Donkey Kong Forum
Related Games => Donkey Kong Junior => Topic started by: ChrisP on April 07, 2013, 04:45:56 pm
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Cool! I have now broken 100K. PB is now 111,100 at 6-1.
My pace is hideous, but I'm gonna be honest: I have no intentions of ever point-pressing this game.
With DK, point-pressing is interesting because there is a strong correlation between getting more points per board and an increase in both risk and skill.
Not only is this not true in Junior (most of the time), but the opposite is true. Most point-pressing techniques are of the "leeching" variety and are a boring non-challenge (spark-jumping being the epitome of this). It just isn't fun at all, and it drags on and on and on. I want to move forward to the next thing that actually tests me, not bring the gameplay to a screeching halt by mindlessly jumping over stuff for five minutes!
We'll see how I feel when I eventually get a kill screen, but I don't see million point attempts in my future. I've watched Ben suffer through enough of it over the last few days.
Biggest helps so far:
- My Donkey Kong Junior arcade strategies with commentary,tips, and tricks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF7PCY7zZfk#) (George Riley)
- Donkey Kong Jr. - Strategy for 4th level and beyond. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxgYFWe4F-Q#) (don't know who this is)
- http://www.twitch.tv/up2ng/c/1270075 (http://www.twitch.tv/up2ng/c/1270075) (Part 1-5 of Dean's Junior springboard patterns)
- Watching Ben
- Something I can't remember at the moment...
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With DK, point-pressing is interesting because there is a strong correlation between getting more points per board and an increase in both risk and skill.
Not only is this not true in Junior (most of the time), but the opposite is true. Most point-pressing techniques are of the "leeching" variety and are a boring non-challenge (spark-jumping being the epitome of this). It just isn't fun at all, and it drags on and on and on. I want to move forward to the next thing that actually tests me, not bring the gameplay to a screeching halt by mindlessly jumping over stuff for five minutes!
I can't say that I totally agree with this. Yes, most of the points are going to unfortunately come from the Hideout spark-jumping..but you really have to do it to get a very high score. But, taking that away, going for 300-400k more than the very basic and boring leeching needed for 1 million requires a little more experience, knowledge of nuances and risk-taking than meets the eye. I'm really not trying to start/perpetuate a debate because there are too many people who dislike the game out there to argue with, so you'll just have to trust me I guess haha. That said, having played both of course, obviously running boards to a killscreen, Junior is ten times easier...but you can also make it very, very tough trying to squeeze out every point.
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Cool! I have now broken 100K. PB is now 111,100 at 6-1.
With DK, point-pressing is interesting because there is a strong correlation between getting more points per board and an increase in both risk and skill.
Not only is this not true in Junior (most of the time), but the opposite is true. Most point-pressing techniques are of the "leeching" variety and are a boring non-challenge (spark-jumping being the epitome of this). It just isn't fun at all, and it drags on and on and on. I want to move forward to the next thing that actually tests me, not bring the gameplay to a screeching halt by mindlessly jumping over stuff for five minutes!
Well first thanks for the shout out, and second I think what you are saying is true from 800,000 to 1 million. If you can get 800,000 in Donkey Kong Junior you should be able to get 1,000,000 as well, but I do feel getting any higher, and you will have to increase the skill level. Junior is a game where it's easy to throw away points, and getting to a higher level means doing riskier moves, and just being more efficient with Junior.
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I will defer to you guys on the point-pressing stuff, and most definitely on the finer points of it, since that's all way beyond my current level.
Reading my post again, I probably should have said "at this point, it seems to me..." because if I were to put the time into learning those things, I'm sure I would find that there's more to it.
It's really the snapper and spark leeching that I can't handle!
But the main "meat" of the game is really fun.
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Still struggling on this damned game.
Although I love it, it frustrates the hell out of me. Pressing to max each board i'm finding pretty tough at the moment and as George stated it's easy to throw points away, especially on the vines from level 4 and jump timing is critical.
Still stuck at 837,500 but rather than aiming for just the kill screen it would be nice to get there with 1M points.
Well done on your progress man and yeah, the Hideout can be a real bore!
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182,200 7-4!
Not bad hitting almost 200K just a little over a day after first crossing 100K.
I love that breakout phase on these games, when you're getting into the groove and your personal best starts shooting up quickly.
Though soon will come the inevitable plateau and the honeymoon will end.
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I couldn't stay away from my "hard version" PCB. As I learn more nuances of the "regular" version, I'm able to see more in this version.
Now that I'm getting better I see that chains actually isn't that bad with the weird flight paths. You actually get something in exchange for the fact that they dip lower, you have a bigger "pocket" in which to maneuver yourself and the keys in the upper quadrant. You just have to set everything up in a way that doesn't rely on the safe spot, which seems doable.
The springboard birds are just a nightmare though. They go lower and are also more tightly-spaced, which makes it just different enough that the existing patterns just don't work. I'm gonna have to come up with my own.
Also, I was thinking of getting in touch with the guy who owns HobbyROMS.com about my board. I could send my two ROM chips to him, have him dump the data and send it to me, and I could then give it to the MAME people/all of you (and while he's at it, have him burn me the correct chips). I'll see how much he wants to charge for that.
