Donkey Kong Forum
General Donkey Kong Discussion => General Donkey Kong Discussion => Topic started by: LD on July 23, 2016, 05:41:34 pm
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hi does anyone know if playing DK in mame with keyboard is the response time slower than if playing with joystick and buttons. I find I die quite often when barrels are very close and you have to do and early straight jump. I do and then die before I can jump again. I watch guys playing on arcade machines and it looks like they pull off the narrow jumps with ease. Just wondering if anyone knows or has played both and can confirm. Thanks
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You're not imagining things. It might depend on the version of mame and operating system. I played on .153 on windows 7 and the input lag was terrible. It doesn't matter what input device you use.
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Jason - this is interesting - what windows/mame-combo works the best from your experience?
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For me, it's all bad. I could never get .106 to run well on my system. But I've heard good things about that mame version, especially when paired with windows xp.
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I've had trouble with any version that's not 106 on Windows.
The best MAME experience I've had is with SDLMAME on macOS. I believe you can run it on Linux as well... though of course you can't submit scores from this version.
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Yes, Windows xp + wolfmame 106, in my humble opinion. It is slightly better than arcade, somehow. Can't quite quantify it. Maybe the experts can. Seems the enemy/barrel collision boxes are slightly less intrusive or maybe jumpman's is, or both. I also notice a much higher frequency of 800 point awards for smashes in early levels, compared to my cabinet, which seems significantly biased towards 300's, with occasional 500's. :o Ability to group on lower levels also seems better on xp+106 than it is on arcade.
I run MAME (official MAME) .121 on my MAME cab, which is powered by a Windows 2000 PC. It is not quite as good as xp+106, but is pretty good. No noticeable lag, ever so slightly less good than arcade. I also have Windows 10 + official MAME .154, and W10+.154 is garbage, for DK. Noticeable delay, compared to arcade and the other setups mentioned.
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The newer versions of MAME emulate raster effects in the emulated screen. (This emulates a particular quirk of CRT type scanning displays... If the scanning beam was at the top of the screen, and the Z80 draws the character "A" somewhere near the top, but then if the raster scan reaches halfway through the "A" and the Z80 then draws a "B" over the "A", the bottom half of the character will show a "B" while the top half shows "A"...)
In order to emulate this quirk of actual displays, MAME has to construct the entire video field in advance before sending it to the monitor. *Especially since it also has to rotate the screen by 90 degrees before sending it to the monitor*. This automatically adds 1/60th of a second lag on top of any other lags that can be introduced by emulation, LCD displays, scanned controller inputs, etc...
Older versions of MAME will show something updated on the screen 1/60th of a second sooner than the newer versions of MAME.
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Try a PS/2 keyboard. I've never found a usb keyboard that didn't introduce significant lag to DK.
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ok well seems like this is a common problem. I thought it was just my reaction time, but others seem to experience the same problem. This kinda sucks I guess.
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I thought the "expert" <Tim> consensus was that mame was easier? <stirpot> Kappa Kappa
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I thought the "expert" <Tim> consensus was that mame was easier? <stirpot> Kappa Kappa
Yes, Windows xp + wolfmame 106, in my humble opinion. It is slightly better than arcade, somehow.
<stirpot>
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I thought the "expert" <Tim> consensus was that mame was easier? <stirpot> Kappa Kappa
Well sort of. In that experts opinion there is an order of difficulty.
RU Donkey Kong is the hardest.
Arcade Donkey Kong is Hard
MAME Donkey Kong is Easy
Kong Off Arcade Donkey Kongs are the easiest.
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Fffttt jealous MAME haters <Tim>
<Sanders>
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Apparently, MAME is for the birds. You could be ranked 1st with a 1.3M MAME score on Donkey Kong, and it not mean squat to the "powers that be".
Blue Horseshoe loves Windows XP and wolfmameplus-0106.exe.
Old news. <johndaly>
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I'm currently running Mame 0.174 x64 on my MameCab with Windows 7 x64 Professional. My input devices are a Sanwa JLF-TP-8YT with Sanwa OSBN-30 pushbuttons over an IPAC2 USB board and I've never experienced any noticable lag on Donkey Kong. Will get WolfMAME soon for KS attempts and test some versions in comparsion with 0.174.
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I have run some older emulators on the raspberry pi as wel as Wolfmame .172 and .175 on Windows 10. I've tried a couple of keyboards and a home brew arcade controller (with an IPAC2 and Happ Competition switches, buttons, and stick). I feel like I experience lag on all platforms and input devices in Donkey Kong, but not so much in any other game (besides armored car fk that game). Maybe I'm just used to my cab or maybe it has something to do with the HDMI out or my LCD television/monitor. I just don't feel like jumpman is nearly as responsive on MAME.
