Donkey Kong Forum
General Donkey Kong Discussion => General Donkey Kong Discussion => Topic started by: homerwannabee on November 05, 2013, 02:44:48 am
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OK, I saw on Ben Falls stream someone mention that Ritchie now wants all Nintendo cabs to be 4 way. I mean really? Please explain to me how this makes any sense at all? For instance, I can't think of one single reason you would have this rule for Donkey Kong 3. I mean you can't steer anything in that game, and you don't go up any ladders as well. It doesn't effect fame play in any way, shape, or form for that game. In fact the only thing it does is screw you over.
I also have a strong knowledge of Donkey Kong Junior as well. In 3 out of the 4 boards there is no help with an 8 way. Hideout, Springboard, and Chains. The only part of the game where it might help is the Jungle stage, and that's where you are climbing the ropes, and I think you would have the ability to steer some of the blue snappers while climbing. So if they went, and outlawed the 8 way on that I would begrudgingly accept it. By the way, my 1.23 million game was apparently on one of those 8 ways that plays 4 way in disguise joysticks.
I never went through with submitting that game because of the $60 fee they wanted to charge me. Just cost too much, and being in my situation you wouldn't submit either. But after this new rule, there is no way I would submit now. What's the point when they would reject the score anyways? By the way I had no clue that it was an 8 way while playing it.
Mario Bros. I have limited knowledge on but again I don't see anything that can be steered on that game, and I don't think there are any ladders as well.
Popeye may help, I am not too sure. I do know you climb things.
Still again, I don't see the purpose of making this rule mandatory on all Nintendo games. On Donkey Kong 3 it really has no effect on anything. I am pretty sure this is a true statement.
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Why not find out for sure before spreading rumors?
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I belive most Nintendo cab Joysticks are 4 way joysticks.
I played an 8 Way joystick at the NW Pinball Arcade show and got over 200k on Donkey Kong .. Person asked me how did I get that score with a 8 way Joystick
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Why not find out for sure before spreading rumors?
Because maybe it's good to have a discussion about this anyways, even if the rumor is not true?
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I cannot speak for TG, but I could think of several reasons why this makes sense:
1- They want to create uniform rules for all arcade games. If they require a 4-way for DK, then why not require a 4-way for all Nintendo games. In fact, I wonder what Nintendo arcade games are 8-way? There must be some as 8-way restrictor plates exist.
2- The effect of 4-way vs 8-way joysticks is not known for most games. In fact, until recently it wasn't really known for sure on DK. It would be much easier to enforce a 4-way policy, than to go game by game and figure out which games it matters and which games it doesn't matter.
3- There is something to be said about playing the game the way it was originally intended to be played with the original controls. Everyone agrees: controls matter. If you are going to compare your scores with 80's score then you should be playing under the same conditions.
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OK, I saw on Ben Falls stream someone mention that Ritchie now wants all Nintendo cabs to be 4 way. I mean really? Please explain to me how this makes any sense at all? For instance, I can't think of one single reason you would have this rule for Donkey Kong 3. I mean you can't steer anything in that game, and you don't go up any ladders as well. It doesn't effect fame play in any way, shape, or form for that game. In fact the only thing it does is screw you over.
I also have a strong knowledge of Donkey Kong Junior as well. In 3 out of the 4 boards there is no help with an 8 way. Hideout, Springboard, and Chains. The only part of the game where it might help is the Jungle stage, and that's where you are climbing the ropes, and I think you would have the ability to steer some of the blue snappers while climbing. So if they went, and outlawed the 8 way on that I would begrudgingly accept it. By the way, my 1.23 million game was apparently on one of those 8 ways that plays 4 way in disguise joysticks.
I never went through with submitting that game because of the $60 fee they wanted to charge me. Just cost too much, and being in my situation you wouldn't submit either. But after this new rule, there is no way I would submit now. What's the point when they would reject the score anyways? By the way I had no clue that it was an 8 way while playing it.
Mario Bros. I have limited knowledge on but again I don't see anything that can be steered on that game, and I don't think there are any ladders as well.
Popeye may help, I am not too sure. I do know you climb things.
