Hank's Official Unofficial List of DK Killscreeners

[corey.chambers]

1167   Dean Saglio
1138   Hank Chien
1135   Vincent Lemay
1107   Jeff Willms
1064   Steve Wiebe
1062   Billy Mitchell
1052   Mark Kiehl
1037   Tim Sczerby
1037   Shaun Boyd
1026   David McCrary
1019   Steve Wiltshire
1012   Kyle Goewert
1010   Benjamin Falls
1007   Robbie Lakeman
1005   Phil Tudose
1000   Scott Kessler
999   Estel Goffinet
993   Ross Benziger
973   Jeff Wolfe
971   Ben Mazowita
957   Eric Howard
923   Mike Groesbeck
918   Jimmy Linderman
916   Josh Criss
906   Jonathan McCourt
905   Shayne Black
905   Jon McKinnell
904   Ben Jos Wahlbeehm
904   Ethan Daniels
900   Ike Hall
900   Eric Tessler
893   Chris Psaros
893   Corey Chambers
891   David Hansen
889   Jeff Harrist
885   Hans Kollinger
874   Mick Winzeler
871   Juan Medina
867   Clayton Brookins
867   Alex McGlothlen (done on early "Nintendo" boardset)
867   Svavar Gunnar Gunnarsson
862   Chris Enright
862   Andrew Gardikis
860   John Marks
860   Thomas Bauer
854   Nathan Phillips 
841   Patrick Scott Patterson
839   Stephen Wagner
801   Stephen Boyer
794   Shawn Cram
825-849?   Brian Kuh

[corey.chambers]

Per Hank I have moved his list over to the DKF. What do you guys think we should do with this list?

"The list is accurate to the best of my knowledge.  Please chime in if you have updated information.  This list includes Arcade/MAME/Double DK scores—verified or not.  Basically self reported scores are OK unless there is evidence to the contrary (innocent until proven guilty).

Some of these scores are not actually killscreens (Billy Mitchell, Eric Howard, Ben Mazowita).  Some of these scores are not the player’s personal best (for example: Scott Kessler, Stephen Boyer).  The scores listed are the highest publically known scores by killscreeners.  This is NOT a ranking of who I think is better than who.  They are sorted by the highest publically known score.  They are all rounded DOWN to the nearest 1000.  If you know of a higher score by a certain player let me know.   The unknown killscreen scores are listed at the bottom (sorry Brian).

My guess is this list is incomplete by at least 10 people who have killscreened but have not made it public (in fact, I know of at least 1 killscreener not on this list.)"

[ChrisP]

This list was great for its time, but at this point, what does it do that the forum's high score list and the Kill Screener Timeline don't do better?

[hchien]

This list hasn't been updated in about a year because I lost the ability to edit the list on CAGDC.  I was going to say the same thing that ChrisP mentioned which is: between Corey's HSL and Chris's timeline, most of the relevant information is being tracked.  The only added value is self-reported scores.  There are lots of self-reported scores which we all/most of us believe but are missing-- Wag's killscreen, Scott Kessler's 1M, Kyle's new PB (which he told me he may not submit), etc.  Also didn't Svavar or Jon McKinnel up their PB without any proof?  I have little interest in maintaining the list, so I ask:

Should this list be continued?  Or should we make it a relic of DK history?

If so, I'd suggest having someone take it over (Corey would be the obvious choice) or make it open source (like Wikipedia) by putting it in a shared spreadsheet.

I'm fine with whatever the community decides.

[corey.chambers]

This list could do a few things: 1) it would preserve real games that have no or little verification such as a photo, etc. 2) It would list all the killscreen scores in one list. For example, my highest killscreen is 964K but where is that listed now that I have one million game that is not a killscreen. The high score list may have some of this information, and the killscreen timeline only shows who has gotten a killscreen.

I propose that we reamp this list, clean it up, and get it to serve that purpose: To have a list of the highest killscreens (self-reported) We may need to critique it because there may be scores on here that are not killscreen scores etc. Was Scott Kessler's one million a killscreen? If we make this only a list of highest killscreens possible then I think it would serve a purpose.

What do you guys think about that?

[corey.chambers]

Obviously Hank's original list will be on the CAG site so it will be preserved and will remain linked to HSL as a relic of history, but that does not mean we can't use it as the basis for this purpose.

[marinomitch13]

It seems the main purpose it would fill now would be to simply compile people's claimed scores that do not meet the criteria for the DKF HSL. For example, my friend David Hansen's score on here is higher than on the HSL because he did it on a 3-in-1 machine with no immediate witnesses -though all the DKF-HSL-insufficient-evidence points to it being an authentic score.

[hchien]

2) It would list all the killscreen scores in one list. For example, my highest killscreen is 964K but where is that listed now that I have one million game that is not a killscreen. The high score list may have some of this information, and the killscreen timeline only shows who has gotten a killscreen.

Corey I think you're misinterpreting the list.  It's a list of the personal bests of all killscreeners.  In fact some of the scores on the list are NOT killscreens.  If you have a higher score that is not a killscreen, then that score is obviously more impressive since it was at a higher pace.  You could start a HSL of killscreens, but that's somewhat pointless IMO for the above reason.

The original purpose of the list was to identify contenders for KO1 spots.  In my head the first cutoff was you had to be a killscreener.  Then I sorted the list by the killscreener's PBs to give a rough estimate of skill level.  (I still don't think PBs are the best indicator of skill-- Ross was the perfect example until a week ago.)  That's why there is not so much emphasis on the exact score, rather a "ballpark" score.  Of course it evolved into somewhat of a high score table later on but that was the original purpose of the list.

I don't know if Scott's 1M was a killscreen.  I'd bet it was though.  He posted a snapshot on the old TG forums (it's buried deep if someone wants to dig it out).  He actually said he beat that score but never made the score public.

[corey.chambers]

So the purpose of the list was to list everyone who has a killscreen and then add their personal best. Well, that would be the same as just adding scores to Chris' killscreen timeline, and that info is on the HSL or maybe it isn't. I was attempting to make the list relevant. If anyone is interested in doing anything with this list or following through with any of the suggestions I have made then feel free to share your thoughts. And then there is a non-verified list idea that Mitch shared. Beyond that I don't have any further thoughts at the moment.

[hchien]

So the purpose of the list was to list everyone who has a killscreen and then add their personal best.

Yes but not everyone streams, submits to TG or can have someone in our community peer review.  To me that is the main added value.  If you guys thinks those scores are irrelevant then so be it, but I feel that is like living in a bubble.  I also think with TGs submission fees the number of unrecognized scores will increase.  For example, Kyle may not submit his score to TG.

[ChrisP]

I would definitely be in favor of some sort of "gray area" high score list!

And not to derail but...

(I still don't think PBs are the best indicator of skill-- Ross was the perfect example until a week ago.)

Yes, yes!

As the personal bests of the group continue to mash up in the same 1,000,000 to 1.1 range, we are moving into an era where neuro-physio-psychological traits like consistency, focus, stamina, and emotional control are going to become more and more relevant and important in evaluating and ranking players. I've said it before that these traits and the "mental game" of DK are almost criminally underanalyzed, but we're going to be moving in that direction as the focus gets more and more tournament-y, on what you can do "on demand."

PBs are so 2012!

For example, we all know Allen is capable of 600K+, but he needs what is, for him, a very rare perfect storm of mood, context, and attentiveness to actually do it. Then there's a player like Ross, who we all knew was capable of 1.1, but he's ready to shut the game down when three barrels in a row don't steer!

[dd0ck]

one day, one day, ill be on this list.

a man can dream.....