Donkey Kong Forum
General Donkey Kong Discussion => General Donkey Kong Discussion => Topic started by: SQUIIDUX on March 18, 2013, 09:27:21 pm
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Good evening everyone!
I have recently purchased a DK machine on craigslist and am having a great time with it. Since i am new to all this, i understand that TG has a pretty crazy routine for recording games. The new TG site's DK recording rules for DK is 404'ing and i would like to know what the procedure is. Thank you for your time. - Dustin
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No one knows for sure what the recording rules will be under the new TG, but I think this thread my have most of the information you'd be looking for as far as the old recording rules and how they might be soon changed under these new owners: https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=27.0 (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=27.0)
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Awesome thank you
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I do have to admit, I was probably the last person sticking to the strict DK recording rules, I have backed off from them lately and going back to a normal arcade recording process. I've heard promises and claims to get the rules updated, but it's been put to the side. There really isn't an official set of recording rules anymore, even on the new TG site it still goes to a dead link.
I stopped doing the unnecessary pre-recording steps. I introduce myself, give the date, show the machine and start, and let the continuous recording speak for itself, and will show all the "goodies" at the end close to the standard recording process. I no longer wait for all the screens to cycle after every restart, once it is already shown once, and will be shown again at the end, I don't feel it is necessary.
If anyone in the community thinks I'm under recording, let me know. But, I would like a TG rep to chime in and possibly talk about the recording rules update.
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Good move. I think the more people that move away from the old recording rules, the better. I feel confident that they will go away.
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Good move. I think the more people that move away from the old recording rules, the better. I feel confident that they will go away.
Me too.....
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I agree, that would save a lot of time and wear on the machines as well as on patience.
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Good move. I think the more people that move away from the old recording rules, the better. I feel confident that they will go away.
Me too.....
Thanks Steve/Ben, but aren't you guys TG refs? do you all have any pull in getting something official?
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As I promised, I will get this fixed (or at least give it my best effort) I just havnt had a chance to go over it with the powers that be.
I will have a definitive answer by next Friday one way or the other.
-Ken
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One would think that refs don't want to waste their time waiting for cycle through, and pre-recorded, duplicated "goodies" either. I really hope something official comes out soon.
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Ken said last night that some changes are coming, and the "special" rules just for DK will go away. We should see some official stuff soon.
Every now and then I would hear a rationale for supporting these "special" rules, but you can poke holes in all the rationales. It was way overdone, and now going to be put back in line with all crediable arcade recording rules. Finally....can't wait to see it official though.
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Thanks Steve/Ben, but aren't you guys TG refs? do you all have any pull in getting something official?
Collectively, me, Ben, Ken and Stephen Boyer all play DK to some degree. We all have worked on our own machines as well and all own or owned a DK at some point. I think we could all agree that making the submission rules for a specific game overly complex because of its popularity and not due to some innate function or trait of the game itself, is not in sync with the new direction of TG.
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Whatever the rules are changed to, I just hope some doofus doesn't try to cheat and end up ruining it for the rest of us :/
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awesome, i really hope something comes out soon. i just hate to see all of these people with highscores not submit becuase the recording rules are over the top.
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Whatever the rules are changed to, I just hope some doofus doesn't try to cheat and end up ruining it for the rest of us :/
To be honest, cheating is just as easy with all the silly rules as without and most of us who are tech savvy know that. The rules will be changed soon, there are others that are going to be changed, some scores removed, some re-instated... Stay tuned!
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I have this odd, hopeful feeling that I'll never see the number "348,691,680" again...
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I believe that no matter what scores are expunged/reinstated, Allen will never see that comic book.
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I have this odd, hopeful feeling that I'll never see the number "348,691,680" again...
It would be so cool to find some source of that score. I did jsut look back and in the magazine "Video Games" with submissions from Walter Day himself to the Mag, this was the scoreboard about a week before the robotron score. Interesting score...But, sure Ken ran across this before also. Funny how these didnt' exist anymore. OK...back to TG recording rules before I derail this important thread.
