Donkey Kong Forum
General Donkey Kong Discussion => General Donkey Kong Discussion => Topic started by: homerwannabee on February 12, 2013, 06:33:57 pm
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OK, here is the good news. I am really, really successful at the rivets. By far in any way you measure I had the most success on this stage. It seems strange that some people see this as the hardest board. Sadly the elevator stage is kicking my trash all over the place. It is by far the worst board for me. Strange that for the most skilled Donkey Kong players this board is actually the easiest with the top notch players having a 99 percent success rate.
OK, time for the numbers.
I faced a total 493 boards in these 25 games I played, and passed 393 of them. That's a success rate of 79.7% per board. Of course the success rate was much higher in the earlier boards.
I faced a total of 111 elevator stages, and passed a miserable 73 of them. That's a success rate of 65.7% per board. What is really sad is most of this success was on the level 2, and 3 boards.
I faced a total of 79 pie factor boards, and passed 63 of them. That's a success rate of 79.7% per board. The deaths for the pie factory seemed to happen in bunches though.
I faced a total of 198 barrel boards, and passed 160 of them. That's a success rate of 80.8% per board.
Lastly I faced a total of 104 rivet boards, and passed 96 of them. That's a success rate of 92.3% per board. Why can't all boards be as easy as the rivet board for me? I swear I would have killscreened this game by now if all I had was nothing but rivet boards for the 116 boards.
There was one glimmer of hope for me. On the last man I started to figure out how to tracking backwards on the elevator stage without dying. I did it like 2 times in a row, and than tried to go for it, and still got hit by a spring. So maybe if I keep plugging things will be better. At the moment though as you can see, I have legitimate reason to despise the elevator board. I would have had a much higher score than 319,200 which is my current high at the moment.
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You're doing well George. Making the jump from 300k to 500k is probably one of the hardest jumps, as it requires really perfecting your gameplay and not dying one of the times you normally would in the tough situations. This is also the place were people finally are forced to become super good at the springs. I would say that for right now you really need to hunker down and perfect your springs more than anything else; practice them until you can do them in your sleep. Spring deaths need to be inexcusable. Next after that would be working on barrels to the same degree. A great player should never die on Springs and almost never on Barrels when they are just running boards.
Keep at it!
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My opinions are very similar to Mitch's in this situation. Which is strange, because my current high score has 3 deaths on the springs... But usually, I never die on them! Just get a save state and try the springs over and over. Also, watch this video.
Donkey Kong Arcade 3rd Elevator Stage Walkthrough (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKs8HSVkKGc#)
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Good stuff George. It's a great idea to really take a good look at which areas need improvement and then concentrate on those skills. Most people would not analyze their results the way you have here and I'd bet that this will lead to more rapid improvement for you than many other players.
One thing I'll say about the rivet screens is that you probably aren't going deep enough into the game yet to see how nasty they are -- if your PR is 319k I'm guessing your "average" game these days is maybe 250k, maybe somewhere around the end of Level 7 or so. The rivets really don't become a major problem until Level 5, but Level 5 rivets are significantly harder than on previous Levels. If you are commonly playing games up into the Level 10 - 15 range, you'd begin to see how a couple of your men seem to be "stolen" by a seemingly impossible rivet screen. It will be interesting to hear if your opinion of this screen changes as your average game goes deeper.
As for the elevators, a lot of these guys in this community will say things that make it seem like they should be easy, which is likely frustrating to hear. The truth is, these are generally very experienced, kill-screen capable players who are saying this, and they STILL occasionally die here anyways. The fact is, it takes MONTHS of dedicated play to really become comfortable with this screen in the midst of a full game that is going deep, perhaps with a shot at a PR. You absolutely SHOULD set up a save state and practice this way for 10 minutes every day for several weeks -- but there is no substitute for having to deal with this screen on the fly during a good run. I'm confident that most players who have played a serious game every day for a couple of months STILL dread it every time they see the 4 monkeys stacked up, indicating that they will have to deal with yet another elevator screen now. For me, that feeling lasted a long time for games that were going deep.
However, with your overall cag skills and your posted success rate, I have a feeling that you are doing something slightly wrong and/or just haven't developed proper technique yet. You could get that success rate just by accident without actually ever retreating. First (again, with a save state), you should get familiar with how close you can get to the spring that is passing over your head -- most novice players actually get a "poor jump" most of the time because they are timing their approach late enough so that the spring clearly passes over Jumpman's head. This is a mistake. A spring can pretty much pass straight through Jumpman's entire head without a death because of how the hit boxes work for these objects -- you pretty much NEED to have some contact with the spring in order to get a good jump.
The other piece of the technique is spring recognition and responding very quickly with the correct decision. I have a feeling that different players actually do things slightly differently for spring recognition. The technique that I used for a long time focused intently on watching precisely where the spring lands within the yellow box to determine how "long" it is. The trouble is, this is already pretty late in the process and it becomes difficult to make a decision based on this late information. I have now mostly transitioned to using more of a peripheral vision approach which is geared not so much on where the spring is landing, but rather how it is entering the screen. A long spring will enter the screen with high "energy" -- an upward arching motion that just looks threatening, whereas the shorter springs just sort of drop into the screen. This extra millisecond of information makes the decision making much easier, although it's harder to get used to trusting this information since it's more approximate in nature.
