Author Topic: Richie's / TG's response to KO MAME debate  (Read 27658 times)

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Offline Scoundrl

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Re: Richie's / TG's response to KO MAME debate
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2013, 11:48:10 am »
'Aint no F'n MAME machines here on Donkey Kong Off Row'
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 12:45:12 pm by Scoundrl »
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giv

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Re: Richie's / TG's response to KO MAME debate
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2013, 11:54:27 am »
I give up!

I can't parse anyone or anything for intent anymore...

That's the spirit, Chris!

I told you guys I work for the Discordians, right? Operation Mindfuck. I'm chef of operations. Yes that is not a typo. No? I never mentioned this before? Well, no wonder there's some confusion. Sorry about that!

But seriously, like I keep saying, when we're all together at the Kong Off it will all be clear and make more sense.

Offline Xermon54

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Re: Richie's / TG's response to KO MAME debate
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2013, 12:11:40 pm »
Don't worry George mate, I was obviously kidding  ;).

I'm fine MAME scores are not accepted for dedicated machine (but still accepted for wild carder, which is cool), it just seemed that some people were a little bit bashing on MAME, which disappoints me, since MAME is obviously an important part of the arcade culture.
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Re: Richie's / TG's response to KO MAME debate
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2013, 12:21:11 pm »
'Aint no F'n MAME machines here on Kong Off Row'

See, now the lyrical muse is starting to inspire Ken. You me and Richie should collaborate on the next verse!

There could be a mame machine at the kong off, but you'd have to play it in your underpants. On an arcade machine you don't have to, but you could if you wanted.

I know one day there will be a verse about Zoo Keeper moods. It will be a very long, sixty page verse.

Offline marinomitch13

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Re: Richie's / TG's response to KO MAME debate
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2013, 03:48:59 pm »
Like I said in Phil's stream the other day:

You can make the rules, but that doesn't give adequate justification that those rules are wisest/best. Additionally, it doesn't supply justification on a moral grounds either.

Until a justification is given beyond an essentially 'might makes right' response, I'm not really swayed that this move is a good one.
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giv

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Re: Richie's / TG's response to KO MAME debate
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2013, 04:11:53 pm »
Oh Mitch, we were poking fun at ourselves. Might never makes right in my book. We all know each other's different opinions about this subject at this point.

But my opinion counts as much as a DK purists opinion. Just because I don't meet the high standards of and I'm not allowed into the elite inner circle of the online DK community doesn't mean my opinion should be dismissed. Especially when my opinion is shared by many of the competitive arcade players, from the 80's to today.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 04:18:35 pm by giv »

Offline homerwannabee

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Re: Richie's / TG's response to KO MAME debate
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2013, 04:35:45 pm »
But my opinion counts as much as a DK purists opinion. Just because I don't meet the high standards of and I'm not allowed into the elite inner circle of the online DK community doesn't mean my opinion should be dismissed. Especially when my opinion is shared by many of the competitive arcade players, from the 80's to today.

Just to let you know that this is the closest that you have ever sounded like Brian Allen, except for the better grammar part.  Oh yeah, I have had plenty of moments myself, but given your feelings about him my previous statement should make you stop, and ponder.  Personally though, I don't think anyone really respects your opinion any less than the "Inner Circle" of gamers.  Except for maybe Brian Allen. ;)
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Offline marinomitch13

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Re: Richie's / TG's response to KO MAME debate
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2013, 05:06:59 pm »
Oh Mitch, we were poking fun at ourselves.

Really? 'It' (assuming you are referring to the song verse posted at the start of this thread) came across as extremely passive-agressive, if not extremely explicit. Regardless, that does not deal with the specific issue I was posting about.

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Might never makes right in my book.

Excellent! Then you should equally share my desire for an actual justification.

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But my opinion counts as much as a DK purists opinion.

Wait... to whom is this referring? Does anyone actually only play DK? If so, is this someone who is a top DK player? I doubt anyone fits this criteria.

