Author Topic: No Hammer March Madness Tournament  (Read 68157 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ChrisP

  • Spring Jumper
  • *
  • Posts: 1763
  • I'm going to jump next to your leg.
    • Donkey Blog
    • Awards
Re: No Hammer March Madness Tournament
« Reply #90 on: April 04, 2013, 10:12:10 pm »
Wow, 269,800 10-2. Mitch crushed everybody!

That was exciting on 6-6 too, down to the last man, about 5K behind, and the top right rivet still intact.

And only one out of four deaths on a rivet board!
http://donkeykongblog.blogspot.com

4 Quarters :-* - 800K Avg. Per Qtr. :o - No Restarts 8) - No Proof :'(

7/26/2013   Coin 35,946   710,800   18-1
7/28/2013   Coin 35,947   903,700   22-1
8/16/2013   Coin 35,948   694,100   17-6
8/17/2013   Coin 35,949   893,100   22-1

3,201,700: the $1 World Record?
Member for 11 Years DKJR Killscreener DK Masters - Rank D IGBY 2016 DKF Team Member IGBY 2015 DKF Team Member IGBY 2014 DKF Team Member Blogger Twitch Streamer DK Killscreener CK Killscreener

Offline marinomitch13

  • Spring Jumper
  • *
  • Posts: 1806
    • How to Play DK
    • Awards
Re: No Hammer March Madness Tournament
« Reply #91 on: April 04, 2013, 10:40:54 pm »
Sorry I wasn't able to go first, Chris. :/ I would have been completely fine doing so. Good match, regardless! Robbie's gonna be pretty tough as well, since I think he has a lot of experience on this variation.

Thanks for letting me play my game a bit late, Jeff. I literally played it as soon as I could. I couldn't believe how many viewers I had within just minute of staring my stream. This DK forum is a very powerful tool for bringing all those extra viewers out of the woodwork!

Again, it was mostly luck. I had 2 or 3 fireball jumps that could have ended my game a lot earlier. I'll have to study my tape a bit, since I know I could do a lot better... I think watching is sometmes a better teacher than playing, and this may just be one of those cases. Glad I was able to break the 7-6 curse for people! #igotyourbacks #togetherwecandefeathim
"Thou hast made us for Thyself, and our heart is restless until it finds its rest in Thee." -Augustine, Confessions.
Member for 11 Years IGBY 2015 DKF Team Member DK Killscreener Blogger Twitch Streamer

Offline ChrisP

  • Spring Jumper
  • *
  • Posts: 1763
  • I'm going to jump next to your leg.
    • Donkey Blog
    • Awards
Re: No Hammer March Madness Tournament
« Reply #92 on: April 04, 2013, 11:51:30 pm »
As I said in the chat, if your DK skills are solid, you're 90% of the way there with no hammer. So it's not too much of a surprise that you were able to get that score.

No-hammer is actually best used as a training exercise for players who AREN'T that great on the rivets. It makes you learn to pay attention to certain things that you wouldn't necessarily pay attention to in regular games.

The problem with hammer-allowed rivets is that you can play on autopilot using a pattern and never learn a lot of things because you're never forced to. But with no-hammer you have to think on your feet the whole time on literally every rivet screen.

In your case though, you pretty much already have down all of those little bits and pieces that players pick up through no-hammer practice.

Having said that, there are some no-hammer specific strategies.

You already get that the whole game pretty much boils down to the fight for the two rivets on the top right. That's the most important thing. The top left ones can be a pain in the butt too though if things develop a certain way, believe me.

Ross mentioned trying a "reverse weave" approach in my chat today (I said some things in response, not knowing that my mic had popped out, so only my wall heard them). Anyway, a couple years ago when I was really focusing on no hammer I tried that, and it's definitely a viable strategy. Depending on which way things break, you can clear a lot of screens that way. It is not unequivocally better than the "up-the-left-side, over to the right" though. You run into problems with it and a lot of VERY EARLY deaths when you get bottom-spawners. I don't know, I might look into it more.

One thing that's important to develop in no-hammer is the right philosophy. You have to accept that no-hammer is extremely luck-intensive, and as a result, it's often better to say "screw it" and do super-risky things that MIGHT kill you now in order to prevent what is likely to develop into an impossible situation that will DEFINITELY kill you later.