I got this Junior board kind of by accident, and I almost sold it immediately but now that I've given the game a chance I'm glad I didn't.
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Chris, it looks like you and me are currently at about the same level on DKjr (albeit, you are playing on a harder version). I'm sitting at about 130k every game (literally, +/- 5k) at over a 1.1m pace, I still just need to get consistent at the hard bird stage. Looks like you're already getting that down, so I need to kick it in gear a bit more. Wanna race?! :P Just kidding, no need to make ourselves suffer that much!
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Boom baby!
If it's a race I think I just pulled way ahead!
I just played in MAME and got 383,900 L12-4! I more than doubled my personal best in a single game. It's coming fast now, I think I've got this game pretty much figured out.
It's funny, I decided today to start recording INPs and after two false starts, this game happened.
I think my hard-as-shit ROM might have accelerated my ability to play the normal version.
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Woah! Pretty soon you'll be the best all-around DK player! ;) Now you just need to play DK3, since, if I remember right, you're already are decent at Crazy Kong and D2K. Giving Ben a run for his money! JK JK (had to be said :P )
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Believe it or not, I have been playing some DK3.
It's not coming that easily for me. I didn't get a million on my third try or anything!
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Wow,
Great progress in a short time!!
I hope my recent Springboard level video helped you on your way ;) Lol!
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@ChrisP Once you break 300K, it's a free ride to the killscreen. Enjoy the ride!
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@ChrisP Once you break 300K, it's a free ride to the killscreen. Enjoy the ride!
Tell that to Dean Saglio. He broke 300k years ago, and still hasn't hit the killscreen. Granted he doesn't play it a ton, but it's not always a free ride.
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Tell that to Dean Saglio. He broke 300k years ago, and still hasn't hit the killscreen. Granted he doesn't play it a ton, but it's not always a free ride.
OK, I should have added if you don't point press. When Dean reaches the killscreen I'm sure it will be a WR.
When I broke 300K I was confident I could killscreen the game. My high score by week: 125K, 250K, 740K. Obviously I had help, but even without help I think if had gotten 300K on my own, I would have felt the same way. Ben and Wag had similar experiences. In fact, Ben said something even crazier... like he went from 80K to a killscreen. (Again none of us point pressed on our first killscreens.) The learning curve on Jr. is much different than say for DK. It wasn't until I reached about 600K on DK that I felt I could killscreen the game. Even then it took lots of work.
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Tell that to Dean Saglio. He broke 300k years ago, and still hasn't hit the killscreen. Granted he doesn't play it a ton, but it's not always a free ride.
OK, I should have added if you don't point press. When Dean reaches the killscreen I'm sure it will be a WR.
When I broke 300K I was confident I could killscreen the game. My high score by week: 125K, 250K, 740K. Obviously I had help, but even without help I think if had gotten 300K on my own, I would have felt the same way. Ben and Wag had similar experiences. In fact, Ben said something even crazier... like he went from 80K to a killscreen. (Again none of us point pressed on our first killscreens.) The learning curve on Jr. is much different than say for DK. It wasn't until I reached about 600K on DK that I felt I could killscreen the game. Even then it took lots of work.
Wow 740K in 3 weeks! Insanely incredible! First off, I am beginning to think your intelligence is the upper 99.99%. You by far are not a good example for how long it takes to learn this game. I am going to make a list of super gifted gamers who are not good examples for how long it takes to learn a game. So for the average gamer or slightly better than average gamer like myself these are definitely people not to listen to as far as how long it takes to do really well on any Arcade/MAME game.
They are
Mike Casper
Hank Chien
Ben Falls
Donald Hayes
Billy Mitchell
Todd Rogers
Dean Saglio (Yeah, I listed him which does make me a hypocrite to a certain extent.) :)
Tom Votava
Steve Wagner
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George, even with pressing, DKjr is a significantly easier game to killscreen than DK in terms of the actual skills needed. Patience is probably the hardest hurdle for DKjr. I've play DKjr on 3 separate occasions for about 2 hours, and I am at about 130k. Once I get the fast springboard stage down (which is where I lose 75% of my lives) I feel as though I'll be home free. And I am playing at about a 1.05m pace, I believe. I'm also playing standing up (and for a tall guy, that is not easy on these Nintendo cabs!). Maybe it is just easy after already playing DK so much, but I feel as though eventually the only stage you actually need to worry about is he chains stage (and maybe the springboards stage still a little), but it's nothing compared to the risk of the DK rivets and conveyors. Just my opinion, but I think there's truth to it, and it's not mainly just about whether or not someone is a special type of gamer.
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George, even with pressing, DKjr is a significantly easier game to killscreen than DK in terms of the actual skills needed. Patience is probably the hardest hurdle for DKjr. I've play DKjr on 3 separate occasions for about 2 hours, and I am at about 130k. Once I get the fast springboard stage down (which is where I lose 75% of my lives) I feel as though I'll be home free. And I am playing at about a 1.05m pace, I believe. I'm also playing standing up (and for a tall guy, that is not easy on these Nintendo cabs!). Maybe it is just easy after already playing DK so much, but I feel as though eventually the only stage you actually need to worry about is he chains stage (and maybe the springboards stage still a little), but it's nothing compared to the risk of the DK rivets and conveyors. Just my opinion, but I think there's truth to it, and it's not mainly just about whether or not someone is a special type of gamer.
