Author Topic: Wiebe's 885k  (Read 10124 times)

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Offline RTM

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Wiebe's 885k
« on: May 24, 2020, 12:51:52 am »
https://web.archive.org/web/20020408172037/https://www.twingalaxies.com/cgi-perl/dayrep_Feb_2002.pl


Hello fellow gamers:

     This was brought to my attention this evening out of the blue by a gamer who spotted this while doing research via the Wayback Machine.

     There is a blurb here (link above), written by Walter Day in Feb/02, having to do with Donkey Kong...
-> It mentions a new score by Steve Wiebe of 884K...a score I never verified, never received a tape for nor even knew about
-> It mentions Bill had a new score of 950K which he would be submitting on tape of 950K...a score which I also never received a tape for nor even knew about
-> Neither of these two scores was ever entered into the TG database back then
-> Other than this blurb neither score is ever mentioned by Walter again...

https://www.twingalaxies.com/archive/index.php/t-118669.html

     Note that in the link immediately above, written by Walter much later, it mentions that as of 2004 Steve's 947K score was the top score...the one that I DID verify, and it mentions both Tim's and Bill's scores...but it lists Bill only at 933K which is a different performance

     My recollection of dealing with Steve for the first time is when he contacted me at my office immediately prior to the DK WR of 947K...he said he set a new WR but was playing at the wrong settings as I realized from the discussion (he had extra lives at start set to them max) so he said he would try again at 3+1 which he did. Steve did NOT mention anything about previous dealings with TG or Walter, and when I contacted Walter/Billy to let them know after the initial call that a gamer broke Bills' score (notice I said Bill as I knew nothing of Tim at the time), neither Walter nor Bill said a single word about any conversation with Steve from as far back as 18 months earlier. And in that entire 18 months there was no mention of Steve Wiebe with respect to DK on the TG forum or even communication with my few fellow referees at the time.

     So, my question...just what the heck happened in truth back in early 2002 when Walter posted what he did...with NO major fanfare, no scores entered into the TG database, and never a single follow-up about that 950K performance.?

     Stinks to the high heavens...makes you wonder why such high-profile news, not just one but two new DK WR announcements, were given such little fanfare or even follow up by Walter. I was appointed TG's chief referee on 7/01/01 and this news was never shared with me when he wrote it in early 2002, nor was it mentioned once Steve submitted 947K 18 months later, and that includes the parts related to both Steve and Bill. How very strange indeed.

Robert
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Offline FBX

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Re: Wiebe's 885k
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2020, 01:35:20 pm »
@RTM,

My recollection is very vague from it being something like 18 years now, but I remember Walter sending me a box of tapes to make video excerpts from for movie clips to be shown on the TG web site for promotional purposes. In that box was Steve's 885K (or whatever the exact score was). I remember watching it and then contacting Walter, who then went into a weird panic about how I should never have gotten that tape. He had me immediately ship it back out after I made some video clips of it for the web site, and I don't recall if he had me send it back to him or to someone else. Apparently that is the 'lost' Steve tape I'm guessing? But yeah I watched it and made a few highlight clips as that was a duty Walter was having me to do for several video tapes. Those clips are long gone as they were on a PC some 3 or 4 generations ago, and I've had hard drive failures since then where I lost everything I had. TG should have had their own copy of the clips, since they were uploaded to the web site, but it would have been up to the site owner to make backups, which likely didn't happen.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 01:38:14 pm by FBX »
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Offline colecomeister

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Re: Wiebe's 885k
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2020, 02:15:12 pm »
The link to the old TG video archive that FirebrandX set up is found here:

https://www.twingalaxies.com/firebrandx/video/

Unfortunately, the Wayback Machine did not crawl the video .zip files. I'm not sure if Jace has access to an older iteration of the TG website - my understanding is that the site was basically "rebuilt" when it was purchased by Adler. It's possible that somewhere, a TG member downloaded these clips back when the old site was live and kept them on a forgotten PC. Not sure how you'd put the call out to see if the crew that visited the site circa 2002-2003 might still have them, maybe worth a TG wall post to start things off...
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Offline Snowflake

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Re: Wiebe's 885k
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2020, 09:18:57 am »
steve's "884k" score in that link (actually  885,900) was indeed mentioned again in a thread (though not be walter) you were part of robert so you did know about it at the time you just apparently later forgot.  if this thread is accurate then it was entered in the scoreboard.
https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/109558-Anyone-get-a-Million-pts.on-Donkey-Kong-&-questions?p=557734#post557734

the same link firebrandx references videos that sadly can no longer be referenced.

i'm also not understanding the issue. I know part of the informal case against billy is that he'd have tapes that beat steve but pull the tape is steves record got pulled implying he'd only cheat as a last resort and pull his cheated score if he didnt need it.  is the implication here simliar? that bilys score was fake but once steves score was pulled so was billys? if thats not the implication i'm not understanding what the problem is.
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Offline colecomeister

