Author Topic: Pole Position and how to get better  (Read 74803 times)

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Offline ChrisP

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #75 on: October 01, 2019, 08:14:17 pm »
omg.

I've been grinding Pole for a couple of months, so I'm hot for any news!
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7/26/2013   Coin 35,946   710,800   18-1
7/28/2013   Coin 35,947   903,700   22-1
8/16/2013   Coin 35,948   694,100   17-6
8/17/2013   Coin 35,949   893,100   22-1

3,201,700: the $1 World Record?
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Offline johnmcallister

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #76 on: October 08, 2019, 11:10:20 am »
Ok here it is the fastest time I have ever done.  This is without cars and it's still super hard to get a good time.  Now add cars and it just got even harder.  I think that it comes down to 2 key things.  The first turn after the start finish line, if you go below 230 or so you can kiss your game goodbye.  The hairpin turn doesn't seem to be as critical as the 1st turn but if you go off road too long or skid 1/10 of a second too long kiss it goodbye.  Still working on some numbers and such but this is what I'm coming up with.

We still have a few things to figure out like more about controlling the cars and where they are on the track.  In order to pass just a couple more cars isn't just all about time and speed, it also needs to take account of where you and they are on the road and if you can put them into better spots so that you can pass the pack of cars quicker.  Sometimes the cars clump together, 4 for lap 1, 5 for lap 2, and 6 for lap 3 and I'm really not sure about the last lap, working on other ideas to have noticed that yet.  Sometimes they spread out and in order for more cars to come out you have to pass the last car in a group before they start appearing again, not exactly but mostly.
 https://drive.google.com/open?id=190EZKOFlXcd4HAg9Guh4AMux6jHQ2Wzi

« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 11:31:24 am by johnmcallister »
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Offline danman123456

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #77 on: October 08, 2019, 07:40:22 pm »
Awesome thanks John. Basically again there is no way I believe they got those scores back then. Someone trying and trying and trying to get in the 212.99 range is ridiculous. This is like Missile Command all over. Someone will FINALLY do it and then "See told you they did". Yeah well they could have just DONE IT and shown someone a video anytime in the last oh I dunno 30 years. Daniels 67,010 is sweet and Richie mentioned he was in the 67k club as well in his youtube comments. You really think you are going to pass 3 more cars getting into the 213 range or someone have some MIRACLE 1 in a million run where they get 212.99? I just don't see it happening. Adding up best times EVER still is in the 213 range so you need the luck of the cars and that is entirely too random. What it shows is that you cannot drive in the 213 range at will. You would need to have EVERY run be in the 213 in order to get that miracle car total IMO. Daniel actually had a FASTER time than his 67k score but he passed TWO less cars. (213.34 was 66910 while 213.35 was 67010). Going 1 more second faster may get you only 1 more car most likely and you may not get ANY more cars. Heck what if you end up getting two less cars? So now your at 67,110?? Imagine that.  You have the run of your LIFE and you only get 67,110 or just 67,210. How long do you grind away to try and get 3 more magic cars to get that 67,360? Anyone here really thinksthey are going to put together 4 perfect laps WITH CARS and break 212.99? If you do then AMAZING and I'm happy for you but doesnt change my opinion at all about what happened in the past. I would love to see those scores knocked down tho. Keep grinding. If I get an opportunity to TAS this or even get a cabinet who knows PP is fun. Not sure I have the skills to actually do this but its fun.
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Offline yamnitz

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #78 on: October 13, 2019, 07:41:21 pm »
Ok, first, as one of the top 3 pole position players ever, they got those scores.  But that doesn't matter, everybody is totally entitled to their opinion.

Second.  Pole Position is an insanely hard game.  If I ask, can someone get the most possible points on the first screen of donkey kong over and over again, the answer is probably yes.  You only move a joystick and push a button.  It can be copied.  The controls of Pole Position are so fine that replicating exactly even the qualifying lap is impossible.  Let alone the actual race!  Put the car exactly, I mean exactly where it was on the previous attempt while keeping the speed at exactly the same, and finishing with exactly the same time is impossible...  Then a few of the cars move randomly throughout the entire game!   So a race can't be copied.. you just have to get good, really really good.   So asking someone to copy an entire race is completely impossible. 