Keep us posted on your progress.
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Another springs tip is, once you are good at getting good jumps to make the climb up the ladder...you really don't need to wait for a long spring...any medium/long-ish spring is ok to go on...so as long as the following spring is not long.
In fact...it's more important to look for the next spring coming out, after you've decided to go...than making sure you go on a long spring.
Reason being, the longer the spring, the higher up that spring will reach on the ladder...making it harder...or even impossible to climb the ladder successfully...even if you get a perfect jump.
If you go on a medium-ish spring, and the next spring is a medium-ish spring...you can even have a crappy jump, and still make it up safely (not too crappy, but a little crappy).
Somewhere in the 'medium' zone of spring classification lies the 'sweet spot'. What I mean by this is the spring that, as it makes its bouce near the ladder, lands directly in the middle of the bottom of the ladder Jumpman must climb to complete the level. This is the 'sweet spot spring', because it gives you the absolute most time to climb up the ladder without getting hit...obviously because it poses the least amount of threat due to the fact that it can only kill you if you are at a pretty low vertical position on that ladder.
Understanding that you really don't have to wait for long springs will also save you a lot of points on spring boards...becasue you can go on long or medium springs once you get used to it...which gives you more springs to go on...expediting the process...leaving more on the bonus timer.
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That's very good analysis George! I love #'s. After my first killscreen, I did a statistical/probabability analysis on what your success rate on each board had to be in order for you to have a realistic shot at a killscreen. Unfortunately it was on TG forums but hopefully it's archived somewhere. Anyhow I seem to remember you need to AVERAGE about 93-94% survival on each board and about 400K per game to have a realistic shot. Again, these are averages, not PB.
I've never done this type of analysis on my games, but if I'm running boards, I'd say my survival is:
barrels 99%
conveyers low 90's%
spring 99%
rivets low 90's%
Since barrels account for 1/2 the screens, I'd suggest you work on:
barrel > elevator > pie
Your rivets are already good enough for a killscreen.
I agree with Dean, if you're only playing a few rivet screens per game, it may seem like the easiest, but as you improve your other screens, it will become the hardest. It's all relative. Once your barrels and springs are 99%, the conveyers and rivets will account for most of your deaths. Those boards are more random and out of your control.
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Another springs tip is, once you are good at getting good jumps to make the climb up the ladder...you really don't need to wait for a long spring...any medium/long-ish spring is ok to go on...so as long as the following spring is not long.
In fact...it's more important to look for the next spring coming out, after you've decided to go...than making sure you go on a long spring.
Reason being, the longer the spring, the higher up that spring will reach on the ladder...making it harder...or even impossible to climb the ladder successfully...even if you get a perfect jump.
If you go on a medium-ish spring, and the next spring is a medium-ish spring...you can even have a crappy jump, and still make it up safely (not too crappy, but a little crappy).
Somewhere in the 'medium' zone of spring classification lies the 'sweet spot'. What I mean by this is the spring that, as it makes its bouce near the ladder, lands directly in the middle of the bottom of the ladder Jumpman must climb to complete the level. This is the 'sweet spot spring', because it gives you the absolute most time to climb up the ladder without getting hit...obviously because it poses the least amount of threat due to the fact that it can only kill you if you are at a pretty low vertical position on that ladder.
Understanding that you really don't have to wait for long springs will also save you a lot of points on spring boards...becasue you can go on long or medium springs once you get used to it...which gives you more springs to go on...expediting the process...leaving more on the bonus timer.
Wow. This was a very useful tip. I just used it to up my score from 434,600 (3 springs deaths) to 505,700 (0 springs deaths) in literally one game (no restarts at all!) without practicing the technique whatsoever. It makes the spring boards MUCH less stressful to do it this way. Thank you.
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No problem. Glad it helped!
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when you guys are doing this you seem to stand at different spot.
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Well I did another analysis of 100 men. This time a couple of stats have improved greatly while a couple of others have fallen off a tad bit. Overall I did better with the 100 men, but ironically enough this go around I did not hit 200,000 points 1 single time, but last time I hit 300,000 points. OK, here are some now personal highs this time around.
Last time I reached Level 3-1 in all 25 games. This time around I reached Level 3-3 in all 25 games.
Last time I reached Level 5 a total of 14 times. This time around I reached Level 5 17 times.
Last time I reached Level 6 a total of 6 times. This time around I reached Level 6 7 times.
Of the 520 boards I faced this go around I passed 420 of them. That's a success rate of 82.0%. A new record!
I faced a total of 111 Elevator stages, and passed 80 of them. that's a success rate of 72.0%. A new record, and a much better improvement from last time of 65.7%(Accidentally miscalculated my numbers last time to 60.3%). To me this is definitely the most important area I needed to improve on, and despite lacking in a couple of other areas I am happy because I am starting to get this level.
I faced a total of 87 Pie Factory stages, and passed 69 of them. A success rate of 79.3%. I am down slightly, but what also needs to be noted is I faced more level 5 Pie Factory boards this time around.
I faced a total of 212 Barrel boards, and passed 174 of them. A success rate of 82.0%. This is something I am also up slightly on. This is the second board I really wanted a better success rate on, and so this is good as well.
