Donkey Kong Forum
Other Classic Arcade Games => Classic Arcade Game Discussion => Topic started by: Weehawk on June 29, 2017, 10:06:37 am
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Some of you may be aware that I used to do a Golden Era Game of the Week thing in which I offered monetary prizes for performances on arcade titles using MAME, requiring the inp files to be submitted to MARP.
I have been thinking about a modern version and need advice from users experienced with Twitch TV.
I have long thought that if I ever offered money for MAME accomplishments again that I would need to require external video of the player playing the game, much like TG requires for real arcade machine submissions, in addition to the inp file. It very recently occurred to me that Twitch could be useful for that and more.
I'm imagining that contestants would have to stream performances live in order for the performance to be eligible to win. They would then have to make the Twitch video as well as the inp file available for scrutiny. I sometimes see streamers broadcasting a big screen of the game they are playing with a small inset of themselves while playing. That (or the reverse) would be great.
Does anybody foresee problems or have any ideas that would help?
It would be cool to make available a list of those streaming at any given time, like in the upper right corner of the DKF front page, or does Twitch allow the formation of groups that would facilitate myself and other players to watch those currently streaming?
Brainstorms welcome. Even light drizzles could help.
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Whatever happens, I'm very interested in participating. :)
Regarding your last question, take a look at Twitch Communities. That might be the solution you're looking for.
https://blog.twitch.tv/communities-93de2c1a2e4d (https://blog.twitch.tv/communities-93de2c1a2e4d)
https://help.twitch.tv/customer/portal/articles/2737498-communities-policies-and-guide (https://help.twitch.tv/customer/portal/articles/2737498-communities-policies-and-guide)
IMO, setting up a webcam to show the player during a stream isn't difficult. Many players already do it or have done it, so it's not an unreasonable requirement. Of course, someone will always complain about something. :D
If for some reason you're ever concerned about a Twitch video disappearing, check out the Twitch Leecher (https://github.com/Franiac/TwitchLeecher/releases) tool for easy VOD downloading.
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I feel a twitch requirement would be a bit harsh and restrict the number of people able to participate. Having the same setup and allow an upload to YouTube (or similar) is a simple compromise.
Definitely keen to get on board with this. I have been thinking lately about doing something with bounties similar to what RTM did on TG in the past (arcade/mame only) so this could serve that purpose (plus it's your money not mine ;D) Kappa
You could use multi twitch for those who stream regularly but setting up a team or community would be a better option
Kreygasm
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If for some reason you're ever concerned about a Twitch video disappearing, check out the Twitch Leecher (https://github.com/Franiac/TwitchLeecher/releases) tool for easy VOD downloading.
Oh yeah, it goes without saying I'll be downloading the videos, by hook or by crook.
I feel a twitch requirement would be a bit harsh and restrict the number of people able to participate.
How so? It just takes a minute to make a Twitch account. I haven't broadcasted myself, but you can buy a webcam for 10 bucks. Setting up the stream through Twitch can't be that hard. I'm thinking watching the live attempts will be a lot of fun, and me having fun is the main thing here.
Another general question: Will there be any problem with verifying after the fact that the performance was, in fact, streamed live? The videos I see on Twitch say when they were recorded, but is there a way for someone to defeat that? That is, could they play the game privately and then try to make it look afterwards like they had streamed it?
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How so? It just takes a minute to make a Twitch account. I haven't broadcasted myself, but you can buy a webcam for 10 bucks. Setting up the stream through Twitch can't be that hard. I'm thinking watching the live attempts will be a lot of fun, and me having fun is the main thing here.
Oh it's definitely easy to do don't get me wrong, however some people's personal situation just doesn't allow them to stream every week (myself as an example at the moment). I'd be on everyday if it was possible, but currently it's not.
Don't take this as me whinging, I do love the idea. I may be the only one that feels restricted by this so I'll be happy with whatever you decide :) watching others is just as fun as playing (sometimes moreso!)
:)
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Another general question: Will there be any problem with verifying after the fact that the performance was, in fact, streamed live? The videos I see on Twitch say when they were recorded, but is there a way for someone to defeat that? That is, could they play the game privately and then try to make it look afterwards like they had streamed it?
