Donkey Kong Forum
General Donkey Kong Discussion => General Donkey Kong Discussion => Topic started by: LMDAVE on March 26, 2014, 02:17:28 pm
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Just curious what the DK status is of the original KO1 players now (other than Steve & Billy). Seems most have either retired or still giving it a rest. Any of you guys still playing, or trying to up your PB, or plan to get back into it again sometime? I haven't jumped in on Dean's latest streams, but see he goes online everynow and then....is he trying for something?
Dean?
Hank?
Vince?
Ross?
Marky D?
Eric H?
Ben?
Kyle?
Dave? Well, I'll answer for myself, I find it harder and harder to start a session. I want to up my PB again (1.1M+), but if I don't get game going within 20-30 minutes I'm quick to turn it off. So many other non-gaming things going on.
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Vince? I'm relatively done with Donkey Kong. By "relatively", I mean that I will most likely not try to up my personal best, nor try to break the record again (at least in a near future). But I will obviously still be in touch with the kongers on this forum/Facebook/twitch for the rest of my life <Allen>
Since my 1,135,900, I don't have any pleasure in playing Donkey Kong anymore. But I will still enjoy playing from time to time some 1-1 or 5-1 savestates level on MAME! Yer buddy!
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So Vince is now saying that he won't even try to beat his PB and even try to come close to Hank at all? Being only that 2,700 points behind? Why would you give up on something that you are that close to? Even if it would be for a WR? So I guess Vince is now saying that a WR isn't that important or beating Hank is that important anymore? I sure wouldn't give up that easily if I knew I was that close to trying to beat someone for a score like that! I would keep on trying and "Not Giving Up!" But I guess thats just me! I'm sorry I'm posting this but if this is anyone else who would be this close to actually getting a WR in Donkey Kong for Arcade give up this easily if they knew they were only like 2,700 points away from doing it! Even if it would be a fun competition with the #1 person like Hank! But again thats just me! I just wanted to hear some other opinions from some other people on this matter and what they think about it! :-). I don't mean anything bad or wrong by this! I was just saying what was on my mind! I just wouldn't give up on a goal like that! I would just keep on working towards it! Like I did my first KS! I never gave up that easily and kept on working hard towards finally getting one! Why would you even bother to go to a Kong off then and actually compete then? There wouldn't be any use of going if you aren't really willing to actually try your best when you go there! But again this is just me!
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I can see why players like Ross and Vincent wouldn't have any desire to up their scores and get the record. They have been playing for at least 5 years and the game can get tiring after a while. I've been playing for just over 2 years and lose desire and want to do or play something else sometimes. Once you are trying to play at 1.15 pace, you start playing 1-1 through level 5 way too much and get no where and it can be frustrating. I still play because I feel more than capable of getting at least 1.1 and even a shot at the record. I have thought about this on a daily basis if I were to get a 1.1 or even come close to the record what I would do afterwards and at the very least I would take a long break from the game, then maybe go for the record again.
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Jason, Vincent has said that he considers Dean's 1.2 to be the world record, and that there's no way he will ever beat it. So beating Hank or getting the "arcade world record" may not be particularly important. (Ross feels the same way about MAME vs. arcade.)
And just because Vincent is close to Hank on the scoreboard doesn't mean he's close, in terms of time and effort, to getting a score like that a second time. It took him weeks of hardcore play to get that 1,135. It would probably take weeks to match it. Maybe even longer, since he's out of shape on DK.
Running boards to get a kill screen is one thing, but playing at super-high pace is grueling and draining and frustrating and really time-consuming. You have to really want it.
It would be one thing if it were a guarantee that Vincent could beat his PB in a day, but that's not how DK works, especially for a really high score. Vincent beating his PB would actually involve some serious time and effort. The higher your score gets in DK, the harder it becomes to duplicate or pass it. At some point it stops being interesting. That point is gonna be different for everybody, but it looks like Vincent is at that point.
Actually, at least from my perspective on everybody, it seems that all the players on Dave's list (except maybe Ross) have reached that point!
Dean got the 1.2, Hank seems to either be uninterested or is waiting for someone to beat him, Ross is a "we'll see", Mark Kiehl looks to be happy with his score and would rather play other games, Eric Howard disappeared from CAG completely, certainly DK at least, Ben wants 1.1 eventually but isn't fired up about it, and I have no idea about Kyle.
(Curious how right I am on all of that...)
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No, I still play but maybe once a week. And, like Dave, if I have a rough time getting a start going I usually just stop. I'm definitely not happy with my pb as I feel I'm a little bit better of a player now. I do want to get at least 1.1m before I put it away for a while, but yeah not real fired up about it though.