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I thought the "expert" <Tim> consensus was that mame was easier? <stirpot> Kappa Kappa
Well sort of. In that experts opinion there is an order of difficulty.
RU Donkey Kong is the hardest.
Arcade Donkey Kong is Hard
MAME Donkey Kong is Easy
Kong Off Arcade Donkey Kongs are the easiest.
I wasn't talking about Tims opinion, I was using Tim's definition of experts to pinpoint a specific group.
Also, to be fair, Tim never said RU was the hardest, he simply said it was a 3rd party and he felt that cheating was less likely on this format.
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<confused>
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I use an X Arcade for my MAME set up. I haven't tried keyboard in a very long time to play (years) but the X Arcade works well for almost all of my games. EXCEPT for DK. It's basically useless for the game. Lefts tend to not register, especially in combination with other movements (moving forward and then back jump suddenly, or my favorite is getting crushed going up the first elevator when Jumpman refuses to live up to his name...) Hank Chien refuses to play on an X Arcade for the same reasons.
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Yesterday I was practicing with a savestate for level 4 elevators. I died 5 times in a row (still learning dodging these fking springs...) and the next time I loaded the save state I got a massive lag for some seconds. It felt like the framerate was dropping and the springs were like they're hovering and never actually hit the grider as usual. I think this lag accures from loading the same savestates too fast in a row.
I never played on an original arcade cab so I can't really compare the input on mame with it. But from my subjective recognition I don't receive any input lag while playing a normal game without loading a savestate. Is there a way to show FPS in mame? Maybe we can compare some hardware and config setups on the base of an elevator level (it's the most generic level) with shown FPS.
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I never played on an original arcade cab so I can't really compare the input on mame with it. But from my subjective recognition I don't receive any input lag while playing a normal game without loading a savestate. Is there a way to show FPS in mame? Maybe we can compare some hardware and config setups on the base of an elevator level (it's the most generic level) with shown FPS.
Thats probably the only reason why I don't want to play on a cab, because going make to MAME might not be possible, but that could be taking it to the extreme.
Press F11 to show FPS in MAME. It'll give you a % rather than an absolute value. If your frameskip is set to auto, press F9 to set it to 0/0 - this usually fixes the save state issue, but it can depend on version/game.
:)
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Thanks Barra, I will test some levels on my cab with frameskip 0/0 and the show percentage of FPS. Will post the results and my hardware here!
EDIT: So, I tested Donkey Kong gameplay with frameskip on 0/0 with the said savestate on the elevator level. Everything runs smooth even after loading the state 20 times in a row! Thanks again for that Barra :)
On MAME 0.175 x64 I have 99% of the FPS on all levels. I thougt the 1% goes off from my scanline DirectX configuration but on wolfmame 0.175 x32 I have 100% of the FPS, even with scanlines configured. Maybe the different versions calculating in different ways because of x32 and x64!? All in all I can say gamelag is not something I have to worry about if I can rely on the FPS prompt.
Let's get our eyes on the input lag. As far as I know mame is using RAW Input if you're using a keyboard or an IPAC USB that is recognized as a keyboard on Windows. So we shouldn't have much input lag by definition (?). I really paid attention onto Jumpman's movement after I heard the click of my Sanwa JLF . I couldn't recognize a delay in the movement but I'm sure there are some milliseconds lag, because where data is transmitted there is always lag, isn't it? :P I've tested this ony different levels and on both mame platforms.
The only thing I've noticed is that if I play on wolfmame without any scanlines the game seems to react minimal faster. But I think that is more an illusion because I'm used to the scanlines.
My PC specs in my cab are:
Fujitsu Siemens A19-2A TFT Monitor 19'' 1280x1024 on 75Hz
Intel 2500k 3,7 GHz standard clock
with Intel HD 3000 graphic unit
8 GB RAM
on a Biostar H61MLV3 (H61 Chipset) Motherboard
Windows 7 Pro x64
It's overpowered for running mame but I had the parts to spare.
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What is RU Donkey Kong ?
Anyone play DK on a modded Xbox ? I've got Coin Ops 6 and it seem to use an older version of mame . Seems to play pretty good .
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What is RU Donkey Kong ?
RU refers to Retro Uprising (http://www.retrouprising.com/ (http://www.retrouprising.com/))