Wildcard Rematch #2 Scoreboard

[up2ng]

I'll throw in my two cents.

I agree that this is all about semantics regarding what we think a word means which was invented by our own community.  To me, it all comes down to what do we think people meant by this term back in the early 2000's or before -- when the term was first "widely" used, and when it became a more mainstream term by its usage in the KOK movie.  In other words, what did THEY mean when they used the word (or phrase) "killscreen" (or "kill screen") in the movie?

"Hey, there's a potential Donkey Kong kill screen coming up if anyone's interested..."

In my opinion, if you really think about what those guys were saying in the movie when they said "kill screen", it simply means "the screen on which you are killed".  So, the kill screen is screen 22-1.

With that being said, Ken's points are well taken.  I will agree that in order to "get to the end of the game", or to "beat the game", you need to play until you are killed by the Timer bug.  (In my opinion, having any one of your men killed in this manner qualifies as beating the game.)  Having a list such as "Official, unofficial list of kill screen players" creates sort of a gray area and should simply be qualified specifically by the list creator -- are we recognizing all players who have reached 22-1 or are we recognizing all players who have reached the end of the game?  Again, in my opinion, these two things are not the same.  I suppose if there exists any players who have reached 22-1 and who have NEVER reached the end of the game on ANY of their games ever, perhaps they could be included on such a list with an asterik which explains that this person did not reach the end of the game.  I dunno.

So, yes, these are two different things.  But I believe that the term kill screen refers to screen 22-1.

[ChrisP]

Thread won't be complete until we get Cat's opinion.

[mikegmi2]

Also, something else to think about: If the killscreen were instead because of a giant wall of spikes in front of Pauline's ladder would the player be required to die by jumping into the wall of spikes? What if the wall of spikes was invisible? What is the difference between that and death by timeout on the real killscreen?

This is a what if and not a real situation and has no significance whatsoever.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe your opinion on the matter has come from the fact that you have a notion of what a killscreen is in general and you've applied that notion to donkey kong to decide what the true killscreen of donkey kong is. If this is the case, then to better understand and evaluate that notion I would find it extremely helpful to have it applied to other games as well as hypothetical killscreens such as the one I described.

Dying and being killed by the game are the same thing.

Thats not true, one you have control over and one you do not. This is at the heart of the issue and cannot be overlooked, minimized or skirted around with cleverly worded analogies that are not accurate representations of the situation.

Okay, so what you mean to say is that the deciding factor is: "When the player died were they in control or were they not in control of their death". That is a little better but I'm still confused at what you mean by control. If I jump up and land on a barrel, then you could say that I was not in control because for every frame that I was in the air there was nothing I could do to avoid the death. Also, death by timeout can be delayed by jumping up in the air so is the player then required to jump up in the air right before timing out, because otherwise they were still in control and could have survived longer by jumping (assuming they weren't carrying the hammer)?

Good point Jeff.

If Ken's whole argument is that you must play until the very end...or you didn't make it to the killscreen, then yea, now we need to jump in the air to extend the length of the game for another second, because otherwise you were still in control when you died...and you could have avoided your death by jumping and lasting for another second...right?

So, nobody has killscreened Donkey Kong.  Wow.  Mind blown.

Thinking ahead...we will need someone to work on a simple "killscreen timer" that beeps to let you know when you need to jump in the air to extend the game another second to reach the killscreen.

Even further thinking...will using said timing device that beeps disqualify a killscreen?  Will you need to memorize the timing of when the killscreen bug kicks in...and jump from memory to reach a killscreen?

Maybe we should move this debate to another thread.  "Killscreen Bug Beeping Timer Assisting Devices - Yay or Nay?"

[mikegmi2]

You know, what if someone did jump and extend the game another second...what would happen?

Would the bug be canceled out?

Would you be allowed to continue and finish the killsc...22-1?

Then what would happen on 22-2? Same bug, you'd have to use the beeping timer thing on every stage after that?

Maybe we are onto something here...probably not, but maybe?

If nothing else, like Billy once said when talking about his ongoing $100,000 bounty for anyone that can pass the split screen, "The truth is I'd be happy about it. Even if I had to give up my own score. I wouldn't even mind paying the bouty. Because that would only mean that there's something new to experience about Pac-Man. And who wouldn't pay $100,000 for that?"

Maybe nobody knows where the end of Donkey Kong truly is?

Perhaps nobody has killscreened, or screenkilled Donkey Kong yet.

[mikegmi2]

To quote Ben Affleck in Goodwill Hunting, I say to Ken "How do you like me now?!"

That's almost as epic a FAIL as reaching 22-1 and not getting a killscreen!

It was Matt Damon as Will who said... "Do you like apples?" and Clark says "Yeah" then Will says "Well, I got her number. How do you like them apples?"

Good Will Hunting- Apples

Just to keep everything on the up and up, Ben Affleck does say, "How do you like me now!", in the movie. He says it right after Will gets done embarrassing the pony tail guy with his history book quotes.

So I'm not sure why the 'apples' quote was brought up.

[marky_d]

...we need to jump in the air to extend the length of the game for another second, because otherwise you were still in control when you died...and you could have avoided your death by jumping and lasting for another second...right?

With this in mind, if there is ever a Crazy Kong killscreen bounty put up someone better be very explicit about the rules. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I think that you can "warp" to the next screen when you are on 'the screen that contains the timer bug'. The next screen also has the timer bug, but you can warp to get there.

Also, when the next Crap Tourney starts up and Bill puts up a bounty for the first Donkey Kong Jr (Moon Cresta Hardware) killscreen, that it is understood that no one knows when the killscreen occurs, or if one even exists. It is conventional wisdom in the Donkey Kong Jr (Moon Cresta Hardware) playing community that the "killscreen" occurs at L5-4. This is definitely not the case.

[Fast Eddie]

im sure youd die as soon as you hit the deck Mike. i made a no killscreen rom for mame, havent played past the killscreen but i understand the levels stop incrementing at 99 but the game just keeps going...

 

[Scoundrl]

To quote Ben Affleck in Goodwill Hunting, I say to Ken "How do you like me now?!"

That's almost as epic a FAIL as reaching 22-1 and not getting a killscreen!

It was Matt Damon as Will who said... "Do you like apples?" and Clark says "Yeah" then Will says "Well, I got her number. How do you like them apples?"

Good Will Hunting- Apples

Just to keep everything on the up and up, Ben Affleck does say, "How do you like me now!", in the movie. He says it right after Will gets done embarrassing the pony tail guy with his history book quotes.

So I'm not sure why the 'apples' quote was brought up.

EPIC face palm. I actually rewatched that scene before I posted that but stopped when the pony tale dude walked away missing Bens 'How do you like me now?!" by a second or two.  Sorry George.

Guess I should have waited until the actual end of the scene (the killscene??) so I didnt look like such a dumbass...