Any Questions About the Kong Off 3?

[stella_blue]

So you're out of the loop for about three hours a day, Stella?  Then you haven't missed anything. Maybe half a conversation in the chat box, at most.

No, I'm out of the loop 95% of the time, mostly by choice:

• I'm not on Facebook, and have no intention of registering
• I check the shoutbox infrequently and have the "boing" sound muted, as I find it distracting
• I watch most Twitch TV streams in full screen mode, and never see much of the chat
• The aforementioned quality nap time

EDIT #1:  I wonder what % of my posts have absolutely nothing to do with the topic under which they appear.  Obviously, this is one of them.

EDIT #2:  It was nice to meet you at Funspot, George.  I was acting as Vincent's adult supervision for much of the afternoon.   

[ChrisP]

    George the scores at the KO2 should absolutely count. The point Svar and others are making that they wouldn't have BEEN able to play on those dedicated machines at KO2 because all they had were MAME scores at that time so they wouldn't HAVE those scores now. Vincent is also another player who would have been out because he had nothing but MAME scores as well IIRC.
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My feeling is that's one of the reasons *why* Richie switched to arcade-only: because he can now. It would have been an embarrassment to the first two KOs if Dean wasn't there, so Richie had to allow the concession for big MAME scores, but now that Dean (and Vincent, and Jeff) are on the arcade board, Richie doesn't need MAME anymore. Ross, Robbie, and Phil are great, but they're not absolute must-haves the way Dean was.

Richie is now the co-owner of TG and he has an investment in getting the best players and the best scores onto TG's DK arcade scoreboard. The Kong Off is a great way to incentivize that.

So, it's a different era, with different circumstances. One isn't within his rights to change a contest's rules once it has begun, but it's acceptable to do so *between* contests. Right now counts as "between contests." Richie can change the deal if he wants to. He ought to tell people in no uncertain terms what the deal IS (and ASAP), but it's his deal.

   They really need to say you have until xxx date to get the score as well (like say what Oct 1st or Oct 15th?) People have to pay a lot of money to travel and if I was sitting it 11th or 12th place I would definitely be concerned about what is happening and when will I KNOW if i'm in or do I have to play on Friday?

I mentioned the cutoff date earlier in the thread. It's October 25th. BIG BIG BIG!

[hchien]

The entry criteria was announced a few months ago.  I don't remember where but it was top 12 TG scores (presumably arcade only) on Oct 25.  Every year the issue of MAME scores comes up.  Richie is very anti MAME, but for the first 2 Kong Offs there were exceptions to the arcade only scores (Vincent and Dean for KO1 and Jeff and Dean for KO2).  I think by KO2 Dean had proven himself enough on arcade that it was impossible to exclude him even though he didn't have an official 1M on arcade.  I remember Richie asked Dean to come out to NJ before KO1 to prove his skills on arcade and it was very apparent that his skills translated.  As of now, this issue only affects 2 people (Phil and Robbie).  I have a feeling those 2 will be in the top 12 arcade come Nov.  So here's to hoping that it's not an issue at all.

BTW Robbie, getting Funspot to open their cabinet was very difficult as Gary Vincent was out of town at the time.  I was on the phone with Dave Nelson with the camera rolling and he told me who to get in touch with... even then it was not easy.

[ChrisP]

Frankly, having to open the Funspot cab is absurd, since the chain of custody on the board, controls, etc. begins and ends with the arcade, and that particular machine is (very) well known to be legit.

[Scoundrl]

Frankly, having to open the Funspot cab is absurd, since the chain of custody on the board, controls, etc. begins and ends with the arcade, and that particular machine is (very) well known to be legit.

Actually there are many fun spot scores in the database that are going to have to be removed due to improper settings. I agree the DK is pretty well known but rules is rules.

[danman123456]

Cool I missed the Oct 25th part!

[giv]

What Hank said. You are wrong to think it has anything to do with embarrassment, Chris. It is impossible to embarrass Richie, as far as I can tell. You are over-thinking this.

[hchien]

I forgot to add that this year is the first year that the cutoff is set by rank and not by score.  For KO1 you needed a LIVE 900K.  For KO2 you needed a CREDIBLE 1M.  This is important because with a fixed (limited) number of spots there is a higher potential for conflict.  In theory, 20 people could have qualified for the first 2 KO's.  This year is different.  If a MAME player (who is deemed qualified) is included in lieu of the 12th TG arcade score that person would probably get upset.  IMO, with a fixed # of spots, the inclusion criteria should be more objective and applied strictly.  The problem in this case is not everyone has equal access to a cabinet.  I don't think there is a perfect solution.