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It's funny thinking back to how I was basically a click away from going to the KO1. I found out about the KO1 literally a day before it was to happen (on TG's old site). At the time, I was a 370K PB player, but I felt I could have a breakout 500K+ game any moment. I filled out the flight info and got a price and everything, but I ultimately felt that my skill at that moment didn't merit the money -not to mention I basically knew no one in the community at that time. It wasn't until maybe 5-6 months later that I discovered twitch via the very indirect means of looking up Dean's "up2ng" handle from his TG account on google ( didn't even know about the impromptu streamers thread at that time -which would have made me connect the dots a lot sooner). Even though I didn't go, I ended up watching basically every minute of the KO1 stream live online. I was there in spirit. Was pretty cool. Fun to reflect back upon.
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I could always beat the arcade world record, and feel happy of having the "Donkey Kong world record", but then again, Dean has an unachievable score of 1,206,800 on MAME. I ain't gonna beat that <Allen>
But I would've enjoyed doing the same I did last year: Spending like 2-3 weeks at a place in USA and only play Donkey Kong during that amount of time (I did that in Denver in January 2013, and it actually only took me 10 days to get 1,135,900). I definitely think I could get 1.15m+ withing 2 weeks. If I wanna do a new high score one day, this is the way I wanna do it, since I enjoy more playing Donkey Kong for a short amount of time, but very intense aboot it and at a "live" location.
But with a baby, an important job and a girlfriend... I don't think it will be easy to do that again!
And honestly, after everything that has happened to me for the past 5 years because of DK, it definitely exceeded my expectations. I could really not ask for more Kreygasm BibleThump
Let's remember that even if Donkey Kong is a relatively very popular game, it's not like League of Legends/Dota 2/Starcraft 2, etc. If there was Donkey Kong tournament with 1m prizes, I would definitely play the shit out of this game! <Wiebe>
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Just think Vince, in a world without Hank, we could have been rivals. :o
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Dave: I've been taking an extended break..., from an extended break.
Yet I have been playing No Hammer, and finding it quite rewarding shitty acceptable.
Run some No Hammer next session Dave. Run at least three No Hammer sessions, and then be hooked, and then join the damn No Hammer Tournament.
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I'm definitely gonna shoot for that 1.1M at some point when I feel like it. I don't play anymore except to get ready for competitions, which I really love, and there are enough tournaments these days to more than satisfy my DK needs.
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If all the top players played DK all day, the record would have been broken at least a few more times by now.
DK isn't everyone's #1 priority. As far as I know, the only player that has made it their #1 priority is Vincent (during the time he was playing live at the 1UP for a couple weeks).
If it was, the arcade WR would probably be pretty close to Dean's MAME record.
Vince makes a good point: If there were a $1M prize pool at the KO...people would for sure take DK a lot more seriously. It isn't 'popular', per se. There isn't much competition out there for the game. I put the same amount of time and effort into getting good at LoL...and it took me that long to make it into the top 50% of players in the ranked ladder.
If you forced the top LoL, SC, and DOTA teams to stop playing their games and paid them well to play only DK for a year...Dean's MAME score would probably be broken multiple times (I think perhaps, this has been discussed before).
It is not about 'quitting' or 'giving up'...I think it's about priorities.
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If you forced the top LoL, SC, and DOTA teams to stop playing their games and paid them well to play only DK for a year...Dean's MAME score would probably be broken multiple times (I think perhaps, this has been discussed before).
It is not about 'quitting' or 'giving up'...I think it's about priorities.
I don't think that is the case necessarily. I see video games as a mental sport in a way. It would be like saying. Take the MLB players, and have them play kricket for a year, and records are going to be broken.
Now one argument I could see happening is say Donkey Kong became 1000 times more popular. Yeah, if that happened things would definitely change big time. I mean if there are a thousand more 1.1 million games than odds would state that there would be a better shot of another 1.2 million point game. Because Dean's 1.206 million point game is almost 70,000 higher than the next highest score I am not too sure what those odds would be. Dean is the outlier in this game, and how far of an outlier is something I don't know.
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Just think Vince, in a world without Hank, we could have been rivals. :o
This would have been Kreygasm maybe one day we will! You just need to break Hank's record. Then, Hank will try to beat it back, and it would be good for the DK community! Come on Ross, it would only take you 1 week to break the current record. Do it for the sake of the community! <Allen>
And yeah, if like 1k world-wide competitive gamer would be paid 50$ per hour to play only Donkey Kong for a year, there would be at least 200 1.1m+ scores, and maybe like 10 1.2m+ scores. Let's remember that the difference between 1.1m and 1.2m is extremely big. Even the difference between 1.17m and 1.2m is huge in term of risks, frustration and skills!
But now, if you would give 50$ per hour in addition to 1m dollars to everyone that reaches 1.2m+, then I think at least 100 people out of the 1k people would get it within a year.