OK, it's apparent you are pretty quick at learning games as well. It took me at least a couple of months to get to 130k. I am going to have to include you in the list.
Exceptional gamers who don't represent what it takes the average or slightly above average gamer in regards to time to learn a game.
Mike Casper
Hank Chien
Mitchell Elliot
Ben Falls
Donald Hayes
Billy Mitchell
Todd Rogers
Dean Saglio
Tom Votava
Steve Wagner
Edit: I am not arguing that Donkey Kong is easier. Yeah, I agree that it is harder. My whole point is Donkey Kong Junior is not as easy as a game to master as some people are making it out to be. Anyone who is killscreening this game within 2 months time is someone in my opinion is an exceptional gamer. I consider myself slightly above average as a gamer, and it took me a LONG time to get to the killscreen. The people who are doing great at this game are the exceptional gamers. Most people like myself take a tad bit longer to master the game.
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I think there is truth to what both of you are saying.
What it comes down to, I think, isn't so much raw talent or how "good a gamer" you are but more the efficiency of the learning process that you employ and to what degree you avail yourself of the modern tools and information at your disposal. But that's more "meta game."
I am progressing quickly for two reasons:
First, MAME. MAME is huge if you take full advantage of it. I save-stated like crazy the springboard and the chains, isolating it down to specific spots, doing it over and over until I got it. (Same for the hideout, which requires some tight execution to pop the "danger spark.")
Second, I am playing within a community that includes literally all of the best players in the world. I've been watching Ben almost every night, I downloaded Brian Allen's MARP game to dissect his pace, etc., then there was the video where you (George) spell everything out.
There's so much help out there when you go looking for it and are resourceful about finding it. Significantly more help than even a few years ago. It massively cuts down on the time needed to learn the game.
And back in the day, when there was no MAME and not much if any help, killscreening was a different proposition entirely. If you could reach a killscreen then within a few weeks/months, THAT would suggest a lot more in the way of raw talent because you had to do it on your own.
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OK, that works for me Chris. Yeah, I didn't use any save states, and there wasn't as many helpful videos out there. :)
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so it's good my name is not listed here.. Confused much Yep
Tell that to Dean Saglio. He broke 300k years ago, and still hasn't hit the killscreen. Granted he doesn't play it a ton, but it's not always a free ride.
OK, I should have added if you don't point press. When Dean reaches the killscreen I'm sure it will be a WR.
When I broke 300K I was confident I could killscreen the game. My high score by week: 125K, 250K, 740K. Obviously I had help, but even without help I think if had gotten 300K on my own, I would have felt the same way. Ben and Wag had similar experiences. In fact, Ben said something even crazier... like he went from 80K to a killscreen. (Again none of us point pressed on our first killscreens.) The learning curve on Jr. is much different than say for DK. It wasn't until I reached about 600K on DK that I felt I could killscreen the game. Even then it took lots of work.
Wow 740K in 3 weeks! Insanely incredible! First off, I am beginning to think your intelligence is the upper 99.99%. You by far are not a good example for how long it takes to learn this game. I am going to make a list of super gifted gamers who are not good examples for how long it takes to learn a game. So for the average gamer or slightly better than average gamer like myself these are definitely people not to listen to as far as how long it takes to do really well on any Arcade/MAME game.
They are
Mike Casper
Hank Chien
Ben Falls
Donald Hayes
Billy Mitchell
Todd Rogers
Dean Saglio (Yeah, I listed him which does make me a hypocrite to a certain extent.) :)
Tom Votava
Steve Wagner
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so it's good my name is not listed here.. Confused much Yep
You told me that you spent a ton of time on Donkey Kong Junior. I don't remember you getting 740k in 3 weeks for Donkey Kong Junior. It took you a very long time to reach that score. So how is that confusing? You still have not reached the killscreen in Donkey Kong as well. You are in the average to slightly above average gamer when it comes actually learning a game.
Look I am not talking about a persons accomplishments. What I am talking about is how quickly a person learns a game. Ben Falls is a good example. It took him what? One day to reach his score on Dark Tower? How long did it take you to beat that score back? A very long time. Again I am not talking about what you have accomplished. I am talking about the rate at which a person learns a game.
Like me you have had to put in a ton of time into getting the scores that you achieved. In a way that is more admirable because this did not come easy for you or me with certain games at least. You are a great gamer because you put a lot of time at it. You are not a great gamer because you are a natural at it.
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so it's good my name is not listed here.. Confused much Yep
Why is it that you take to heart so personally, every single list someone makes that does not feature your name?
By the way, this is a perfect opportunity to mention that the shiny, new list forum featured on this site, is up, available and ready for action!
Meanwhile at the Hall of Justice....
There are countless folks not listed that I could name that are easily among the very best at becoming elite at a game at a very fast pace. I don't see them in here complaining they weren't name checked. They don't seek constant validation, their play does that for them...