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Re: Wiebe's 885k
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2020, 10:00:30 am »
The main catalyst was to confirm via TG sources that Wiebe submitted a 885k score in 2002 (he mentioned this fact in an interview but it was not widely known, possibly lost in the coverage of the 947k submission). So first and foremost its historical interest. I don't think anyone recalled that Day basically staked out that Mitchell had surpassed 885k with a pending tape submission of 950k, more or less giving Mitchell's unofficial claim the limelight. That's also for historical interest, not directly related to the larger dispute review per se.
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Offline Snowflake

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Re: Wiebe's 885k
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2020, 11:48:52 am »
understood, but the later 'stinking to high heaven" remark i took as some sort of implication this is indicative of an issue that i couldnt understand other than the one speculative possibility i mentioned.
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Offline colecomeister

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Re: Wiebe's 885k
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2020, 02:50:17 pm »
In re reading RTMs post and FirebrandX, there certainly was some strangeness going on but then again FirebrandX did put up clips of Wiebe's score. I did find mention of Mitchell's forthcoming 950k video tape submission in Wiebe's announcement a bit offside in taking some of Wiebe's thunder. The method of submission also stood out given recent events.
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Offline RTM

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Re: Wiebe's 885k
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2020, 06:32:54 pm »
The main catalyst was to confirm via TG sources that Wiebe submitted a 885k score in 2002 (he mentioned this fact in an interview but it was not widely known, possibly lost in the coverage of the 947k submission). So first and foremost its historical interest. I don't think anyone recalled that Day basically staked out that Mitchell had surpassed 885k with a pending tape submission of 950k, more or less giving Mitchell's unofficial claim the limelight. That's also for historical interest, not directly related to the larger dispute review per se.



RTM REPLY - it was suggested earlier that perhaps I "forgot" about the earlier Wiebe score.

     As I stated earlier within this thread, and which I have told Jace Hall, I was completely unaware of the existence of the earlier 885K submission by Wiebe, same for Walter's posts as to that OR the 950K by Billy on tape, neither of which was in the TG database.

    Take a look at the link below...

https://www.twingalaxies.com/archive/index.php/t-118321.html

     The key quote here...

Billy Mitchell scored 874,300 points at Twin Galaxies on November 7, 1982. His record stood until August 17, 2000 when Tim Sczerby scored 879,200 points in Auburn, NY. When Tim scored this new record, his achievement was published on the Twin Galaxies website and the story was sent out all over the Internet. Also, Walter Day, Chief Scorekeeper at Twin Galaxies personally phoned Tim and congratulated him on his great accomplishment. A few days later, Billy himself phoned Tim and congratulated him. These facts are supported by Tim Sczerby himself in an interview published here:

At no time did Billy Mitchell, in a fit of desperation, attempt to wrest back his world record. In fact, he hardly cared about the loss and went about his normal life as a father of three children and a hot sauce manufacturer. His actions were simply to congratulate Tim Sczerby and say goodbye to his 16-year record on Donkey Kong.

Then, Steve Wiebe, who appeared on the arcade gaming scene for the first time, took the Donkey Kong, Jr. World Record from Billy Mitchell in July, 2002. Again Billy Mitchell took no action to try and regain his record. He simply let it go. And he congratulated Steve for fine work.

And, the staff of Twin Galaxies welcomed Steve with open arms, crowning him the new world champion. It should be noted that Steve enjoyed a tremendous amount of publicity from this accomplishment, appearing in many news stories. These news stories did not happen by accident; they were engineered by Walter Day and the Twin Galaxies staff who spent much time promoting Steve Wiebe as the new star of Donkey Kong, Jr. The resulting wave of publicity for Steve Wiebe brought a near-record number of visitors to the Twin Galaxies website making the TG website server crash again and again from the onslaught of attention that Twin Galaxies brought to Steve Wiebe.

Next, Steve Wiebe broke Tim Sczerby's Donkey Kong World Record on about June 30, 2003, scoring 947,200 points. Again, Twin Galaxies embraced Steve's accomplishment with open arms, publicizing his achievement with great success, getting Steve in many news stories, and, once again, making the Twin Galaxies website server crash from the overload of visitors. And, once again, Billy Mitchell did nothing to take back the DK record. And, to show the extreme degree of respect extended to Steve Wiebe by Twin Galaxies, referee Robert Mruczek spent the time to publish this detailed report on Steve's successful accomplishment:


     That was written by Walter and makes NO mention of the 885K score by Steve or the 950K by Billy.

Next up...

https://www.twingalaxies.com/archive/index.php/t-118669.html

The Donkey Kong Standings looked like this in July, 2003:
1. 947,200 Steve J Wiebe 07/06/2003
2. 933,900 Billy L Mitchell 05/27/2004
3. 879,200 Timothy Sczerby 8/17/00

The Donkey Kong Standings looked like this on the day Funspot 2005 started:
1. 947,200 Steve J Wiebe 07/06/2003
2. 933,900 Billy L Mitchell 05/27/2004
3. 879,200 Timothy Sczerby 8/17/00

The Donkey Kong Standings looked like this after Funspot 2005 until January 30, 2006:
1. 985,600 Steve J Wiebe 06/2/05
2. 933,900 Billy L Mitchell 05/27/2004
3. 879,200 Timothy Sczerby 8/17/00

     Once more, no mention of the 885K score by Steve or the 950K by Billy.

