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Offline Svavar

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How high can you get?
« on: March 26, 2013, 07:56:06 am »
I've been interested in knowing exactly how high the top players could get with the kill screen fixed and if anyone has actually given it a shot. Obviously without the kill screen the game could be played for a much longer time and without point pressing. Maybe this thought is a bit of blasphemy haha, but I'm still interested. Is it possible to find a rom somewhere with the kill screen fixed?
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Fast Eddie

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Re: How high can you get?
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2013, 08:21:07 am »
yeah theres details of how to do it here: http://www.donhodges.com/how_high_can_you_get.htm

i made one with a free hex editor its pretty straightforward for mame but would be tricky for arcade, i can share it when im home if you like...

i havent really played it but id say the target score for it would be steve sanders 3.??million 'record', pretty big ask!

 8)
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Offline stella_blue

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Re: How high can you get?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2013, 09:24:19 am »

In a game with no killscreen, I'll estimate that the DK world record would fall somewhere in the 2.5m to 3.2m range.

My estimate is really just a guess, based on:
  • the fact that "first man" killscreens have already been achieved
  • the assumption, perhaps incorrect, that the top players are capable of reaching the killscreen in 30-50% of their games, if just running boards

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Offline marky_d

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Re: How high can you get?
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2013, 10:17:45 am »
I think those are good estimates. Some unfortunate randomness will do in your lives eventually, running boards or not...and the fatigue factor is a concern. I'm suprised no one has tried this just to see what they could get...maybe beat the "Sanders Score"?  ;D
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Fast Eddie

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Re: How high can you get?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2013, 11:14:01 am »
pm me your email if you want it...

 8)
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Offline ChrisP

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Re: How high can you get?
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2013, 01:23:08 pm »
The record on a kill screen-less DK would probably be lower than people might expect.

I'm thinking 2 million or so.

Screwings on rivets/conveyors, and from difficult fireballs on barrels (even on top-hammer only runs) are inevitable, and it wouldn't take too long for four of them to add up. DK is just not a marathonable game.

Think of it this way: how often do even the best players have one or more lives to cash in before the kill screen? Then consider how and on what screens they lose their lives. The tendency is to assume that a higher-pace player loses all his lives due to the additional risk on the barrels, but how often is that actually the case, in practice? Even the best players die plenty often due to screwings while running boards.

It's just gonna be really hard to put together more than a couple hundred screens that have fewer than four "incidents."
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Offline LMDAVE

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Re: How high can you get?
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2013, 01:38:05 pm »
Quote from: ChrisP on March 26, 2013, 01:23:08 pm
The record on a kill screen-less DK would probably be lower than people might expect.

I'm thinking 2 million or so.

Screwings on rivets/conveyors, and from difficult fireballs on barrels (even on top-hammer only runs) are inevitable, and it wouldn't take too long for four of them to add up. DK is just not a marathonable game.

Think of it this way: how often do even the best players have one or more lives to cash in before the kill screen? Then consider how and on what screens they lose their lives. The tendency is to assume that a higher-pace player loses all his lives due to the additional risk on the barrels, but how often is that actually the case, in practice? Even the best players die plenty often due to screwings while running boards.

It's just gonna be really hard to put together more than a couple hundred screens that have fewer than four "incidents."

I agree with this, in fact, I'd place it even lower. Let's say a killscreen without doing anything crazy is 900K, to get 1.8M (on this new variation) would be the equivalent of someone doing two back-to-back 900K killscreens with getting to the killscreen with only 2-deaths one game and your 2nd death on the second game being at 900K. Without any restarts inbetween.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 01:46:49 pm by LMDAVE »
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Offline ChrisP

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Re: How high can you get?
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2013, 02:56:27 pm »
It's funny how the kill screen totally makes the game.

If there were no kill screen, there would be no reason to point press or to develop the skills to do it. You'd just run boards until you got unlucky 4 times. The kill screen forces you to learn everything about the game and max out your ability.

Where it happens also works out really well. At L22, it's deep enough in there that it takes hours and a lot of skill to get to, and you need a certain amount of luck. Yet there aren't so many boards that you need rare, silly luck.

It also just happens to be in a spot where it's possible to roll the score (plus a little further), yet you have to put in a special effort to do so.

The kill screen is the masterstroke of the game's creation, yet it's a total accident. They really couldn't have designed a better "feature" (or picked a better spot in the game to hide it) if they tried!
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4 Quarters :-* - 800K Avg. Per Qtr. :o - No Restarts 8) - No Proof :'(
7/26/2013   Coin 35,946   710,800   18-1
7/28/2013   Coin 35,947   903,700   22-1
8/16/2013   Coin 35,948   694,100   17-6
8/17/2013   Coin 35,949   893,100   22-1

3,201,700: the $1 World Record?
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Offline stella_blue

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Re: How high can you get?
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2013, 03:01:57 pm »
Quote from: ChrisP on March 26, 2013, 02:56:27 pm
It's funny how the kill screen totally makes the game.

If there were no kill screen, there would be no reason to point press or to develop the skills to do it. You'd just run boards until you got unlucky 4 times. The kill screen forces you to learn everything about the game and max out your ability.

Where it happens also works out really well. At L22, it's deep enough in there that it takes hours and a lot of skill to get to, and you need a certain amount of luck. Yet there aren't so many boards that you need rare, silly luck.

It also just happens to be in a spot where it's possible to roll the score (plus a little further), yet you have to put in a special effort to do so.

The kill screen is the masterstroke of the game's creation, yet it's a total accident. They really couldn't have designed a better "feature" (or picked a better spot in the game to hide it) if they tried!

I agree completely, and couldn't have said it any better.


EDIT:  The only bug in the game I'd actually like to see fixed is that "800" sprite that shows up on the barrel boards whenever you jump over/near 3 (or more) enemy objects.

« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 03:11:26 pm by stella_blue »
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Offline mikegmi2

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Re: How high can you get?
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2013, 06:14:28 am »
Quote from: ChrisP on March 26, 2013, 02:56:27 pm
It's funny how the kill screen totally makes the game.

If there were no kill screen, there would be no reason to point press or to develop the skills to do it. You'd just run boards until you got unlucky 4 times. The kill screen forces you to learn everything about the game and max out your ability.

Where it happens also works out really well. At L22, it's deep enough in there that it takes hours and a lot of skill to get to, and you need a certain amount of luck. Yet there aren't so many boards that you need rare, silly luck.

It also just happens to be in a spot where it's possible to roll the score (plus a little further), yet you have to put in a special effort to do so.

The kill screen is the masterstroke of the game's creation, yet it's a total accident. They really couldn't have designed a better "feature" (or picked a better spot in the game to hide it) if they tried!

I've always thought the exact same thing.  It's almost scary how perfectly placed the kill screen is...and supposedly it's nothing more than an overlooked bug. 
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