a miss at the end of the hammer.
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This is all great info!
:)
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Well, scratch that about the timer, even though the fireballs don't turn blue until you actually hit the ground, the timer is going either way, just did a test. However, doesn't mean I still wont do it if I continue to get better groups with it.....even if it's just all in my head.
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The rivet stage is my nemesis. I would say 80-90% of my deaths are now on this stage. Anyone have any good strategy for level 5+ rivets? What kind of situations should I be doing the weave instead of the star pattern? I pretty much always try to do the star pattern, even in risky situations, which usually leads to me dying.
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I usually stick to the star patterns, but sometimes you have to improvise.
When Star Patterns go bad.
Once committed to the star pattern, after you've cleared the upper two left rivets and got the umbrella, sometimes you're trapped from getting back to the middle hammer. A decision usually has to be made. (1) wait and negotiate your way to the hammer, or two just go for the top hammer as if you are doing the weave pattern. Sure, there is one bridge rivet on the left that you still have to deal with, but usually the re spawning fireballs will go up to the left trap. Once up there, you can quickly get yourself back down to get the left rivet with usually only have to deal with 1 fireball, but you have many escape down at girders 2 and 3.
It's a good way out when your star goes bad.
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It's been stated in other threads, that the weave pattern is actually safer than the star. It yields less points, due to the fact that you don't take the left side hammer...but instead weave to the top and then grab the middle hammer immeditely.
The weave often lets you get to the middle hammer without any trouble from firefoxes...but sometimes you get trapped in the same manner that you get trapped in star pattern attempts.
My best tip for rivets is to not be scared of the firefoxes. Elaborating, whether or not Jumpman's actions have any sort of influence on firefox movements...I always will run in the direction of my objective...towards a hammer, towards a rivet...until I have to turn back. Reason being, if you expect cooperation from the firefoxes...meaning assume they will run away from you if you are running towards them to grab a hammer or whatever...it puts you in a better position for when they 'do' cooperate...since you'll already be 'on your way' to going wherever you wanted to go.
It's one of those coincidental/accidental/random things in this game that seem to work out if you believe in them...if that makes any sense. For example, I'll go out on a limb and admit that I sort of believe you can steer firefoxes down ladders just like barrels can be steered. It's much less of a % chance, but sometimes it feels like you can do that.
Same thing with running at a firefox...its almost like sometimes they don't want to kill you (have you ever point pressed the 1-1 fireball that comes out of the oil can, only for it to turn around and run away from you over and over every time you are trying to jump away from it, resulting in 0 points because the hit detection is off since it is running away from you)...and if you run at them they will turn around and run the other way...sometimes this makes the difference between being able to get to the middle hammer from the left hand side during the weave pattern...or sitting there waiting for them to run away themselves...only for your timer to get to low...creating a panic situation where you have to jump firefoxes...which normally results in death.
Run toward your objective until you must retreat...even if it means jumping over a rivet hole to the middle section of girders where 2-3 firefoxes are running around...you might be surprised when they all run away and let you grab that middle hammer...and even if they don't, you're that much closer to the hammer...just in case they do run away 2 seconds later.
--To better answer your original question, the first 5-10 seconds are key in making a decision as to how you might want to approach a rivet stage. Aside from the obvious star or weave patterns, if firefoxes all spawn toward the top and run left, its often best to freeroll...take out the bottom rivets on both sides first...until a couple firefoxes get lured down...then go for the upper rivets. Try to box out as many firefoxes as you can while freerolling...keeping them to the left and right sides if you're in the middle...on in the middle/left sections if you're on the right side, etc. Being patient, and letting firefoxes come down as far as possible...and as many as possible...is key. You must balance being patient with your bonus timer clock left, though. There comes a point where you simply have to go for it. Good example of this is Ross' Wildcard Rematch 21-6 run.
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I agree with Dave. Stick with the Star Pattern. If you are ultimately unable to get back down to the bottom hammer, just grab the top one at an advantageous moment (when you think you'll be able to get a relatively good number of fireball smashes). I, personally, try super hard to get back down to the bottom hammer (partially because I'm stubborn and I like the thrill, but partially because I am very confident in my own rivet screen abilities), though, going to plan B with taking the top hammer is not a bad strategy at all.
As far as the Weave Pattern goes, it can be very risky if your top hammer is lacking. Often times you can get stuck near the top-right rivets just like you get stuck near the top-left rivets many times during the beginning of the Star Pattern. Actually, a failed Star Pattern where you go for the top hammer right away is very similar to the complications you can get with the Weave Pattern -and it may actually be safer, as it gives any fireballs that are below you more room and and extra option of a ladder to climb to prevent you from being trapped.
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It's been stated in other threads, that the weave pattern is actually safer than the star. It yields less points, due to the fact that you don't take the left side hammer...but instead weave to the top and then grab the middle hammer immeditely.
