Donkey Kong High Score List General Discussion

[f_symbols]

"Billy Mitchel ALWAYS has a plan"

[Fast Eddie]

Allow me to make the following proposal. This is a newly created criteria list that should help the list not seem as relaxed. Let me know your thoughts.

Normative Rules: The Donkey Kong Community prides itself on its close connection to all the best players in the world. Because of this, it should be required that any scores posted to this high score list be done by the member who accomplished the score. This requires for the player to become a member of the DK Forum. All scores must be streamed live on Twitch, and their name should be added to the list of streamers so that all players may have ample opportunity to witness your scores. Your post to the forum will include your name, date, and a link to the broadcast. All scores achieved on an Arcade machine must be an original DK machine, the 3 in 1 machines being excluded. All scores achieved on MAME must be using WolfMAME, the only officially approved Arcade emulator of TwinGalaxies.

my cab is technically not an original dk machine, but all the important hardware is original except i use a non nintendo monitor/inverter board and my joystick is the mikesarcade nintendo repro, the cab is the size and shape of a dk cab but has some cosmetic differences, access door at front etc...i made a point of making sure my setup only had cosmetic differences and played exactly as original, even got the screen angle as close as i could to correct...

i did plan to submit to TG on this setup and i did expect the score to go through ok...but i guess what is acceptable as a non original cab can get complicated, e.g. can you just throw an original dk pcb in any random cab with a 4 way stick? i remember you couldnt get a straight answer to this from TG regarding dk or any other game...

 

[stella_blue]

The reality of the situation is that no set of rules will eliminate cheating.  Give me a week and I can stream a 1.2M MAME game on twitch.  With a little extra effort, I could even make it appear live.  Give me a month and I can alter my arcade ROMs to give me an advantage.  In the end we have to trust each other's integrity.

Absolutely.  I was thinking the same thing, Hank.  Using MAME, Fraps, VirtualDub, and a series of save states, an average player could edit together a seamless recording of a 1.1M first man killscreen.

Reprehensible, but not terribly difficult.

[ChrisP]

Also, it's been pointed out to me that the board being taken out is not a DK board but either a DDK or DK Jr. board, and replaced with a DK Jr. board.

Bingo...

[marky_d]

Holy crap, I never noticed that before. It definitely looks like a Junior board being replaced by a Junior board. Weird.

[Simpsons99]

does'nt seem like a double board set allso.

[Fast Eddie]

actually ill be dammed if its not the exact same board taken out and put back in... 

 

[stella_blue]

As a result of this clarifying information I will be adding Ben's score and will be removing Steve's. We have Ben's score verified now that fits the criteria with the following link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZdnYnZQMcg

Actually my true personal best is 923,300, achieved just before the KO2 cutoff date, which was a 1M pace score I goofed up close to the end (have the whole game plus pre-recording steps on tape).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WJ7VvY7kMQ

Not too shabby.  A couple of impressive scores behind those video links.

Both games were over 1M pace (Ben: 1.04M, Mike: 1.01M), and ended on Level 20 barrel boards (Ben: L20-5, Mike: L20-3).

The other thing I couldn't help but notice is that each player was remarkably composed after the final death.  Ben responded with a gasp and a sigh (understandable), while Mike had no discernible reaction (that I could detect).

I wonder how many of us would exercise similar restraint under those circumstances.

[ChrisP]

I wonder how many of us would exercise similar restraint under those circumstances.

To be fair, the games are "public." When I'm streaming, I take deaths, even decisive late-game deaths, a whole lot better than I do when I'm alone. The emotion hits me, but I break immediately to my embarrassment-prevention subroutine.

When nobody's watching all bets are off. I'll jump up and down, pound on my machine like a monkey, and ragequit after an L4 death.

[corey.chambers]

The question was "can you just throw an original dk pcb in any random cab with a 4 way stick?" Not having a cab myself I personally would not know all the parts of a cab. It makes sense that one could. I mean, as long as it is a four-way stick and it is a non-altered, original dk pcb ( I assume that is the board with the rom chips, etc) then I don't see how there can be any problem with scores that are generated in this manner to be considered a genuine Arcade score. Maybe someone else would need to chime in on the question if further clarifications are needed.

