What Took You So Long?

[ChrisP]

Yea, I felt foolish for not recognizing how the fireballs behave in D2K

There were several things in both DK and D2K that made me facepalm when I finally got around to noticing them.

This thread is about those things.

Here are a few of my examples:

I had actually kill-screened the game before I even became conscious of the fact that you could vertical-jump two adjacent barrels. It seems like a rookie fundamental but it was one of many things that a player can go far and get away with not knowing, and I did. Somewhere far back in my learning I had decided that you always had to forward-jump barrel combos unless their pixels overlapped by a third or more, and just never questioned it again.

Even after seeing players do it, I would quickly forget about it, not realizing how important it really was, and how many lives I would save once I finally started recognizing/putting it into practice.

I actually STILL struggle with it. I have to remind myself constantly that this or that combo is safe to  vertical-jump. One time Hank was watching me stream, I was at million-plus pace, I lost a last man on a needless forward-jump, and he said "why didn't you just vertical jump?" I didn't have a good answer.

A couple other things that took me longer than they should have:
- That the conveyor switches directions when Kong hits the edge
- That you can't die from a timeout while in the air (thanks Ben!)
- Mentioned in another thread: that after L2 in D2K, DK doesn't throw any blue barrels except the first

I'll see if I can think of more. What are your "I can't believe I didn't notice that before"s?

[marinomitch13]

Another one is realizing that you can steer barrels multiple levels above you. It takes a while before people can slowly 'remove the blinders' of only watching the portion of the screen with Jumpman in it and start first seeing the girder above them, and then, finally, all the girders above them. I spend very little time actually watching Jumpman unless I need to be very precise on a specific jump or trying to get to a ladder.

In all actuality, just SDTBL isn't always enough; it just gets you out of more immediate binds. Learning how to steer/not steer every barrel on the board to your advantage is the ultimate ideal.

[VON]

I had already killscreened DK before I recognized only 500 points are awarded for the jumping of three objects.  It wasn't until I started learning about point-pressing that I realized how bad the game cheats.

[marinomitch13]

I know some people also didn't know about the wall jumps from the top two rivet platforms until Ross did them at the first wildcard rematch. That's funny, cuz, when I first started playing DK, almost immediately after I first did a wall jump to grab the left rivet hammer that was one of the next things my curiosity made me test.

[ChrisP]

Speaking of rivets, the tactic Dean uses at the end of his 1.16 game blew my mind when I first saw it (where he was pinned next to Kong, waited for the climbing firefox, and then jumped over the firefox and shot down the ladder). I remember thinking "wow, what a brilliant improvisation!"

Nowadays that move has become practically routine for me! I didn't realize how executable it was, how often it would come in handy, and how high the success rate actually is. I would have saved a lot of games if I'd picked that up earlier.

People say that DK is "solved," but I don't think that's true. I feel like there are actually many tactics yet to be discovered, and a lot of "right answers" that aren't actually right (I also feel like most of the discovery yet to be made is on the rivets, which is one of the reasons I consider it the most interesting screen).

[Fast Eddie]

lol, you dont time out in the air...so dam obvious once someone points it out!

been playing a long time and i still forgo the customary jump when clearing the last rivet deep in the zero *facepalm*...

 

[VON]

Here's a video that features a few tricks that some may still not know about.  I put this together back in 2008 so it's a bit outdated.  There are a million more tricks and tactics to feature so maybe someday I will throw together "Goofing About #2".

[stella_blue]

A couple other things that took me longer than they should have:
- That the conveyor switches directions when Kong hits the edge
- That you can't die from a timeout while in the air (thanks Ben!)
- Mentioned in another thread: that after L2 in D2K, DK doesn't throw any blue barrels except the first

I'll be honest.  As the late Johnny Carson used to say, "I did not know that."

I've always cleared the final rivet by jumping, rather than running over it.  It's mainly a stylistic thing, a personal signature to punctuate the end of the stage.  It's nice to know there's a sound tactical basis for doing so.

[stella_blue]

Speaking of rivets, the tactic Dean uses at the end of his 1.16 game blew my mind when I first saw it (where he was pinned next to Kong, waited for the climbing firefox, and then jumped over the firefox and shot down the ladder). I remember thinking "wow, what a brilliant improvisation!"

Nowadays that move has become practically routine for me! I didn't realize how executable it was, how often it would come in handy, and how high the success rate actually is. I would have saved a lot of games if I'd picked that up earlier.