Still again, I don't see the purpose of making this rule mandatory on all Nintendo games. On Donkey Kong 3 it really has no effect on anything. I am pretty sure this is a true statement.
After I left Eric's, Richie called me and asked me why Eric didn't have the right joystick. I explained it to him what happened and even your DK JR game using that joystick. He said that score wouldn't be accepted, because all Nintendo cabs need original Nintendo joysticks for verified scores. So I heard it directly from him. Ken told us George's score would be accepted, because that rule only applies to DK. So there may be grey areas in these rules, but since I don't see anything about it in the rules on TG, then I would say Ken is right in this situation unless I missed something.
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In fact, I wonder what Nintendo arcade games are 8-way?
Non of the classic games (DK series, Popeye and Mario) Mario is 2-way btw. However, the cabs Nintendo used for their V.S series (Super Mario etc) are the same as the classic ones and some of them are 8 way. Maybe a long shot but I guess that some of the v.s cabs are converted back since the demand for DK and other Nintendo classics are much higher than the crappy 8-bit games. And the 8way restrictor remains.
Also, playing DK and j.r with a 8-way is only an disadvantage. At least for semi-pros like myself. Always miss here and then when pressing up and it registers right instead. Or all other inputs.. One millisecond wrong and you are screwed.
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After I left Eric's, Richie called me and asked me why Eric didn't have the right joystick. I explained it to him what happened and even your DK JR game using that joystick. He said that score wouldn't be accepted.
Well, I am super thankful I never paid for that score to be submitted, and so this becomes a moot point anyways. Could you imagine if I had. It would have been the ultimate screw job.
1) I submit it under the old rules where it's free of charge.
2) I submit it under the old rules where 8 way joysticks ARE ALLOWED.
3) They change the rules after the fact, and try to CHARGE ME.
4) They change the rules after the fact, and reject my score (Again, thank goodness I did not pay that $60 submission fee).
If that isn't a screw job, than I don't know what is!
You know I could do a Roy Schildt/Tim Scerby/any other complainer, and howl at the moon about how it's not fair, and spend months, and years complaining about how they screwed me over. Well I am not that way, and here is the truth.
1) I have a much higher score on MAME of 1,308,000. I don't care if most people respect Arcade over MAME. The fact is I don't. The higher score is more important in my book. Also I got the 1,308,000 score printed in the Guinness book of World Records Gamer's Edition. My 1.23 Million score would never get that amount awareness anyways.
2) The current TG Staff may not want to accept my score, but anyone with a bit of common sense knows I got 1,230,000 legitimately.
3) The most important aspect about the 1,230,000 score is the fact I got 1,168,300 on my first man.
4) I have the video up on Youtube of me getting to 1,168,300 on my first man. It's more than just a score, it's a 3 hour and 7 minute video. More people have an appreciation by watching it on Youtube than watching some score on Twin Galaxies.
5) And this is the most important one. I know that I can get a much higher score on Arcade. And so why should I care when I can do it again if I so want.
Here is the thing that the boys at TG need to understand. They need my 1,230,000 score more than I need my 1,230,000 score on their site. So they have rejected it. So fine, all that does is make their Donkey Kong Junior Arcade score list a tad bit less respectable. You see the more high level scores TG gets, the more respect the site gets for being the place for high level respectable scores. If they want to play these funky games, than that's up to them, but in the end it only hurts them more.
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In fact, I wonder what Nintendo arcade games are 8-way?
Non of the classic games (DK series, Popeye and Mario) Mario is 2-way btw. However, the cabs Nintendo used for their V.S series (Super Mario etc) are the same as the classic ones and some of them are 8 way. Maybe a long shot but I guess that some of the v.s cabs are converted back since the demand for DK and other Nintendo classics are much higher than the crappy 8-bit games. And the 8way restrictor remains.
Also, playing DK and j.r with a 8-way is only an disadvantage. At least for semi-pros like myself. Always miss here and then when pressing up and it registers right instead. Or all other inputs.. One millisecond wrong and you are screwed.
Really is this a joke? DK Is a 4 way joystick game in the first place .
Up down left right?
