Donkey Kong Forum
General Donkey Kong Discussion => General Donkey Kong Discussion => Topic started by: YesAffinity on January 19, 2017, 12:15:42 pm
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Hey guys,
Thought you all my be interested in this. One of the regulars at KLOV forums has produced a JAMMA pass-through adapter that provides a separate RGB output.
https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=392389
A Mike's Arcade Nintendo-to-JAMMA adapter on the unused edge connector -> JAMMA pass-through -> taking the video output to a Gonbes 8200 or JROK encoder can get you direct feed output from the edge connector pretty easily. It also has a break-out header for +5v, which would provide power to either of those solutions. You could easily solder audio output to the audio lines at the unused side of the pass-through adapter, to get audio for your direct feed as well.
A bit simpler than my current direct feed solution. Considering getting one of these pass-through adapters for one of my JAMMA cabs.
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Cool! Have you tried this thing out yet?
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Hey Chris. Sounds cool and I might be interested in one for my DK cab but would need a plug and play solution with sound included if that will ever happen, since I am not a hardware guy.
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I did get one, and extremely coincidentally, I just got it out last night to try to give it a go again. When I initially got it, about a year ago, it was not a fully baked product. With the adapter inline, colors on the arcade monitor and colors on the output were off, there was ringing, and the image was fuzzy. I'm going from memory on that, because when I tested it again last night, the split out RGB signal appears to no longer be working. The board functions as a pass-thru and nothing else.
At the time that I got the board and experienced the initial problems, I e-mailed the guy who made the adapters, and he acknowledged that some people were experiencing issues. He said he was working on a v2, and would be sending a replacement to anyone that had problems with v1. I think he posted this on KLOV also. Well, over the course of about 6 months and a few more exchanges of "hey, when is v2 going to be ready?", the promise devolved to "I have other projects and don't have any more money to keep working on this right now. I will let you know when v2 is ready but don't have a timeline." FailFish <mad>
So, DO NOT BUY THAT PRODUCT, even if you see them for sale, which I don't think they are any more.
Now, all that said, Wes Copeland has a working direct feed setup that was a much simpler solution than mine and what I outline above. I believe Wes is using a Mike's Arcade edge connector adapter for Nintendo boards and tapping straight off of that. Assuming you guys are looking to get a direct feed off a Nintendo board, that's probably the easier way to go and frankly, the additional jamma pass-thru adapter is unnecessary. You would simply keep your game board wired in the cab as normal, install the edge connector adapter board, and tap video and audio off of the appropriate headers on the edge connector adapter. Maybe Wes can chime in with some details on how he solved the problem.
mrvaya - if you're looking to have something built to plug n play into your cab, shoot me a PM.
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Publishing my setup -- it's not cheap but you will get RGBS video transmitted through HDMI with no soldering whatsoever required. You can artificially introduce scanlines and correct for the wonky sync coming out of a DK PCB. You can also linedouble for a capture card that doesn't support 240p through HDMI.
You will need:
1x MikesArcade Nintendo to JAMMA (https://www.mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/store.pl?sku=NIN2JAMMA)
1x JAMMA to SCART RGBS Adapter (https://www.ebay.com/itm/PCB-Advance-JAMMA-To-Scart-RGB-arcade-adapter-Retroelectronik-SCART-cable-/152408642439)
1x OSSC (https://www.videogameperfection.com/products/open-source-converter/)
1x SCART Cable (https://www.amazon.com/KabelDirekt-multiple-shieldings-precision-connector/dp/B01DYELZXE)
1x HDMI Cable (https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-High-Speed-HDMI-Cable-1-Pack/dp/B014I8SSD0/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_23_bs_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=2R0ES2ZX701M6DX414FJ)
1x Capture Card with HDMI In (https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-HDMI-Video-Capture-Device/dp/B00PC5HUA6)
The MikesArcade Nintendo to JAMMA will invert the video image and correct the negative color. Connect it to the edge connector of the DK PCB.
Connect the JAMMA to SCART RGBS to the other end of the NIN2JAMMA.