(http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2150/904309/23814068/406190484.jpg)
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Effective June 20, 1983
Dig Dug - 4,129,600 - Ken Arthur - Blacksburg, WA
Sorry, but I have to ask:
Are guys from the Pacific Northwest, named "Ken", genetically predisposed to excel at this game?
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Looks like with the recent announcement today of Twin Galaxies now accepting submissions that DK is officially back under the realm of normal arcade recording rules. Even though the link on the DK score page does not bring you there, here is the FAQ for a normal arcade record. It's a long read, and looks to be pretty much what the old normal arcade procedure was. But, at least we are free of the shackles of the special DK rules officially now:
http://www.twingalaxies.com/FAQ/#14 (http://www.twingalaxies.com/FAQ/#14)
Think I'll play and record a good game tonight to celebrate. :D
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Wow! Awesome news! Thanks, Ken, as I'm sure you had a hand in this!
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Awesome.
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Q: What does it cost to submit a score to Twin Galaxies?
A: Players may purchase Twin Galaxies score submissions based on three tiers:
- $25.00 – One (1) score submission or up to Two (2) hours of recording
- $60.00 – Three (3) score submission or up to Six (6) hours of recording
- $75.00 – Five (5) score submission or up to Twelve (12) hours of recording
I do have to admit that is probably kind of steep. For me, a full time electrical engineer, with only one score to submit when it happens, $25 is the least of my concern. But man, for the guys who were submitting scores like crazy on multiple title and probably don't have the funds, that is definitely sticker shock.
It is a little confusion, if you have 10 games totalling under 2 hours, do you pick option 1 ($25)? If you have 1 recording of 12 hours, do you still pay option 1 or is that option 3 ($75)? Given the DK game is my only concern, and it's going to be approximately 2.5 hours, I'll assume option 1.
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Yea i'm sure it'' be a touchy subject for many. I am of the same profession and same score submission category as you Dave...so if I ever do get over 1M i'll be happy to pay the $25...but yea for those that have multiple WRs on various games...wow it can add up fast.
"When I have to watch that pile of eight tapes over there for Dwayne Richards’ two-day Nibbler performance, that’s 48 straight hours of paying attention and making sure he’s doing everything correctly."
--Not to mention, that'll be $300.00, please.--
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Back then it was, and I'll quote Billy, a "Labor of Love". Nobody drew a paycheck.
But these are for profit businesses now. Just like Retrocade is a business, a site I never really went to, but knew existed. I didn't get all the details with that Cat getting fired situation before, but did understand that you can't support another competitor while working for the other. Not sure why everyone jumped on the Rob guy. It's business. If articles get traffic to a site, I'm sure he wanted it on his site.
Anyway, not trying to derail the topic of being happy that the rules have been lifted. I'll be back to trying to raise my TG score up now.
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I could argue this both ways.
There were a whole lot of frivolous submissions by people who could be described as compulsive submitters whose names you would see over and over and over almost daily on the "Latest 50" list and this will cut down on a lot of that clutter.
On the other hand, those compulsive submitters, and many others, kept things vibrant. The scoreboards are not going to grow as much as they did, or be as big as they could be, since the fee for submitting will deter submissions, creating an ever-more skewed picture of what the best scores really are. It basically kills the casual player who just wants to be in 50th place or whatever for fun.
Still, I understand why they have to do it this way.
I wish they could make the "How do I record" part of the FAQ a little less "wall of text"y and aesthetically-friendly. The site still needs a lot of work in general on that level, and in terms of usability.
The writing on the site could use a whole lot of help too, and I would most certainly include the recent feature stories in that assessment...
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Looks like with the recent announcement today of Twin Galaxies now accepting submissions that DK is officially back under the realm of normal arcade recording rules. Even though the link on the DK score page does not bring you there, here is the FAQ for a normal arcade record. It's a long read, and looks to be pretty much what the old normal arcade procedure was. But, at least we are free of the shackles of the special DK rules officially now:
http://www.twingalaxies.com/FAQ/#14 (http://www.twingalaxies.com/FAQ/#14)
I was just curious as this link appears to be dead now, but has anyone heard anything different as far as the DK recording rules lately? It's still the same as any other arcade game, right?