Lastly I faced a total of 110 Rivet boards, and passed 97 of them. A success rate of 88.1%. I was really disappointed in this total. I really should have done better than this. But considering this was my only real disappointment of the 4 boards, I'll take that.
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OK, did yet another 100 man/25 game analysis of my game play. I did much better this time. I have Dean Saglio to partially thank for this. His rule of thumb to get to the yellow safe spot on the elevator stage really helped big time. Did not die once getting to the yellow safe spot. OK, now for the numbers.
I achieved a new personal high of 341,600. Awesome stuff!
I reached level 10 two times. New record!
I reached level 9 two times. New record!
I reached level 8 five times. New record!
I reached level 7 nine times. New record!
I reached level 6 18 times. New record!
I reached level 5 22 times. New record!
I cleared 598 out of 698 total boards for an 85.6% success rate. New record!
I cleared 253 out of 396 Barrel boards for an 85.4% success rate. New record!
I cleared 111 out of 134 Elevator boards for an 82.8% success rate. New record!
I cleared 94 out of 109 Pie Factory boards for an 86.2% success rate. New record!
I cleared 131 out of 150 Rivet boards for an 87.3% success rate. Down mostly because I was going through more level 5 and up boards.
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I cleared 131 out of 150 rivet boards for an 87.3% success rate. Down mostly because I was going through more level 5 and up boards.
Yeah this is what Dean and I were saying (I think it was in your other thread). Beginners will often say rivets are the easiest as they are probably only playing 1 or 2 L5+ rivets. As you improve your other boards, you will start to play out more rivet boards and you'll see that the rivets (and conveyers) are the hardest. And it seems like no matter how much you practice them, there are some boards where they will just kill you no matter what you do. So now that you realize this, I guess you're past the beginner stage!
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I cleared 131 out of 150 rivet boards for an 87.3% success rate. Down mostly because I was going through more level 5 and up boards.
Yeah this is what Dean and I were saying (I think it was in your other thread). Beginners will often say rivets are the easiest as they are probably only playing 1 or 2 L5+ rivets. As you improve your other boards, you will start to play out more rivet boards and you'll see that the rivets (and conveyers) are the hardest. And it seems like no matter how much you practice them, there are some boards where they will just kill you no matter what you do. So now that you realize this, I guess you're past the beginner stage!
Well the numbers still say that Rivet overall is easier for me, and then next easiest is now Pie Factory, and next easiest is Barrel boards, and the hardest is still elevator. Also the Pie Factory I had a lot more success this time around than last time. The main reason behind that is because I realized that yes, early on it's good to be aggressive on the Conveyor, but once the fireballs decide to jam you up it's best to wait it out until a couple of fireballs make it to the top where they can't hurt you.
As far as beginner goes, my qualification are a bit lower than yours. I go with the Robert Mruczek line of "The average Donkey Kong player will never pass the 3rd elevator stage". So once a person passes that I think they are no longer in the beginner phase, but are also not to intermediate level. I would say the missing level is what we call in tennis as the "Recreational Player". That is something I have basically been for the past year and a half until probably the last week or so where things are starting to put me finally in the Intermediate level of Donkey Kong. You know this has inspired me I think I am going to make thread about the different levels. ;D
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Well did an analysis of another 100 men, and sadly I took a step backwards this time. I think my main problem was the game out of the gate I fell on my face with the worst game I have had in a very long time. I did not make it past Level 2-1 on the first game. So I had already dug myself a hole. This time I had no new percentage records, and that was a disappointment. I also had no new high scores, and no top 10 scores. I did do one thing very well this time around.
I only died twice on the 2nd or 3rd elevator in all 25 games I played. Before I was dying 5 or 6 times, and I realized that this equated to 1 in 4 games or 1 in 5 games playing with 3 men instead of 4 because almost all my deaths on these stages are do to not paying attention, and not do to a lack of skill. Also I only died 19 times this time around on the elevator boards which is also a record lowest death total for 100 men. It actually was the 2nd most successful board, which is also a first. I did not however get a percentage record simply because I faced less elevator boards this time around. OK, here are the horrible numbers this time around.
I passed 446 out of 546 boards for a success rate of 81.6%
I passed 184 out of 231 barrel boards for a success rate of 79.6%
I passed 107 out of 121 rivet boards for a success rate of 88.4%
I passed 84 out of 103 elevator boards for a success rate of 81.5%
I passed 70 out of 90 pie factory boards for a success rate of 77.7%
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I was pretty good at the elevators at one time. I just got back into playing donkey kong. You know how they say it's eye hand cordnation. I'd throw in ear cordnation as well when trying to get through the elevator stage. When I'm posted waiting for the long spring and it finally comes out I jet for the ladder but my eyes don't leave the yellow block where the first spring falls because I'm waiting for spring number two to come out now if I get two long springs and I hear I'm climbing the ladder I go back down and reset myself to the safe yellow block. If I get a long spring and then a short spring and I don't hear me climbing the ladder then obviously I didn't go far enough to reach the ladder an I retreat back to the safety zone. If I get my long spring then I hear I'm climbing the ladder and then I see the second springs short I continue on climbing. Sorry probably confusing but donkey kings like that sometimes.