Third.  The scoring isn't the same in every game either.  As was said, I got times within 1/100 of each other and passed 2 more cars in the slower race.. 67,010 for a time of 214.35 passing 140 cars...   but I also got a 66,810, with a time of 215.49 and passed 140 cars. So that is over a second slower and still passed 140 cars!   I wish I was their age when they played, they got to play all day every day, heck Mike worked at the arcade.  I try and get some playing time a few times a week.. no wonder they got so good! 

Keep up the good work Johnny!  The game is so perfect any information that can be added to figuring it out is extremely helpful!

Here's a video of my 52.03 2nd lap with cars in a real race.  Fastest real race 2nd lap ever on video.

I've only been playing since March of 2019 (this year)  and I'm still getting better every time!  Mike and Les took over a year to go from 66,710 to the records... I've been playing less than 8 months.  Takes time to get good at anything!

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Offline TheSunshineFund

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #79 on: October 13, 2019, 07:52:59 pm »
You only move a joystick and push a button.  It can be copied.

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Offline yamnitz

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #80 on: October 13, 2019, 09:12:07 pm »
You only move a joystick and push a button.  It can be copied.

 <popcorn>

Haha!  ok, I'll take the heat on that comparison, especially considering the forum lol.  How about a less 'random' game pacman etc.. my point is that poleposition is probably the game that is most impossible to copy a previous play due to the controls, or least forgiving anyways. If you make the tiniest of wrong moves in most games you can recover and still get max points etc..    If you rub a car on a corner you lose time that you can't ever get back. 
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Offline ChrisP

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #81 on: October 13, 2019, 11:37:56 pm »
Haha!  ok, I'll take the heat on that comparison, especially considering the forum lol.  How about a less 'random' game pacman etc..

No heat necessary, you backed off just in time.  ;D

my point is that poleposition is probably the game that is most impossible to copy a previous play due to the controls, or least forgiving anyways.

This is one of (several) reasons why MAME PP vs. arcade PP will always be very apples and oranges (not just the "phantom points" thing). I'm not even convinced that MAME renders the steering the same way - I've noticed that arcade players seem to be able to routinely make that first-corner turn which, at the same speed, seems to be impossible on MAME without skidding unless you touch the edge (though of course with MAME there are a thousand combinations of input device + analog settings, and one of those thousand combos might do the trick).

I've been intrigued by your setup/calibration in particular. I've watched all of your runs, and you nail that skid-free first turn every time!
http://donkeykongblog.blogspot.com

4 Quarters :-* - 800K Avg. Per Qtr. :o - No Restarts 8) - No Proof :'(

7/26/2013   Coin 35,946   710,800   18-1
7/28/2013   Coin 35,947   903,700   22-1
8/16/2013   Coin 35,948   694,100   17-6
8/17/2013   Coin 35,949   893,100   22-1

3,201,700: the $1 World Record?
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Offline johnmcallister

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #82 on: October 14, 2019, 01:47:03 pm »
Wow I wish I could do the lap times you have been putting up.  I really need access to a machine so that I can try to duplicate what you are doing.  You make it look so easy lap after lap.  If and when you tie the record we will take Mikes suggestion and petition TG to include a time so that you have the record.
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Offline yamnitz

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #83 on: October 14, 2019, 04:54:44 pm »
Wow I wish I could do the lap times you have been putting up.  I really need access to a machine so that I can try to duplicate what you are doing.  You make it look so easy lap after lap.  If and when you tie the record we will take Mikes suggestion and petition TG to include a time so that you have the record.

That would be cool for sure!  and Yes, I wish you could find a game or have access to one too. I'm sure with more practice you'd be up here too, no doubt. 

I agree about mame not running the game correctly.  I've seen it on my buddy's mame and it just feels off.

As far as the turns or my lap times, it is just practice.  But also learning from the practice.  How far you can dive into a turn, and where the apex is depending on the line you took so you know when to slightly let off so not to skid.  What makes this game so awesome and infuriating is that no matter how much you practice, where I'm at now, it doesn't matter unless you're practicing at wr speed.