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I dont know why all this is even a discussion. DK JR did NOT come with an 8 way stick, it came with a 4 way. They are tracking DK JR not DK JR modified later to be who know what who knows how.
On a personal level I know it is actually harder on most of these games to use an 8 way over a 4 way. That does NOT mean I think the rules should allow 8 ways. I do think that any mechanically limited 4 way should and would be accepted but I also dont knwo why anyone in the world would not want the much better feeling nintendo stick in their cabinet anyway.
Stop complaining about rules for fuck sake. Just enjoy the games, find a way to follow them, they are not that hard to follow and in almost every case you will be better off for it.
-Ken
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I think that these rules about 4-way joysticks for Nintendo cabs aren't new or rumored, they were already implied into the rules. Richie just brought it up to me when I talked to him on the phone. Obviously, if I knew I was playing on an 8-way I would have not played until it got switched out with the correct 4-way. Having to get that score again sucked balls.
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... especially since you didn't end up even needing to get it the second time!
Or the first, for that matter. ;D
marky_discord
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Really is this a joke? DK Is a 4 way joystick game in the first place .
Up down left right?
DK JR did NOT come with an 8 way stick, it came with a 4 way.
Am I so bad at writing English or do I totally miss something here?
The original question:
In fact, I wonder what Nintendo arcade games are 8-way?"
My answer:
Non of the classic games (DK series, Popeye and Mario)
= All of the above are 4-ways.
Or did you mean something else?
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I don't expect anyone to recognize the game, but Sky Skipper (1981) is an 8-way.
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Yes. Correct. But it never came in those red, blue, orange cabs we all love and care for?.. ;)
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Yes. Correct. But it never came in those red, blue, orange cabs we all love and care for?.. ;)
http://flyers.arcade-museum.com/?page=flyer&db=videodb&id=2572&image=2 (http://flyers.arcade-museum.com/?page=flyer&db=videodb&id=2572&image=2)
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Oh, didnt know. Lucky me for the question mark...Clearly japanese though. Did sky skipper came in these cabs in the US as well? If im not wrong all these cabs in Japan were particle board and in these US it was plywood? Anyway, what I mean with Nintendo classics its Dk series, Mario and Popeye. I guess as earlier that the eightway restrictor could came from, well, sky skipper, v.s back converted or why not JAMMA-fie a DK cab in those days when nobody cared any longer.
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Well, of course by that definition of "classics", no none of those were 8-way. I was really addressing Hank's inquiry about Nintendo games of that era that were 8-way originally. Heli-Fire is another one.
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Well than, requiring all Nintendo cabs to be 4 way now looks especially not well thought out. This rule would make it a requirement to put 4 way joysticks on original 8 way Nintendo games.
So there goes the 'Make all games uniform argument". Here is my point, you are going to screw over people who do not gain ANY advantage on a game with the 4 way rule. Also did you think of the fact that for the past 10 years people have been playing Donkey Kong Junior, Donkey Kong 3, and Popeye games, and probably submitting scores from time to time using 8 ways? If you allowed it then, than why not now?
I know personally if someone were to get a new DK3 record using an 8 way, that I would recognize them as the record holder. If Twin Galaxies were to screw that person over I would probably print out a page that said "Congratulations on the Donkey Kong 3 score, I officially recognize you as the new World Record holder.", and send it to them.
The rule should be simple. If it brings out a clear advantage, than it should not be allowed. If there is no clear advantage, than it should be allowed.
Also who is arguing to have Popeye, DKJr, and DK3 to be 4 way only? People who have spent less than 100 hours time combined on these games. I have spent thousands of hours on at least DKJr, and DK3 combined, and have a much better knowledge about how these games work.
So here is my feelings on the matter of Nitendo Arcade games
Donkey Kong- Yes, it should be a 4 way. Hank Chien made a persuasive argument that it effects game play enough for it to be a rule.
Donkey Kong Junior- Maybe (I am OK with the rule allowing 8 ways, and 4 ways or just 4 ways only). There is a part in the Jungle stage where it could be realistically argued that an 8 way could help in that board. Personally I would like to see a discussion among other million point plus players, and get an idea of where they stand.