ChrisP (I think) had the good idea of screen capturing your system clock and displaying it on stream during the DKOs. Maybe a rule worth considering? Could easily match up the date recorded with what is on screen (also the inp date)
If there's no chat interaction and the streamer only streams their one PB game it'd be a bit suspect.
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ChrisP (I think) had the good idea of screen capturing your system clock and displaying it on stream during the DKOs.
Hmmm...I hadn't even thought about someone broadcasting a recording yet.
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well, one particular Donkey Kong player got busted for playing back a recording on stream once. When playing back a recording, you could attempt to "match" the recording and do all the joystick and button inputs nice and loud but sooner or later you're going to slip up, would just depend on someone watching the recording like a hawk and noticing buttons not being hit in certain spots if the buttons are loud, or whatever.
Personally I don't like doing webcam streams (although I do use a mic) so this would be a problem for me. So I'm sure there could always be someone to doubt I'm doing everything live. If you're there to catch a live stream, you could always give a specific instruction like "put 5 extra credits in the machine right now to prove this is live" and the player could oblige, but there's no guarantee that game would be "the run", and they would have to do it again on another attempt. There could be specific daily instructions like being required to enter in certain initials at the end of the game, but one could still manage to find time to put together a run offline before they start streaming. I guess there's the system clock thing like Barra said for double-checking the start and end dates of the inps?
These are all hypotheticals, I guess there's always going to be doubts unless there's webcam of the screen and hands to go along with everything, but I would hope most of us are on the level at this point.
And of course it goes without saying that you'd need to keep requiring people to be making their .inps on whatever the newest version of WolfMAME is at the time.
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well, one particular Donkey Kong player got busted for playing back a recording on stream once.
The YouTube console was the dead giveaway for me.
Edit: I might be getting my cheaters mixed up again. I forget which one is which sometimes.
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I like the idea of showing system clock, Chris p mentioned before about showing taskbar aswell to make sure no other video/ playback programs are running..
Implimenting the initials somehow is also a good idea. You could even enter initials based on the approximate time and day of a score submission by using a code/chart like this one.
http://imgur.com/a/M1t4M (http://imgur.com/a/M1t4M)
Although expecting people to go that far would be enough to turn people off, especially since these games have a time limit on the initial screen.
Maybe just having an initial entry like BBH mentioned would be far less taxing <Pigger>
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I'm with BBH - I stream a few times a week. I have no interest in having to subject everyone to my face every time. You will lose participation if that's a requirement, even though I would just STFU and do it. It's got nothing to do w/ cost, it's just not my thing. Initials and timestamps aren't a bad idea, though someone could still pull off some splicing/editing, I'm sure. As with everything, you'll never completely eliminate cheating, because people are just a-holes.
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I have no interest in having to subject everyone to my face every time.
I don't want to see your faces. Wait a second...that doesn't sound right. I'm sure you're a handsome devil, and I've seen pictures of BBH, and his appearance isn't going to scare anybody, but seeing the player's face serves no practical purpose. And, being phobically camera-shy myself, believe me, I understand that having to broadcast yourself is something that some will be averse to.
What I want to see, solely for the purpose of making cheating more difficult, is the player's hands at whatever controls are used, in concert with the screen. If this ultimately turns out to be infeasible, then I just won't be offering monetary incentives for MAME performances. Cheating with MAME is just too easy, for reasons I won't elaborate on, as I don't want to give anybody ideas on how to do it. As former MAME project leader David "Haze" Haywood often chided us, there is no way to make MAME secure, and trying to do so is a fool's errand.
I'll play with the concept a little and see how things work out. And, of course, nobody has to play if they don't want to. I do appreciate everybody's input, though.
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I also forgot to say - thanks for taking the time and effort to put something like this together.
You are correct - like any program, MAME is breakable and cheatable. Hands are a fine idea. I have to warn people. I have 6 fingers on my left-hand.
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I have 6 fingers on my left-hand.
Yeah...I'll have to disqualify you if we do Track & Field, then. Maybe Stargate, too. Just wouldn't be fair.
Kappa