I actually wouldn't advise new players try to employ the weave. The weave is only safer when you're experienced in knowing when to grab the top hammer and how to maneuver in a way that increases the probability of a high number of fireball smashes (yes, fireball whispering is real, deal with it), and even armed with the knowledge, it takes practice to execute the weave consistently and it is easy to screw up. The star will break down more often, due either to too much or not enough middle platform fireball activity, but I believe as a default tactic the star will allow for more levels to be cleared by dumb luck. What is important to recognize, however, is that no pattern should be default. To master the rivets, a player must learn to read the level from its outset and determine which course of action is best based on initial fireball movement. Expert rivet play requires familiarity with the nuances of many different approaches, and playing each rivet as it comes will yield a greater level average than playing exclusively one way.
My best tip for rivets is to not be scared of the firefoxes. Elaborating, whether or not Jumpman's actions have any sort of influence on firefox movements...I always will run in the direction of my objective...towards a hammer, towards a rivet...until I have to turn back. Reason being, if you expect cooperation from the firefoxes...meaning assume they will run away from you if you are running towards them to grab a hammer or whatever...it puts you in a better position for when they 'do' cooperate...since you'll already be 'on your way' to going wherever you wanted to go.
This is excellent advice!
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My best tip for rivets is to not be scared of the firefoxes. Elaborating, whether or not Jumpman's actions have any sort of influence on firefox movements...I always will run in the direction of my objective...towards a hammer, towards a rivet...until I have to turn back. Reason being, if you expect cooperation from the firefoxes...meaning assume they will run away from you if you are running towards them to grab a hammer or whatever...it puts you in a better position for when they 'do' cooperate...since you'll already be 'on your way' to going wherever you wanted to go.
This is excellent advice!
Absolutely. Being efficient is so important!
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It's really strange that this is the board people have problems with. My success rate as mentioned in another thread is 92.3 percent. Barrel, and Pie boards are 80 percent for me.
Here is what works for me.
1)Take advantage of the freezing fireballs. If a fireball is starting to freeze where the hammer is climb the ladder, and take your chances.
2)Wait it out if there is a traffic jam on the top hammer. Don't really start worrying until the timer hits 2000
3) You don't have to get the top hammer to finish the screen. If the bottom hammer is unsuccessful, and you only have the top two right rivets to get, sometimes you can focus on just quickly going to the right side, and clearing the second highest rivet, and then jumping back, and quickly going to the top to jump over the top rivet.
4) Don't give up on the star pattern too quickly. If the fireball is climbing the the very left ladder try to get him to go to the top, and then you take the path as quickly as possible to get the bottom hammer before the fireball comes back down again.
5) If the fire ball hogs the left side real quick, and the firefoxes have not spawned completely sometime if you don't get the bottom hammer, and rush to the right side you can get two firefoxes trapped on the left side.
6) If the timer is down to about 1500 it's time to go throw caution into the wind. Remember if the time runs out your dead anyways, and so at the point it's time to climb the ladder even if the firefoxes are still hogging that spot. You chances maybe slim, but having the clock run out on you is always a zero chance of completing the board.
7) Do the beginning of the star pattern as quick as possible until you reach the bottom hammer. Just being a half second too late can mean the difference between success, and death.
8 ) Be smartly bold. If you feel like you have an opening go for it because you may not get another opening again.
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These are good points George. I also don't seem to have too much trouble with rivets (it's conveyors that get me!).
I, personally, have found your 4th point about not abandoning the star pattern to be most helpful at making me progress from a 300-400k player to a 700k+ player. Maybe it has to do with the fact that fireballs tend to go right, but I just don't seem to get trapped as much in the top left corner when I am insistent on sticking with the star pattern than I do in the top right corner when I abandon the star and go for the top hammer right away. Maybe this right-ward tendency of the fireballs both 1) keeps them from pestering you as much as they could when you are to the left of the top hammer in the middle (standing on the ladder trying to get a fireball on the left to climb), and 2) from even climbing the top-left middle ladder as often as they would the top-right middle ladder when you are forced to climb up to the top platform to avoid them.
I used to get trapped quite frequently in almost complete-screwings sorts of ways, but then I resolved to test out being more persistent about sticking with the Star Pattern, and it has seemed to work. But, like all rules, there are exceptions, so every now and then I still have to concede to seemingly hopeless probabilities and take the top hammer.
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For me lately, I use the star pattern on the first three rivet boards. After that, I use the weave every time. I find it to be safer for running boards. I have been having more success with the weave, although less points. But like I said, I'm running boards at this point.
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I have seen games where a player will use both the Star and Weave patterns. For players that consider the location of where the firefoxes spawn, what criteria do you use to determine which pattern you will initiate?
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I dont think there is no way out on the rivot lev its all luck sorry. i hate this lev. if it was that easy no every one would just brease through it. fu. friends united.
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Allen should write a book about Donkey Kong strategy.
Let's not pretend we wouldn't all read it.
"The Pie Factory: FUCK THIS LEVEL, AND THE HORSE YOU RODE IN ON"