Trust Vincent Lemay math on that <Allen>
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My motivation decreases every year. The arcade record isn't as high as it should be. It's a score that's about 1.5 years old now. I may make a run for it sometime this year, but yeah, I would like for someone to beat it first. Hank beating Hank is getting old.
I've been thinking about Funspot this year. I *may* make a run for it then, but I have to get in shape fairly quickly. Things are busy at work, but it should quiet down by then. Honestly, I enjoy myself much more when I go up just to hang out. No pressure and I can just have fun. Last year, I felt people were expecting Vince and me to play DK when we were both there just to have fun. We'll see.
Just think Ross, in a world without Vince, we could have been rivals.
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If you forced the top LoL, SC, and DOTA teams to stop playing their games and paid them well to play only DK for a year...Dean's MAME score would probably be broken multiple times (I think perhaps, this has been discussed before).
It is not about 'quitting' or 'giving up'...I think it's about priorities.
I don't think that is the case necessarily. I see video games as a mental sport in a way. It would be like saying. Take the MLB players, and have them play kricket for a year, and records are going to be broken.
Rest assured if the guys on KT, SKT1, or CJ Entus started playing DK full-time at least one or two of them would break 1.2m within a year, if not sooner.
There was a huge discussion about the switch of the Korean eSports Association (KeSPA) teams from SC1 to SC2 (even though they're the same franchise, the games are wildly different in how they're played). A lot of start-up Korean teams were starting to capitalize on SC2 before KeSPA made the switch, and they did capitalize for about a year. Once KeSPA switched, after about 6 months their players began to dominate all leagues, foreign and abroad.
There was a time in Korea a few years ago where there were 8 non-KeSPA teams. Only one of those teams is left. The other seven could not compete with the strength of play that KeSPA brought to the scene, and most of them dissolved once the vast majority of prize money began going KeSPA's way.
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Rest assured if the guys on KT, SKT1, or CJ Entus started playing DK full-time at least one or two of them would break 1.2m within a year, if not sooner.
There was a huge discussion about the switch of the Korean eSports Association (KeSPA) teams from SC1 to SC2 (even though they're the same franchise, the games are wildly different in how they're played). A lot of start-up Korean teams were starting to capitalize on SC2 before KeSPA made the switch, and they did capitalize for about a year. Once KeSPA switched, after about 6 months their players began to dominate all leagues, foreign and abroad.
There was a time in Korea a few years ago where there were 8 non-KeSPA teams. Only one of those teams is left. The other seven could not compete with the strength of play that KeSPA brought to the scene, and most of them dissolved once the vast majority of prize money began going KeSPA's way.
I have no idea what any of it means but it sounds sexy as hell Kreygasm
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I made a post here that was too weakly-connected to the topic to justify itself here.
I moved it to my blog...
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Wes, no offense, but you have no idea what 1.2 is. There is no way, I don't care what game they play. You really should try to play at 1.15 pace, for a month or two, before you even attempt to comment on the skills required for 1.2; let alone the favorable randomness. I had similar sentiments before sinking my teeth into this game (at one time I was 1/500,000+ players on another game); I'm so good at game "x" that Dk will be easy... and was totally convinced that the Dk scores were soft, well, they aren't. Comments like that severely discredit dean's accomplishment, and without actually putting in the effort, you will never know what 1.2 really is, because it's not just a number...
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I totally agree and would even go further,
I don't think there is anyone on the planet that could achieve Deans current score in a year (who has not played DK) and I'd be massively impressed if anyone (All current DK players included) could do it this year alone regardless of platform.
I'm not even a Million point player but its my belief that Dean has shelved the over all DK score to the point where it just doesn't seem feasible for anyone *currently* to take it, and the scoreboard makes it pretty evident that as of now no one has come close/within range(?)
and I know I just overstepped my boundaries in saying that ;D
I'm probably way off with my assessment and at the risk of sounding a little arrogant I would even go so far as to say that if a pot developed for beating that 1st place score I'd be happy to chip in as I honestly don't see it changing this year at least.
But If it does that person has my Kreygasm 's and my money BibleThump.
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For what it's worth, Dean has at least the top 5 scores ever recorded for DK. He might have even more, but these are the ones I'm aware of:
1,206,800 - 10/04/2013
1,186,700 - 09/04/2013
1,167,400 - 04/21/2012
1,153,000 - 04/03/2011
1,139,900 - 10/01/2013
I originally had a long paragraph typed up about the two sides of this argument, but really...come on...someone who has never played DK before is not beating Dean in a year.
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I love that DK has a simply ridiculous top score now that is very likely to never be beaten. This is the type of score that Billy's 874K was made out to be in KoK, only it's the real deal in Dean's case. If a legitimate challenger ever comes along, it's going to be exciting to say the least!