     In the original 947K article which I wrote back in 2003, which unfortunately I can no longer find the link to although I do have the original file long-since sent to Jace, it makes no mention of Wiebe "upping" his previous score as such did not exist yet. When Walter was advised as to the incoming 947K VHS tape, he made no mention that Wiebe had previously sent HIM a tape which he himself supposedly verified and entered into the TG database.

     Someone is incorrect in stating that I "forgot"...you can't forget something that was never thre...OR if it was there and then mysteriously removed by Walter.

     Further proof, from Paul Dean's site...

http://spyhunter007.com/steve_wiebe_donkey_kong_timeline.htm

Key quote - "Feb 2003 - Steve Wiebe decides to go for the Donkey Kong world record on DOnkey Kong with his Double Donkey Kong Board"

     No mention of the earlier 885K score is made.

Next URL...

https://superbunker.com/resources/dkt/

Key point - nothing from 2001 thru June 2003 related to Wiebe

     There is absolutely zero proof that I can find that shows the existence of 885K on the TG scoreboard/database save for the wall page blurb in early 2002 and a subsequent post a year later by Rick Carter. in Jan/03.

     Finally, attached is an RTF format file which can be opened in WordPad...this is the original 947.2K article from July 2003 and it mentions nothing of an earlier DK score by Wiebe (aside from his DK Jr score which was a different title and performance). Neither is a purported 950K by Billy mentioned.

     I have zero doubt that as of July 2003 there was no mention of a score by Wiebe of 885K, and I had no prior knowledge of Walter's earlier involvement with Wiebe. Neither Walter nor Billy mentioned anything of the earlier 885K score when I called them to inform of Wiebe's 947K score.

     Here below is the original 947K article itself, also as an enclosure.

BREAKING NEWS - NEW WORLD RECORD ON DONKEY KONG (ARCADE)
As reported July 5th, 2003


Hello fellow gamers:

     One of the most revered classic arcade records has fallen !! On June 30th, 2003, Steve Wiebe who hails from Redmond, Washington, has done it again. Last year he became the first player in Twin Galaxies history to pass the one million-point barrier on "Donkey Kong Junior". This year, Steve's focus was on none other than it's venerable predecessor, "Donkey Kong" itself. The new world record, as verified by Twin Galaxies, now stands at a lofty 947,200 points.

     I had the pleasure of watching Steve's achievement as captured on videotape, and this was the first time ever that I had personally witnessed the "kill screen" in action. Most players have no idea whether "Donkey Kong" actually ends, but let me tell you, it does when you reach level 22 and start with a timer so low that it is absolutely impossible to make it up to the top of the screen, let alone the third girder up.

     In total, there are 116 playable screens that you can complete before reaching the "kill screen"...level one has two (2) stages, level two has three (3) stages. level three has four (4) stages, level four has five (5) stages, and levels 6 thru 21 have six (6) stages each, and of these (not including the "kill screen"), over half are "barrel" stages. The 117th and final stage (level 22-1, a "barrel" stage) offers few opportunities for points...perhaps 400-500 at most, before the timer expires.

     The name "Donkey Kong", when literally translated into colloquial English, roughly means stupid ape". Well, I beg to differ...this "stupid ape" is tough enough that only a small handful of players worldwide are documented in having beaten the game by reaching the "kill screen". Not so stupid after all, it seems !!

     The game allows you three (3) lives to start and an extra life earned at the 10K mark, which Steve easily earned. Steve's achievement took nearly 2 hours of game play, and although he had lost his third life relatively early in the game, he kept things going for a remarkable period of time, reminding gamers everywhere "Never give up, never say die", classic advice from another "Donkey Kong" master, legendary gamer Bill Mitchell.

     Owning the world record on a title such as "Donkey Kong" is quite an achievement, as the title has not changed hands much over the past few years. Only one other gamer in recorded Twin Galaxies history, Bill Mitchell, has simultaneously owned world records on both "Donkey Kong" and it's sequel, "Donkey Kong Junior", so Steve is part of a very elite group of gamers for sure.

     Without further ado, here is the recap of Steve's performance, the finishing points at the end of each stage, followed by a few closing thoughts...

     *********************************************

     THE PATH TO VICTORY

Stage 1-1 - 'Barrel Stage' - 8,400
Stage 1-2 - 'Rivet Stage' - 13,000

Stage 2-1 - 'Barrel Stage' - 21,000
Stage 2-2 - 'Elevator Stage' - 27,000
Stage 2-3 - 'Rivet Stage' - 33,900

Stage 3-1 - 'Barrel Stage' - 41,800
Stage 3-2 - 'Conveyor Belt Stage' - 49,400
Stage 3-3 - 'Elevator Stage' - 55,900
Stage 3-4 - 'Rivet Stage' - 63,000

Stage 4-1 - 'Barrel' - 73,800
Stage 4-2 - 'Conveyor' - 79,200
Stage 4-3 - 'Barrel' - 88,600
Stage 4-4 - 'Elevator' - 94,700
Stage 4-5 - 'Rivet' - 103,400

     Beginning with Level 5, there are six (6) stages per level, three (3) of which are "Barrel Stages". For the benefit of fellow competitors, additional statistics follow at the end of this recap.