I've been using that move in recent months, although I'd estimate that my survival rate is only about 60%.  On the Level 1 and 2 rivet stages, I'll continue the foot jumping routine with 2 firefoxes on the right side of the screen, knowing full well that I might have to use it.  But on Level 3 and beyond, I view it as a last resort, if I find myself trapped.  I'd rather end a taunting session prematurely and sacrifice a few points now, in exchange for the opportunity to rack up more points later.

[marinomitch13]

Here are a couple other tricks I thought of:

-You can leech barrels rolling down a ladder *without* having to hold left or right (you just have to be super close, kinda like how you can also leech kong without using the joystick)
-It's tough to describe, but you can actually 'hide' between the base of the  the inside-top-right ladder and the rivet hole from a fireball that is descending the ladder; then, as it first heads to the left, you have a chance to quick run up the ladder to clear the last rivet (assuming the top right rivet is the only one left). I had to use this once because I didn't wanna risk jumping across the rivet hole and landing on a fireball that was over there, and I didn't have time left to retreat to the left if the fireball came down. When I discovered this I was amazed.

[ChrisP]

Actually maybe I should take the timeout thing off of the "obvious" list. It's not exactly the most straightforward thing.

If anyone wants to test this, get the timer to "0" and start rapid-jumping. Note that you will always freeze and die on the "land" animation (or at least never in the air, in any case).

[gstrain]

Here's a video that features a few tricks that some may still not know about.  I put this together back in 2008 so it's a bit outdated.  There are a million more tricks and tactics to feature so maybe someday I will throw together "Goofing About #2".

Thanks for reposting this Ross!  I forgot how amazing this video was.  When you first put it together it really opened my eyes up to how cool DK could actually be (and how good you were at it).

[stella_blue]

Here are a couple other tricks I thought of:

-You can leech barrels rolling down a ladder *without* having to hold left or right (you just have to be super close, kinda like how you can also leech kong without using the joystick)
-It's tough to describe, but you can actually 'hide' between the base of the  the inside-top-right ladder and the rivet hole from a fireball that is descending the ladder; then, as it first heads to the left, you have a chance to quick run up the ladder to clear the last rivet (assuming the top right rivet is the only one left). I had to use this once because I didn't wanna risk jumping across the rivet hole and landing on a fireball that was over there, and I didn't have time left to retreat to the left if the fireball came down. When I discovered this I was amazed.

I had to read that second trick 3 or 4 times, but I think I know what you mean, Mitch.  I tried to set it up on Level 1-2 just a few moments ago.  I didn't succeed, but my 3-story plunge through the rivet gap earned me an average score of 9.85 from the international judges.   

On my second attempt, the firefox reached across the gap and tasered me.  Important safety tip:  don't position yourself for this move while the fire object is on the same girder.

My third attempt also ended in death, this time by the firefox descending the ladder.  The trick seems to require "pixel perfect positioning" (or "PPP", if inducted into the DK Acronyms thread at a future date).

[ChrisP]

There are actually a lot of "hail mary" moves that can be executed on the rivets. "The situation is hopeless unless I try something and it works." Such tactics start to reveal themselves when you play a lot of no-hammer. 

DK players are trained to approach situations in such a way as to inoculate themselves totally from the possibility of death (for obvious reasons since 4 lives are so precious and scant), but there's a whole playbook of "when all else fails..." stuff where you have a 25% or greater chance of dying, but you at least have a fighting chance (as opposed to a "whatever, I'm just going to panic and die" chance). None of it is as well-known because it's not talked about as much, and is far harder to set up and practice.

[stella_blue]

Here's a video that features a few tricks that some may still not know about.  I put this together back in 2008 so it's a bit outdated.  There are a million more tricks and tactics to feature so maybe someday I will throw together "Goofing About #2".

I've always loved that video.  I appreciate not only the skills needed to execute many of those techniques, but also the innovative thought process required to conceptualize them in the first place.

That video was my introduction to the top shelf jump on the elevator stage.  I have since performed it successfully many times.

It was also my first look at the oil can jump on the conveyor stage.  I have performed that one successfully -- wait for it -- exactly zero times.

If you do put together a "Goofing About #2" sequel, might I suggest working the "Sabre Dance" into the accompanying soundtrack?


Sabre Dance