Some examples of what I mean:
- Waiting at the top of a ladder even though there are one or more firefoxes directly above (especially important when time is running out)
- Willfully going into situations where the only way to live will be a wall-jump that works out
- "Boxing yourself in" between live firefoxes knowing that you're going to have to jump over one of them
etc.

If you take that approach, you'll have a lot of terrible games where the risks gets you killed early. However, you'll also have games that go further than a super-conservative player will ever be able to go, because without a little gambling, the firefoxes will simply take hold of that top-right area too often and time you out. So if you take risks and are having a good day and happen to get lucky several times in a row, it starts to add up. After all, you only have to get through 21 rivets!
http://donkeykongblog.blogspot.com

4 Quarters :-* - 800K Avg. Per Qtr. :o - No Restarts 8) - No Proof :'(

7/26/2013   Coin 35,946   710,800   18-1
7/28/2013   Coin 35,947   903,700   22-1
8/16/2013   Coin 35,948   694,100   17-6
8/17/2013   Coin 35,949   893,100   22-1

3,201,700: the $1 World Record?
Member for 11 Years DKJR Killscreener DK Masters - Rank D IGBY 2016 DKF Team Member IGBY 2015 DKF Team Member IGBY 2014 DKF Team Member Blogger Twitch Streamer DK Killscreener CK Killscreener

lakeman421

  • Guest
Re: No Hammer March Madness Tournament
« Reply #93 on: April 04, 2013, 11:56:05 pm »
The next match is going to be difficult for me to set up.  I am moving in a few weeks and my roommate cut the internet and cable for this month.  The only internet access I have at this point is in the common area at my apartment complex which I doubt I would be able to set up an successful stream.  If there is a way I can make it happen or another way I could make the matchup work I am open.  Otherwise I will have to forfeit my next match.

Offline marinomitch13

  • Spring Jumper
  • *
  • Posts: 1806
    • How to Play DK
    • Awards
Re: No Hammer March Madness Tournament
« Reply #94 on: April 05, 2013, 12:25:20 am »
Robbie, I just ended my relatively sporadic winter job (and I am transitioning to my more consistent summer job of construction work), so whatever works best for you will likely be fine for me.

Chris, I think you are right on. No-hammer rivets requires that one know as many little tricks as possible to get a better edge. It also forces you to think more quickly on your feet in evaluating probabilities. Now, if only I could do that better on conveyors...  ::)
"Thou hast made us for Thyself, and our heart is restless until it finds its rest in Thee." -Augustine, Confessions.
Member for 11 Years IGBY 2015 DKF Team Member DK Killscreener Blogger Twitch Streamer

Offline VON

  • Elite Member
  • *
  • Posts: 498
    • Awards
Re: No Hammer March Madness Tournament
« Reply #95 on: April 05, 2013, 12:41:39 am »
Ross mentioned trying a "reverse weave" approach in my chat today (I said some things in response, not knowing that my mic had popped out, so only my wall heard them). Anyway, a couple years ago when I was really focusing on no hammer I tried that, and it's definitely a viable strategy. Depending on which way things break, you can clear a lot of screens that way. It is not unequivocally better than the "up-the-left-side, over to the right" though. You run into problems with it and a lot of VERY EARLY deaths when you get bottom-spawners. I don't know, I might look into it more.

Not necessarily a pure reverse weave, as it's so important to clear the top right rivets you'll often just want to shoot straight up the right side and worry about the two bottom rivets later.

As Chris outlined, problems with this strategy can develop early in a board when too many fireballs spawn on the bottom.  Bottom spawners are ideal when running up the left side of the board, but they can impede progress when trying to clear the right side of the board first.  The bonus to come out of these bottom spawning situations is that when you manage to navigate around the offending fireballs and continue up the right side, they're still on the bottom and no longer causing problems. 

The philosophy behind the approach is simple: causing fireballs to spawn on the left will make clearing the top right rivets easier.