A serious bounty, like $10K+, is worth thinking about, if for no other reason than to prove that it really IS that hard, and is not just sitting there like a marshmallow because only a couple hundred people actually play this game.
Increase the competition pool tenfold and yes, you'd get a whole lot more kill screens, millions, and even 1.1s.
1.2 though...
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Tbh, Jeff Willms could actually get 1.2m relatively quickly if he worked at it. He's had several deep games at over 1.2m pace. I don't think it would be crazy to say that there would be other gamers out there who could reach the same level at DK in the way Jeff has. Jeff admitted that he played a TON of DK in his first month of the game (at least he made it sound like it was way more DK-playing in a month than I have ever personally done), so that was how he progressed so quickly. I'm sure if other determined gamers from LoL and other games did the same, they'd learn quickly as well -especially with all the easily accessible knowledge out there. I actually don't think it is unreasonable to say that a year of playing DK at "Jeff Willms pace" would allow someone to have a legitimate shot at 1.2m. The trick is just finding someone with that much free time and motivation for that long of a period of time. Most people get sidetracked with other gaming desires or just get too busy to maintain all the skills necessary to play at 1.2m pace.
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A serious bounty, like $10K+, is worth thinking about, if for no other reason than to prove that it really IS that hard, and is not just sitting there like a marshmallow because only a couple hundred people actually play this game.
Sounds like the perfect bounty to me <Tim>
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If you forced the top LoL, SC, and DOTA teams to stop playing their games and paid them well to play only DK for a year...Dean's MAME score would probably be broken multiple times.
Rest assured if the guys on KT, SKT1, or CJ Entus started playing DK full-time at least one or two of them would break 1.2m within a year, if not sooner.
Rest assured, you are wrong.
As Ethan said:
You really should try to play at 1.15 pace, for a month or two, before you even attempt to comment on the skills required for 1.2; let alone the favorable randomness.
And here's why: 1.2 is only possible when DK is played at the highest level and the game itself is favorable with its randomness. Even if you have all the necessary skills, and even if you play thousands of games, you cannot be guaranteed a 1.2 game. For it to happen, your best game and the RNG have to align. Furthermore, 1.2 is a near cap on scoring. There is nothing new left to discover about DK, so a new player isn't going to find some easier path to 1.2 because there isn't one.
To put things in perspective: It took me somewhere between 4-6 weeks to get my first killscreen. It took me probably another 6 months before I was even 1.05 capable. There are simply too many nuances to point-pressing for a brand new player to reasonably expect to learn it all in a short amount of time.
Take Jeff Willms, for example. He was able to score over a million in only a few months (I think?), but that was with the aid of watching other players stream, such as Dean. Jeff continued to play for months and months after his first million, reaching for that illusive monster game, but never found it. He, like many of us, was turned back when it was realized just how much effort would really have to be poured in, and, frankly, there were better, more rewarding things to do with that time.
I'm not satisfied with my DK high score, but I reached DK satiation long ago. I will eventually return to full out point-pressing DK runs, but only after it again becomes fun to do so.
This is why Vincent is ok with leaving his high score just 2,700 points shy of Hank's record. This is why everyone here is genuinely happy for someone when they achieve a new PB, because in truth, getting a high score in Donkey Kong has always been about defeating the machine, and those of us that have spent hundreds of hours grinding know just what a dirty bitch game it can be.
Neither Hank or Dean stopped playing after they claimed the world record. Both upped their mark many times over, and that's because they wanted to push the game, and themselves, purely for the challenge. To score 1.2, one not only has to be really fucking good, but also obsessed to the point where their desire trumps their frustration.
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Dean spent at least 1 year playing at 1.2m+ pace (and he played hours and hours per week) before getting it. And he played for 4 years before playing at 1.2m pace.
With all the current information on Donkey Kong, someone could possibly get 1.2m within a year from a 10k highscore to 1.2m. But without any motivation impact (like money), it's extremely unlikely for someone to ever do that.
Some world class players play like 15 hours per day on their game to be the best at it. But for Donkey Kong, 15 hours per day is not gonna happen because of the frustration, and how fking boring that would be.
I would say 10% of the current DK members have the skills to put it to 1.2m. But skills alone is nothing compared to the motivation required (and luck) to get 1.2m. Skills and motivation are two different world. I can have the skills to play at 1.2m, but for me the riskiness involved would be way too hard and I would only be able to get a 1.2m pace 10% of the time (and would most likely die before stage 10 because I'm not enough consistent in taking those extra risks). And I would be able to finish a game at 1.2m pace like 0.001% of the time... so, let's do the math: not gonna happen ;-)
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I would say 10% of the current DK members have the skills to put it to 1.2m.