Stage 5-1 - 'Barrel' - 114500   
Stage 5-2 - 'Conveyor' - 122800   
Stage 5-3 - 'Barrel' - 132800   
Stage 5-4 - 'Elevator' - 139800   
Stage 5-5 - 'Barrel' - 148900   
Stage 5-6 - 'Rivet' - 156800   Level 5 Cumulative Points - 53400
Stage 6-1 - 'Barrel' - 166400   
Stage 6-2 - 'Conveyor' - 174600   
Stage 6-3 - 'Barrel' - 185600   
Stage 6-4 - 'Elevator' - 192400   
Stage 6-5 - 'Barrel' - 202100   
Stage 6-6 - 'Rivet' - 210500   Level 6 Cumulative Points - 53700
Stage 7-1 - 'Barrel' - 220900   
Stage 7-2 - 'Conveyor' - 229300   
Stage 7-3 - 'Barrel' - 238200   
Stage 7-4 - 'Elevator' - 245300   
Stage 7-5 - 'Barrel' - 255200   
Stage 7-6 - 'Rivet' - 262000   Level 7 Cumulative Points - 51500
Stage 8-1 - 'Barrel' - 274500   
Stage 8-2 - 'Conveyor' - 282800   
Stage 8-3 - 'Barrel' - 292700   
Stage 8-4 - 'Elevator' - 299600   
Stage 8-5 - 'Barrel' - 310400   
Stage 8-6 - 'Rivet' - 317700   Level 8 Cumulative Points - 55700
Stage 9-1 - 'Barrel' - 326400   
Stage 9-2 - 'Conveyor' - 333800   
Stage 9-3 - 'Barrel' - 343600   
Stage 9-4 - 'Elevator' - 350400   
Stage 9-5 - 'Barrel' - 360400   
Stage 9-6 - 'Rivet' - 368500   Level 9 Cumulative Points - 50800
Stage 10-1 - 'Barrel' - 378400   
Stage 10-2 - 'Conveyor' - 388300   
Stage 10-3 - 'Barrel' - 398700   
Stage 10-4 - 'Elevator' - 405500   
Stage 10-5 - 'Barrel' - 416300   
Stage 10-6 - 'Rivet' - 424400   Level 10 Cumulative Points - 55900
Stage 11-1 - 'Barrel' - 434800   
Stage 11-2 - 'Conveyor' - 443100   
Stage 11-3 - 'Barrel' - 451600   
Stage 11-4 - 'Elevator' - 457600   
Stage 11-5 - 'Barrel' - 467800   
Stage 11-6 - 'Rivet' - 472100   Level 11 Cumulative Points - 47700
Stage 12-1 - 'Barrel' - 482100   
Stage 12-2 - 'Conveyor' - 490300   
Stage 12-3 - 'Barrel' - 500600   
Stage 12-4 - 'Elevator' - 506800   
Stage 12-5 - 'Barrel' - 516500   
Stage 12-6 - 'Rivet' - 520700   Level 12 Cumulative Points - 48600
Stage 13-1 - 'Barrel' - 531700   
Stage 13-2 - 'Conveyor' - 539800   
Stage 13-3 - 'Barrel' - 548800   
Stage 13-4 - 'Elevator' - 555100   
Stage 13-5 - 'Barrel' - 564300   
Stage 13-6 - 'Rivet' - 571100   Level 13 Cumulative Points - 50400
Stage 14-1 - 'Barrel' - 579700   
Stage 14-2 - 'Conveyor' - 587200   
Stage 14-3 - 'Barrel' - 595800   
Stage 14-4 - 'Elevator' - 602000   
Stage 14-5 - 'Barrel' - 611100   
Stage 14-6 - 'Rivet' - 618900   Level 14 Cumulative Points - 47800
Stage 15-1 - 'Barrel' - 627700   
Stage 15-2 - 'Conveyor' - 636100   
Stage 15-3 - 'Barrel' - 644700   
Stage 15-4 - 'Elevator' - 649700   
Stage 15-5 - 'Barrel' - 658200   
Stage 15-6 - 'Rivet' - 666600   Level 15 Cumulative Points - 47700
Stage 16-1 - 'Barrel' - 675300   
Stage 16-2 - 'Conveyor' - 681600   
Stage 16-3 - 'Barrel' - 690400   
Stage 16-4 - 'Elevator' - 696600   
Stage 16-5 - 'Barrel' - 704400   
Stage 16-6 - 'Rivet' - 712400   Level 16 Cumulative Points - 45800
Stage 17-1 - 'Barrel' - 720800   
Stage 17-2 - 'Conveyor' - 727400   
Stage 17-3 - 'Barrel' - 736100   
Stage 17-4 - 'Elevator' - 742400   
Stage 17-5 - 'Barrel' - 751400   
Stage 17-6 - 'Rivet' - 757800   Level 17 Cumulative Points - 45400
Stage 18-1 - 'Barrel' - 766000   
Stage 18-2 - 'Conveyor' - 774400   
Stage 18-3 - 'Barrel' - 782700   
Stage 18-4 - 'Elevator' - 788400   
Stage 18-5 - 'Barrel' - 797300   
Stage 18-6 - 'Rivet' - 804800   Level 18 Cumulative Points - 47000
Stage 19-1 - 'Barrel' - 813100   
Stage 19-2 - 'Conveyor' - 821500   
Stage 19-3 - 'Barrel' - 829700   
Stage 19-4 - 'Elevator' - 836600   
Stage 19-5 - 'Barrel' - 844900   
Stage 19-6 - 'Rivet' - 853800   Level 19 Cumulative Points - 49000
Stage 20-1 - 'Barrel' - 862800   
Stage 20-2 - 'Conveyor' - 870600   
Stage 20-3 - 'Barrel' - 879400   
Stage 20-4 - 'Elevator' - 885400   
Stage 20-5 - 'Barrel' - 893300   
Stage 20-6 - 'Rivet' - 901000   Level 20 Cumulative Points - 47200
Stage 21-1 - 'Barrel' - 909400   
Stage 21-2 - 'Conveyor' - 913100   
Stage 21-3 - 'Barrel' - 923500   
Stage 21-4 - 'Elevator' - 928800   
Stage 21-5 - 'Barrel' - 938700   
Stage 21-6 - 'Rivet' - 946800   Level 21 Cumulative Points - 45800