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The new link is:
http://www.twingalaxies.com/article/2375/score-submission-rules/ (http://www.twingalaxies.com/article/2375/score-submission-rules/)
scroll down to (the formatting is messed up so it's not even bold or big font once you get down to this section): Q: How do I record an Arcade Game?
A lot of reading, but there's no reason not to believe this is the format now since DK is an arcade machine.
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I just went by the normal arcade recording rules for my recent DK submission and and it was verified with no issues.
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I just went by the normal arcade recording rules for my recent DK submission and and it was verified with no issues.
Who did you end up sending it to out of curiosity?
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I just went by the normal arcade recording rules for my recent DK submission and and it was verified with no issues.
Who did you end up sending it to out of curiosity?
Stephen Boyer
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It seems TG has reinstated the Special DK rules again. If you click "Official Settings", this link now appears at the top of the DK high score list:
http://www.twingalaxies.com/donkey-kong-recording-rules/ (http://www.twingalaxies.com/donkey-kong-recording-rules/)
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I do most of these rules now anyways, except that I keep the back door off at all times. I never have it on the machine at all. Maybe I should lock it up, I mean, I wouldn't want anyone to steal my stuff. :)
Doesn't turning on and then off and then on again negatively impact the monitor and boards at all? I am accustomed to turning my machine off every night and it is left off most of the time. I don't like leaving it on for long periods of time.
Don't forget people, no "garbage" screen no valid score submission, oh and make sure you have the original power supply, and we all know how the game plays differently if you put more than one credit in the machine, lol.
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I'd probably close the back door as UV light can corrupt the ROMs. The garbage screen rule was probably there to distinguish arcade from MAME. I don't know enough about the power supply to comment. Apparently some games do behave differently if there is more than 1 credit... certainly DK isn't one of them. These rules were written in an era of paranoia and they served their purpose, but I think we've outgrown them now.
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i doubt they have reinstated those rules, id guess someone who didnt know whats what just fixed the link or something?
8)
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^ Yea that's what I was thinking...someone maybe accidentally changed the link.
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Did we ever get a straight answer over why they wanted to see an original power supply? I read one post a long time ago where it was mentioned that a different power supply could cause flickering enemy sprites to appear in places where they didn't belong (but I don't think you could score points off of them because they didn't actually exist), and this CLEARLY would NOT be an advantage to the player. Was there some concern that it could potentially cause the game to run slower than 60 frames per second? I don't know enough about the hardware of these games to understand how the speed of the game is guaranteed to remain consistent so maybe that had nothing to do with it I don't know. It was definitely the one piece of the DK rules (other than the restart rule) which got the most scrutiny as it made no sense to any of the players.
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it was PSP who made that rule, he said something about graphic glitches, i dont remember exactly what though...iv also read people refer to 'sparkles'...i do have a switching PS that causes white pixels to 'sparkle' in certain areas of the screen on my DK cab...if i remember right they went away when i plugged the switcher into an emi filter gang plug. i never saw any other sprite issue...
iv been thinking of reinstalling the switcher now those rules are unofficially dead, ill see how it goes...
8)
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Thanks for the mention of the UV light, Hank. I have my cabs in a dark basement which have no direct sun light, very dim if at all, and behind a wall to that dimness as well. If that is still a problem then I can definitely still set it up against the back if nothing more than that.
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Thanks for the mention of the UV light, Hank.
Yeah it's definitely more than a theoretical concern. When I first got my DK machine (the back faces my balcony) I left my back door open as I was constantly fixing/adjusting things. After a few months my ROMs became corrupt and I had to buy a new board.
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Put a covering (electrical tape is good) over the windows on the ROMs and they'll be protected from light exposure.
Many game manufacturers did that, but not Nintendo. I don't understand why.
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Looks like with the recent announcement today of Twin Galaxies now accepting submissions that DK is officially back under the realm of normal arcade recording rules. Even though the link on the DK score page does not bring you there, here is the FAQ for a normal arcade record. It's a long read, and looks to be pretty much what the old normal arcade procedure was. But, at least we are free of the shackles of the special DK rules officially now:
http://www.twingalaxies.com/FAQ/#14 (http://www.twingalaxies.com/FAQ/#14)
Think I'll play and record a good game tonight to celebrate. :D
I'm linking back to this message as a record of when the TG DK recroding rules switched back to normal. As a test, if you "submitted" a score for DK, on the submission page you were linked to the basic arcade recording rules.