Offline syscrusher

  • Elite Member
  • *
  • Posts: 308
    • Awards
Re: No Hammer March Madness Tournament
« Reply #96 on: April 05, 2013, 01:12:47 am »
Hey Nick, I'm available pretty much any time except Friday nights, which is board gaming night. :)  Just let me know what works best for you.
Member for 11 Years DK Masters - Rank C Winner of a community event Former DKJR World Record Holder - MAME IGBY 2016 DKF Team Member IGBY 2015 DKF Team Member IGBY 2014 DKF Team Member 1M on DK, DKJR, and DK3 Difficulty 3 DK3 Repetitive Blue Screener Blogger DK 1M Point Scorer DKJR Killscreener CK Killscreener Former D2K World Record Holder Twitch Streamer DK Killscreener

Fast Eddie

  • Guest
Re: No Hammer March Madness Tournament
« Reply #97 on: April 05, 2013, 06:55:55 am »
Fast Eddie - I am available this coming Monday any time after 6 pm pacific. I can also do it this Sunday if you are available.

whats the earliest you can play on sunday Eric?

 8)

lakeman421

  • Guest
Re: No Hammer March Madness Tournament
« Reply #98 on: April 05, 2013, 08:08:32 am »
Mitch, Mondays and Tuesdays work best for me.  If I can set up a stream at a friends place I will let you know a time.

Offline marinomitch13

  • Spring Jumper
  • *
  • Posts: 1806
    • How to Play DK
    • Awards
Re: No Hammer March Madness Tournament
« Reply #99 on: April 05, 2013, 01:34:07 pm »
Robbie, I'll say that any time after 5pm my time (central time) I would be able to verify your game, since I'll maybe have construction work during the day.
"Thou hast made us for Thyself, and our heart is restless until it finds its rest in Thee." -Augustine, Confessions.
Member for 11 Years IGBY 2015 DKF Team Member DK Killscreener Blogger Twitch Streamer

Offline tessler1134

  • Elite Member
  • *
  • Posts: 295
    • Awards
Re: No Hammer March Madness Tournament
« Reply #100 on: April 05, 2013, 07:03:08 pm »
Fast Eddie - 12 noon my time should be about right and any time after that :)

Eric
Eric Tessler

DK personal best arcade: 966,000 (kill screen, 133 minutes)
DK arcade, KO 2: 900,500 (kill screen, 113 minutes)
DK arcade no hammer: 369,000
Crazy Kong arcade kill screen: 562,000
DK 3 arcade: hard: 1,111,600; easy: 1,640,000
Member for 11 Years IGBY 2016 DKF Team Member DK Killscreener

Offline homerwannabee

  • Spring Jumper
  • *
  • Posts: 2189
    • Awards
Re: No Hammer March Madness Tournament
« Reply #101 on: April 05, 2013, 08:24:53 pm »
Fast Eddie - 12 noon my time should be about right and any time after that :)

Eric

Hey congrats on being a moderator!  Didn't even notice that!
"Perception forged in delusion and refined by pain"

-Ross Benzinger

"It's like we are able to play beautiful music out there, but no one can hear the instruments"

-Leon Shepard
Member for 11 Years Former DK3 World Record Holder DK Masters - Rank D DK Killscreener IGBY 2014 DKF Team Member CK Killscreener Submit a score for every DK3 track Blogger Twitch Streamer Former DKJR World Record Holder - MAME DKJR Killscreener DK3 Repetitive Blue Screener

Fast Eddie

  • Guest
Re: No Hammer March Madness Tournament
« Reply #102 on: April 06, 2013, 05:09:59 am »
cool, 12 noon is good, or 1pm if youd prefer...

 8)

Offline tessler1134

  • Elite Member
  • *
  • Posts: 295
    • Awards
Re: No Hammer March Madness Tournament
« Reply #103 on: April 06, 2013, 07:59:34 am »
Fast eddie - to clarify, you meant this Sunday (tomorrow) or next Sunday? Also let's do 1 pm.
Eric Tessler

DK personal best arcade: 966,000 (kill screen, 133 minutes)
DK arcade, KO 2: 900,500 (kill screen, 113 minutes)
DK arcade no hammer: 369,000
Crazy Kong arcade kill screen: 562,000
DK 3 arcade: hard: 1,111,600; easy: 1,640,000
Member for 11 Years IGBY 2016 DKF Team Member DK Killscreener

Fast Eddie

  • Guest
Re: No Hammer March Madness Tournament
« Reply #104 on: April 06, 2013, 09:23:20 am »
yeah tomorrow if thats ok, at 1pm pacific then...

 8)