Donkey Kong 3-No, I have never seen any kind of advantage to be had with an 8 way on any board. It's a frivolous rule on this game, and you are making people jump through hoops for no good reason.
Popeye- I have no clue. My knowledge of this game is extremely limited. I do know there are steps that Popeye has to climb, and so maybe an 8 way would be an advantage, but I just don't know. I would like to see a player like Ben Falls speak up on the issue.
Sky Skipper- Since it's an 8 way game to begin with, than yeah not allowing an 8 way is completely a moronic move.
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Noone needs to 'speak up on the issue' as noone on here has any bearing on the rules at TG.
The 4 way mechanically limited Nintendo stick in and Nintendo game that is 4 way is a totally reasonable rule and will stay no matter how unhappy or unfair you think it is.
Know the rules and follow them. The rules that are unreasonable like the power supply rule are already dismissed in practice and after the Kong Off will be addressed officially. Rules that are reasonable like having a 4 way stick in a 4 way game will be staying k? K.
-Ken
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Noone needs to 'speak up on the issue' as noone on here has any bearing on the rules at TG.
The 4 way mechanically limited Nintendo stick in and Nintendo game that is 4 way is a totally reasonable rule and will stay no matter how unhappy or unfair you think it is.
Know the rules and follow them. The rules that are unreasonable like the power supply rule are already dismissed in practice and after the Kong Off will be addressed officially. Rules that are reasonable like having a 4 way stick in a 4 way game will be staying k? K.
-Ken
Makes sense as 4-way Nintendo sticks aren't too hard to find. Not sure how easy it is to find the correct power supply.
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Noone needs to 'speak up on the issue' as noone on here has any bearing on the rules at TG.
The 4 way mechanically limited Nintendo stick in and Nintendo game that is 4 way is a totally reasonable rule and will stay no matter how unhappy or unfair you think it is.
Know the rules and follow them. The rules that are unreasonable like the power supply rule are already dismissed in practice and after the Kong Off will be addressed officially. Rules that are reasonable like having a 4 way stick in a 4 way game will be staying k? K.
-Ken
Really requiring a 4 way for an 8 way Sky Skipper is a fair and reasonable rule? Sorry sir, the emperor has no clothes in that regard.
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Really requiring a 4 way for an 8 way Sky Skipper is a fair and reasonable rule? Sorry sir, the emperor has no clothes in that regard.
I don't think it will ever matter. KLOV doesn't even list a Sky Skipper in anyone's collection and then if one was located, it would have to be in the hands of someone who cared about setting a WR on it. TG doesn't even have a listing for arcade scores for it. Let's get the horse first before we start checking the wheel measurements on the cart.
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Really requiring a 4 way for an 8 way Sky Skipper is a fair and reasonable rule? Sorry sir, the emperor has no clothes in that regard.
I don't think it will ever matter. KLOV doesn't even list a Sky Skipper in anyone's collection and then if one was located, it would have to be in the hands of someone who cared about setting a WR on it. TG doesn't even have a listing for arcade scores for it. Let's get the horse first before we start checking the wheel measurements on the cart.
Wow, I had no idea it was that rare! Apparently I am the wearing no clothes with that statement! Still I would like to see DK3 be optional 4 way or 8 way. If you think about it, I should be biased for 4 way only since I am pretty sure all the games I broke a record on were 4 way.
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And it looks like 4 people, according to the VAPS census, own Heli Fire.
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Yep, and listed as four-way Marky_d.. ;)
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Noone needs to 'speak up on the issue' as noone on here has any bearing on the rules at TG.
The 4 way mechanically limited Nintendo stick in and Nintendo game that is 4 way is a totally reasonable rule and will stay no matter how unhappy or unfair you think it is.
Know the rules and follow them. The rules that are unreasonable like the power supply rule are already dismissed in practice and after the Kong Off will be addressed officially. Rules that are reasonable like having a 4 way stick in a 4 way game will be staying k? K.
-Ken
Really requiring a 4 way for an 8 way Sky Skipper is a fair and reasonable rule? Sorry sir, the emperor has no clothes in that regard.