I think that's a generous estimate. I'd place the number somewhere in the 1-2% range.
so, let's do the math
Yes, please do the math. Hang on while I get a bowl of Chex Mix. This should be good. ;)
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if a pot developed for beating that 1st place score I'd be happy to chip in
It would be great if there was an ongoing bounty pot to beat Dean's score. If there was, I would start making point-pressing runs immediately.
There is a growing bounty pot to beat Hank's score offered during the DKOpens, why can't there be a bounty on Dean's score? And if I'm being perfectly honest, I do consider Dean's score to be the true world record - sorry Hank, nothin' but love for you buddy, I hope you know that.
Someone motivate me, and everyone else who has more or less shelved their 1.2 quest.
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There is a growing bounty pot to beat Hank's score offered during the DKOpens, why can't there be a bounty on Dean's score?
There's no good reason why it can't happen, other than indifference. If 50 members of this forum each contributed $10 every 6 months, the bounty would increase by $1,000 annually. I'll even kick in $20 to cover for that inevitable someone, who likes the idea, but can't be bothered to participate.
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if a pot developed for beating that 1st place score I'd be happy to chip in
Someone motivate me, and everyone else who has more or less shelved their 1.2 quest.
There is a growing bounty pot to beat Hank's score offered during the DKOpens, why can't there be a bounty on Dean's score?
There's no good reason why it can't happen, other than indifference. If 50 members of this forum each contributed $10 every 6 months, the bounty would increase by $1,000 annually. I'll even kick in $20 to cover for that inevitable someone, who likes the idea, but can't be bothered to participate.
Let's do this: https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=835.0 (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=835.0)
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You force X amount of players capable of 1.2M pace, to play at 1.2M pace for Y number of hours, and it results in Z number of 1.2M games.
If Y = 1000, and X = 100, solve for Z.
Solution: Z = 100
Why will the above scenario never happen? Because currently there is only 1 person on Earth that has put themselves through the equation above...and there will never be 100 people willing to do so.
It goes without saying that 1.2M is an amazing accomplishment. I will never get close to that.
I do know that once you get to a certain skill level, and put in enough hours for a particular score...it is a fact that you will get there if you keep at it. You just have to play at whatever your pace goal is, for enough hours, and it will happen.
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I agree if you bring in a sample of about 1000 more DK player (not just random people, but gamer who have the mindset to passion to play DK and learn it) that eventually half, if not more, will killscreen. 20% will break a million, 5-10% will break 1.1M, and maybe 1% will get 1.2M.
But the trick is sticking to it and wanting it. That's how all the people who have killscreened, got 1 mill, top 10, got there.
I read this morning on facebook about JCB having an article written about his recent killscreen and how he never gave up. I think it's great he achieved the killscreen, but that was also the mentality of the other 50-60 people who already killscreened. They all kept going until they finally got it (and the others that kept going for 1M, then top 10, etc) and most of us are still going to achieve even higher.
That brings us back to the original topic...maybe MOST aren't still going any more, that's why I called out that first sample of KO1 players, it seems that interest may be finally dieing out.
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Tbh, Jeff Willms could actually get 1.2m relatively quickly if he worked at it.
Maybe so, but that last 6,800 points could be REALLY tough to find! ;-)
Hehe, seriously though, good topic. It's good to see what everyone's thoughts are with respect to their plans for this game.
As for me, I'm pretty much done making a serious effort to improve my skills and my score on this game for now. I'll still occasionally play a game here and there just for fun since it is still one of my all time favorite classic arcade games. I'll try to make an effort to participate in the competitions -- I completely missed the last online tournament which featured some decent prize money and bounty opportunities. I hope to do a better job of carving out a little time to play in future online tournaments -- MAJOR kudos to the guys who are organizing those and are putting up their own hard earned cash to keep those competitions interesting. If live DK competitions and tournaments continue to happen in locations that are favorable to me such as Funspot or New Jersey (driving distance), I will continue to make an effort to attend those as well.
At this time, I continue to choose to avoid pursuing owning my own machine for many personal reasons although I think it would be cool to own one eventually later in life if they still exist. Because of that, and the relatively difficult amount of effort that it would require to get myself in front of a machine, I won't be pursuing the arcade record in any serious or sustained way. As opportunities present themselves once or twice a year I'll take my shot, but as we all know that is not enough time to adequately adjust to the platform or to luck into a favorable game.
If bounties start becoming substantial, it will be interesting to see how the community responds. It would be cool if there were some serious threats to my score, but like Hank, at this point I would sort of like to see my score broken by another player before making more serious attempts and if there was a bounty on my own MAME score I think it would be sort of silly for me to be the one to go after it -- in a sense I would probably disqualify myself from pursuing such a bounty in the spirit of competition. However, I know that if the money became serious, there are extremely talented classic gamers like Ben Falls or Steve Wagner who might "all of a sudden" become excellent DK players (they are already great players, but you know what I mean) and challenge these scores, so I do hope to see those bounties grow.