     The "kill screen" itself yielded, as expected, only 400 more points, for a finishing score of 947,200. Steve let out a hearty "All Right !!" after the final life was lost and the new world record was now a reality. He entered his initials into the game screen, and that was the last step...he was now the best in the world at "Donkey Kong" !!

     He next took the time to pan the video camera over the unit to show that an actual arcade upright was being used, and zoomed in for a close-up on the score. "There you have it...947..." he said, trailing off a bit, as there was no reason to say "947 thousand"...we all know what he meant. "Okay, that's it. I'll try for a million...I know I can do it, but..." and his thoughts trail off, as either the fact that he set a new world record was still being absorbed, or the premise of doing it again AND scoring an additional 53K was too daunting to consider right now. He continues with "...anyway, I don't know if Billy (Mitchell) already has a score in the 950K range, but hopefully I can still get better. Well, I'll keep playing. See ya, guys !!" and he cuts off the taping.

     And there were many moments of excitement that happened during Steve's performance. My apologies that I am listing them afterwards, but in order to obtain the extra statistics using EXCEL that I will present you with later, it was not possible for me to have the text alongside the points-per-level. So here goes...

     TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS

(8-1) Steve's first loss of a man occurred on stage (8-1) at 263,900 points when he was caught by a fireball at the lower right corner while using the hammer. The timer expired for the hammer and the fireball caught him.

(8-6) He had major problems this stage with the fireballs and became trapped near the top left, losing his second life at 331,500 points...still a great game in progress and with one life in reserve.

(10-2) was incredibly tough...all but one of the fireballs chased Steve to the lowest level and he tried valiantly to escape. With a few seconds left, and opening presented itself (barely) and he managed to get to the top left ladder by 100 on the timer, but at that precise instant the ladder reversed directions, and Steve lost his 3rd life while on the ladder at 380,100 points...a long way from the kill screen...over 70 screens, in fact. Nonetheless, Steve continued against all odds.

(11-5) Steve passed the 60-minute mark with 458,000 points even.

(11-6) One of the many "Do-or-Die" moments Steve faced this game?he was forced to jump over a moving fireball to get the top hammer, and as all "Donkey Kong" players know, it is not a maneuver with a 100% success rate. Taking the moment in stride, Steve pressed on.

(13-1) Steve slightly switches strategies on this stage, taking a few less risks and in the process sacrificing potential points, perhaps because he's on his last life.

(13-2) For the first time this game, Steve makes use of the central hammer located on the lower conveyor belt due to another "Do-or-Die" situation, this time faced with a hoard of relentless fireballs hot on his tail (pun intended).

(14-6) Use of the topmost hammer was denied to Steve due to a very protective fireball hovering directly beneath it almost the entire last half of the stage. So be it?that was one less fireball to avoid, so he ignored the potential points and went for a clean stage finish.

(15-3) "Donkey Kong" is getting quite aggressive now?Steve is almost nailed, twice, by wildly thrown barrels near the top left section, a very dangerous section as "Donkey Kong" chucks one barrel at an angle, and Steve barely managed to avoid it, and almost immediately drops another straight down. Undaunted, Steve continued to finish this wave.

(15-4) Steve must have been feeling the pressure now as he aborted two attempts to climb the top ladder. As all expert "Donkey Kong" players know, once you commit to climbing up the ladder at these levels in the game, you either make it, or you die trying. Fortunately, the third time was a charm and Steve went for it...and made it.