Hook up your SCART cable to the JAMMA to SCART.
Connect the other end of the SCART cable to the OSSC.
The OSSC has HDMI out - send the HDMI to your capture card.
You will probably need to enter the sync settings menu of the OSSC and adjust the back porch sync. Muck with the settings until the picture stops going crazy. If you have no signal, set the OSSC to Line2x, Line3x, or Line4x. Which one works depends on what resolutions your capture card will accept. More expensive capture cards will take more resolutions. I personally use a PEXHDCAP (USB3HDCAP will also work). These cards can be purchased on Amazon and will accept any resolution through HDMI.
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If you're interested in a cheaper alternative and much shittier video is okay, this is an alternative setup you can use. Again, no soldering required.
You will need:
1x MikesArcade Nintendo to JAMMA (https://www.mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/store.pl?sku=NIN2JAMMA)
1x JAMMA to SCART RGBS Adapter (https://www.ebay.com/itm/PCB-Advance-JAMMA-To-Scart-RGB-arcade-adapter-Retroelectronik-SCART-cable-/152408642439)
1x Gonbes Scaler (https://www.amazon.com/Andoer-Portable-GBS-8220-Definition-Converter/dp/B00XKWX0SY/ref=pd_sbs_147_5?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00XKWX0SY&pd_rd_r=BW8W1NQYB9GMGC7VSQJ6&pd_rd_w=Wfsjj&pd_rd_wg=j8t9f&psc=1&refRID=BW8W1NQYB9GMGC7VSQJ6)
1x Sync Strike (http://arcadeforge.net/Scaler-and-Strike-Devices/Sync-Strike::15.html?language=en)
2x VGA Cable (https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Ferrites-SVGA-Available/dp/B0087OV77G/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1525275670&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=vga+cable&psc=1
1x SCART Cable (https://www.amazon.com/KabelDirekt-multiple-shieldings-precision-connector/dp/B01DYELZXE)
1x Capture Card with VGA or DVI In (You'll have to source this yourself, there are many options. I recommend the PEXHDCAP or USB3HDCAP, but these are not cheap.)
Like in the superior setup in my previous post, the MikesArcade NIN2JAMMA connects to the DK PCB's edge connector.
Connect the JAMMA to SCART RGBS to the other end of the NIN2JAMMA.
Hook up the SCART cable to the JAMMA to SCART.
Connect the other end of the SCART cable to the sync strike.
The sync strike has VGA out: connect the sync strike to the Gonbes Scaler.
Connect the Gonbes scaler's VGA out to your capture card.
Again, you'll probably need to muck around with the Gonbes scaler's settings. These boards can be finnicky with sync from a DK PCB. If you experience this, try a different power supply. If the sync is still bad, recap the Gonbes board with better capacitors.
This is an alternative setup with more moving parts. I highly recommend taking the OSSC route as described in my previous post - the extra money will save you from a lot of stress, but I have gotten a working direct feed using this setup as well.
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Great info, thanks Wes! Would you mind posting any settings within OSSC that you changed from the default?
I did some quick testing with my OSSC when I first got it, and while it showed no the LCD display that it was getting a signal, nothing that I connected the OSSC to would display video. I'm able to take the signal through a Iscan DVDO VP30 and then to the OSSC, and all monitors/capture cards work fine with the OSSC output at that point, but there's not much benefit doing that, compared to just omitting the OSSC and going VP30 -> capture card, which is what I've always done.
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Great info, thanks Wes! Would you mind posting any settings within OSSC that you changed from the default?
I did some quick testing with my OSSC when I first got it, and while it showed no the LCD display that it was getting a signal, nothing that I connected the OSSC to would display video. I'm able to take the signal through a Iscan DVDO VP30 and then to the OSSC, and all monitors/capture cards work fine with the OSSC output at that point, but there's not much benefit doing that, compared to just omitting the OSSC and going VP30 -> capture card, which is what I've always done.
My DK machine is out of commission right now, as I'm in the process of completely rewiring it. I'm waiting for a couple of parts on backorder before this can be completed, but as soon as it's done and my machine is up and running I can create an OSSC optimal settings profile.