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Did yet another 100 man analysis, and I did pretty good this time. I actually upped my record high score twice during my 25 game span. Had a decent amount of personal records over the span of 100 men. First I made it to at least Level 4-2 every single time. That beats my previous record of making it to at least Level 3-3 every all 25 games. Also I only died once on either Level 2 or Level 3 Elevator boards in all 25 games I played.
Made it to Level 4 all 25 games. A new record!
Made it to level 5, 22 games. Ties my record!
Made it to level 6, 19 games. A new record!
Made it to level 7, 11 games. A new record!
Made it to level 8, seven games. A new record!
Made it to level 9, two games. Ties my record!
Made it to level 10, two games. Ties my record!
Made it to level 11, two games. A new record!
I passed 647 of 747 total boards for a success rate of 86.6% A new record!
I passed 283 of 326 total barrel boards for a success rate of 86.8% A new record!
I passed 140 of 153 total rivet boards for a success rate of 91.5% (close to my record!)
I passed 119 of 136 total elevator boards for a success rate of 87.5% A new record! (probably my most important record of them all)
I passed 105 of 132 total pie factory boards for a success rate of 79.5% (This was my one major downfall. Wonder how I would have done if the pie factory boards were going my way.
Overall I am happy I made some major improvements. I feel I am starting to get to the turning point in this game. Meaning that I am spending almost as much time on Level 5+ boards than the earlier boards. Nice to be back on track.
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Very nice. I wish I could track my stats but I'm far to lazy.
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I might do the same thing, see where I'm at. My best games are only level 8, so I'm nowhere near you but it might give me some insight into where I'm going wrong.
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OK, it's been a month and a half since I did this, and I was a tad bit rusty, but succeeded in one very important area. Had a couple of personal records. First I made it to at least 4-3 all 25 games which is a record.
Made it to level 7, 11 times ties a record
Made it to level 9 three times. A new record
Passed 595 out of 695 boards 85.6% success rate
Passed 255 out of 303 barrel boards 84.1% success rate
Passed 130 out of 151 rivet boards 86.0% success rate
Passed 96 out of 115 pie factory boards 83.4% success rate
Passed 114 out of 126 elevator boards 90.4% success rate A new record!
So despite actually going down in almost every board, I am actually happy with my performance because I drastically improved the most important board for myself. The elevator boards. I did a drastic change with this board. For level 4, and up I almost always am now skipping the prizes, and am just jumping straight on the elevator to get to the top level.
What this does is make it so most of the time I get to the top part with 6800 or 6900 on the bonus timer. This gives a whole lot more time to wait for the right spring to pass. Before sometimes I would get to the top with only 4500 on the bonus timer. This made it so I was pressed to find the right spring before time ran out. With time not an issue anymore I can now take my time, and wait for the right one.
I learned this technique ironically enough while playing Monkey Donkey. The game sort of forces you to take the elevator as quick as possible since there is not a constant flow of elevators like there is in Donkey Kong. So despite still having only 457k as my high score I finally see the light at the end of the tunnel for a killscreen. The elevators was the one thing that was really holding me back. As you can see that is not as much of an issue as well. One more thing to note. About half of my elevator deaths happened in the first 6 or 7 games. So I am really doing great on the elevators on the last 17 or 18 games.
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The good thing about the prizes on the elevator stage is if you die from a spring then You gained 500-2400 points for that man. If you get no prizes and die it was for nothing. Sometimes it's better to just concentrate getting through the level though.
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OK, I have done yet another 100 man, 25 game analysis. This seems to be the tale of two games for me. What I mean by that is I had 6 different games that actually made it to level 9. The bad part is I had 6 games that didn't even make it to level 5. So while my consistency from game to game was down, when I was on, I was really on. I got my all time high during these 25 games when I hit 504,000 points. I am starting to notice that a lot of my all time high scores happen during this analysis.
OK, well it's time for the stats. I broke some records, but I also was down in a couple of areas that could have made my game even better.
I made it to level 14 one time- A new personal record!
I made it to level 13 two times-A new personal record!
I made it to level 12 three times- A new personal record!
I made it to level 11 four times- A new personal record!
I made it to level 10 four times- A new personal record!
I made it to level 9 six times- A new personal record!
I made it to level 8 eight times-A new personal record!
Now the board stats
I passed 703 out of 803 total boards; A 87.5% success rate- A new personal record!
I passed 308 out of 361 barrel boards; A 85.3% success rate
I passed 147 out of 163 rivet boards; A 90.1% success rate
I passed 130 out of 146 elevator boards; A 89.0% success rate
I passed 116 out of 131 pie boards; A 88.5% success rate-A new personal record!
I think a major factor in my success this time around is my success with the pie boards. I am starting to go for the ladder on the left when I don't get a free pass. I notice the fireballs tend to gravitate towards the right, making it easier to pass the board. Granted I do lose bonus points for less time doing this, but I think it's definitely working in the right direction.
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Yet another 100 man analysis! For the most part I was down overall. I was a tad bit more consistent however, and I did get a personal top 10 score. I for the first time did not die on the Level 2 or Level 3 elevator stage in all 25 games I played. Very happy about that! OK, and now for the stats.
