Robbie's 1.272

[DonkeyShlong]

But why would an old score require new rules?

You're right, I apologise for being illogical.  Onto the next bicker post.

[xelnia]

Thanks for your input everyone. Keep it coming. For reference, I've attached some screenshots of the claims Robbie has been making. Check the next post as well.

What a shining example you are for your DKF.

Bringing in screenshots of social media to feed and whip up animosity amongst other viewers, some of which have already made up their minds on the submission.
Truly pathetic..... 
You have rejected a perfectly legitimate score because you don't like a certain gamer and the friends he socialises with.

No wonder he wants nothing to do with you or your forum based on this infantile behaviour.

Well done.

If I wanted to reject Robbie's scores based on my personal opinion of him and his social circle, I could have started a long time ago. Those screenshots come from multiple sources, so they indicate a wider concern from the community about his behavior. If a player believes the score moderator is biased, then it seems necessary to get community input, regardless of how misplaced that belief is.

If you have something to add about my actual reasons for rejecting the score, I'm all ears.

[Perfectpacman]

Thanks for your input everyone. Keep it coming. For reference, I've attached some screenshots of the claims Robbie has been making. Check the next post as well.

What a shining example you are for your DKF.

Bringing in screenshots of social media to feed and whip up animosity amongst other viewers, some of which have already made up their minds on the submission.
Truly pathetic..... 
You have rejected a perfectly legitimate score because you don't like a certain gamer and the friends he socialises with.

No wonder he wants nothing to do with you or your forum based on this infantile behaviour.

Well done.

If I wanted to reject Robbie's scores based on my personal opinion of him and his social circle, I could have started a long time ago. Those screenshots come from multiple sources, so they indicate a wider concern from the community about his behavior. If a player believes the score moderator is biased, then it seems necessary to get community input, regardless of how misplaced that belief is.

If you have something to add about my actual reasons for rejecting the score, I'm all ears.

No thanks.
I think you've already demonstrated that with you at the helm, this ships going down.
With any luck, like all decent captains, you'll stay on the bridge.

[Kibbey93]

no sound no score 

[bensweeneyonbass]

No thanks.
I think you've already demonstrated that with you at the helm, this ships going down.
With any luck, like all decent captains, you'll stay on the bridge.

I'm personally happy you're so invested in the success of DKF. I mean hey you logged your first ever post here on this very thread. That shows a commitment to this forum that is literally unmatched by anyone else commenting here. Thanks for taking it so seriously. I would like to know how you're so sure of the Ship Going Down seeing as this discussion is still ongoing and several long time members have spoken up in support of this run being valid. You seem very combative and dismissive as if you WANT this score to be rejected. It's all very strange. But ok you can walk away from an opportunity to make your case. Call it out of your hands and proclaim Robbie a DKF martyr.

[homerwannabee]

It should be accepted because at the moment I'm not a believer that lower voltage gives an advantage.
You could be setting a precedent where ALL 1.2 million games will need a voltage meter.
Until voltage is conclusively proven to give an advantage I am against rejecting the score.

[johnbart]

Not even looking at all of the drama around voltages is there a reason given why there's no sound? Given that past submissions of his had sound I don't see why this one wouldn't have sound. Give the precedent for issues with sound with scores done on DDKs I think requiring sound is a reasonable expectation.

[dnickolas]

It should be accepted because at the moment I'm not a believer that lower voltage gives an advantage.
You could be setting a precedent where ALL 1.2 million games will need a voltage meter.
Until voltage is conclusively proven to give an advantage I am against rejecting the score.

The only person in the world that thinks the voltage affects anything is Robbie, so yeah there's no danger of that.

And I still think it's incredible that Tanner's "double ground" 21M was playable at all.

[xelnia]

I've split this discussion off into its own thread.

[SithOfSpades]

I think the score is valid and should be accepted.

[datagod]

Just out of curiosity, are people planning on moving this discussion to the actual Twin Galaxies adjudication thread? 
I said there that I am abstaining, only because of the sound issue. 

For the record I believe Robbie's theory that low voltages / temperature can affect the game.  I have been programming since 1981 and have worked with computers as my career since 1990.  I have seen strange behaviour with overheating chips.  In fact, back in college we learned about a virus that would disable a sensor in a very specific computer chip that would cause the fan to not turn on.  This lead the CPU to overheat, causing permanent damage.

I have also seen computers that needed to be modified after they were shipped because there was a place inside that would build up humidity and cause the computer to start displaying artifacts on the screen (random crap).  Every ICON computer that we had in our school had a 1/8 inch hole drilled on the top of the case to improve airflow.  Problem solved.

Because of strange hardware behaviour like that, I gave Todd Rogers the benefit of the doubt when it came to his claim of getting scores after thousands and thousands of attempts in a row. 

