STAR, WEAVE, or MIX?

[VON]

Choose and explain please.

[TheSunshineFund]

Sir-Mix-A-Lot

I find both approaches useful in different situations as things unravel.

[homerwannabee]

Star because I am unsure of the proper time to use the weave.

[stella_blue]

During serious games, I use the star pattern almost exclusively.  Occasionally, I'll play an "experimental" game where I'll alternate between the 2 methods (odd-numbered levels = star, even = weave).

No Hammer attempts are rare, but when I'm so inclined I like to use the "juice box" pattern on Levels 01 through 03.   

An extensive analysis of the star/weave, exploring the various nuances, could fill volumes.

[mikegmi2]

I use the star almost always, but sometimes use the weave if I think I won't be able to make it safely back down to the bottom hammer.  Also, being the firefoxes move so fast on L5+, I don't know if anyone can actually judge whether it is best to use the weave or the star in any given scenario.  The firefox that was darting over to the left that caused you to go for the weave can change directions and run over to the right side in 2 seconds...making it possible for you to have safely done the star pattern.

Also for me, I have made it deep in many games using the star exclusively (unless I have to freestyle, or weave it up on the rare occasion)...so i'll continue to use that.  I haven't been dying hardly at all on rivets lately...PF screwings and barrel mistakes are where my deaths occur.

[hchien]

Star almost exclusively.  Although I believe theoretically a mix is the best strategy for both survival and points.  It's very difficult to decide early in the board which is better.   I experimented with both patterns in my early days and found that I was better with the star.  A re-experiment is long overdue.

I use the rivet board as my "mental break" board, so I'm not even paying attention to where the fireballs are coming out.  I'm sure I've done star many times where weave would have been better.

[lakeman421]

I pay attention to what the fireballs do at the start of the board.  I will use the weave pattern sometimes when they all spawn towards the bottom of the board which will give you plenty of time to clear the left side and be able to grab the top hammer without issues.  I also like to make up my own patterns.

[Fast Eddie]

iv been trying mixing it up recently, but i find it makes me indecisive and i often feel im choosing the wrong option...

i do like to clear the first rivet and jump back star style but then take the option of clearing the hammer rivet from the left side if i feel threatened...

 

[tudose]

i use a mix of both patterns but i lean on the weave about 75% of the time. i personally find the weave to be the superior pattern in terms of survival. on the other hand im fairly certain the star is the more profitable pattern over the course of a full game. dean looked into it a few years ago and its why he runs the star exclusively

[marinomitch13]

No Staal or Tudose patterns as options?! Just kidding. Those are actually what I would consider to be deviations off of the main 'Star' pattern. I actually use those a lot now, as they have their very helpful place as plan-b variations, and they can help with survival -as well as point-pressing- if used properly.


I chose 'mix'; however, my base pattern is the Star. The reasons for this are simple:

1) The Weave is often simply necessitated by fireballs at the beginning.

2) The Weave has its merits, when used properly, in terms of both survival and point-pressing:

-In terms of survival, if you think you won't be able to get back down to the bottom hammer because of some middle-spawning fireballs, the Weave can help you avoid this.

***However, I'm starting to believe that 1) being able to judge ahead of time whether or not you will actually get blocked off by a fireball is nearly impossible in most cases, and 2) where the Weave would help you in this manner, the Staal pattern is actually nearly as good in terms of survivability, as well as nearly equal in terms of average points gained (there are usually more points wasted in the Weave waiting to grab the top hammer, where in the Staal pattern there is usually more time wasted clearing the last rivet by the bottom hammer). However, I admit that more testing needs to be done on this point.***

-In terms of pressing, I think the Weave can be superior to the Star when many fireballs spawn up near the top. This allows you to quickly (hopefully!) get to the top hammer with the potential to smash a ton of fireballs and then quickly finish the screen, whereas, in the Star you'd be stuck waiting around by the bottom hammer for fireballs to descend, and you'd probably get poor smashes anyway.

3) Finally, the reason why I use the Star as my base pattern, is that it is ultimately more adaptable to more situations. If all else fails, this pattern is more easily dropped for 'free styling'. Some of my suspicions about how the Staal pattern compares to the Weave -as well as the fact that you can't do the Tudose pattern while also doing the Weave- contributes to this decision as well.