Before this, The old TG had the extended rules, then one day the link stopped working, it stopped working for a while, over a year, however we were still following them.
Fast forward, to after the quoted message, The new TG was still in development, someone on the IT side of it must have been asked why this link to the DK rules is not working, then suddendly the link gets fixed, but the link was pointing to the special rules. See quote below:
It seems TG has reinstated the Special DK rules again. If you click "Official Settings", this link now appears at the top of the DK high score list:
http://www.twingalaxies.com/donkey-kong-recording-rules/ (http://www.twingalaxies.com/donkey-kong-recording-rules/)
Now of course I don't know the real reason, but it just "appears" that all that happened was a glitch was fixed. Because I know Ken played a big part in helping us get DK back in line with the rest of the recording.
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I don't think the rules were ever switched away. I think the link to the DK rules was broken for a while, people heard unofficially via word-of-mouth that the rules were going to be switched and assumed that the rules were already changed.
Everything that's being said is unofficial. Even Ken says that it's their intention to change the rules to be the same as every other arcade game, but that it hasn't been done officially yet.
At the same time, I don't know anyone that's still doing the pre-game/restart verification steps. I certainly don't want to be the only one.
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Well, if that's the case, a lot were under the impression for a while. I think I was one of the few that was still doing the full rules up to that point. But, the prerecording to show dipswitches and board # and cycling of screen all were pointless.
Lately I flip on the camera with the machine off looking at the machine, I introduce myself with the date and time and intention, I flip the machine on, I zoom in, I restart to show the rug pattern, and boom, I flip twitch on and start playing.
If I get a score, I will record all of the inside and show the control panel....I wasn't planning on doing the 2-player start thing, and techincally I wasn't going to take the board out, but now I would.
Other than skipping the 2 player start line, what really would be wrong with what I just said I'll do, and Stephen was goign to be OK with it. My pre/post record wouldn't have been broadcasted to twitch anyway for scrutiny. Streaming your game is not a requirement.
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I don't think the rules were ever switched away. I think the link to the DK rules was broken for a while, people heard unofficially via word-of-mouth that the rules were going to be switched and assumed that the rules were already changed.
Back in June when I submitted, the link went to the normal arcade recording rules. Sometime around August, it started going to the "Special DK Rules" again.
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Back in June when I submitted, the link went to the normal arcade recording rules. Sometime around August, it started going to the "Special DK Rules" again.
I didn't know that. I thought it was just a dead link during that time. I agree, that's completely misleading then.
I don't think DK rules will ever be the same as every other arcade game. The 4-way/8-way thing alone is different from every other game. I don't think the controls are scrutinized as much for any other game.
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Thats why I stated that on my timeline:
As a test, if you "submitted" a score for DK, on the submission page you were linked to the basic arcade recording rules.
I thought the old rules were dead and buried with the old TG after that. Archiving the old TG actually hurt us. ???
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There is no way to make everyone happy right now, we all know that. Robbies score was not DQ'd for not following the pointless and unnecessary rules, I firmly believe it would have gone thru except for the joystick (and I would have fought for that). The joystick does make a difference and has been proven to influence gameplay (even though I believe this was HARDER on Robbie instead of an advantage).
I promise after KO3 these rules will be fixed OFFICIALLY. Until then, i would not give any reason for a score to be DQ'd. The rules suck but they are not impossible to follow.
Lets all rally for Robbie, Eric will be able to get a proper stick in there today and maybe he'll bust out a 1.1!
-Ken
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There is no way to make everyone happy right now, we all know that. Robbies score was not DQ'd for not following the pointless and unnecessary rules, I firmly believe it would have gone thru except for the joystick (and I would have fought for that). The joystick does make a difference and has been proven to influence gameplay (even though I believe this was HARDER on Robbie instead of an advantage).
