Seperating the posers from the actual champs

[giv]

If there was a red/green light on top of the cabinet that would show red if you would get screwed too many times to make it to the end, and green if you would be able to make it to the end given you didn't make any human mistakes...that would save everyone a lot of time.

I think if you hook up a Zoltan the fortune-teller machine to a Donkey Kong, it will tell you. The turban even lights up.

This may be the greatest thread ever, by the way.

[mikegmi2]

If there was a red/green light on top of the cabinet that would show red if you would get screwed too many times to make it to the end, and green if you would be able to make it to the end given you didn't make any human mistakes...that would save everyone a lot of time.

I think if you hook up a Zoltan the fortune-teller machine to a Donkey Kong, it will tell you. The turban even lights up.

This may be the greatest thread ever, by the way.

Those Zoltan machines are scary.  Also I hear they might be making a "Big 2", a much darker movie...where the main plot is Josh's Mom pressing charges against the lady that slept with Josh when he was 'big'.

[VON]

If there was a red/green light on top of the cabinet that would show red if you would get screwed too many times to make it to the end, and green if you would be able to make it to the end given you didn't make any human mistakes...that would save everyone a lot of time.

I think if you hook up a Zoltan the fortune-teller machine to a Donkey Kong, it will tell you. The turban even lights up.

This may be the greatest thread ever, by the way.

Those Zoltan machines are scary.  Also I hear they might be making a "Big 2", a much darker movie...where the main plot is Josh's Mom pressing charges against the lady that slept with Josh when he was 'big'.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!  Pressing charges for being the luckiest boy in the world.

Nice

[Shane_NC]

""1) Acquiring the skills:

       a) This includes knowledge -which is the aspect of the whole process that I am saying is significantly easier than BITD.
       b) And this includes practicing to apply that knowledge consistently -this I also think is much easier than back in the day, since now 1a) you don't have to cough up money like some people did, or 1b) you don't have to have your own machine, like some people did before MAME was around and arcades basically had ceased to exist, 2) People can have the added accountability of streaming their game or submitting inps where the best current players can analyze the game and give you constant and immediate feedback (the very existence of the internet works wonders to this end).
""
Mitch Im not slow, or dumb. There is no way I could disagree with this of course it was harder to be good back in the day. Yes the knowledge is out there. All there ready to be learned and soaked up. There are also algebra books  and spanish books that details exactly how to learn alegbra and spanish. Even then that doesnt garuntee someone can or will learn it. Its no consolation to a kid struggling with alegbra that its easier to learn alegbra today than 100 years ago. Its more a slap in the face

[SQUIIDUX]

1. Run boards, become point poser
2. Point press
3. ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
4. Profit

 

[hchien]

There are also algebra books  and spanish books that details exactly how to learn alegbra and spanish. Even then that doesnt garuntee someone can or will learn it. Its no consolation to a kid struggling with alegbra that its easier to learn alegbra today than 100 years ago. Its more a slap in the face

But if you stream algebra on twitch while Ken twerks to YMCA in his tighty whities then everyone, even Vincent, would be an algebra genius.

Shane you realize Mitch has not killscreened either so he is slapping himself in the face.  Mitch is saying yes it still takes hours and hours of practice but it's easier to learn algebra from a book than to figure it out on your own.

[Shane_NC]

Hey Hank,

Yea, I realize mitch hasn't KSed DK yet, but its due solely to his own laziness when it comes to playing. Mitch realizes he could easily get a KS with his knowledge, time of practicing, and skill. I would be interested to see his response if he was in the trenches 5 days a week streaming for 4+ hours each and coming up short. But rather, Mitch streams 2 hours a month on a good month and half the time is spent doing 1-1s. And then for all the players that are really putting in 15-20+ hours a week in, they have to hear this shit. It might be hard for the DK elite to sympithize will a newer player and how certain discussion and the difficulty of a KS makes them feel. Yes, all elite players were new at one point in tiime, but they didn't have to hear people discuss how easy the game is that they are coming up short in.

For someone to grind this game out like a second job, and still come up short, and then for someone to say its easy or blah blah blah isnt very encouraging and doesn't make you feel good about yourself or your play. I think that is the exact thing we are trying to discourage on this forum.

I was thinking about this topic a lot lately, and of my responses. It is very possible I am defending this so vehemently as to justify what Ive been doing with almost all my spare time lately. If I am wasting all this time and my life on an easy game, that should be easy to beat, and that everyone acknowledges as an easy game; it doesnt make me feel good about how Ive been leading my spare time lately.

But then on the other hand, Im doing my best to stick up for any non KS player on these forums. To tell them that it's a hard ass game, and their time and patience is and will pay off. That what they are working towards is a big thing and worthwhile. It would be a real fucking shame if the if the ramblings of the best in the world drive off and discourage the newer players.

If good players want to discount all the years and hundreds and hundreds of hours they put it to make them feel better of pump their ego, or merely for the sake of a philisophical DK debate that is fine with me, but dont do it at the expense of the pride and respect of newer players.