I'm not 100% sure but it sounds like the "issue" could be in your capture card. The OSSC by design doesn't output a standards-compliant HDMI signal, and if your capture card is not tolerant to this it would explain you not getting a picture. Are you using the Amarec software to interface with your card? Have you tried setting the OSSC into Line2x or Line4x mode? Have you updated your OSSC to the latest firmware?
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Admittedly, I was testing on day 2 or 3 of having the OSSC, at which point I was very much still a noob (now 3 weeks later, I am a super seasoned veteran with the thing :D). It was a quick test, SCART out from a Retroelektronic supergun which is working great with every other game board I have -> OSSC AV1 input. HDMI out of the OSSC to 2 different monitors, through VP30, and direct to capture card (Avermedia C127). None of them liked the signal coming out of the OSSC.
The DK board was out of the cab at the time, but is now back in my standard setup with JROK v4.1 outputting YPbPr. It may just work with no further trouble with the current configuration, if I take YPbPr into OSSC AV2, but I haven't yet coupled an extension component cable to test that out. No worries if your settings aren't easily accessible/verifiable at the moment. I'll probably get around to testing the DK board->JROK->OSSC this weekend.
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Publishing my setup -- it's not cheap but you will get RGBS video transmitted through HDMI with no soldering whatsoever required. You can artificially introduce scanlines and correct for the wonky sync coming out of a DK PCB. You can also linedouble for a capture card that doesn't support 240p through HDMI.
You will need:
1x MikesArcade Nintendo to JAMMA (https://www.mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/store.pl?sku=NIN2JAMMA)
1x JAMMA to SCART RGBS Adapter (https://www.ebay.com/itm/PCB-Advance-JAMMA-To-Scart-RGB-arcade-adapter-Retroelectronik-SCART-cable-/152408642439)
1x OSSC (https://www.videogameperfection.com/products/open-source-converter/)
1x SCART Cable (https://www.amazon.com/KabelDirekt-multiple-shieldings-precision-connector/dp/B01DYELZXE)
1x HDMI Cable (https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-High-Speed-HDMI-Cable-1-Pack/dp/B014I8SSD0/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_23_bs_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=2R0ES2ZX701M6DX414FJ)
1x Capture Card with HDMI In (https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-HDMI-Video-Capture-Device/dp/B00PC5HUA6)
The MikesArcade Nintendo to JAMMA will invert the video image and correct the negative color. Connect it to the edge connector of the DK PCB.
Connect the JAMMA to SCART RGBS to the other end of the NIN2JAMMA.
Hook up your SCART cable to the JAMMA to SCART.
Connect the other end of the SCART cable to the OSSC.
The OSSC has HDMI out - send the HDMI to your capture card.
You will probably need to enter the sync settings menu of the OSSC and adjust the back porch sync. Muck with the settings until the picture stops going crazy. If you have no signal, set the OSSC to Line2x, Line3x, or Line4x. Which one works depends on what resolutions your capture card will accept. More expensive capture cards will take more resolutions. I personally use a PEXHDCAP (USB3HDCAP will also work). These cards can be purchased on Amazon and will accept any resolution through HDMI.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing this and saving me some time!!
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I just remembered a third setup that will also work :)
The following setup differs because you're capturing analog instead of digital. This might be the highest quality capture method you can achieve from a DK PCB and requires no scaling or analog-to-digital conversion of any kind. The catch is it relies on procuring a capture card that is historically increasing in price.
