Crazy kong ladder cheat??

[Monstabonza]

After taking up this game 4 days,
I have been wondering what people's thoughts on the ladder glitch are.
I personally try to avoid it at all costs, but have unintentionally done it once or twice in a game,
And had 1 point where it was my only option, I would have died but it was my last man so I thought what the hell.
Anyway what's the general thoughts on using this?

[ChrisP]

I am in full support of allowing the ladder cheat in CK, DK Japan, and US Set 2 (as well as the level-skip on the barrel boards in the applicable games/versions).

The ladder cheat can occasionally be useful to escape the occasional unfortunate barrel combo, but will not give a point-presser much if any advantage, and competitive Kong is ultimately about  point-pressing.

The move will and does allow novices/intermediate players to survive longer (which is why it was corrected in the first place), but those playing at an expert level are good enough on barrels that they'd rarely need it in order to survive (especially on Crazy Kong, where only 4 barrels at a time can be on the screen). If anything, hanging around on ladders wouldn't do anything for a strong player but keep him from getting more points.

(Of course, having said that, I'm already imagining spots in which one could integrate the ladder cheat on barrel boards in such a way as to point press them more aggressively, so I'll have to experiment later...)

As for the level skip cheat, I support it fully on any barrel board, and certainly on 22-1, and I don't think TG ever should have had a rule against it. That move carries such a high degree of risk that I could hardly call it a "cheat" at all. It's actually more risky to use it than it is to just clear the board normally, and doing it leaves a ton of points on the table, so you're not getting an advantage scorewise (except for the extra L22 boards, which you deserve if you can pull off the jump). In any case, executing it correctly, on demand, requires a high level of precision, and you're either right or you're dead, so if somebody wants to do it, they should be allowed to.

[VON]

It's possible to use both the "ladder cheat" and the "board skipping cheat" to point-press more efficiently.  Actually, the board skipping cheat, along with the top hammer grab, is something hard core Crazy Kongers will have to master if they ever want to truly max this game out.

We could probably get TG to change their CK rules, but until then, just ignore them.  The rule against the board skipping cheat literally prevents players from playing the game at the highest possible level.  It was not well thought out, or at least, it was put in place by someone who lacked enough familiarity with the game to make such a judgment.

[ChrisP]

Yeah, my post seems a little self-contradictory in that I started to realize, as I was writing it, that maybe the ladder cheat actually COULD be exploited as a way of gaining more points. I don't know how yet, but hmm, that planted a seed!

I guess I would explain it this way: for novice to intermediate players, the ladder cheat functions as a "defensive" (survival) maneuver, whereas an expert player could wield it skillfully, as an "offensive" (point-maximization) maneuver.

So while allowing it would help less-than-expert players get better scores simply because they will survive more boards, outlawing it might, as Ross said, keep experts from maximizing the game's scoring potential.

I like when threads like this force me to think about things.

[_Zaphod_]

BTW, here is what use the skip cheat is in point-pressing CK.

Since the timer is still tied to the barrels, and there's only four of them at once, it's better to after using the top hammer, go back DOWN so you can group the limited barrels together and jump them until the timer hits zero, at which point you will then do the skip cheat.

[danman123456]

The hammer drop should be allowed as well. I mean anyone can do it and its not infinite so why is it even outlawed again? Every stage has a timer so honestly I am confused why its not allowed. Its not 100% and even if you think you have it dead on you can die so its super risky.

[f_symbols]

I'm not sure how many of you watched phil tudose's 700k+ CK attempts;  they involved copious barrel point pressing as well as the hammer drop on all pie factories, including induced respawns of pies on the lower conveyor...

Pressin dem barrels:

Step 1:  Take bottom hammer to kill trolling fireball and Ideally the first "blue barrel" (no time for more fire trollery)
Step 2:  Climb up top and take the top hammer
Step 3: go back down 1 girder and start grouping the 4 barrels together (with the use of the "ladder glitch" as well as the inherent nature of barrels to linger on the edges of the screen while you are descending ladders before forcing them to roll back onto the girder)
Step 4: Climb down and jump your group of barrels (either 2 or 3) and attempt to incorporate the others using the "edge linger" and also use the "ladder cheat" technique for survival from un-steered barrels.
Step 5: Go down further and re-jump (should be a # symbol by this point) using the ladder glitch to ensure safety, assuming you only have 3 grouped and 1 "floater"
Step 6: Climb back to the 4th girder and repeat until the last set of 4 barrels, now group, jump and follow them down to the 2nd girder and use the "barrel skip" jump
Step 7: PROFIT


Phil had mastered this, and abused the shit out of the "ladder cheat" for grouping on most every barrel board, I'm not sure if he saved any of those streams, but he definitely had been applying all of these known techniques on his quest for 700k.  He would always take the top hammer until he reached his 3rd man, at that point it was "no longer worth the risk".

FWIW, Phil often said, and I am paraphrasing him here:  "It was a legit, publicly released, game, it's how the game was designed, its not a "glitch" or a "hack", but rather how the game was programmed to be played".  I totally agree with what Phil said, it was a final release of the game, it was designed that way, you are playing the game as it was coded to behave...

[danman123456]

I agree all of that is intentional I'm sure. The floor glitch takes the same work to get the top hammer so I'm sure its intentional and not some "glitch". Same as the hammer "drop" no way thats just a "glitch".

The wanted this to be "Crazy" Kong after all...

[_Zaphod_]

barrel skip is definitely a bug. it was inherited from dkongjpo roms.

Ladder cheat i'm not so sure, but it was also inherited.

The hammer drop seem totally unique to crazy kong.

But i agree that it's stupid outlawing any of them.

[danman123456]

Yeah because glitch or not what do you gain? 3 more boards if you do it on 22-1?