[hchien]

Hey Shane, no one is saying DK is easy or doesn't take a ton of practice to get a killscreen.  I think people are just saying it's easier than it was in the 80's just because of the availability of knowledge, streams, modern day tools (save states, recordings etc).  It's still a great gaming feat.  A good analogy would be running a 4 minute mile.  This was once thought impossible and would have been a world record 60 years ago.  Nowadays it's still a great time but won't turn any heads.  We just have better food, medicine, training regimens, shoes, tracks, etc. now.  Same with DK.  Even just the knowledge that it's possible/that so many others have done it makes it easier.  I remember reading that the Friday (hardest) NY Times crossword puzzle is 'easier' later in the day than early in the day.  Not because people are telling each other the answers, but just because you heard your coworker finished it, so therefore I must be able to do it.  Another personal example: when I started playing, I had no idea you had to retreat on elevators.  Of course I knew this was an option, but on my own I would have thought it was humanly impossible to look at the next spring while running toward the final ladder.  After I learned that this is what the killscreeners were doing (just the knowledge that it was possible, I had no videos), it only took a day or 2 for me to learn how to do it.

Again no one is saying it's easy or not a great accomplishment.  There's a reason it's consistently on the hardest games of all time lists.  It's just easier than it used to be.

Edit:  BTW none of us have forgotten how much practice it took to get our first killscreen.  I'm pretty sure all the killscreeners can tell you exactly how much time (in months) it took them to reach it.

[ChrisP]

Shane has been in a "no sleep till kill screen!!!" deathmatch with Crazy Kong.

Go easy on him, I've been there.

[Shane_NC]

Hank, I have said many times I agree with that situation. I wouldnt be sitting here typing mountains trying to defend the fact that it isnt easier than it used to be.

In fact, this isn't even what I took issue with in the first place.

I took issue with " 870K KS is a Shit score and "DK isnt hard bc it can be KSed 5 times a day" by the elite.

The "it was harder back in the day argument" only came into effect to soften and attempt to justify the 2 coments above that I do take issue with. At this point its been said so many times like it's an attempt to change the subject. I do not take issue with "it was harder back in the day". This is so blindingly obvious its kinda weird how you guys keep repeating it. Its almost like you guys do not understand what I am talking about initially. This thread has been so mind fucked and beat to death I am unsure you can find my intended meaning behind the same rehashed arguments.

I am done with this post, done commenting and done reading this thread. It is the same rehashed bullshit over and over and over.

----------------------------------------
I believe what I am trying to convey in a nutshell, is that just because something is easier than it used to be doesn't make it easy as a whole.
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In addition, I dont think the time (in months) is an accurate gauge of anything. I think its really the amount of hours they put in in those months. It could take someone 3 years to get a KS if they only played 1 hour a week. Or it could take someone 5 months because they played 6 hours every day. It is very likely a person that took 5 months and a person that took 2 years spent the exact same time in hours on the game.

[marinomitch13]

In fact, this isn't even what I took issue with in the first place.

I took issue with " 870K KS is a Shit score and "DK isnt hard bc it can be KSed 5 times a day" by the elite.

True, but I'd make one note: It was only one elite DK player that made this claim. There's a reason why it was Vincent -and not any other DK elites- that said this in this specific way. Simply put: This is just how Vincent talks. I should know, he lived at my place for almost a month.  Vincent has a very blunt manner of speaking that is quite apparent to those that know him in person. Additionally, Vincent thinks even his 1.1m is 'shit', which reveals the fact that Vincent was probably, likewise, just speaking relatively. Given the further context of the conversation with Tim, it makes even more sense that Vincent was speaking exaggeratedly as well. I don't think you should read into too much. I'm sure no 'elite' DK player (or any DK player, for that matter) literally thinks a KS is 'shit' -other than the fact that it is 'the shit' -which is obvious! .

Also, I think that the fact that the milder "it was harder back in the day argument" has been rehashed as much as it has, is probably due to it simply being correlative to what good DK players actually think about the matter. It's probably what is more representative of their common opinions.

In addition, I dont think the time (in months) is an accurate gauge of anything. I think its really the amount of hours they put in in those months. It could take someone 3 years to get a KS if they only played 1 hour a week. Or it could take someone 5 months because they played 6 hours every day. It is very likely a person that took 5 months and a person that took 2 years spent the exact same time in hours on the game.

I'd agree with you completely that this is a better metric of determining the effort people have put in. Actually, I'd say that I probably spent more time playing DK in my first month with the game than in all of my other months combined. I was playing almost every day for at least 3 hours -sometimes up to like 12! Now, even though my games are longer, I can barely play more than 2 hours at a time unless I have a game going. My 4.5 hours straight the other day was probably my best this whole year.

[lakeman421]

No matter how many people kill screen the game or how good they are, it is still a major accomplishment.  Everyone who has kill screened it and gone on to becoming an elite will always remember their first kill screen.  If it was easy, everyone would be doing it.  You could look up all the perfect pac man patterns and copy them if you want, but how many people have done that?  Just because the information is there and you know everything there is to know, it still comes down to having the skills to execute and accomplish that feat.  Even if all I had was one kill screen at 850k and never went beyond that, I would still be proud I reached my goal (which was my initial intention), because at the end of the day you do it for yourself.  That's how I always looked at it.

[craighiphopfish]

I agree with Robbie

[muscleandfitness]

We Love you    Tim, Roy, Brian Allen or is it Mr Mary Mcmanus.. any how Im an Australian do i count.. My high score  is now on a cab 562800 and i run boards and i still cant get a million.. yer buddy.. love it.. i try harder than any one on  the mame streamers .. fkk  ive played over 15 thousand game of dk ...  yer buddy. Im sorry you did not get mentioned in the movie king of kong but please dont rubbish us on here mate. allen.

[homerwannabee]

You know I think it's ironic that 10 years ago Tim's tune wast vastly different.  Remember this is the guy who said "1,000,000 points is impossible!"   Now flash forward 10 years later, and now it's your a poser if you don't have at least a 1,000,000 point pace.   My how times have changed!