[John73]

The question was "can you just throw an original dk pcb in any random cab with a 4 way stick?" Not having a cab myself I personally would not know all the parts of a cab. It makes sense that one could. I mean, as long as it is a four-way stick and it is a non-altered, original dk pcb ( I assume that is the board with the rom chips, etc) then I don't see how there can be any problem with scores that are generated in this manner to be considered a genuine Arcade score. Maybe someone else would need to chime in on the question if further clarifications are needed.

If you are talking about TG verification then it used to be that afaik, it had to all be original - original cab, joystick, power supply, pcb.  Seemed like overkill to me, but there was paranoia about DK and it really never made sense to me.  Made submitting scores for anyone but the USA pretty difficult since in Australia anyway, all we got were the PCB's and the cabs were built here so they were never going to be original.

[emart756]

Eric Martin, 294,700. Here is the link to the VOD, http://www.twitch.tv/emart756/b/395808549 I re-recorded the .inp file. Score was done on 4/2/13. Thanks Corey!

[corey.chambers]

Thank you Eric for your submission. I see that you are already on our list of streamers. Good. Your video looks great. The score has been added. Congratulations and I personally look forward to your over 300,000 point accomplishments! I am sure that some of the improvements you have already made will enable you to achieve your goal.

P.S. I know that you will be streaming all your new scores, but just in case you or anyone else happens to have an inp file to play in the future I would recommend that you start the video with the MAME program open, so we can verify that it is WolfMAME, then show the properties of the inp to verify the date it was created, and then show the process of starting the inp. We had not discussed that particular when we last talked. I apologize for that. If it was a much higher score I would ask for higher verification and ask to have the video redone. [Just talking to myself]

[corey.chambers]

A great thanks to Hank and everyone for their thoughts concerning the inp playback and broadcasting on Twitch issues. Unfortunately, anyone could take an inp and submit it to TwinGalaxies, and no one would know it was not genuinely their own. One of the advantages I think to our community is that if someone does an inp play back, they will already be streaming on twitch, and if the score is being posted then they are already a member of the forum. This means that we will get to see them play live which will demonstrate that they actually have the level of play which was contained in the inp playback. The higher the score, the more likely we will want to get to know the player better through their live scores on Twitch. Any submissions that seem suspect for any reason can be temporarily suspended pending further investigation. One of the main goals as a DK Community is to become familiar with DK players. Both the use of the Forum and Twitch has enabled us to connect in incredible ways. I believe that it is this connection that we have which will enable us to sift through attempts to falsify a score. If we have known the player, they have posted before, we have seen them stream, the video or inp playback is consistent with their level of play, and we have become acquainted with them over time, then it will be much easier to accept the score and vouch for their character and skills. If someone unknown appears on the scene with a very high score, no one knows them, they have never submitted to TwinGalaxies before, and they are posting a high score, then we will obviously respond accordingly. One thing that I mention in the Auxiliary Rules is the following: "This process alone will not guarantee the acceptance of a score, but pending upon further investigation, especially for higher scores... Additionally, and most importantly, all scores on this list must be peer-reviewed in one manner or another. All scores which are being submitted according to the Auxiliary Rules will be handled on case by case bases and must be peer-reviewed, and a general consensus must be given by the DK Community that the score is probably genuine." The more obscure the situation, the more time and verification will be required, the more familiar we are, the easier it will be to consider it genuine.

As for people possibly altering rom chips etc... I have nothing to say at present. It would be the gravest of sins against the integrity of our community.

[mikegmi2]

Has anyone with an arcade machine ever taken an EEPROM dump of all of their ROMs and diff'd them with the known US Set 1 ROM data?

Richie and Jourdan actually did this for both Kong Offs.  Ironically Wag's machine was in the original KO and so it is one of the few scores performed on a ROM checked machine.

The reality of the situation is that no set of rules will eliminate cheating.  Give me a week and I can stream a 1.2M MAME game on twitch.  With a little extra effort, I could even make it appear live.  Give me a month and I can alter my arcade ROMs to give me an advantage.  In the end we have to trust each other's integrity.

Agreed, Hank.  That's why I think it's almost unnecessary to make up any sort of list of checks and balances for "accepting" a DK score as being legit...and omitting others.  From what I can see, and what I saw at the Kong Off 2, this is a community full of honest and trustworthy people.

What does a screen shot of a DK high score prove?  What does a full taped DK game prove?  What does a full taped DK game with pre and post verification prove?

They all prove the same thing, basically nothing.

It is on your honor.  You simply hope nobody would do something like edit their ROMs or edit their video.

A live score is the only real 100% undeniable form of proof.