No wonder you cant find a Job, you cant even read...
The 4 way mechanically limited Nintendo stick in and Nintendo game that is 4 way is a totally reasonable rule and will stay no matter how unhappy or unfair you think it is.
If the game is an 8 way then an 8 way stick would be required. DK3 is a 4 way game and as such would require a 4 way stick.
Stop arguing just to argue, its stupid.
-Ken
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Yeah, I was kind of confused why a game that was designed and released with a 4-way stick would be in question.
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Yep, and listed as four-way Marky_d.. ;)
On KLOV. ;)
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Lol! ;D Typo? Haven't tried it in mame yet and don't have time. Must play GTA5. Sorry for OT btw folks.
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Stop arguing just to argue, its stupid.
Oh, there is a reason behind it. I argue about this so that years down the line I can have a clear mindset if someone gets screwed over that I actually said something about it when the rule was instituted. Of course I would probably expect you to respond to that with "Like I said, it's stupid."
Well you know you have done enough to stand up for something when Ken gets mad. He's kind of like the line in the sand that lets you know if you have gone too far.
I said what I needed to say. Peace out my brothers. I'll now go work on my reading skills in order to find a job. 8)
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Wow a lot talk about the TG,s DK joystick rule. Far as I know the Rule was implemented in the recording rules for Donkey Kong alone sometime after 2007 (The King Of Kong).
There no real debate as to what DK cabs where equip with just read the manual and look at the illustrations of the joystick and the part numbers, its all (4-Way).
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I'm sure that any arcade game that was originally 8 way will have 8 way allowed.
A number of arcade games, such as R-Type, for example, are in nintendo dedicated cabinets, and DO have 8 ways. this also includes the vs unisystem and vs dual system. And apparently sky skipper as well.
But any game that had a dedicated cab with a 4 way needs to be played with the 4 way. simple. :)
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Noone needs to 'speak up on the issue' as noone on here has any bearing on the rules at TG.
The 4 way mechanically limited Nintendo stick in and Nintendo game that is 4 way is a totally reasonable rule and will stay no matter how unhappy or unfair you think it is.
Know the rules and follow them. The rules that are unreasonable like the power supply rule are already dismissed in practice and after the Kong Off will be addressed officially. Rules that are reasonable like having a 4 way stick in a 4 way game will be staying k? K.
-Ken
Makes sense as 4-way Nintendo sticks aren't too hard to find. Not sure how easy it is to find the correct power supply.
Well I think they are pretty hard to find. I have been looking for an original and have not found one yet. Mikes Arcade use to sell a reproduction DK 4 way stick. I can't even get my hands on one of those. I could get a used 8 way and change the restrictor over to 4-way but that is still not the same joystick that came stock with Donkey Kong.
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They can be found, they are not cheap though. Last one I sold was $60.
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They can be found, they are not cheap though. Last one I sold was $60.
Yeah, That's about what Mikes Arcade charged. I think the price of the repro 4-way was $65.
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Place a wanted post on KLOV. I got a spare DK joystick on there for around $30 or so.
Noone needs to 'speak up on the issue' as noone on here has any bearing on the rules at TG.
The 4 way mechanically limited Nintendo stick in and Nintendo game that is 4 way is a totally reasonable rule and will stay no matter how unhappy or unfair you think it is.
Know the rules and follow them. The rules that are unreasonable like the power supply rule are already dismissed in practice and after the Kong Off will be addressed officially. Rules that are reasonable like having a 4 way stick in a 4 way game will be staying k? K.
-Ken
Makes sense as 4-way Nintendo sticks aren't too hard to find. Not sure how easy it is to find the correct power supply.
Well I think they are pretty hard to find. I have been looking for an original and have not found one yet. Mikes Arcade use to sell a reproduction DK 4 way stick. I can't even get my hands on one of those. I could get a used 8 way and change the restrictor over to 4-way but that is still not the same joystick that came stock with Donkey Kong.
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Mikes Arcade is out stock on there repo nintendo sticks :(
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Mikes Arcade is out stock on there repo nintendo sticks :(
He has been for quite some time. Apparently he's looking for a new fabricator to get more made.