At this point, if I do continue to spend spare time on this hobby, I'd like to get more involved in sharing knowledge about the game through more forum posts and blog updates, perhaps contributing to Mitch's future "Expert" manual or creating one of my own. I haven't seen a whole lot of strategy talk on the forums lately so maybe it's up to me to get some of that going again.
To all of the players and contributors, keep up the great work and keep having fun with the game!
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great topic. very interesting to read everyones opinions and current dk status. love it!
i do disagree with a few things mentioned about bringing players from top-tier games and having them reach 1.2m in a short period of time. thats pretty much saying that our group of players are less skilled, have less natural ability, and that the reason we choose to play dk/cag titles is because we are not good enough and/or intimidated by the competition on those popular titles(which is total nonsense of course). we have some of the smartest, most capable, fastest learning, insanely talented players in the world competing on CAG titles. thats just what we prefer to play and has nothing to do with avoiding games like sc2 based on tough competition. besides, those competitive games are not like dk. theyre not random to the point of feeling cheated. and lets be honest those dudes wouldnt just fire up dk and grind for a year without making any money. the reason a lot of them(maybe not all of them, but the majority im sure) are so good is that they have a paycheck to look forward to on top of actually enjoying the game theyre playing. they have a reason to play outside of actually playing the game if that makes sense. the reason why deans score is so impressive(not only deans but a lot of the top dk/CAG scores) is that they were achieved by people that simply loved the games/competition/rivalries/new pb's etc.
ross hit the nail on the head when he said you can be totally capable of 1.2m and never reach it based on rng. ive watched dean play plenty of games where he made little to no errors and yet his pace fell below 1.2m simply based on unlucky pie factories/rivets.
Neither Hank or Dean stopped playing after they claimed the world record. Both upped their mark many times over, and that's because they wanted to push the game, and themselves, purely for the challenge. To score 1.2, one not only has to be really fucking good, but also obsessed to the point where their desire trumps their frustration.
this reminded me of a session dean played last year. you(ross) and i were both watching him restart over and over again. it went on for like 5hrs without a start. i remember you saying something like "ok dean i think its time to give it a break, man" as dean had pretty much gone silent with frustration. in fact i dont even think he responded to the comment. he just kept playing. he wasnt going to let that session end until he was satisfied. a few games later he took one to around 700k at 1.2m pace. it was one of the best games id ever watched. its almost like he knew it was coming and just kept plugging away until it happened. thats just one example of a players desire trumping his/her frustration and thats why dean has 1.2m+. that and hes also pretty good at the game <Billy>
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At this point, if I do continue to spend spare time on this hobby, I'd like to get more involved in sharing knowledge about the game through more forum posts and blog updates, perhaps contributing to Mitch's future "Expert" manual or creating one of my own.
That'd be great, Dean! As of right now, I'm giving the manual a rest and then (probably this summer) I will eventually do the last finishing up of the (Beginner's" manual (mainly adding picture, but also cleaning up some sections' grammar/setup). I may not start serious work on actually typing up the "Expert's" manual until next summer (of 2015), but I'll probably start slowly working on a fairly comprehensive outline until then. If you have any ideas, or if you wanna start working on certain topics (or even propose a general outline), feel free to PM me and we can collaborate. As of right now, the main issue is motivation. It helps to have several people working on something like this to make it less work per person and to draw off of each person's "bursts" of motivation. Also, tbh, I feel like the "Expert's" manual is almost gonna be like 4x harder to do, as it will be comprehensive. Because of this, I'll probably try to use the beginner's manual as a sort of skeleton to build off of.
Also, if there are any other people that would like to contribute to this idea (whether it is just providing your writing/editing/graphics skill or contributing DK knowledge/content), PM me up.
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Just like we will probably never see a SC2 or LoL player make a serious run at 1.2, 1.1, or even 1M...the same probably holds true for any DK player making a run at the pro ranked scene of SC2 or League of Legends.
I would love to see (actually it would be awesome if anyone wanted to play some LoL) if anyone here could/would play an LoL account up to Level 30 (takes around 2 months with moderate play, must make it to L30 before allowed to play ranked games), start out in Bronze ranked, and make it into Silver (considered above average ranked player) or a higher tier of League of Legends (Bronze 5 is the lowest, then goes Silver 1-5, Gold 1-5, Platinum 1-5, Diamond 1-5, and finally Challenger is the highest you can get).