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Why is it that you take to heart so personally, every single list someone makes that does not feature your name?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Easy for you to say, mister make-the-list...(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-angry002.gif)
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Me neither, my name wasn't listed, and I don't mind. In fact, I think I've been the slowest learner DK learner of all-time (Allen doesn't count, he's unbeatable in that category).
In fact, Ben said something even crazier... like he went from 80K to a killscreen.
Hahaha, this is funny. I imagine Ben Falls saying:"Wow, I reached 80k!... now I know I have the skills to kill screen it on my next attempt!" haha.
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Why is it that you take to heart so personally, every single list someone makes that does not feature your name?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Easy for you to say, mister make-the-list...(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-angry002.gif)
OK, pretty sure that was sarcasm with a ring of truth connected to it. Well congratulations. You made the list!
Mike Casper
Hank Chien
Mitchell Elliot
Ben Falls
Donald Hayes
Mark Kiehl
Billy Mitchell
Todd Rogers
Dean Saglio
Tom Votava
Steve Wagner
Like Vincent said, his ascension in Donkey Kong was not the quickest, and he doesn't make the list.
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Who said i was taking this Personaly?
When it comes to Dark Tower .. I had change the way i was playing the Level 40 Boss.. That tolk alittle time to figure out a different Patteren to that screen.
BTW Ben had watched me play Dark Tower in Streams just before he played the game .. So he was'nt going into the game Blind.
I take pride that Ben Played Dark Tower.
Ben is a great player. He has alot of skills in Many games . He's a great friend i enjoy sitting and watching his stream.
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Who said i was taking this Personaly?
Maybe personally wasn't the right word. Too seriously, perhaps? It's not a knock everytime someone comes up with a list (once again, list forum is available kids!) and your name is not on it.
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Ty Steve but i think i made my point... Don'nt care really anyways
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Ty Steve but i think i made my point... Don'nt care really anyways
Over the years I feel you have grown more, and more arrogant. I think you think that you are not only a better gamer than me, but you think it's not even close. Else you wouldn't have said anything since I left my name off of the list, and said I am an average to slightly better than average gamer.
That's too bad Brian. I really hope you don't turn into a Rudy Ferreti, and get an even more over exaggerated sense of yourself. I was willing to play the "We are equals" card with you, but that doesn't seem good enough any more. Ironically over the years I probably have gone in the opposite direction. The more I continue on this journey, the more I realize just how many outstanding gamers there are that I am nowhere close to being in their league.
If you want to believe that you are in a different league than me, than sure have it it. Your the better gamer, if it means that much to you.
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OK, pretty sure that was sarcasm...
Yeah it was. I was just kidding around with Steve.
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George I never said I'm any better then you are.
Yes i noticed you where not on this list. Thats why i was confused if i should be on this list or not.Has nothing to do with you personaly.
I would rather not have my Name said that much anyways at the moment...
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I would rather not have my Name said that much anyways at the moment...
Uh-oh. Guess I better make a change to the Staal soundboard. ;D
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I would rather not have my Name said that much anyways at the moment...
Uh-oh. Guess I better make a change to the Staal soundboard. ;D
Don't you dare! ;D
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Again, all this listing of who is better at something has become quite obnoxious. I find this list even more silly because of the fact that what is being called "skill" is actually just a combination of knowledge and practice/execution-familiarity.
People that pick up games quickly almost always have one of these two characteristics when it comes to the game they are playing. For me personally, I grew up with almost zero gaming in my background, so I knew I needed to learn a lot and play a lot before I would start seeing the fruit. I know that the only reason I am getting good at some of these games is due to much study of the techniques and much practice. After a while of doing this with certain games, it becomes easier to do this with others. Since I've done this with DK, it helps with DKjr. I'm sure if I did this with Galaga, it would help with Galaxian (since they are similar types of games). You get the picture.
Another example is that one of my personal goals is to master one of each type of classic game that I can find with a different control scheme. I am doing this very intentionally for the very purpose of becoming a better, all-around gamer since it will help with one of the aspects of a "skilled" gamer that I mentioned: Execution-familiarity.
What I'm getting at is that it's not like there is (generally speaking) really some sort of innate ability that some people have and some people don't when it comes to these games. This isn't poker; and none of us are Rain Men. We all simply draw off of the experience we have with other games to affect how quickly we can pick up a new game. We also draw off of the sources of knowledge that we have about the game we are trying to learn. If anything ought to be praised, it is a player's 1) perseverance/patience/practice, 2) knowledge, what is gained only by means of themselves, as well as from others, and how effectively/efficiently they incorporate it into their gameplay, and 3) their kindness to other players when they do choose to share what they have learned with others. These things are (generally) the only thing that really sets apart one gamer from another IMHO.
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For the fact that theres somethings out there with my name out on it... I have'nt gotten a copy of it .. Or was asked if they could use it.
Even though someone else says my Name in a Stream or a Sound Bite. You would think they'd ask the person before hand.
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What I'm getting at is that it's not like there is (generally speaking) really some sort of innate ability that some people have and some people don't when it comes to these games.
So Billy Mitchell was wrong?