[ChrisP]

It is impossible to embarrass Richie, as far as I can tell. You are over-thinking this.

Overthinking is my thang.

Also: what Hank said.

[lakeman421]

I thought all we had to do was call or write a letter to submit a score?  No video needed.

[mikegmi2]

I would like to see TG, or the KO3 facebook page, give some mid point announcements of the current standings. Something like:

"Hey Guys, step up you game, only 60 days left to KO3 and here are the current standings, we're going into the final stretch, etc..."

If it's 100% official that the TG arcade scoreboard is the entry, then you could say just look at the TG scoreboard and there's your answer, but the most up to date scoreboard has me at 10th still, with Mike G, and Robbie still having scores to be approved. I would like to see the duplicate Steve Wiltshire's corrected.

http://www.twingalaxies.com/scoreboard/3852/2/22/

Just to keep everyone up to date, I spoke with Stephen Boyer and my 1,023,600 score has been verified as of last week.

Stephen said to be paitent for the time being, as he doesn't have the access yet to change the scoreboard himself...but once he does, it will be updated on a regular basis.

[mikegmi2]

IMO, with a fixed # of spots, the inclusion criteria should be more objective and applied strictly.

The problem in this case is not everyone has equal access to a cabinet.

There's a lot that lies within the word cabinet...

Richie is the definition of an arcade cabinet collector/hobbyist.  He takes the time to find old machines, transport them, strip them down, sand them, repaint them, rewire them, replace electrical components, install a new (old) monitor, buy new buttons, fix the control stick...etc.  There's a bit of extra time/effort that goes into being able to play a game on a real arcade cabinet...sometimes a LOT of extra effort/time.  Not to mention the cost of purchasing these machines...nor the fact that you can spend months sometimes trying to find one...and still come up empty handed...which as Hank pointed out, is also kinda part of the problem for people that can't locate a cabinet to play on.

For MAME, you download a rom in half a second, for free, and you're up and playing on any home computer.  Quite the shortcut...

And I don't mean to be Policeman Paul or Carl the Cop or anything, but unless you actually own an arcade cabinet...isn't playing DK on MAME technically illegal?  I don't see anyone from Nintendo joining forces with Lars Ulrich to come after you anytime soon, though...

The KO is an arcade competition, and MAME emulates arcade games.  If Twin Galaxies goes through all the trouble of getting 20 DK machines up and running...what would be the point of all that time/effort/cost if they allowed MAME scores? (during KO1 and KO2 they actually needed MAME scores to fill up a top 10-12, but that isn't the case anymore)

What if Twin Galaxies said, this is too hard, forget the cabinets, let's just get a bunch of computers and setup 20 MAME stations.  What would the arcade people do?  A few would probably be pretty bad at using a keyboard...and how would that make Twin Galaxies look? 

"Uh, so this is the Kong Off, the Donkey Kong arcade game competition...uhh, where are all the arcade games then...and what's with all the laptops?"

Does the answer lie somewhere in between?  Should they setup a MAME station for the MAME players that breach the top 12...and let them play on their own MAME computer all day?  I can already see what someone on an arcade machine would say about that..."hey that's unfair because this is timed and they can restart much faster than I can...", "hey using a keyboard is easier because you can change directions faster...", "hey they get to sit in a comfy computer chair while I have to stand up, or sit on this hard-as-a-rock wooden stool...".

Or, should all the points above be thrown out because it's not about arcade machines at all...this is simply about skill at the arcade version of the game Donkey Kong.  There are good arguments on both sides.

I don't know what the fair/right answer is...but I guess this is all moot because seems the decision has already been made.  Interesting points of discussion, though.

[LMDAVE]

Richie is a tradionalist when it comes to this, playing on the original game in it's most pure form to put up a score. I think the reason he  gave in and bent the rules for KO1 and KO2 is you couldn't fill a field of 10/12 that met the requirements, so he allowed the big MAME players. Now, you can fill a top 12 will all 1M+ arcade players. IT's not neccesarily the 'right' thing to do, but if MAME ends up getting in, the MAME player should have to play on an arcade machine and it is up to them to prepare for it. And Jeff shown that is a hard thing to do.

[corey.chambers]

To tell the truth, even if I got in the top 12 overall, I am not that good on a cab. I have a lot of practice, maybe even a year worth of practice get as good on cab as I am on MAME. Besides, I will not be playing on a cab until I get one million on MAME.

[Xermon54]

In my opinion, MAME players shall be judged at the same level as arcade gamers in term of score. MAME players have not only proven to be as good as arcade players, but to be even better on the arcade platform (even if they don't even play at all on arcade).

MAME is an incredibly huge part of the DK history since KoK, and it shall remain.