(16-2) Faced with almost all the fireballs on the the top level, Steve's first choice of reaching the top via the upper right ladder was looking less and less possible as the timer kept counting down, so he made a decision to abort and try the left side with the time remaining. He ended up reaching the top with the timer at "300", which was cutting it close.

(17-6) This was perhaps Steve's toughest challenge this game, in my opinion, and also the one where a huge bit of luck definitely came into play. The fireballs were relentlessly chasing him, and blocking off all staircases and the hammers. In total, Steve jumped over two (2) fireballs this stage and not only that, but he was almost singed by a fireball when finally getting the upper level hammer. I have to imagine that Steve breathed a sigh of relief when this stage was completed !!

(18-2) Compared to the previous level's "Conveyor Belt" stage, this one was a relative cakewalk. Steve cruised to completion with ease.

(19-2) Another virtual cakewalk unlike (17-2). Steve was getting close to a "kill screen" but still had over a dozen stages to go, so he resumed concentration and went onto the next "Barrel Stage". After all, anything can still happen !!

(20-2) Another "Do-or-Die" moment of desperation as Steve is forced to get the hammer on the lower level conveyor belt and take out the nearby fireballs in hot pursuit. But he still had a lot more opposition to deal with once he reached the mid-right ledge. He was trapped by one fireball to the left, dancing on the central ledge, and two more were directly above him on the upper level conveyor belt on the right side. I can imagine how Steve must have felt now, with his previous high score approx 929K, and so close to a new personal best. He waited it out, and the two fireballs, one after another, took the central ladder down, and that's when Steve made his move since the timer was running out. He ended up jumping over a mine car to get to the upper right ladder, and then it was straight to the top without further opposition. Definitely not an easy level.

(20-6) Steve passes the 900K mark, and the level, at 1:47, but not without sweating it out a bit more. The upper level hammer was zealously guarded by two fireballs, but patience and care prevailed, and the fireballs were eventually dispatched, and the level completed. Just six (6) more levels to finish and then the "kill screen" would come.

(21-2) In my opinion, the second toughest time Steve had this game, and so close to the conclusion !! Forced by a fireball chasing him closely, he had to jump a mine car on the lower level conveyor belt as part of his means to escape. Although the rest of this stage was relatively easy in comparison, "Donkey Kong" experts well know the dangers of jumping carts on the lower level. This, fellow gamers, was the last of the "Do-or-Die" moments for Steve this game, as it turned out...the rest was all up to skill and patience.

(21-3) Perhaps because his own personal best was 929,700 and the kill screen was approaching was why Steve got a little aggressive here and scored 10,400 this round, finishing that much closer to his personal best. And with three whole stages to go before the "kill screen", every point would count that much more.

(21-4) Steve did not fool around this stage?he knew that he would get in the vicinity of 5,000 points and his high was just a few points beyond that, so the last of the "Elevator Stages" was accomplished smoothly, without incident. Onward to a new personal best if all went well.

(21-5) Starting the stage with less than a thousand points from his previous personal best, and not too far off from a new world record, Steve played this level a bit aggressively, all things considered, scoring close to 10,000 points and setting a new personal best in the process !!

(21-6) The LAST STAGE before the "kill screen" was here, and in general, "Rivet Stages" were never to be taken lightly. Steve knows, however, that at most the "kill screen" will allow for a few hundred points at best, so he makes what points he can and then escapes for a moderate bonus, and well over 946K for a new world record. And although there is still, technically, one screen that remains to be completed, Steve knows that the hard part is over, and all that matters is that he has beaten the game, set a new personal best, AND set a new world record, all at the same time.

     Incredibly, Steve carried his last man for 567,100 points !!

     And now for the extra section with statistics that I had promised earlier...

     STATISTICS SECTION

     Based on the assumption that the same point potential exists for each of levels 5 thru 21, as each has the same 6 stages, this data relates to Steve's performance only during this phase of the game.

Complete Level Data
-> The minimum achieved for a completed level during this phase of the game was 45,400 points and set through Level 17
-> The maximum was 53,700 points adjusting for loss of life, which skews the statistics, and was achieved for Level 6
-> Interestingly, Steve achieved 50K or more for each completed Level 6 through 10, and for the remaining 11 Levels, only once did he break 50K for the completed level, that one being Level 13

Barrel Stage Date
-> The minimum achieved for a completed "Barrel Stage" was 7,800 points, and occurred in Level 16-5
-> The maximum achieved was 11,100 points adjusting for loss of life, and occurred in Level 5-1
-> Overall, Steve's average per "Barrel Stage" was approx 9,300 points, adjusted for loss of life

Conveyor Belt Stage Date
-> The minimum achieved for a completed "Conveyor Belt Stage" was 3,700 points, and occurred in Level 21-2
-> The maximum achieved was 8,400 points adjusting for loss of life, and occurred twice, in Levels 18-2 & 19-2
-> Overall, Steve's average per "Conveyor Belt Stage" was approx 7,700 points, adjusted for loss of life