"It's in your DNA" -Billy Mitchell
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For the fact that theres somethings out there with my name out on it... I have'nt gotten a copy of it .. Or was asked if they could use it.
Even though someone else says my Name in a Stream or a Sound Bite. You would think they'd ask the person before hand.
What on earth are you talking about? :o
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What I'm getting at is that it's not like there is (generally speaking) really some sort of innate ability that some people have and some people don't when it comes to these games.
So Billy Mitchell was wrong?
"It's in your DNA" -Billy Mitchell
So is it DNA or is it putting in the time? For a game like Donkey Kong I would say it's more about putting in the time. But if it was a game competitively played by tens of thousands, than I would say both.
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Well, DNA does have something to do with it, but so many other variables come into play, in much more directly influential ways, that the differences between peoples' DNA is negligible. I mean, interaction with other people with different DNA than your own is a HUGE factor at getting people even into gaming in the first place. Things like someone showing you the KoK, or other people actively helping you with a game are just some examples of things that are not dependent upon your own DNA, and seem to clearly have a great influence. I'm saying that we should dish out praise simply for what someone did or does, and not try to parse out something as complex as who they are and praise them for that. It seems like there are way too many influential causes at play to easily do the latter correctly. Again, just MHO.
P.s. Hank, I know you were probably just being witty, but I thought I should still clarify my position on that. ;)
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Wakeup George .
For the fact that theres somethings out there with my name out on it... I have'nt gotten a copy of it .. Or was asked if they could use it.
Even though someone else says my Name in a Stream or a Sound Bite. You would think they'd ask the person before hand.
What on earth are you talking about? :o
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Wakeup George .For the fact that theres somethings out there with my name out on it... I have'nt gotten a copy of it .. Or was asked if they could use it.
Even though someone else says my Name in a Stream or a Sound Bite. You would think they'd ask the person before hand.
I don't want to. I have spent 37 years invested in this dream, and I don't want to wake up! ;) Ironically your "Wakeup George" actually did wake me up to what you are saying.
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whats that?
Wakeup George .For the fact that theres somethings out there with my name out on it... I have'nt gotten a copy of it .. Or was asked if they could use it.
Even though someone else says my Name in a Stream or a Sound Bite. You would think they'd ask the person before hand.
I don't want to. I have spent 37 years invested in this dream, and I don't want to wake up! ;) Ironically your "Wakeup George" actually did wake me up to what you are saying.
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Brian, you need to start your own blog in this forum, cuz this is totally off topic. No one will get bothered if you voice your more controversial opinions/rants/grievances there. Just saying.
George, I don't know if you have one either. Might be a something to think about as well. If only just to keep these threads more on topic.
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Brian, you need to start your own blog in this forum, cuz this is totally off topic. No one will get bothered if you voice your more controversial opinions/rants/grievances there. Just saying.
George, I don't know if you have one either. Might be a something to think about as well. If only just to keep these threads more on topic.
Except I was on topic. It's Junior Progress. I was talking about how quickly one progresses in the game. My whole point is that I don't think the average person progresses in Junior as quickly as people think.
OK, though the blog thing does seem like an interesting idea. I am going to start one called "Too hot for regular threads" blog.
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I was referring to the tangent you and Brian got on about how he doesn't like the sound-bite board that was made of Allen Staal that has his (Brian Allen's) name in it. Brian wasn't clear at all about what he was talking about, and so when you were confused and asked what he was talking about, he just flared up at you without any justification, since I don't think you knew about this. I was just implying that this sort of thing often happens between you two, so maybe it would be better to have a designated place for it (if that is even possible). Brian should definitely start his own blog-thread for this stuff, and I was just suggesting that maybe you would like to as well. At the very least, it could make what is irking either you or Brian very clear (when, and if, something is ever irking you guys), so that there is no need for people to assume the worst and then flare up about something that doesn't need to be flared up about -especially in an unrelated thread.
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OK, streaming a board-running game on MAME tonight. Probably within the next hour.
http://twitch.tv/chrisp_kreme (http://twitch.tv/chrisp_kreme)
I've only been playing on my machine for the past week and I'm now up to 250K (with six lives), so let's see how I do with 3 lives on the regular version...
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Best game only got to 7-1.
Hm.
I'm either severely "out of the zone" tonight or that game a couple weeks ago was a freak occurrence. I think there is an element of both...
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OK, so maybe it WASN'T a freak occurrence, if tonight was any indication.
I am so bizarrely inconsistent.
Last night I literally could not play a lick, tonight I got on the machine and rocked balls (well, for me at least), getting to L12 without incident. Part of the problem last night was being out of practice on the "regular" version and its differences, part of it was lag and frame-skipping due to streaming, part of it was being physically uncomfortable with my cobbled together setup, but come on, 150K??
I think, on Junior, I'm just better with a Nintendo control panel than on a keyboard. The superjump in particular drives me up the wall on MAME. I don't know if it's my keyboard, the way I tap the key, or MAME skipping frames or something, but I miss the jump constantly on MAME and rarely on the cab.
And the psychological effects of streaming are, apparently, huge. I don't know what it is, but I have literally never played as well when streaming as I do when I'm not. I guess it just makes it that much harder to get "in sync" with the game when I'm chatting, dicking around with the Allen soundboard, etc.
