KO3 Format and Qualification Discussion

[d3scride]

How should MAME scores be factored in?  (The MAME players at KO2 really proved they need to be included.)

I think the MAME controversy kind of worked itself out, the only 3 MAME scores that were 'monkey wrenches' in the qualification were Dean, Vincent, Jeff, all who now have arcade scores above 1.075M, so by KO3 if there are MAME scores above the top arcade scores, then by all means they should be in the equation.

What Dave said. KO2 basically showed that MAME players are just as capable as arcade players.

[mikegmi2]

Lets say sometime this year, someone comes out of nowhere and gets a great score, 1,070,000.   They play in the Kong Off 3 on a dedicated machine.  Over the whole weekend, the highest score they put up is 400k.  They had a bad weekend.

Next year, this 1,070,000 is still in the top 10, or top 12...and said player by default is again guaranteed a dedicated machine. This player maybe literally stopped playing Donkey Kong altogether and doesn't even have a DK machine anymore...and is totally out of practice...yet when the Kong Off 4 rolls around...he/she...even though they didn't play a single game of Donkey Kong all year, comes to the Kong off 4 and plays all weekend on a dedicated machine.  High Score for the weekend, 250k.

At least for me, this is the type of scenario I am kinda getting at...and I think others were getting at with the sport analogies...is that even competing?  Should that person be given a spot year after year?

There are arguments for...yea they do deserve it...they got a great high score and nobody has been able to knock him/her out of the top 10 yet...and there are arguments against...well...no they shouldn't keep getting a dedicated machine...they don't play Donkey Kong anymore, they aren't competitive anymore...so...should they really have a dedicated machine in a Donkey Kong competition if they aren't good at Donkey Kong anymore?

Having to qualify each year would prevent something like this from happening.  It also ensures that the players on dedicated machines are in good form and ready to compete. 

Shouldn't the current best of the best be on dedicated machines...regardless of what happened 1, 2, 3+ years ago? Definitely debatable...

[Xermon54]

Mike: It's funny because your description almost described exactly Billy Mitchell, haha.

Personally, I would say that everyone that has a score of over 1.1m+ don't need any qualifications. Why? Because if you have a high score of 1.1m+, whether you play DK or not anymore, you won't lose your skill and become bad at this game. It won't happen. If you have the skill to do 1.1m+, you will likely always have the skill to be a good 1m+ player (unless you're getting very old, but that's not the problem for anyone right now).

As for the people below 1.1m, they should have qualifications. But once again, Steve Wiebe and Billy Mitchell have to participate, no matter what. So again, it doesn't matter what we do, it will draw conspiracy. If you're for it, you're a son of a b*tch. If you're against it, you're a son of a b*tch. I'm not god, I don't have all the answers  .

[mikegmi2]

Exactly Vincent..."so you have to be careful about how you share your opinions".

Eddie Rickenbacker, and the Red Baron...that's a whole other story...

= )

[LMDAVE]

Mike, I sort of know what you're saying, but for someone to put up 1,070,000, that is not an accident. The person knows the game and can play it very well. NO one is guaranteed they will play their best game on that kong off weekend.

For KO1, I scored my first killscreen at 914K, it was one of the few 900K+ games at the time and afterwards I got a call from Richie and an invite. I didn't do well at KO1 at all, but earned my spot.
For KO2, 10 months before the tournament, I managed to be the 4th verified million point game on TG behind (Hank, Billy, and Steve), and that earned me a spot. I've since beaten that score with a 1,026,000 that ended at 21-2, however I didn't submit it.

But, since my 1.015M from last year's qualification is still good, I'm posting it here right now, if I don't increase my score before KO3 and am still valid to go, I will not participate.

Only question I have is: Given there is still 8 months left, and I guess that 1.02M-1.03M will earn you a spot on a dedicated machine, if someone doesn't feel capable of getting that score over an 8 month period with as many tries as you like, why would that person want to compete in the Kong Off and bump someone out who has achieved that score? There has to be some sort of gauge to go by.

[homerwannabee]

I say make the minimum score 1.05 million, and you're in no matter what.  That way it doesn't seem like there is favoritism for Billy Mitchell, and Steve Wiebe.  It's not good to have figure head competitors that get in just because of a name.  This would be like the U.S. Open still having Jimmy Connors, and John McEnroe participate in the U.S. Open just because of their names.   If people set the limit to 1.05 million, than we do not start a bad precedent by having people because of their popularity, and nothing else.

[Xermon54]

I say make the minimum score 1.05 million, and you're in no matter what.

That would also put another problem. Chances are that there will be more than 12 people with a score above 1.05m for Kong Off 3/Kong Off 4 (There are already like 8 people with 1.05m+).

And if we say "the minimum score needs to be 1.1m and you're in no matter what", then we would need to make an exception for Billy and Steve.

1.05m+ seems to be the best thing to do, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are 15+ people with that score at Kong Off 3/Kong Off 4. I don't know if Jon Exidy is willing to find other DK machines! haha.