[antelope84]

my 2 cents:

1. I think the majority of us believe voltage to be a placebo effect , and do nothing outside of potentially causing the game to glitch in graphics (or not boot at all) if too low, and rather, be simply a motivation tool to those who believe that's the reason they are achieving the scores they did.
If anything, i feel it works in the opposite way - in that the player is NOT giving their own skill the credit it deserves for the score they achieved.. They achieved it, because they achieved it - not alteration of the psu...
I'd imagine a lot of cabs being used to submit scores, are probably running with weak 40 year old caps and components on their psus (just not intentionally)

2. I personally see (and rely on) the DKF score list as the most 'complete' and accurate source & collaboration of DK scores as a whole.
If the absence of sound is not a rule for authenticating a score for anyone - then I vote to accept his submission.

I think it would always be in the back of peoples minds when they see that score list that 'oh actually, that score was beaten (and had a verification at the end), but wasnt recognised/updated due to reasons 1,2,3 ' etc

3. My feelings (and hope) would be that if DKF now move to accept the score with open arms, that Robbie will see this to be the case, and truly hope that this action would further discourage any complaints he may have towards other players submissions (when the case in contrast, would be that his own score was not a 'perfect' example of a submission  / accepted with no audio, yet was accepted)


Not sure this helps, just my opinion.

And on another note, Xelnia, really appreciate the effort and time you put into all of this and can imagine the frustrations that come along with it.

[tilt]

my 2 cents:

1. I think the majority of us believe voltage to be a placebo effect , and do nothing outside of potentially causing the game to glitch in graphics (or not boot at all) if too low, and rather, be simply a motivation tool to those who believe that's the reason they are achieving the scores they did.
If anything, i feel it works in the opposite way - in that the player is NOT giving their own skill the credit it deserves for the score they achieved.. They achieved it, because they achieved it - not alteration of the psu...
I'd imagine a lot of cabs being used to submit scores, are probably running with weak 40 year old caps and components on their psus (just not intentionally)

2. I personally see (and rely on) the DKF score list as the most 'complete' and accurate source & collaboration of DK scores as a whole.
If the absence of sound is not a rule for authenticating a score for anyone - then I vote to accept his submission.

I think it would always be in the back of peoples minds when they see that score list that 'oh actually, that score was beaten (and had a verification at the end), but wasnt recognised/updated due to reasons 1,2,3 ' etc

3. My feelings (and hope) would be that if DKF now move to accept the score with open arms, that Robbie will see this to be the case, and truly hope that this action would further discourage any complaints he may have towards other players submissions (when the case in contrast, would be that his own score was not a 'perfect' example of a submission  / accepted with no audio, yet was accepted)


Not sure this helps, just my opinion.

And on another note, Xelnia, really appreciate the effort and time you put into all of this and can imagine the frustrations that come along with it.

Unfortunately, attempted murder is still attempted murder even if you accidentally bring a toy gun to the hit. We obviously aren't a legal entity, but it is a good basis. Robbie attempted to gain an unfair advantage compared to his previous scores through hardware modification, and made active changes in an attempt to further his better RNG theory. Regardless of whether these changes worked or not, that's how it is. Robbie's current cheating attempts do not change his history of WRs that were totally clean. That's why Billy's last legit score before the score debacle is still listed here, and Robbie's last WR is still listed as well.

I think people are truly missing the point here. Robbie's score was not rejected because the voltage changes do anything (they don't, and Jeremy acknowledges that). It also doesn't set a precedent that future scores need a voltage measurement because that's not even the point of the rejection. It was rejected because he was trying to cheat, justified by the lie that he believed everybody else was already cheating besides him. I don't speak for Jeremy, but Robbie, at the very least, would have to do a lot to come back from actively admitting to wanting to submit scores with an unfair advantage.

Just as an example for precedents, Corey Chambers was banned from TG for submitted a real run that he said in the comments was cheated just to get banned: https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/153539-Nintendo-Entertainment-System-Double-Dragon-NTSC-Points-521-890-Corey-Chambers

"Please reject this submission. I cheated by offering evidence that was not original. I spliced together the boot up seemlessly with the previous video that I did in order to make it look like it was all one recording. This is an example of how easy it is for anyone to do this. As a result of my cheating I formally request that all my scores be removed from the database and my account be restricted. Thank you for your co-operation."

[Snowflake]

my 2 cents:

1. I think the majority of us believe voltage to be a placebo effect , and do nothing outside of potentially causing the game to glitch in graphics (or not boot at all) if too low, and rather, be simply a motivation tool to those who believe that's the reason they are achieving the scores they did.
If anything, i feel it works in the opposite way - in that the player is NOT giving their own skill the credit it deserves for the score they achieved.. They achieved it, because they achieved it - not alteration of the psu...
I'd imagine a lot of cabs being used to submit scores, are probably running with weak 40 year old caps and components on their psus (just not intentionally)

2. I personally see (and rely on) the DKF score list as the most 'complete' and accurate source & collaboration of DK scores as a whole.
If the absence of sound is not a rule for authenticating a score for anyone - then I vote to accept his submission.