Having said that, I'm gonna stream some 400K attempts this weekend. I need to learn how to play well while streaming! I shouldn't only be able to play when I'm absolutely zen stone-zeroed in on the game.
If you can't play when the pressure's on, you're really not good enough!
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Yes this Frame Skipping thing is a Major problem for me Streaming or not.
It happens when jumping sparks on Marios Hideout or the snappers on Jungle level.
Some times the Super Jump works and then it does'nt for no reason. Messes up the game!
That can happen on the arcade allso. But with Mame it happens more often!
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My experience is that using the keyboard cuts the chance of me making the superjump literally in half, but if I use a control panel with an arcade-style button I don't see any dropoff in success rate. It's weird. I know I can't punch a keyboard button near as fast so I have always blamed it on that.
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Blarg, I just did a stream with one 100K "warmup", then had a 275K game.
I'm ready to hit 500 now.
My mic is off on the stream though (can't use it on this other computer) so there's no real point in streaming and in fiddling with the streamy bits.
I'll hit it again right now. You're goin' down, Junior...
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All the way to 9-1 with all my lives, then a stupid impatience-death on 9-1, after which I regained my composure, then I died one screen after another on 10-4, 11-1, and 11-2. My brain exploded. 336,500.
If I can manage to NOT have a mletdown, there's no reason I shouldn't get to at least L15 on my next game. Honestly, there is so little randomness to speak of in this game I wouldn't be surprised to bump into the kill screen. The score will be awful, but whatever.
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Had a decent one started, then blew it because I'm a shithead.
Now up to 13-4!
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Oh dear.
If the "accelerating skill" phase is my favorite, the phase I'm in now is my least favorite - that spot where the learning is over and you have all of the skills and knowledge to do it, and you have the urge to get it done, but simple, dumb, lapses and errors are stopping you.
This game is particularly nasty in that regard, in that once you've got it down, it's almost always your fault when you die. You can't blame randomness nearly as often as you can in DK. It's just you and your little moments of impatience and/or not paying enough attention, which seem to happen more often the more you want it. Then you get ragey, which makes you want it even MORE, etc.
I understand why Ben and (especially) Mike were cursing at themselves all month. Junior really lends itself to that. It messes with you. It knows exactly how to make you mad at yourself.
Actually, rather than drive myself crazy, I think I'll just walk away! I'll give it a few days, try again, and let it happen when it happens.
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You'll get there in no time. I can't tell you how many times I had completely bone-headed deaths after I felt that I knew enough to killscreen. Walking off platforms, holding left/right a split second longer than I should have, etc. Jr does require a lot more patience than DK.
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Like Hank said, patience I think is key to this damned game.
Recently I got so stressed with the game I put my DK pcb into the cab just so I could take a break as I was just getting so angry at myself and my stupid unnecessary mistakes.
I still have not got to a kill screen but my point pressing has improved greatly and normally around 460-470k going into level 10.
I will swap pcb's back out this coming weekend and hope for some joy.
You've been doing great and I've enjoyed reading progress.
Keep us posted!
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You have to make moves of Skills in this game to Drive the score up. Those can be super risky on Chain boards to gain more points!
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Yeah, I'm seeing more and more how you get the big points in this game. Those fruit drops are often really hard and risky to set up and wait for.
And now that I'm doing it as a player, and not as a spectator, I'm actually starting to appreciate leeching the hideout. It's kind of nice to be able to just zone out for a few minutes of downtime, especially to calm nerves when you're approaching a new personal best or the end of the game, etc. DK definitely doesn't have anything like that.
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Yes intell Mame messes up your gameplay by skipping frames and you die doing these little jumps!
Yeah, I'm seeing more and more how you get the big points in this game. Those fruit drops are often really hard and risky to set up and wait for.
And now that I'm doing it as a player, and not as a spectator, I'm actually starting to appreciate leeching the hideout. It's kind of nice to be able to just zone out for a few minutes of downtime, especially to calm nerves when you're approaching a new personal best or the end of the game, etc. DK definitely doesn't have anything like that.
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Well I think tonight seals the deal. I officially can't stream MAME anymore. At least, not with my current setup.
Aside from the fact that the processor load of streaming makes the game stability undependable, having to window MAME is something I just can't get used to.
If I stream MAME again I'm gonna do what Robbie and some others do, playing on one computer and streaming from another computer via webcam.
As for Junior, I've played maybe a dozen more games since my L13 game, and I keep getting stuck in the L9-L13 area. So, reluctant as I am to admit that there's a leak somewhere, there is most definitely a leak somewhere. There's something or several somethings that I don't have nailed on the chains.
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This might be interesting to someone besides me so what the heck.
I've talked about the P-kit and how it's harder in various ways than the regular version, and I was curious exactly how it worked on the chain board specifically so I did some work with it.
Image 1: Shows the bird patterns and safe zones (L2 and up) on the regular version. You're all familiar with those, obviously...
Image 2: Shows the bird patterns and safe zone on the P-kit (note that there is no safe zone at the top, only the bottom). The birds are all moved down a bit on the top and middle passes, and moved *up* a bit on the bottom pass, resulting in a bottom safe zone that's much smaller than in the regular version.