I made it to level five 23 times. A new personal record!
I passed 637 out of 737 boards for a 86.4% completion rate
I passed 279 out of 331 barrel boards for a 84.2% completion rate (This was my major downfall, I believe I could have done much better if I was anywhere near my high in this)
I passed 137 out of 159 rivet boards for a 86.1% completion rate (again, another low percent for me. Should have done much better on this)
I passed 123 out of 132 elevator boards for a 93.1% completion rate. A new personal record!
(This was basically my lone bright spot, but again I feel this is the most important board at the current moment. If I can get it just a tad bit higher I effectively make this a 3 board game to deal with instead of a 4 board game)
I am going to call this 100 man analysis a success simply because I improved my elevator stage. For me it's still the most important. If I can get it just a bit higher I can start focusing more on the barrel boards. This is something that I still need to improve on. I really believe now if I can start to get the barrel boards up to a 90 percent completion rate I have an excellent shot at a killscreen.
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Cool info George. I'm not that organized. :)
I'm my own worst enemy now. Between my x-arcade, x-split and just me doing something stupid I'm not sure when i'll get a KS. I'm tempted to just go to Flipper McCoys with my camcorder and try there.
Dan
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First off, very cool stuff George. Glad you are still improving even if you have plateau'd a little. I wish I had the will power to play 100 guys strait thru without rage quitting.
Cool info George. I'm not that organized. :)
I'm my own worst enemy now. Between my x-arcade, x-split and just me doing something stupid I'm not sure when i'll get a KS. I'm tempted to just go to Flipper McCoys with my camcorder and try there.
Dan
Hey Dan, have you ever considered putting a DK stick on your X-Arcade? Its a pretty simple adapter and BOOM BABY.. real controls.
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no i havent thought of that Ken is it something simple to do?
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I think you are correct, George, the elevator stage is the most important board for you to master at this point (still!). You should definitely consider these last 100 men to be a success!
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Last post by marinomitch13
in Re: I decided to an anal...
on Today at 09:54:41 PM
;D
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Yet another 100 man analysis! For the most part I was down overall. I was a tad bit more consistent however, and I did get a personal top 10 score. I for the first time did not die on the Level 2 or Level 3 elevator stage in all 25 games I played. Very happy about that!
I'm tempted to conduct a 100 man analysis of my own. The benefit is that the numbers will highlight the areas of my game that require attention. The downside is that those same numbers will probably upset me.
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Last post by marinomitch13
in Re: I decided to an anal...
on Today at 09:54:41 PM
;D
Yea, gross man.
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OK, I had a pretty good run this time. Did not get any huge scores, but I was much more consistent, and I broke some reaching level records. First off, I reached level 4-5 in all 25 games. A new personal record! In fact the first 21 games I actually reached level 5-4 which was pretty cool. OK, and now for the other records.
Reached level 8 nine times: A new personal record!
Reached level 7; 16 times: A new personal record!
Reached level 6; 20 times: A new personal record!
Reached level 5; 24 times: A new personal record!
I passed 754 out of 854 total boards for a success rate of 88.2%: A new personal record!
I passed 337 out of 374 total barrel boards for a success rate of 90.1%: A new personal record!
I passed 157 out of 183 total rivet boards for a success rate of 85.7%
I passed 145 out of 159 total elevator boards for a success rate of 91.1%
I passed 120 out of 143 total pie factory boards for a success rate of 83.9%
Here is a good thing about the 100 man analysis. For the 25 games I played I did not get a top 10 score. Having said that though, I am much more encouraged than if I had a new high of 620k or something like that. Why is that? Well I am now starting to master the barrel boards. I am really starting to do good on the level 5, and up barrel boards. I am more, and more not putting myself in 1/16th situations. Also most of my barrel deaths were coming from before level 5. Yet another encouraging sign.
I am really starting to think that getting a killscreen is a very real possibility in the near future. Hitting 90 percent on both Elevators, and barrel boards is a HUGE step. I had a bad run of rivet, and pie factory boards, but I have a feeling my luck has to change eventually for that, and when it does killscreen watch out!
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Good work, George! Glad to hear those barrel boards are coming along nicely now. Figuring out how not to get 1/16th'ed is good stuff!
KEEP PLUGGING THOSE 'LEAKS'! GO GO GO
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George if you want I could show you a few things on the springs that dramatically helped my game and everyone that I have showed. My stream is Shane_NC, stop by sometimes or send me a message when im online on DKF.
I guess I have no right to disagree with Dean on DK, but I dont think it takes MONTHS to become profiecient on the springs. Kasper learned the springs in a few hours, and It only took me a few days. The other day in save state practive I hit 47 in a row before I stopped. Id say if you spent a solid 10 hours with the springs you should be fine.
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This time I really started off strong, but along the way I lost focus or something. In some areas I did really good, and in others I really feel like I dropped the ball i.e. the elevators.
The stats
Reached level 18 one time: A new record!
Reached level 17 one time: A new record!
Reached level 16 one time: A new record!
Reached level 15 one time: A new record!
Reached level 14 two times: A new record!
I passed 756 total boards out of 856 boards for a success rate of 88.3% A new personal record!