I've put maybe a little less, but very close to the same amount of time/effort into League of Legends as I have for DK, and I currently sit in Silver 4 division of the ranked ladder (barely above average). Here is a chart that explains the LoL tier player distribution numbers, I think from last year's season (C is the Challenger League, the absolute top):
http://i.imgur.com/Bqln4yy.png (http://i.imgur.com/Bqln4yy.png)
The interesting thing is, if DK has the RNG, the League of Legends equivalent would be "trolls". Being ranked games (solo queue) must be played with 5 random players, you often find yourself with a troll on your team that plays really stupidly, rage quits, is AFK for the entire game, or just feeds the enemy team kills...making it essentially impossible to win that particular ranked game. Very similar to a rivet or PF screen "trolling" you, killing off all your men.
You can play well, be a team player, do all the right things...yet still go several games in a row without a win...pushing you further down the ranked ladder. Just like you can go several hours playing DK without a start, or making any progress at all.
In the end I can only speak from my experiences...if i've got a few KS's and a couple 1M games under my belt (maybe placing me somewhere in the middle of 'Diamond' tier of DK players...close to the top but not top tier), and can only muster Silver 4 in LoL (barely above the 50th %ile mark)...and I have put in the same amount of time/effort...does that mean I am just a crappy LoL player, maybe different people are better at different games, maybe I am a LoL troll myself...or is the competition and games like LoL/SC2 legitimately more difficult than DK?
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I know nothing of League of Legends, but from your description it sounds like you are essentially mostly reliant on your team and if your team is not up to snuff or has some players that are playing poorly on purpose, your career ranking suffers. I assume maybe when you get to a certain level, you will get assigned better players and that doesn't happen as much? CAGs can cheat every now and then (Crazy Climber, I'm looking at you), but you will never be penalized for playing too many bad games of a title in anticipation of a breakthrough or great game....and......
"You are always in control" <Wiebe>
Unless I'm playing collaborative Joust or Mario Bros, I only rely on myself for success. They seem like dissimilar experiences to me. Unless BEA shows up at my house and keeps hitting the jump button randomly during my games or something.
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mike - Its the same in Titanfall or COD or Halo or any matchmaking type team game. It really doesnt matter if your the #1 player on COD if you get on a scrub team you will lose period. That is why "good" players want to team up and be on the same team.
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Yea I agree with you guys. I was trying to throw out some data and add to the discussion regarding, are DK players better gamers or more skilled than SC2 or LoL players.
pwn - Yes, one of the hardest things to do in LoL is break out of the Bronze/Silver tiers, and make it to Gold and up...where there are less trolls and people that leave the game...
Over a span of a few hundred games...the argument is that if you yourself are a "good" player...you should and will climb the rankings...based on the fact that if you are on your team...that leaves 4 open spots for "bad players"...but on the opposing team, there are 5 open spots for bad players...and thus in the long run, there will be more trolls and bad players on the team you are playing.
Kinda like the RNG in DK. Over the span of hundreds of hours of play, the RNG will give you that "easy game" of DK...and if you play properly, you will make to the KS, get 1M, or break the WR.
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I'm not a ko1'er, but I'm glad to hear how everyone is doing. As for myself, I've really lost interest since ko3. I've tried to get a fire back, but just can't. I still want to play, but when I sit down to start, I stop after a few restarts. I've gotten more involved in other things like playing with my kids, spending time with Jessi, restoring and buying a few more arcade machines. Now I've gotten into pinball a little. I'm trying to start up another business, and build an addition onto the house. Life is too busy. Before, I was always this busy, but the fire over-rode the busy life, and I made time to play, and put everything else to the side. I now realize that's not good, especially when it comes to time with my kids. I know I'm not done playing though. Every time I've played since ko3, it's been at a pace of over 1.1 for the most part. I still want to hit that goal. I've taken this game a lot further than I ever thought I could. I remember just starting to play it 3 years ago, and my buddy Dana joked how someday I'll hit a million, and break the record, and be in kong off. I laughed at that notion of his, as at the time I was barely hitting 100k, but loved it. Kong has made me many new friends that I want to remain in contact with. I was very disappointed to have kong off move to NJ, although I understand the reasoning. Nothing negative towards NJ, but it's a lot more cost efficient for me to go to Denver. I don't fly, I'm a chicken, so it's a long drive now too. Depending on Ko4 setup, I still want to go, but it will be more difficult now. Mainly I want to see all of the people I have befriended, and enjoy spending time with. Kong has provided me much more than ever expected, and I hope it continues to keep us all in touch throughout our lives. This is a great hobby, game, and community.
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I now realize that's not good, especially when it comes to time with my kids.
That's a very good thing to keep in perspective. A while back, a lot of the KO1ers reinforced to me that real life ought to come first before DK. That's a great principle to remember. Even when I was working on the manual, I made sure that I finished my necessary HW and studies first. It's not worth screwing up your real life over. And, besides, if you keep everything in its proper place, lots of good things will result from it. As you've already mentioned, DK has brought you lots of new friends and fun experiences. I think almost all of us can agree with this. DK, when played for the joy of making new friends and relationships has been a big plus in my own life. Even when I've played the game with simply a mind towards improving personal perseverance and self-control, I'd say the game has been a good tool towards cultivating virtue. However, whenever it has been played to become the best above all else, it has only turned into headaches, frustration, and wasted time (oh Kong...).