Image 3: The P-kit introduces an additional wrinkle, though. There are actually 5 possible slots for the birds to fly through. However, one of the slots (the topmost) will only be used if Junior is occupying those pixels when the bird is coming out. So if you're up there when the bird is choosing where to go, it becomes a "heat seeker" and will come at you on top. Easy to avoid on top obviously, but the problem is that it will go higher on the middle and bottom pass too.
So you have to be aware when that odd bird comes into play, and keep track of it, because when it does, it throws everything off. You can't use the safe zone at the bottom. Very dangerous!
And that is why I have the dipswitches on my machine set to 6-man...
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Wow, epic run on the P-kit just now.
I was burning out on L7 constantly, my best L9, but I just made it to L12.
I made a couple adjustment on my approach to the chains and it's paying off like gangbusters.
I might have to put this sucker on 3 lives!
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how many lives you got the game on?
Wow, epic run on the P-kit just now.
I was burning out on L7 constantly, my best L9, but I just made it to L12.
I made a couple adjustment on my approach to the chains and it's paying off like gangbusters.
I might have to put this sucker on 3 lives!
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And that is why I have the dipswitches on my machine set to 6-man...
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Thanks Hank
I could'nt remember. so many pages ago!And that is why I have the dipswitches on my machine set to 6-man...
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OK, good, my adjustment appears to not be a fluke. I just got to L14 on the machine.
For the record, this was the critical adjustment: I'm really, really pushing it on the leftmost key. Rather than going for the center keys, which seems to be the standard pattern, I'm taking advantage of those first few seconds of "low traffic" by jumping straight up and making a mad dash to get that left key up as high as possible until it's either in place or the snappers have forced me to retreat (whichever comes first). The goal is to push it at least into the "top flight path" region, which allows me to quickly swing over and pop it in there when the opportunity presents itself, preferably after placing the two left-center-keys.
I haven't played the regular version on MAME in a while. I don't know what it is, but it just seems like the physics of a joystick lends itself better to Junior, since so much of the game is about moving into and out of precise little "notches." The keyboard is too fluid and sensitive. Junior is in the wrist, not in the fingers! For me anyway.
The truth is, I think going back and forth between the two versions, while it accelerated my learning in the beginning, is now hampering my technique, because the approach you have to take on the chains is so different. You can move laterally along the safe spot on the regular version, which I virtually never do and have never gotten good at because I'm not used to doing it that way. I'm constantly zipping up and down the chains needlessly because I'm trained to have to do it like that. In other words, I probably would have killscreened the regular version by now if I weren't slowing myself down trying to master two different ways of playing. Or maybe I wouldn't have, who knows. We can't all be Ben!
I'm not in a hurry though so it makes no difference to me when it happens. In fact, killscreening one of these games is always a little bittersweet, for the same reason that reaching any goal is.
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For the record, this was the critical adjustment: I'm really, really pushing it on the leftmost key. Rather than going for the center keys, which seems to be the standard pattern, I'm taking advantage of those first few seconds of "low traffic" by jumping straight up and making a mad dash to get that left key up as high as possible until it's either in place or the snappers have forced me to retreat (whichever comes first). The goal is to push it at least into the "top flight path" region, which allows me to quickly swing over and pop it in there when the opportunity presents itself, preferably after placing the two left-center-keys.
This is how I approach the screen, and I'm pretty sure Mike does this as well. It's just how I have always done it, even going back to first learning the game bitd. Given that the snapjaws seem to like to hang out over in that area it makes sense, especially after smashes since the respawn point is right above the far left key. I start with the intention of pushing up that left key by going around the apple and "reading" what the snapjaws do. A perfect scenario would be of course a couple of them going down the apple chain, and you are able to go ahead and finish that key with no delay since the nitpickers aren't in the area yet complicating things. Things don't always work out that way obviously so plans always change on the fly.
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For the record, this was the critical adjustment: I'm really, really pushing it on the leftmost key. Rather than going for the center keys, which seems to be the standard pattern, I'm taking advantage of those first few seconds of "low traffic" by jumping straight up and making a mad dash to get that left key up as high as possible until it's either in place or the snappers have forced me to retreat (whichever comes first). The goal is to push it at least into the "top flight path" region, which allows me to quickly swing over and pop it in there when the opportunity presents itself, preferably after placing the two left-center-keys.
This is how I approach the screen, and I'm pretty sure Mike does this as well. It's just how I have always done it, even going back to first learning the game bitd. Given that the snapjaws seem to like to hang out over in that area it makes sense, especially after smashes since the respawn point is right above the far left key. I start with the intention of pushing up that left key by going around the apple and "reading" what the snapjaws do. A perfect scenario would be of course a couple of them going down the apple chain, and you are able to go ahead and finish that key with no delay since the nitpickers aren't in the area yet complicating things. Things don't always work out that way obviously so plans always change on the fly.
I play the keys the same way. I assumed that was pretty universal....
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Sweet, last night I got 666,600 level C-4 (19-4) on the hard ROM (6 man).
I think it's definitely time to put it on 3 man.