I passed 337 out of 366 total barrel boards for a success rate of 92.0% A new personal record! I am happy about this one big time, because from level 5 on 50 percent of the boards are barrel boards. If I hadn't sucked so bad on the elevator boards I really think I would have done much, much, much better.
I passed 154 out of 181 rivet boards for a success rate of 85.0%; the rivet boards really were not with me. Had a ton of screw jobs.
I passed 139 out of 165 elevator boards for a success rate of 84.2%. I just went too soon, too often. This really killed my game. I was once over 92% I know I can do better. Even my epic game where I hit 690k I actually lost a man on the elevator as well. If I can touch up my elevator game, and bring it to 92% like my barrel boards it basically increases my chances drastically for a killscreen.
I passed 126 out of 144 pie factory boards for a success rate of 87.5%. The game was nice to me on the pie factory boards for once.
So with this update it all comes down to the elevator boards. It's the one thing I need to become more focused in.
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I passed 139 out of 165 elevator boards for a success rate of 84.2%. I just went too soon, too often. This really killed my game. I was once over 92% I know I can do better. Even my epic game where I hit 690k I actually lost a man on the elevator as well. If I can touch up my elevator game, and bring it to 92% like my barrel boards it basically increases my chances drastically for a killscreen.
Tell me about it. I had a game 4 months ago where I lost my first 3 lives on the L06-4 elevator stage. That's not a typo; 3 consecutive spring deaths on Level 06. Don't ask me why I didn't restart. From there, I cruised to L13-2 for a 517,500 final score.
If not for elevator deaths, resulting from chronic impatience, 11 games played in the past 19 months could have reached Level 16, with at least one man in reserve.
Dying on that one board, where survival is essentially 100% within the player's control, is simply unacceptable.
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Yep, another 100 man analysis, and as you may have guessed I made a major improvement! The key was I was over 90 percent on barrel boards, and elevator boards. I also was decent on the pie factory, and rivet boards.
Here are the records for myself.
I reached level 21 one time: A new personal record!
I reached level 20 one time: A new personal record!
I reached level 19 one time: A new personal record!
I reached level 18 one time: Ties a personal record!
I reached level 17 two times: A new personal record!
I reached level 16 two times: A new personal record!
I reached level 15 two times: A new personal record!
I reached level 14 three times: A new personal record!
I reached level 13 three times: A new personal record!
I reached level 12 three times: Ties a personal record!
I reached level 11 four times: Ties a personal record!
I reached level 10 seven time: A new personal record!
I reached level nine 12 times: A new personal record!
I reached level eight 13 times: A new personal record!
I reached level seven 17 times: A new personal record!
I reached level six 21 times: A new personal record!
As far as the boards go
I passed 965 out of 1065 total boards for a success rate of 90.6%: A new personal record!
I passed 442 out of 485 barrel boards for a success rate of 91.1%
I passed 191 out of 210 rivet boards for a success rate of 90.9%
I passed 174 out of 189 elevator boards for a success rate of 92.0% (Although not a personal record on either barrel or elevator it's the first time I have been over 90% for both boards) Combined the percentage success rate is 91.3% which is a new personal record!
I passed 158 out of 181 pie factory boards for a success rate of 87.2%
So even though I did not have a personal record for any particular board overall I jumped up greatly in my numbers. I think I am actually now pretty close to getting a killscreen. Heck I WAS pretty close to getting a killscreen when I missed by 3 boards! Oh, and my next post I want to show how much I progressed using Hank Chien's numbers for probability for a killscreen. One thing though. I don't think he calculated the fact that Level 5, and up barrel boards are much easier than level 5 barrel boards. I had a few games go short because I lost 2, 3, or even 4 men before I even hit level 5.
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OK, when I started this whole thing my average start was completing level 5-2 the odds for me at the time of getting a killscreen was 7,706,778,296 to 1 with me having to wait 27,940,610 years if I played 3 games a day to get it!
Than I improved to completing level 5-3, and my odds improved to 1,989,228,620 to 1 odds of getting a killscreen with me waiting only 7,038,154 years if I played 3 games a day to do it. ;)
Than I improved to completing level 6-4, and my odds really improved to 700,000 to 1 odds of getting a killscreen with me waiting only 650 years if I played 3 games a day to do it! Hey if I played 30 games I day I could have done it in 65 years!
Than I improved to completing level 6-6, and my odds improved to 94,913 to 1 with me waiting only 87 years to do it! Hey if I do 9 games a day I can get it down to 29 years! Now it's in my lifetime!
Than I improved to completing level 7-2, and my odds improved to 30,730 to 1 with me waiting only 28 years to do it! Now I only have to do 6 games a day, and I could have done it in 14 years!
Than I improved to completing level 7-4, and my odds improved to 10,238 to 1. Hey, Allen Staal has over 6500 games played in a very short time, and so now it's looking very promising!
Now with this latest analysis I improved to an average of completing level 9-1. Now the odds are 650 to 1! Now the odds go down to 7 months to pull it off. But if I play 10 games a day I can do it in 2 months! Killscreen here I come! 8)
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Now you're interpreting my chart correctly!