I think it would always be in the back of peoples minds when they see that score list that 'oh actually, that score was beaten (and had a verification at the end), but wasnt recognised/updated due to reasons 1,2,3 ' etc

3. My feelings (and hope) would be that if DKF now move to accept the score with open arms, that Robbie will see this to be the case, and truly hope that this action would further discourage any complaints he may have towards other players submissions (when the case in contrast, would be that his own score was not a 'perfect' example of a submission  / accepted with no audio, yet was accepted)


Not sure this helps, just my opinion.

And on another note, Xelnia, really appreciate the effort and time you put into all of this and can imagine the frustrations that come along with it.

Unfortunately, attempted murder is still attempted murder even if you accidentally bring a toy gun to the hit. We obviously aren't a legal entity, but it is a good basis. Robbie attempted to gain an unfair advantage compared to his previous scores through hardware modification, and made active changes in an attempt to further his better RNG theory. Regardless of whether these changes worked or not, that's how it is. Robbie's current cheating attempts do not change his history of WRs that were totally clean. That's why Billy's last legit score before the score debacle is still listed here, and Robbie's last WR is still listed as well.

I think people are truly missing the point here. Robbie's score was not rejected because the voltage changes do anything (they don't, and Jeremy acknowledges that). It also doesn't set a precedent that future scores need a voltage measurement because that's not even the point of the rejection. It was rejected because he was trying to cheat, justified by the lie that he believed everybody else was already cheating besides him. I don't speak for Jeremy, but Robbie, at the very least, would have to do a lot to come back from actively admitting to wanting to submit scores with an unfair advantage.

Just as an example for precedents, Corey Chambers was banned from TG for submitted a real run that he said in the comments was cheated just to get banned: https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/153539-Nintendo-Entertainment-System-Double-Dragon-NTSC-Points-521-890-Corey-Chambers

"Please reject this submission. I cheated by offering evidence that was not original. I spliced together the boot up seemlessly with the previous video that I did in order to make it look like it was all one recording. This is an example of how easy it is for anyone to do this. As a result of my cheating I formally request that all my scores be removed from the database and my account be restricted. Thank you for your co-operation."

ok let me prephase this with a few things. i know i'm really just a dkf observer not a member for all practical purposes, so you guys site you guys rule, also in general i respect you but i disagree with this a bit.

"attempted" doesnt apply to all cimres. there is no such thing as attempted speeding for example. funny side story a cop actualy pulled my buddy over for attempted running a stop sign and of course let him go. he was about to run the stop sign, saw the cop and slammed on the break, the cop realized he only stopped cause of him, didnt use the phrase "attempted running a light" but effectively called him on that and then had to let him go.  "attempted" crime matters because theres a fear for every attempt failed one might go through. as long as robbie is transparent about his attempts and they're ruled out as harmless then theres no danger of one slipping through

Also the corey situation is different, he falsified info. whether you believe he spliced (falsed evidence) or lied about the slice (false statement) there was false info given, someone who will give false info cant be trusted.

how far will the "he did something that makes no difference but he thought it would so its cheeat" mentality go?  If he says a prayer zeus believing zeus will bestow him will extra abilites, thats ridiculous, but if he honestly believes it will it count as cheating?  What if he buys some charmed bracelet that he believes give an advantage any other number of other ridiculous things that some people actually believe it. if he believes any of those nonsense will give him an advantage will that be grounds for rejection as well?

when someone breaks a rule but transparently lets everyone know they're breaking the rule, and is testing to see what the response, well, that happens alot.  I cant help but to think if someone in good standing did the exact same thing it would be viewed as a discussion point as opposed to a troll thread.

At tg i used a camera for a memory game, and made very clear i was doing it, got rejected, meanwhile to this day people still accept direct feed on memory games, but noone other than lexmark tried to accuse me of cheating there.  my point was to force a decision, either demand camera show no helping device like camera/pen and paper is used, or allow such aids.  There needed to be a decision, and to my annoyance there really wasnt other than, if you're honest about it its rejected, but anyone using direct feed is free to use pen and paper for memrooy games all they like. 

Is that where this will be headed? anyone that uses a voltmeter will be DQed for attempted cheating, but noone has to show the power supply meaning others can get away it if theyr'e not as honest as robbie?

anyway thats my take, you guys site, do as you like

[Rodden]

I think Robbie?s score is valid and should be accepted.