Sorry to hear about how the KO4 switching to NJ affects things for you. I hope you can still find a way to make it!
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I don't fly, I'm a chicken, so it's a long drive now too.
Just drink at the bar before the flight, always works for me
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I'm not a ko1'er, but I'm glad to hear how everyone is doing. As for myself, I've really lost interest since ko3. I've tried to get a fire back, but just can't. I still want to play, but when I sit down to start, I stop after a few restarts. I've gotten more involved in other things like playing with my kids, spending time with Jessi, restoring and buying a few more arcade machines. Now I've gotten into pinball a little. I'm trying to start up another business, and build an addition onto the house. Life is too busy. Before, I was always this busy, but the fire over-rode the busy life, and I made time to play, and put everything else to the side. I now realize that's not good, especially when it comes to time with my kids. I know I'm not done playing though. Every time I've played since ko3, it's been at a pace of over 1.1 for the most part. I still want to hit that goal. I've taken this game a lot further than I ever thought I could. I remember just starting to play it 3 years ago, and my buddy Dana joked how someday I'll hit a million, and break the record, and be in kong off. I laughed at that notion of his, as at the time I was barely hitting 100k, but loved it. Kong has made me many new friends that I want to remain in contact with. I was very disappointed to have kong off move to NJ, although I understand the reasoning. Nothing negative towards NJ, but it's a lot more cost efficient for me to go to Denver. I don't fly, I'm a chicken, so it's a long drive now too. Depending on Ko4 setup, I still want to go, but it will be more difficult now. Mainly I want to see all of the people I have befriended, and enjoy spending time with. Kong has provided me much more than ever expected, and I hope it continues to keep us all in touch throughout our lives. This is a great hobby, game, and community.
Great post Steve, and I hope you are able to make it out to NJ as well (take Robbie's advice and drink heavily before your flight Kappa).
I share a lot of these points with you. It is tough to sit down and go for 1.1M. I often quit after 15min of trying for a decent start. There also seems to be fewer and fewer days where a 3-4 hour block of time is available to even attempt putting up a high score.
The more I think about the potential new format for the KO4, the more I like it. I played around 17 hours of DK at the KO3 and barely got to hang out and talk with everyone. Even if the KO4 is single elimination, and I get knocked out first thing, I would be fine with it because I would be able to relax and have fun...talk with other players and watch the matches.
I hope you make it out to NJ if you're able, best of luck to ya!
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Pretty much the same thing happened with me, Steve. After my 1,135,900, I wanted to be done with Donkey Kong and move on to other priorities. Although my goal was to get the WR, I felt enough happy with 1,135,900.
For the first 4 years, my priority was definitely Donkey Kong for the most part (the amount of time playing/watching was definitely fking high!). But for the last months, I changed my priority.
However, now that I'm more set up with my family/job/apartment, there's no reason for me not to go back to DK. Donkey Kong, for me, is all about friendship, and I need to spend time with my friends (no homo) BibleThump.
For the past months, I've neglected my friends, and it's now time to get involved more in the community and try again for some Donkey Kong.
What I learned these past few months: It doesn't matter what I decide to do in my life, the whole Donkey Kong stuff will always be a priority in my life. It's because it's where all started for me.
And the main thing I will ever be proud of in my life is definitely what I accomplished with Donkey Kong. Not only because I invested so much time in accomplishing the goal I had with Donkey Kong, but also because my Donkey Kong journey is what started everything in my life (fk yer I had a fking retarded life before <Allen>)
Everybody can have kids, a house, a nice job, friends, etc. But only one person can have the dedication and skills to be the best at Donkey Kong. (Yeah that's pretty much Dean, lol). Bring it on, b*tch!
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I didn't go to the KO1, but I was around the DK scene at the time and was a kill screen player. DK wasn't my first rodeo in competitive gaming so it was not something that defined me as a gamer. It was just another game that I was interested in and tried my best at for a while because I had seen TKoK and wanted to see how I could do on what Billy called "the hardest game". I did pretty well on the game and felt like I was among the top players while I was actively playing. Even though I was near the top of the DK ladder, I decided to call it quits although I did so with great difficulty. This game is really hard to let go of. It didn't help that I was having a lot of problems in my life at the same time, but those are in the past now.
Now I'm married and have a 3 month old child. All I can say is that life is pretty good now. When we have family gatherings at my place, I fire up the arcade games so that people can play. I usually play DK for a few minutes, but then I let someone else play and go hang out with my guests.