However, I do feel you will killscreen in less than 2 months because:
1- you are likely still improving while you play
2- you will likely restart if you die early (the chart assumes you play out every game)
Something that will work in your disfavor is: the better you get the fewer games you will get to play per day. If you're averaging 100K per game, 10 games/day is easy. But if you're averaging 300K+ it will be tough to maintain that average.
And yes you're right, my chart does not take into consideration that the early boards are harder:
2- you have the same probability of passing each screen.
I say within 1 month. Obviously you can get really lucky and it could happen today or really unlucky and it could take 6 months. Good luck!
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Now you're interpreting my chart correctly!
However, I do feel you will killscreen in less than 2 months because:
1- you are likely still improving while you play
2- you will likely restart if you die early (the chart assumes you play out every game)
Something that will work in your disfavor is: the better you get the fewer games you will get to play per day. If you're averaging 100K per game, 10 games/day is easy. But if you're averaging 300K+ it will be tough to maintain that average.
And yes you're right, my chart does not take into consideration that the early boards are harder:
2- you have the same probability of passing each screen.
I say within 1 month. Obviously you can get really lucky and it could happen today or really unlucky and it could take 6 months. Good luck!
I decided something this morning. What is more important to me than a killscreen is my score. I realized that I could go another month or two trying to get a killscreen that will raise my high score about 20,000 points if that, or I could start to go bottom hammer after level 5, and start working on that so that I will have a great improvement upon my high score. So I am going to do after level 5 two hammer games from now on. And for kicks I think I will show my after level 5 two hammer game high score! Right now it's 113,600! ;D
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That plan is fine (to start point pressing). 21-4 is essentially a killscreen anyway but you will always have that monkey on your back (ahem Mitch). But be warned that going from a killscreen to 1M will take just as long and in most cases much longer than going from scratch to a killscreen. It may be worth that 1 month just to get that monkey off your back. I can tell you the road to 1M will probably be much longer than that.
I remember Christian was in your shoes not too long ago and I told him to go for a killscreen because it wouldn't take much longer. I think it took him a week after I said that.
If you start point pressing... piece of advice: don't get caught in the rut of focusing on the early boards. I see too many players getting caught up with the first 4 levels which only account for about 10% of your total score. Unless you are aiming for 1.1M+ the start is not that important. I will tell you even when I'm aiming for 1.15M, I frequently finish 1-1 with only 9K.
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That plan is fine (to start point pressing). 21-4 is essentially a killscreen anyway but you will always have that monkey on your back (ahem Mitch). But be warned that going from a killscreen to 1M will take just as long and in most cases much longer than going from scratch to a killscreen. It may be worth that 1 month just to get that monkey off your back. I can tell you the road to 1M will probably be much longer than that.
I remember Christian was in your shoes not too long ago and I told him to go for a killscreen because it wouldn't take much longer. I think it took him a week after I said that.
If you start point pressing... piece of advice: don't get caught in the rut of focusing on the early boards. I see too many players getting caught up with the first 4 levels which only account for about 10% of your total score. Unless you are aiming for 1.1M+ the start is not that important. I will tell you even when I'm aiming for 1.15M, I frequently finish 1-1 with only 9K.
Hank, that is why I said Level 5 two hammer games because from level 1 to 4 I will be essentially playing the same. In fact the only difference is going to be the Level 5 and up two hammers.
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I see too many players getting caught up with the first 4 levels ... Unless you are aiming for 1.1M+ the start is not that important.
Thank you.
I really don't understand people's masochism.
They spend 3 hours of every session making themselves miserable trying to get a start, burning off all of their energy, focus, mood, and spare time on the levels where the game is just messing with you and basically has you by the balls, when they're only going for 1.0M to 1.05M.
You can easily get that by warping if you shift the effort to where it actually counts, to L5+, where you're actually in control. Think about it, there are TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND points that you get to leave on the table! Leave them on the awful levels!
Dean, Ross, Hank, Vincent, Phil, these guys HAVE to do the dirty work. Most of us don't.
For anyone going for a million, a 115K start and 52K levels is, in the long run, going to require tremendously more effort, time, and annoyance than a 100K start and 53K levels.
JRTFBDNs!
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9154 Posts in 482 Topics by 212 Members. Latest Member: Florentin
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Well, that escalated quickly! lol.
lol and I just saw that Chris posted the same thing, lovit!
But yeah, getting a start is the hardest thing in Donkey Kong. It's time consuming, and energy consuming, and most of all, it's extremely annoying/frustrating. I would recommend to anyone going for 1.15m or less to not aim for more than 120k after stage 4, since 90% of the frustration in Donkey Kong comes from getting a start (when you're point pressing).
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George just noticed too, in the shoutbox.
Y'all are catching up to my kindergarten sense of humor!
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Yea I agree with Hank...it took me 3 months to get a killscreen, and a whole year after that before I cracked 1M. There's just a lot more ways to die when you throw in that bottom hammer.
Congrats on your progress!
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I've had 118,300. On single hammer. By far my best but can top 110k start single hammer quite often. It would be insanely difficult but 1.1 can be achieved with those scores. The majority of us fall into the trying to get to a million club. I find 2 hammer with little pressing on the barrel boards I can still get 54,500k levels. It's a whole new ball game but my advice to 99 percent of people is to warp to level 5. I throw in a few total point pressing games but nothing like I use to do. 2011 I was a way better player than I am today I wish I'd never have slowed down my game play. I was point pressing at a great level then. But now focused on running boards.
