Donkey Kong Forum

General Donkey Kong Discussion => General Donkey Kong Discussion => Topic started by: homerwannabee on February 24, 2019, 06:18:32 pm

Title: Should the upside down ladder trick on the pie factory count?
Post by: homerwannabee on February 24, 2019, 06:18:32 pm
OK, just a few minutes ago John McCurdy for the 2nd time in two weeks performed what I call the upside down ladder trick.  So why am I asking this question?  Because I think a tactic like this should be settled if/when he breaks the world record in Donkey Kong.  There is a decent enough of a chance now that he might perform the trick during his record run.

Let me preface, that I think the trick should count.  It's hard to pull off, and it adds a new way of playing the game.  Here's what I call the pros and cons.

Pro: It's extremely hard to pull off
Pro: It doesn't magically give you any extra men, or extra points
Pro: There is something similar that you can do with Crazy Kong where you can end the level by jumping on the bottom of the barrel board in a special way, and it does count, although it didn't count before.
Pro: It would be very cool to see something like this in competition.

Con: It is still an obvious glitch in the game, and if you are purest, you don't want to see glitches used in high score games.

So what say you?  Should The Upside Down trick count? (Yes, I stole the name off of Stranger Things)

Here's the trick that McCurdy pulled off while playing on Twitter.

https://www.twitch.tv/serphintizer/clip/ClumsyBashfulTardigradeYouDontSay?filter=clips&range=30d&sort=time
Title: Re: Should the upside down ladder trick on the pie factory count?
Post by: M.Schrock on February 24, 2019, 07:16:38 pm
I have never seen that before. Thats crazy how do you perform that move?
Title: Re: Should the upside down ladder trick on the pie factory count?
Post by: Flobeamer1922 on February 24, 2019, 08:15:43 pm
It involves using the retracting ladder to position Mario in such a way that, with some tricky up and down movements, it's possible to put him in a state where he's permanently climbing.
Title: Re: Should the upside down ladder trick on the pie factory count?
Post by: Mitch Mitchell on February 24, 2019, 09:32:00 pm
I don't think it should be allowed in a WR submission, its a glitch that circumvents having to avoid the fireballs at the top of the factory, which is a key component to finishing the stage.

Title: Re: Should the upside down ladder trick on the pie factory count?
Post by: jwade614 on February 24, 2019, 09:33:39 pm
Of course it should be allowed.
Title: Re: Should the upside down ladder trick on the pie factory count?
Post by: CaptainJivePants on February 26, 2019, 06:36:40 am
I see no reason why it shouldn't be allowed. It's not like it completely breaks or changes the game. It's just one more tool in the utility belt of experts as is. If it really skews scores and the game somehow, you can always keep track of scores with and without using the glitch.
Title: Re: Should the upside down ladder trick on the pie factory count?
Post by: Pearl on February 26, 2019, 04:07:06 pm
it doesnt gain you any score, it will only have a very limited niche use as a backup strategy to clear the stage
Title: Re: Should the upside down ladder trick on the pie factory count?
Post by: Flobeamer1922 on February 26, 2019, 05:05:41 pm
I don't see why it shouldn't be allowed. As stated previously, it doesn't aid in scoring at all, and it's a rather hard trick to pull off.
Title: Re: Should the upside down ladder trick on the pie factory count?
Post by: hooch66 on February 27, 2019, 08:07:19 am
It's amazing that tricks like these keep coming to light in a game that is so old and played so much.
Title: Re: Should the upside down ladder trick on the pie factory count?
Post by: LMDAVE on February 27, 2019, 12:18:49 pm
Funny I’ve never seen or heard of that one. I wouldn’t necessarily say it doesn’t aid in points. Once you are blocked by  getting up the ladder you are forced to abandon that side and take the timer point loss and make your way to the other side, now if you can say that it’s the exact timer point loss, then there’s no difference. But you can also run Into trouble going back to the other side. Either way, I would like to see that trick avoided in a real game.
Title: Re: Should the upside down ladder trick on the pie factory count?
Post by: bh on February 27, 2019, 05:19:13 pm
Con: It is still an obvious glitch in the game, and if you are purest, you don't want to see glitches used in high score games.

I want to see glitches used. This isn't Twin Galaxies.
Title: Re: Should the upside down ladder trick on the pie factory count?
Post by: andrewg on February 27, 2019, 09:20:24 pm
always questioned whether the broken ladder climb would have any other effects. Possible to do this on other broken ladders??? Ie: kill screens skiiiiiip?
Title: Re: Should the upside down ladder trick on the pie factory count?
Post by: andrewg on February 27, 2019, 09:26:37 pm
Also 100% it should be allowed. We didn't ban jumping next to dk did we?

Does anyone know why this occurs?
Title: Re: Should the upside down ladder trick on the pie factory count?
Post by: Jonesy on February 27, 2019, 10:39:28 pm
This is a new one for me!

When I read the title I asssumed George had been on the smoke.

I don't see any reason as to why it shouldn't be allowed.

Title: Re: Should the upside down ladder trick on the pie factory count?
Post by: SithOfSpades on February 28, 2019, 05:30:46 am
always questioned whether the broken ladder climb would have any other effects. Possible to do this on other broken ladders??? Ie: kill screens skiiiiiip?

This was discussed here: https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=325.0 (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=325.0). It appears you can't pass the KS going up, but I don't know if anyone tried going down. Once you get into no mans land using the trick, maybe you can go down past the bottom and finish the screen.
Title: Re: Should the upside down ladder trick on the pie factory count?
Post by: Sock Master on February 28, 2019, 07:26:41 am
This glitch relies on an interaction between the broken ladder glitch (the bottom half of the retractable ladders on pies is a broken ladder) and the retractable ladder (top half of the retractable ladders).

I still haven't pieced together exactly what the mechanism is but it seems to have something to do with using the broken ladder glitch to shift Jumpman's position, probably while the retractable ladder also shifts Jumpman's position, which then interferes with Jumpman's ladder dismount code (which relies on Jumpman's ladder climb animation cycles lining up with the tops and bottoms of ladders).  If Jumpman's Y position and climb cycle don't align with the Y positions of the ends of the ladders it misses detecting when he has reached the end of a ladder and doesn't dismount.

It doesn't seem like this glitch would work without the retractable ladder, so it'll only work on Pies.
Title: Re: Should the upside down ladder trick on the pie factory count?
Post by: andrewg on February 28, 2019, 07:34:38 am
The glitch is super similar to the NES DK glitch in 1-1:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/380176210?t=03s

I always wondered whether something like this could be done on arcade... and I guess so on the pies. But I wouldn't be too surprised if there really is a way to pass the KS.