Elevator Stage Date
-> The minimum achieved for a completed "Elevator Stage" was 5,000 points, and occurred in Level 15-4
-> The maximum achieved was 7,100 points and was achieved without loss of life in Level 7-4
-> Overall, Steve's average per "Elevator Stage" was approx 9,300 points, adjusted for loss of life

Rivet Stage Date
-> The minimum achieved for a completed "Rivet Stage" was 4,200 points, and occurred in Level 12-6. In fact, Steve scored less than 6K only twice from stages 5 and on.
-> The maximum achieved was 8,900 points and was achieved without loss of life in Level 19-6
-> Overall, Steve's average per "Rivet Stage" was approx 8,900 points, adjusted for loss of life

Theoretical Maximum

     Assuming the same point potential was possible for each completed level, and each stage completed within, I was curious just how high would be possible on "Donkey Kong" using Steve's statistics as a guideline, and the starting point of 103,400 points after completing stage 4-5, and adding a token 400 points for the "kill screen". Here I treat every Level 5 thru 21 identically in both difficulty and potential point yield...

Barrel Stages - I took the maximum points without loss of life (11,100) and multiplied by 51 (17 Levels at 3 per Level) and came up with 566,100 points
Conveyor Stages - Taking the maximum without loss of life (8,400) and multiplying by 17 (1 per Level), that comes to 142,800 points
Elevator Stages - Taking the maximum without loss of life (7,100) and multiplying by 17 (1 per Level), that comes to 120,700 points
Rivet Stages - Taking the maximum without loss of life (8,900) and multiplying by 17 (1 per Level), that comes to 151,300 points

     Factoring the above data in, it is theoretically possible to achieve 1084,700 points...at the very least over a million points.

     I was considering the fact that, on the average, the Level totals for 5 through 10 averaged 50K while only once from stages 11-21 did Steve reach the 50K mark. However, for stages 11 through 21...

-> The maximum "Barrel" score was 11,000 (only 100 less than his Level 5 though 10 maximum)
-> The maximum "Conveyor Belt" score was identical at 8,400
-> The maximum "Elevator" score was 6,900 (only 200 less than his Level 5 though 10 maximum)
-> The maximum "Rivet" score was 8,900 (500 points higher than his Level 5 through 10 maximum !!)

     Since each "Barrel Stage" occurs three (3) times, that 100 point loss translates to a 300 point loss per Level, yet when added to the 200 point loss during the "Elevator" stage", this is neatly offset by the 500 point gain during the "Rivet" stage.

     So, just how accurate is my theoretical assessment ? Well, all it guarantees is that at least a million is possible, but doing so requires a LOT to go right, and judging by the many harrowing escapes that Steve faced this game, saying it's theoretically possible on paper and actually doing it is a whole different matter. Suffice it to say, reaching a million is now on Steve's mind.

     ********************************************

FINAL THOUGHTS

     Incredible. That's the only word that comes into my mind. As a gamer, myself, knowing how difficult this game can be, to actually see someone "beat the game" is absolutely incredible. Yes, it's been done before, but like a hole in one when you're watching golf, it doesn't matter that people have done it before...it's always special each and every time.

     As chief referee for the Twin Galaxies Intergalactic Scoreboard, I am very pleased to know that titles that are over 20 years old still have a very loyal following, and that gamers to this day are still trying their very best for personal records, and if they are good enough, world records. And unlike the results of an auction of a well known rare collectible, like a scarce baseball card or famous painting which almost always reach higher and higher auction prices realized year after year, video game world records, much like records in athleticism, become harder and harder to beat with each and every time a new record is set. Take the world record for the fastest 100M dash, or the fastest mile, or the long jump...these records are most definitely not broken year after year, but when they are, it is truly a momentous event.

     Congratulations to Steve Wiebe on behalf of the entire staff of the Twin Galaxies Intergalactic Scorereboard on a job well done !!

Robert T Mruczek
Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee
Star Wars classic arcade champion
rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL)

     *******************************************
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Offline RTM

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Re: Wiebe's 885k
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2020, 06:37:19 pm »
One more thing I noticed...

And, the staff of Twin Galaxies welcomed Steve with open arms, crowning him the new world champion. It should be noted that Steve enjoyed a tremendous amount of publicity from this accomplishment, appearing in many news stories. These news stories did not happen by accident; they were engineered by Walter Day and the Twin Galaxies staff who spent much time promoting Steve Wiebe as the new star of Donkey Kong, Jr. The resulting wave of publicity for Steve Wiebe brought a near-record number of visitors to the Twin Galaxies website making the TG website server crash again and again from the onslaught of attention that Twin Galaxies brought to Steve Wiebe.