Or does this mean people who want to include MAME submissions in the KO2 top-12 qualification process? If so, I don't understand how this could be considered 'purist'.

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...the elite inner circle of the online DK community...

I have no clue what/whom exactly this is referring to. Whatever exactly it is, it seems like a bold postulation that wasn't given due attention. Maybe explain yourself further.

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...doesn't mean my opinion should be dismissed. Especially when my opinion is shared by many of the competitive arcade players, from the 80's to today.

I agree. So... we know what the opinion is... but what is its justification(s)? That's all I'm prying at. I completely understand the fact that TG/1up can do the KOs exactly how they want to, but -as I have said elsewhere- the issue is why do they want what they want? The explanation of this aspect of their opinion is what would be considered the 'justification' for their view.

"Thou hast made us for Thyself, and our heart is restless until it finds its rest in Thee." -Augustine, Confessions.
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Offline Xermon54

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Re: Richie's / TG's response to KO MAME debate
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2013, 05:18:55 pm »
Ironically, if I had never done 1,135,900 on arcade at the 1up, I would've never been able to qualify for Kong Off 3 by putting a VERIFIED score on arcade (my highest would've been 988k, done at KO2, which wouldn't have been enough to qualify for KO3). But I can bet anything that if I hadn't done my 1,135,900, they would have adjusted the rule so I can participate at the Kong Off 3.
That is the ironic part. It's like when/if Billy Mitchell or Steve Wiebe will be out of top 12 (they are 7th and 8th right now), they will still be invited for top 12.  They would make exceptions for "big names" for Billy/Steve/myself, but not for new comers anymore. This is the sad part.

No hard feeling for not inviting MAME players, but I shall remain disappointed.
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Re: Richie's / TG's response to KO MAME debate
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2013, 05:30:47 pm »
George Riley says I sound like Brian Allen. Have I mentioned recently: I love this scene! (No homo) I'll tell you, I've been a part of many communities over the years and had many hobbies, but this one is far and away the best. Nothing like it anywhere.

Mitch, I can't get into a cut and paste fight. You win, ok?

Offline marinomitch13

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Re: Richie's / TG's response to KO MAME debate
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2013, 05:40:26 pm »
You don't have to get into a copy and paste war... just explain why TG/1up has decided to choose this setup. It's really that simple. I'm sure you have direct contact with Richie quite often. Ask him.

So long as the justification remains unclear, there remain daunting reasons why this particular decision was a poor choice.

P.s. George, as far as I have had interaction with you, you have not been the type of person to simply dismiss an argument in the way you seemingly are here with your previous comment -unless, you think that I, like you have made clear that you believe is the case with John Lexmark, am simply and intentionally being a troll. Do you think this of me? Am I not raising a legitimate question? I know I am most definitely not alone on this matter, so I'm not just speaking for myself.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 05:54:03 pm by marinomitch13 »
"Thou hast made us for Thyself, and our heart is restless until it finds its rest in Thee." -Augustine, Confessions.
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corey.chambers

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Re: Richie's / TG's response to KO MAME debate
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2013, 06:14:04 pm »
The win goes to Mitch, oh wait, resigning a discussion does not concede the point. To be honest, I am not completely upset over only allowing Arcade scores. I can see the value of promoting the nostalgia of the old arcade culture. I totally get that. Thirty years from now we will still want to fight for the nostalgia of an original arcade machine, as long as they continue to last. And we must continue to preserve the feel and culture of the classic arcade games. Three hundred years from now maybe we will only have new mame arcade setups to work with. The overall perpetuity of the community demands adjustments as time goes on, but we must preserve what can be preserved. Does this preservation exclude any and all exceptions without further justification? No. I believe that an exception can be made for a couple Mame players here and there in the future without violating the overall goal of having an all Arcade competition. After all, they will be competing on the arcade machine at the Kong Off, just as the players will be doing in the Wildcard. The feel and culture that is stirred by the Kong Off already has the preservative factor and social impact. Inviting Vincent to Kong Off 1 because he had over one million on mame, and inviting Dean and Jeff to the Kong Off 2 because of their mame scores, is a good example of a couple exceptions to the overall rule. If a player can and does prove their skills on mame, they are not merely proving a mame score, they are showing their capabilities. As a community we can not overlook the capabilities of an incredible player because one or a few people have created an absolute without clear justification beyond the mere statement of the position. Ultimately, their is no clear justification. If the Kong Off 3 allowed one mame player, would anyone even know or care? The main problem here is that a discussion is not taking place. And discussions are at the heart of a community. We must work together to accomplish great things. As long as no clear justification is offered as to why a single mame exception would tarnish the preservation of the original arcade culture, or would have a negative impact on the social level with the Kong Off 3, people will continue to be disappointed, nay, even disrespected, because their voice, no matter how small it is said to be, which it is not, will not only not be heard but will be treated as if it does not have any value at all. And that is not how you treat people.