It's like this, I can run 66.710 in my sleep now (29 time left), but getting a 30 time left is still hard, I only do like a couple every time I play.  The only way I get good practice is during one of the 30 time left runs.  The cars start appearing sooner and different patterns in the corners than if I'm going even 1 second slower.  So the practice on a 28 or 29 time left run doesn't apply to a 30 or 31 time left run.   ex. where I'm stuck now.  Hairpin on lap 3... on a 29 run, I can usually slide in just behind the 2 lead cars in that pack, no problem.. but If I have great laps and I'm on a 30-31 run, when I get to that hairpin I will run right into the lead cars, they are just a little sooner in the turn.  If I avoid them by cutting the corner more, or going outside on the slide I lose way too much time... so there has to be a way to get them more spread out.  Something I'm doing up to that point is usually putting them side by side.. I'm working on seeing what affect some changes have to that.  But again I can only try it when I have crazy good laps.  Frustrating! 

Anyways, I'm glad I can write about this stuff here, my wife still isn't a huge fan of discussing pole position strategy believe it or not  ;D ;D ;D
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Offline Mitch Mitchell

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #84 on: October 14, 2019, 05:27:37 pm »
Love the strategy and specifics here, also its interesting the turns are programmed at an angle i believe like nascar tracks but the game displays a flat horizontal track cross section.

Very interesting game, my PP2 cab needs a bunch of work, im deconverting it from a switching power mod someone did so i can use the ARII's for sound again; hoping i figure it out so i can play PP at home not just the local arcade.
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Offline johnmcallister

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #85 on: October 26, 2019, 01:29:30 pm »
I came across 2 Namco PP boardsets the other day, looking forward to fixing them if need be and then playing them. 
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Offline yamnitz

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #86 on: November 03, 2019, 01:25:57 pm »
I came across 2 Namco PP boardsets the other day, looking forward to fixing them if need be and then playing them.
 

That's awesome you found some!  I've been keeping my eye out and haven't seen any.  Would be cool to play a namco board someday. 
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Offline yamnitz

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #87 on: November 03, 2019, 01:46:24 pm »
I can't believe how close I am... and yet so freaking Stuck on lap 3 at the same time. 

Ran this today 214.21   (Need 214.00 or lower to be in the wr zone)

1st lap: 55.82         (fastest ever 55.70)
2nd lap: 52.17         (fastest ever 52.02)
3rd lap: 52.99          (fastest ever 52.35)
4th lap: 52.83         (fastest ever 52.71)

I'm getting better times on the last lap where the stupid computer slows your car down than on the 3rd lap!  Can Not Figure It OUT!  The trouble spot is the right turn before the hairpin.. and the hairpin.  Something I'm doing during the beginning of lap 3 up to that point is putting almost all the cars on the inside of that turn like over 90% of the time.   I can't get to the inside.. which kills my time.. and if I don't get inside there, then the cars in the hairpin are side by side which also kills time and my car.  If I can just figure out how to at least even them out, get a few on the left, I can make the inside.  I'm thinking it has to do with the first turn of lap 3.  That's the 2nd tightest turn on the track and cars move around depending on how you take that first turn.   Just venting.. good news is I'm running the first 2 laps at WR speed fairly regularly.  If I can get this 3rd lap thing down, I'm gonna have a shot. 
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Offline yamnitz

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #88 on: November 09, 2019, 08:23:41 am »
Got another 67k.  Tons of mistakes, but decided to keep this one.  No 10 extra points either..

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Offline yamnitz

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Re: Pole Position and how to get better
« Reply #89 on: November 15, 2019, 06:02:16 am »
Finally ran my first 213 last night!  Got 67,160 and Barely squeaked in with a 213.97  Bad news I only passed 139 cars.  On the high score board you can see I passed 140 going a full second slower.  Just happened to not have the good starting pattern with the cars closer together at the beginning.  Now that I've broken through the barrier, I'm sure I can run some more 213.xx games.  Gonna take some time, but this might actually happen!  It is funny at the end of the race my wife and daughter run down thinking I got the record lol.  Not yet...

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