You will need:
1x MikesArcade Nintendo to JAMMA (https://www.mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/store.pl?sku=NIN2JAMMA)
1x JAMMA to SCART RGBS Adapter (https://www.ebay.com/itm/PCB-Advance-JAMMA-To-Scart-RGB-arcade-adapter-Retroelectronik-SCART-cable-/152408642439)
1x Sync Strike (http://arcadeforge.net/Scaler-and-Strike-Devices/Sync-Strike::15.html?language=en)
1x VGA Cable (https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Ferrites-SVGA-Available/dp/B0087OV77G/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1525275670&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=vga+cable&psc=1)
1x SCART Cable (https://www.amazon.com/KabelDirekt-multiple-shieldings-precision-connector/dp/B01DYELZXE)
1x VGA to DVI Converter (Found on Amazon or may be included w/ capture card)
1x Datapath VisionRGB E1 or Datapath VisionRGB E1S (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Datapath-Vision-RGB-E1-1080p-Video-Capture-Card-PCI-Express-Full-Profile/112633078329?hash=item1a39746239:g:hDcAAOSwdRpaxTsc but shop around on ebay)
Please note that the Datapath card is a professional capture card, and it will not hold your hand. Thankfully, someone has put together a setup guide for it that can be found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TdSpFTMIJz2pYIf05KcqXJsPTJEi6ee8YVPHZG5zMRI/edit
The MikesArcade Nintendo to JAMMA will invert the video image and correct the negative color. Connect it to the edge connector of the DK PCB.
Connect the JAMMA to SCART RGBS to the other end of the NIN2JAMMA.
Hook up your SCART cable to the JAMMA to SCART.
Connect the other end of the SCART cable to the Sync Strike.
The Sync Strike has VGA out - send the VGA to the Datapath card (you will need to connect it using a DVI adapter).
The cool thing about the Datapath is it captures analog video at literally any resolution, and it can capture RGB 8/8/8. That's the highest quality analog video possible.
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Plenty of capture cards have VGA input, like my avermedia c127, and if the sync strike is "correcting" the signal then a potentially lower end capture card could be used. Is there any reason to believe that what comes out of the sync strike wouldn't be compatible with the typical capture card VGA input?
The elgato camlink is also a somewhat affordable capture device that will support the HDMI output from the OSSC. I've recently incorporated that into my setup for line4x and line5x capture from the OSSC.
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Thank you Chris for offering help and Wes for sharing all this great stuff.
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Chris,
After rewiring my cabinet today and setting up my direct feed, I found that by setting the OSSC's vertical sync back porch to 12, you will have a perfectly stabilized image.
(https://i.imgur.com/CKtdvCc.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/M0UQhVB.jpg)
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Looks great, Wes! Vertical scanlines too, nice touch. 8)
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Circling back, I tested out the output from my cab to the OSSC, and my particular setup doesn't play nice with it. I tested my standard setup, and I also tested bypassing the JROK sync cleaner, because the OSSC is known to not like/want a sync cleaner in the chain. In both cases, it did not see the signal.
Not to say that there might be some tweaking to be done on the OSSC to get it to work, but that's about as far as I care to take it.
It is also worth noting that with the sync cleaner removed from the chain, the DVDO VP-30 also did not like the signal. Its LED flashed like it was trying to do something with the signal, but apparently could not sync with it. I don't think I ever tested that when I was initially putting my setup together, just put the sync cleaner in the chain on JROK's recommendation, and got lucky that various device up to and including my current and final setup with the VP30 worked.
Wes - I saw your post on the Video Game Perfection forums. Sorry I can't be much help above and beyond testing my setup, which is fundamentally different from yours. I may pull the board out of the cab eventually and test with the Mike's inverter board->supergun->SCART output to OSSC, but don't have any immediate plans to mess around with out. Here's to hoping you find a quick solution to your problem.
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I suspect my issue is actually related to a capacitor on my own DK PCB, and I have a second board I'll be testing with soon to confirm.
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If you get the same result from the new board, it looks like the output from the cab needs to be routed to OSSC AV3 (based on what Marqs said on the VGP forums). This actually presents a potentially much simpler solution, in theory, albeit not plug and play.
In theory: Mike's Arcade Inverter Board plugged onto PCB edge connector -> custom harness* from MA jamma edge connector to OSSC AV3
*For the custom harness, I'm envisioning something like a 56-pin edge connector with the following wired: R, G, B, Sync, Ground, Audio +, Audio -. Use shielded cat 5/5e/6 for audio and video. At the other end, connect to the appropriate video pins on a HD15 female connector, and something for audio. The easiest solution for audio would be a 3.5mm male headphone plug - wire '+' to L and R, '-' to ground.