One final note, what Mark said about the Weave is crucial!!! In order to do well at the Weave, you need to know how to efficiently use the top hammer to maximize your survivability. The fact that this takes quite some experience to gain may factor into this poll, in that newer players may not yet be able to utilize or understand the merits of the Weave because they have yet to develop those skills and see it for themselves in practice.

EDIT: For anyone wondering what I mean, I've attached some pictures of the 'Staal' and 'Tudose' patterns below.

[Shane_NC]

Yeah I chose mix as well.

The thing about the star is, if you can manage to get into the pattern, it usually gives you the best chance possible to complete the stage. You really need to kill atleast 2 fireballs with the bottom hammer and hopefully get 2+ on top hammer. I think a big issue when using the weave is hammer grab timing, especially the bottom hammer.

However, on certain situations, namely when 2-3 fireballs spawn on the same level as the bottom hammer and are moving left quickly. This is a good situation to weave. I truly think the weave is a better option then the open star pattern, where you clear all but middle rivet, grab top hammer first and hopefully can manage to trap some fireballs on the top 2 levels on the left side (hopefully you manage to kill the fireballs on the right, and get decent spawn locations). Its definetely safer than the open star for sure. However, when using the weave, when waiting on the left side waiting for an opening to take top hammer there are 2 things to consider.

1) if you make it under hammer, dont grab it straight away if the fireballs are all up top. Timing this grab is very critical. Wait for a few to climb down before you make your grab.

2) While waiting on the left for an opening to  take top hammer it can be a good idea to hang your legs a bit down the ladder, thus opening up another level for the fireballs to go down. Thus clearing more fireballs out of your way when attempting a top hammer grab. This opens the top 3 girders instead of just the top 2.

[VON]

I chose "weave" to give it some love, even though I'm truly a "mix" pattern player.

I will always use the weave unless nearly all the firefoxes have spawned on the bottom two girders or I am prevented from climbing to the third girder via the left inside ladder.  Actually, even when I'm forced to climb the outside ladder I will often seal off the star route anyway.

Basically, I feel the star approach is incredibly dependent on luck.  If it ever works, it's luck.  If it awards big points, it's luck.  If delayed or prevented entirely from grabbing the bottom hammer (which happens ALL THE TIME), the pattern breaks down and players are often forced to grab the top hammer first, which turns the board into an unsealed weave, which is shit.  If only one or two firefoxes are hammered with the bottom hammer (which happens ALL THE TIME), the board turns into a weave without a safe left side and with less time on the clock, which again, is shit.

The weave, on the other hand, I feel allows players to dictate how the board plays out.  Once the left side is sealed, players have all the time they need to measure the situation.  If the top hammer is blocked, the bottom two rivets can be cleared and the opportunity to grab the top hammer will arise as the firefoxes disperse.  If not enough firefoxes are hammered, it's almost always the player's fault.

The firefoxes want to live in the upper right of the board, and the weave punishes this proclivity more efficiently and effectively than the star, IMO.

Only posers and hacks play exclusively with the star pattern.

[ChrisP]

I've been a pretty solid mix lately.

One thing that's really satisfying about the weave is committing to it and then watching as a firefox comes up to the third girder, moves left, bumps against the rivet hole, then wanders away to the right.

Nice try, bro!

[marinomitch13]

If delayed or prevented entirely from grabbing the bottom hammer (which happens ALL THE TIME), the pattern breaks down and players are often forced to grab the top hammer first, which turns the board into an unsealed weave, which is shit.

I used to think this -which is why I used to try my damnedest to fight back to the bottom hammer- however, after much practice, I've started to think that the Staal pattern isn't actually that bad after all. That's why I've let up about it to Allen quite a bit as of recently (however, he does never cease to amaze me at how badly he sometimes times the top hammer grab... but he is getting better at it, thank goodness!). But, like I said, I do think this pattern needs to be analyzed more in order to come to a more definitive conclusion.

However, even if the Staal pattern does end up being found to be quite horrible on average, I think it is the case that 1) only a minority of the time is the Star pattern delayed by a 3rd girder fireball, and 2) if it is delayed, a majority of this amount of time one is still able to get back down to the bottom hammer -so the Staal pattern ends up becoming a very small minority outcome of utilizing the Star pattern.