I promise after KO3 these rules will be fixed OFFICIALLY. Until then, i would not give any reason for a score to be DQ'd. The rules suck but they are not impossible to follow.
Lets all rally for Robbie, Eric will be able to get a proper stick in there today and maybe he'll bust out a 1.1!
-Ken
I agree Ken, I'll probably go back to the rules just for this week. I'll rally for Robbie, but I'm also making attempts also. ;) If my score happens this week then Robbie's score would have been for naught anyway since it was in 12th. Lets see how this turns out.
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Dave, I am rooting for you too, and everyone else who wants to get in! This is the best and worst part of competition!
-Ken
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Given all the recent events...something that hasn't exactly been answered officially yet is when the actual drop dead hour, minute, second...is, for making the top 12. Then there are all the what-if scenarios.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone put up a 9th, 10th place score on October 25th, that ended at 11:53pm, and it wasn't submitted online until 12:06am October 26. Would this count? Or would they be out of luck because although they played the game, it wasn't submitted in time?
Or, a score is put up tonight, officially submitted online in time, sent in the mail to be reviewed, but a couple days before the KO3, say Nov 13, the score is thrown out due to a technicality. Something like this might cause a player to miss out on the event completely because they thought they weren't in the event, or top 12, altogether...when they actually were in the top 12...and don't find out that official news until the day before...and they live in Florida or something.
All this top 12 stuff at the last minute...anything could happen.
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Given all the recent events...something that hasn't exactly been answered officially yet is when the actual drop dead hour, minute, second...is, for making the top 12.
I think the response we got was pretty clear (in the KO3 questions thread):
"All scores must be SUBMITTED by 10/25/13 at 11:59 pm"
This isn't a game end time nor a postmarked by time. If it were up to me and someone submitted a score at 12:06am, I'd reject it for top 12 purposes. It wouldn't be fair to the person in 12th (which happens to be you). The only possible ambiguity is the time zone, but I think it's safe to say the person who wrote that was in Mountain Time and was referring to their own time zone.
Or, a score is put up tonight, officially submitted online in time, sent in the mail to be reviewed, but a couple days before the KO3, say Nov 13, the score is thrown out due to a technicality.
Something like this is out of everyone's control. This would be a pretty rare event. I think the last time a score on DK was accepted and then later rejected was when Wiebe's 98x-99xK games were later found out to been performed on a DDK/8-way. It was even worse for him because there were no special DK rules at the time stating that 8-ways were not allowed.
There will always be things that are out of everyone's control. What if I have a patient that has an emergency at the last minute? What if Denver gets flooded that weekend? What if people's flights get canceled? What if Allen's car gets towed? No set of rules will prevent situations like that. Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world.
I realize everyone at the border of Top 12 is on edge right now. I wish good luck to everyone. Mike, I think you should go to KO3 regardless of whether you are top 12. You are clearly one of the best DK players regardless of whether you are officially top 12 or not. Even if you have to play on WC's, I don't think they are at a huge disadvantage this year.
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Actually that second quote scenario is not a rare event, just yesterday had Robbie not streamed his post verification and did it only with his camera and sent it in, we'd all think that it was valid and mike would have cancelled his flight. By the time it got to TG and they noticed it was wrong, it would have been after the 25th.
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Yeah I guess I was thinking verified and then later rejected. Fortunately the problems were picked up quickly. Kudos to Ken House and TG for making a quick ruling.
EDIT: When was the last time any DK score was rejected (before Robbie)?
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Yeah I guess I was thinking verified and then later rejected. Fortunately the problems were picked up quickly. Kudos to Ken House and TG for making a quick ruling.
EDIT: When was the last time any DK score was rejected (before Robbie)?
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I believe mine was the first. However, my score wasn't rejected nor disputed, just covered up and aspersions cast long enough so that when the checks cleared from Picture House and the TG insiders got their money, "THEN" I was contacted and given the credit for having the score before billy........not the money like the others got, but hey, we are talking about TG.
Why would I get upset?!!!!
Just makes me want to invest more time in setting more records :/................or maybe I'll just buy them like Steve W. instead.