56-pin connector: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Arcade-JAMMA-Card-Edge-Connector-56-Pin-Solder-Socket-MAKE-YOUR-OWN-HARNESS/382136384359?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D50963%26meid%3Dda7490ce5289402b96195c0edf76f1ce%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D382136384359%26itm%3D382136384359&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A1d22d891-520f-11e8-af9b-74dbd180850f%7Cparentrq%3A3b50eff01630aa12455915e5fff99ebb%7Ciid%3A1 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Arcade-JAMMA-Card-Edge-Connector-56-Pin-Solder-Socket-MAKE-YOUR-OWN-HARNESS/382136384359?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D50963%26meid%3Dda7490ce5289402b96195c0edf76f1ce%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D382136384359%26itm%3D382136384359&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A1d22d891-520f-11e8-af9b-74dbd180850f%7Cparentrq%3A3b50eff01630aa12455915e5fff99ebb%7Ciid%3A1)
I have a minor concern over DK's sync which I just don't know enough about, and the technical notes for AV3 on the OSSC wiki adds to that: "RGBHV and RGBS modes require clean TTL-level sync signals". Possibly the odd field signaling is not an issue for the OSSC, whereas it is an issue for JROK's board, and why the sync cleaner was needed in conjunction with the JROK board.
I've got a 56-pin connector coming, and other parts on hand to wire up and test this solution. Hoping to get at it this weekend. I've also got a spare sync cleaner, if it doesn't work straight away. This would certainly be a much cleaner arrangement for me, I can ditch all that extra hardware currently in the cab, no need to pull extra power for anything (unless the sync cleaner is needed....but still significantly less power draw than what's currently in place) AND I would no longer be splitting out audio and video to separate destinations. :D
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That is still pretty complicated for those looking for a plug and play solution.
The plug and play solution would be:
DK PCB --> JAMMA to SCART --> Sync Strike --> OSSC
The ArcadeForge Sync Strike (mentioned in my previous posts) acts as a SCART to VGA adapter, and will let you use the AV3 input of the OSSC.
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The direct feed was awesome and it's great to see you playing dk Wes.
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I just finished up the first iteration of the proof of concept. Works like a charm, out of a JAMMA cab.
Should be no reason that wiring the cat5-to-HD15 output to a JAMMA edge connector, and plugging that onto the JAMMA end of the Mike's Arcade inverter board, wouldn't produce the same results. Hope to have the JAMMA edge connector here before the weekend.
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Hey Chris,
I'm not sure if you're using SCART cables, but if you or someone out there doesn't mind cracking one open (they're designed to be opened up by twisting the ends), it's possible to send TTL sync to the OSSC without a sync strike.
http://retrorgb.com/syncinscart.html
(http://retrorgb.com/images/SCARTSyncStripper01.jpg)
This board can go inside of a SCART cable and will convert the sync to TTL sync.
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Hey Wes,
I got a chance to try to fab a cable this weekend and go the route of DK edge connector -> Mike's Arcade inverter/amp board -> JAMMA 56-pin connector/custom cable. Admittedly, it did not go well.
For the edge connector/custom cable, I have R, G, B, Sync and Ground wired up. I first took that to a HD15 connector, and OSSC AV3 input. Tried with and without the JROK sync cleaner (csync), and various resistor configurations on the lines. No sync under any circumstances.
I then gave a go at wiring up a SCART connector and going to OSSC AV1, using this diagram:
http://www.jammaplus.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41329&title=scart-to-jamma-wiring
Again, with and without sync cleaner and various resistor configurations. No sync.
The JROK sync cleaner, although the main IC model number is scratched off, should be equivalent to the LM1881 solution (maybe even the same?).
Unfortunately, while I'm pretty good at following diagrams, I'm no EE. FailFish I'm afraid I gave as much time to it this weekend that I can spare for at least a couple weeks. Will circle back on it when I've got some more time, but for me at least, I'm back to my tried and true DF setup. :0