If you read the highlighted passage as written by Walter which I pulled from my immediately prior post, it mentions TG promoting Wiebe as the star of DK Jr and NOT of DK as well, as technically he would have been dual-champion at this point. One would believe that Walter at par minimum would have promoted the heck out of that as there had been no dual-champion since the 1980's when Billy pulled that feat off, and continuing thru at least when Szerby turned in a higher score which also mysteriously received zero promotion from Walter when it happened.
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Offline RTM

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Re: Wiebe's 885k
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2020, 06:52:23 pm »
https://www.smh.com.au/technology/donkey-kong-enthusiast-earns-record-setting-score-20030808-gdh8cn.html

In this article written back in July 2003, it mentioned how Steve's effort of 947K was "a month in the making"...almost a year and a half after that alleged 885K score.

It also makes zero mention of him being the earlier DK champion which is highly indicative that he was never formally the DK champion on the TG site back in 2002 with his 885K score.
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Offline RTM

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Re: Wiebe's 885k
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2020, 07:06:42 pm »
This was hard to find, a July 2003 news article regarding Steve's new world record score...

https://www.smh.com.au/technology/donkey-kong-enthusiast-earns-record-setting-score-20030808-gdh8cn.html

No mention of an earlier WR score was included. I am confident that whatever blurb Walter posted at that moment in Feb/02 was, at some point, retracted quickly as no one seems to have any recollection of it outside of the Jan/03 response by Rick Carter.
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Offline Snowflake

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Re: Wiebe's 885k
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2020, 08:36:33 pm »
oh boy i'm not gonna get in a big back and forth but i will try to clarify in case an honest confusion

correct, one cannot forget something which was never true, so perhaps first i should back up to the disagreement there

steve's score was entered. clearly if it wasnt, you could not forgot what did not happen, but if it was entered, and you know at the time it was entered, and you dont know that now it would mean forgot. my goodnes its never polite to say someone's wrong, but saying you forgot i think is a lot more polite way to adress it. i didnt say you lied. i gave you the benefit of the doubt that your erroneous information was due to an honest mistake

now if youd like to discuss whether or not it was a mistake, whether or not steve's score was in fact entered, please check the link i earlier provided you may find it jogs your memory
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Offline colecomeister

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Re: Wiebe's 885k
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2020, 08:56:28 pm »
RTM, I wanted to say at the outset that I may be misinterpreting your arguments, so I wanted to take a moment to clarify my understanding by walking through some of the points your raise.

It strikes me as incongruous to argue that "there is absolutely zero proof...that shows the existence of 885k on the TG scoreboard/database" and then cite the very evidence that was uncovered to confirm the score's existence - Walter's announcement and Rick's post, which was based on his review of the scoreboard in January 2003.

https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/109558-Anyone-get-a-Million-pts.on-Donkey-Kong-&-questions?p=557734#post557734

To highlight the latter point, JJT begins that thread by asking if Mitchell achieved a million point DK game. In response, Rick writes, "Not sure if Billy ever did that or not. If he did it wasn't official cuz viewing the TG records Steve Wiebe has the record at 885,900. I really thought Billy had scored in the 920k range though...but perhaps wasn't verifiable."

Further proof of the score's existence can be found in your thread announcing Steve's 947k achievement.

https://web.archive.org/web/20031203042530/http://www.twingalaxies.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1253

In post #8, mandm785@juno writes "dumb question, but did Steve just do this? [the 947k score] The reason I ask is I looked at the score details, on the online scoreboard, and it says it was submitted on March 2, 02. Was this performance of over a year ago? Just made me curious when I saw this."

You remark in post #12 that due to a system bug with the original program, the dates can be a little screwy. However in actual fact this was the date that Steve's 885k score was confirmed in the database. If you google "Steve Wiebe" "885,900" you'll get a hit where there is a discussion about updating MAME related files. One individual uses the history.dat file associated with a DK distro - the information is clearly dated as it cites Steve Wiebe as the DK record holder with a score of 885,900 achieved on March 2, 2002.

You included a post from Walter ("Billy Mitchell scored 874,300 points at Twin Galaxies on November 7, 1982...") and indicate it makes no mention of Steve's 885k score as potential proof that the 885k score either didn't exist as an official or wasn't entered. The context of Walter's discussion concerns how Mitchell was portrayed in the King of Kong. Walter's argument is that - contrary to the opinion of the movie-going public, I guess - Mitchell was not obsessing over retaining the top DK score, and a pro-Billy TG administration was not running interference on his behalf. With this in mind, Walter's announcement of Steve's 885k score, which is accompanied by an announcement of Mitchell's forthcoming video tape submission of a higher score, would clearly undermine the core of his argument, and would provide a plausible rationale for its exclusion from his historical account.

I do think that the lack of fanfare or promotion around Wiebe's 885k score is noteworthy, but my conclusion is that the lack of promotion wasn't rooted in the score's absence from the leaderboard.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 10:26:53 pm by colecomeister »
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Offline datagod

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Re: Wiebe's 885k
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2020, 06:33:55 am »
I am starting to get the feeling that King of Kong was not a 100% accurate documentary.  :(
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Offline colecomeister

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Re: Wiebe's 885k
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2020, 06:57:21 am »
"Is the movie accurate?" Sanders asked. "I would say yes. Is the movie fair? I would say no." He thinks Mitchell should ride the "King of Kong" infamy to some sort of success.
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