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Re: Richie's / TG's response to KO MAME debate
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2013, 07:13:07 pm »
MAME is for practice! That's my opinion, and I thought I had made that abundantly clear. What more justification do you want? I should explain why I think mame is for practice? We've been through this all so many times. There was a show on Sunday, Richie said what he thought, a bunch of other folks did too. That was that, case closed, no?

And Mitch, I already explained the joke verse in this very thread. Yet you still think it was passive aggressive? I don't know what to tell you then. I explained myself, if you don't like my explanation, what can I do. You're going to think what you want to think, see what you want to see.

Offline Shane_NC

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Re: Richie's / TG's response to KO MAME debate
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2013, 07:18:09 pm »
But my opinion counts as much as a DK purists opinion. Just because I don't meet the high standards of and I'm not allowed into the elite inner circle of the online DK community doesn't mean my opinion should be dismissed. Especially when my opinion is shared by many of the competitive arcade players, from the 80's to today.

George your opinion counts as much as anyone elses. Just to clear things up, what exactly is your opinion? And what is the basis for this decision you have made?

Im pretty sure half this message was a troll but I will address it anyways. The high standards of the DK community are just having a love for the game and being active within the community. These arent high standards in my opinion.

As far as the inner circle, Ive heard the whole CAG community as a whole reffered to as something like this, not that I believe it. However, The Donkey Kong community has no inner circle. The 200K players have the best players in the world watching their streams and rooting them on nightly. We support anyone that plays Donkey Kong. We've had 20 people on a NES DKers stream one night just to show support. The DKF has really opened up a venue where the beginners and pros can all get together, share strategy, encouragement, and have a good time. There are no secrets in the DK community, unlike most CAG games every bit of high level strategy for DK is published and well known.

From 206K to 637K, these guys have been with me the whole way, helping me and encouraging me. I'm just a no name player from North Carolina and was taken in like a lifelong friend. I couldnt say enough good things about the DK community and DKForums.
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Offline Shane_NC

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Re: Richie's / TG's response to KO MAME debate
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2013, 07:20:37 pm »
MAME is for practice! That's my opinion, and I thought I had made that abundantly clear. What more justification do you want? I should explain why I think mame is for practice? We've been through this all so many times. There was a show on Sunday, Richie said what he thought, a bunch of other folks did too. That was that, case closed, no?


George... man what da.... you act like everyone has access to an arcade cabinet. This isnt true! For some people mame isnt for practice, mame is as close as they will ever get. These cabinets can costs upwards of 800-1000 dollars, then you gotta fight the wife/girlfriend to store it. I looked for 9 months every single day before I found 1 DK come up in my area for sale. 9 complete months to ever see a DK arcade in person...

Honestly, I wish you could put yourself in some of these players shoes.


God forbid any of our european players who will never ever EVER get to see a real dedicated DK cabinet. Mame isnt their practice.. MAME is their lifeblood
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 07:24:23 pm by Shane_NC »
HIGH SCORES:
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1-1: 11,300
Donkey Kong Junior MAME: 599,300 22-1 KS
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