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OK, after fooling around with two hammers, and also experimenting with the conveyor hammer, I think I am going to go for a modified approach. I won't do two hammer, but I will now do Pie factory hammer when I can't get a free pass, and I will start to collect the prizes on level 2, and 3 for the elevator stages, and also jump one extra time when the timer hits zero. I used to do it twice, but now I see it is perfectly safe to jump 3 times on the level 5+ Rivets. I suspect that over the long run of a game I can get an extra 20,000 points. Which means I could probably hit 885K or so just doing that alone. Enough to focus on getting the killscreen in my opinion.
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OK, after fooling around with two hammers, and also experimenting with the conveyor hammer, I think I am going to go for a modified approach. I won't do two hammer, but I will now do Pie factory hammer when I can't get a free pass, and I will start to collect the prizes on level 2, and 3 for the elevator stages, and also jump one extra time when the timer hits zero. I used to do it twice, but now I see it is perfectly safe to jump 3 times on the level 5+ Rivets. I suspect that over the long run of a game I can get an extra 20,000 points. Which means I could probably hit 885K or so just doing that alone. Enough to focus on getting the killscreen in my opinion.
It's possible to jump 4 times on any rivet stage, and not suffer a death due to "timing out". In fact, if the timer reaches 000 during your first jump, you can still squeeze in 4 more, for a total of 5.
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I will now do Pie factory hammer when I can't get a free pass
You should probably be doing this anyway, even when running boards. Vincent Lemay might tell you otherwise. Ignore him unless you want an 800K first killscreen.
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It's possible to jump 4 times on any rivet stage, and not suffer a death due to "timing out".
Just make sure you're in the air when you remove the last rivet. The timeout death only occurs when you're on the ground.
Back when I was still learning on my cocktail cabinet, I had my PB game of 442k end stupidly when I tried to walk to the rivet after 4 jumps, killing me in the most embarrassing way possible. Pull that last rivet out with a jumping finish!
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Just make sure you're in the air when you remove the last rivet. The timeout death only occurs when you're on the ground.
Back when I was still learning on my cocktail cabinet, I had my PB game of 442k end stupidly when I tried to walk to the rivet after 4 jumps, killing me in the most embarrassing way possible. Pull that last rivet out with a jumping finish!
Excellent point, Shaun. I should have mentioned that.
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I find also if you pulled the top rivet and have the rivet below waiting to be pulled I usually do 2 jumps after time has expired then jet down the ladder and hope to avoid the fireball that was waiting on the other side. I leave the bottom rivet in most times to increase my leach time if the fireball goes up the other ladder.
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Can someone explain why you are allowed to do 4 to 5 jumps? I mean in the first level the most you can do is 5 jumps, and time goes 2 and half times slower. So shouldn't it be 2 or 3 jumps in regards to the clock? I don't get this.
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The extra time at "000" is the same on every board and every level (with the exception of barrel boards, I believe).
Once the timer hits 000 you have 257 frames with which you can enter inputs. A full jump cycle lasts 48 frames. This means you can actually jump 6 times (5 leech + 1 rivet clear) if you start exactly at 000 and every jump is perfectly timed. The 6th jump would occur 240 frames into the 257 frame window, so as long as you're in the air and clearing the rivet you're fine.
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The extra time at "000" is the same on every board and every level (with the exception of barrel boards, I believe).
Once the timer hits 000 you have 257 frames with which you can enter inputs. A full jump cycle lasts 48 frames. This means you can actually jump 6 times (5 leech + 1 rivet clear) if you start exactly at 000 and every jump is perfectly timed. The 6th jump would occur 240 frames into the 257 frame window, so as long as you're in the air and clearing the rivet you're fine.
OK, than, I have been leaving a lot of points on the table! Good to know!
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OK, it's been awhile, but I am back at it. Did another 100 man review. My style has changed since last time. OK, I have gotten better on what I consider the most important stage. The elevator stage. I now pick up the two left prizes, and my success rate is up. OK, I guess it's time for the stats.
I passed 930 out of 1030 boards. Not a record, but still almost back to where I was when I pulled off my near killscreen.
I passed 424 out of 462 barrel boards for a 91.77% success rate. Close to a record!
I passed 183 out of 215 rivet boards for a 85.11% success rate. This was my downfall. The rivets can be streaky. This run they were going against me hard. I had a couple of angry moments thinking "How is it possible that the rivets are screwing me over so badly?" I don't know, but they were.
I passed 171 out of 182 elevator boards for a 93.95% success rate. A new record! The elevators are no longer the issue for me.
I passed 183 out of 215 pie factory boards for an 88.88% success rate. I am happy with this rate as well.
Also
I reached level 12 four times. A new personal record!
I reached level 11 five times. A new personal record!
I reached level 10 eight times. A new personal record!
I reached level eight 16 times. A new personal record!
I reached level seven 18 times. A new personal record!
This time I didn't have any big breakout games, but I still saw marked improvement, and if I can get the rivets back in line, getting a killscreen would not be so hard.