[homerwannabee]

8 people?   I thought there was 7?  You, Hank, Dean, Jeff, Steve W., Billy, Mark. 

[Xermon54]

I said "like 8 people", I didn't know exactly.

However, I think that there are at LEAST 10 people that could get 1.05m+ before Kong Off 3. I think that, ultimately, 1.1m+ will be the criteria for Kong Off 4.

[homerwannabee]

I said "like 8 people", I didn't know exactly.

However, I think that there are at LEAST 10 people that could get 1.05m+ before Kong Off 3. I think that, ultimately, 1.1m+ will be the criteria for Kong Off 4.

OK, agreed.  Also I have a feeling that by the time of the Kong Off 4 Steve Wiebe, and Billy Mitchell may actually retire from competitive Donkey Kong play.  Both of them are already legends in Donkey Kong, and by Donkey Kong 4 the field may have already passed them up if they remain stationary with their Donkey Kong high scores.  What this means is by the Kong Off 4 they may decide to skip the competition entirely since the chances of them winning become much smaller, and the most likely result is something like a 7th or 8th place finish.   In fact I think there is a decent chance Billy Mitchell skips the Kong Off 3, and a decent chance that Steve Wiebe skips the Kong Off 4.

[marinomitch13]

Yeah, I feel sort of the same way George. However, the way Steve Wiebe is able to pump out million point games is not joke. As long as he can keep that up, he actually is still a serious contender. If he works even just a little bit on his rejumping and top hammer on barrel screens he could be a very formidable contender for 1st almost any day.

[ChrisP]

Billy skipping KO3 would not surprise me.

However, I feel like Billy really cares a lot about the gaming community in the "promote it" sense, and will try to make if, and any future Kong Offs, for that reason, not so much to compete at DK.

For Steve, obviously the Donkey Kong thing turned out to be totally life-changing/defining thing for him, and he probably enjoys reconnecting with his "folk hero"/celebrity status at events like this, even if he's not seriously competing at the game anymore.

[Xermon54]

Billy will still participate, and so will Steve. Steve enjoys the formula of the Kong Off, I would be extremely surprised if one year he decided not to come.

As for Billy, like Chris said, really care about the gaming community (promoting it, etc). Whether he plays or not at the next Kong Off's, he will be there, I'm pretty sure.

[danman123456]

Well I have said before I think people should have to qualify again. Why? Because if you are one of the top 12 scores then during the "qualifying" period of 10.5 months you will qualify again. I agree that certain people will get automatic invites and that is what golf does. but this needs to have the same mentality as qualifying for the nfl playoffs. Baltimore won the super bowl but if they go 4-12 next year they don't get to the go to the playoffs.

For KO3:

1. Last year Winner
2. Current WR Holder (Arcade and Mame)
3. Billy
4. Steve

Honestly that is it. Afterwards its the Top 7 -9 (for 12 or 14 people) scores from the end of KO2 to 6 weeks prior to KO3 get a dedicate machine. Same should apply for the wildcard machines. If there will be 4 WC machines then the top 8 scores get to do the WC and after the first day its cut down to 4 WC so each gets a dedicated machine for day 2.

Why? This makes it interesting to know that anything could happen. You have to stay active to get to participate and being on the "bubble" will force you to keep pushing. You want to stop sandbagging? Then you have to submit your highest score period. No holding back. If you get caught doing that then your banned from any KO in the future. This prevents getting a 1.08 score that puts you in 12th place but then getting a 1.27 later and just holding onto it. You need to submit it BEFORE someone beats your 1.08.  If you don't then sorry it won't be allowed to submit after someone breaks your 1.08 score if it was recorded PRIOR to them submitting their score.  [ Think the now infamous Billygate ] Keep playing and producing if you want to go again. Otherwise stay home and watch. I really don't understand why people don't like this idea. Top 12 on the TG scoreboard should not be the only grounds for who gets to go but I understand its a TGI event and that maybe the only thing they go by. Still its not hard at all to do what John is suggesting or what I am.

Basically the top scorers are going to put up top scores and qualify year after year if they want to. nuff' said.

[LMDAVE]

The only thing about the sports analogy vs. video games is that when some one asks in general, who's the top 10 on Donkey Kong, a list is pulled up (from TG's scoreboard for example) and that's the answer. It's never "what's the top 10 scores this year?"

In Mike's earlier scenario about someone having a high score then walking away but are still an automatic qualifier. Other than Billy Mitchell, that scenario really doesn't exist. Players like Kyle Goewart and Shaun Boyd don't stream, and don't really talk about their current game, but they probably are still hard at it.

As for sand bagging, if someone is recording correctly, they need to state the date before each recording session, so you'll know if it's within the time frame.

Basically the top scorers are going to put up top scores and qualify year after year if they want to. nuff' said.

Well that's the truth, that's why I hope the official entry rules will be out soon. I talked to Jourdan and something within the next month should be up. The reason being, I play all my games at a very high pace now 1.1M-1.13M range, if I know I have to re-qualify, I'll back off on my game just to put up the 1.05M. Knowing what to shoot for makes a big difference.