Or maybe not. I'm trying to decide whether I should just go for a phony baloney kill screen or keep it in my pants until I can do it properly.
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BLARGH.
Three games in a row (MAME, 3-man) ending on L15 or 16, with at least three ridiculous deaths each game.
This so should have happened tonight, but now it's too late to start again.
I've got kill screen blue balls!
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Stressful game!
I hate nothing more than those damned nitpickers.
Had a month away from the cab not reached the KS yet but it's something I have to do.
keep at it, you've come a long way!!
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Hey, great job on getting 550k on DKJr. Not many people can say they have gotten at least 550k on Donkey Kong, and Donkey Kong Junior. That is still one of the things I can't say.
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Thanks. I was actually watching your MARP game just now...
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Thanks. I was actually watching your MARP game just now...
Which one? The Donkey Kong one, or the Donkey Kong Junior one? :)
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Junior.
I see that you do NOT go for the left key first...
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Junior.
I see that you do NOT go for the left key first...
Yeah, it's probably why I'm in third place instead of 1st place. I was going more for time than smashes. My method is easier, but it comes with a price. After watching Mike Kasper do his thing I realized how much more advantages it is to go for the left key first. Not because it's quicker, but because it gives you more time for the red snappers to go down the fruit chains to be smashed.
Edit: I'm pie level now. Yippee!
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LEVEL FKING 16.
THIS COMPUTER IS GOING OUT THE WINDOW THE NEXT TIME A GAME ENDS ON L16.
I'm begging you, hands and brain, please, just keep it together for 2 hours. Just two!
Meh, I'll let it go for a few days. Always seems to help...
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LEVEL FKING 16.
THIS COMPUTER IS GOING OUT THE WINDOW THE NEXT TIME A GAME ENDS ON L16.
I'm begging you, hands and brain, please, just keep it together for 2 hours. Just two!
Meh, I'll let it go for a few days. Always seems to help...
Level 16 is the level right before level A if I am not mistaken. I call the empty box levels on this game "The Black Hole". It's the place where it seems a ton of a gamers men enter, but never come back.
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If anybody needs me, I'll be in the corner weeping and cutting myself.
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The tear in your signature says it all. So sorry for your loss. Maybe just stop playing that terrible game altogether?...
Edit: I hear that Kangaroo is pretty good!!! ;)
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Wow...that is brutal. Looks like some good progress though!
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Oh what the heck, this dire tragedy is good enough for MARP (http://replay.marpirc.net/r/dkongjr).
Haha.
Whatever, I'll save the kill screen for a big game when I actually leech the hideouts. This run would have been 900K+ if I had.
I think I'll leave DK Jr. there for a while. Close enough...
Yay, I am now free to return to being brutalized by papa Kong!
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Oh man!!!
How close?!!!!
Well done though all the same, that's a damned good effort!
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Yep Level 17 Is the start of the Letters at A
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Hey Mitch, have you given up on Junior?
I actually still like the game (more or less), despite how aggravating it is.
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I swear DK Jr and DK share some code about killing you off on the last regular board. In my one KS game, I thought I was going to killscreen with a spare until 21-4 killed one off.
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I don't know if the image makes it clear what happened there, but I attemped the "slide down squeeze-between" those two birds. It's possible to do it of course, but the timing has to be perfect and it was incredibly stupid to attempt it. And as you can see, my timing was WAY off.
All I had to do was wait for those two to go by and THEN push the key up, but the anxiety of the moment got me!
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As you know getting the timing going down a vine is unnecessarily difficult due to that ?intentional lag after which you free fall rapidly.
I'm no expert but I generally save the 1st set of keys for the very end unless I can get it at the very start of the board. That situation looks avoidable but as you say you got caught up in the moment.
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It was extremely avoidable, which is why I deserve to wear the tear in my sig like the Scarlet Letter.
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Another factor is that, when I was finishing the sparks board, I yelled to my girlfriend in the other room "there's a Donkey Kong Junior kill screen coming up... if anybody wants to watch..."
She came in to see and I immediately got more nervous.
So there might be a case for blaming her, at least in part.
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I swear DK Jr and DK share some code about killing you off on the last regular board.
Yeah, no kidding. I can think of 3 times where I died on the final playable screen. And it's funny, 2 of those times I wasn't nervous at all but I may have been too cautious. Doing that when you are used to being kind of aggressive really throws off the flow of things.
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You can hear Hank go "oh....." lol.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=577131555648736&set=vb.506885672688760&type=2&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=577131555648736&set=vb.506885672688760&type=2&theater)
I'm not sure how else to link it, John can maybe put it on youtube since he is the owner of said video but basically 1m point game, die on very last chain on New Years Eve at the closing event of Richie's old place.
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While we are sharing the pain... one of my many 21-6 deaths:
Source: Kong Off 1, Saturday first game
[noembed]The Kong Off 2011 - Hank Chien Interview w/ Bonus Footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FEimNkyTKE&t=0m53s)[/noembed]
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Wow, Steve's is actually a lot more brutal than mine. Bigger game and people watching.
Also, I'd forgotten about the "F" badge...
I don't care how dumb it is, it's seriously incentivizing me to give this another shot.