Donkey Kong Forum
General Donkey Kong Discussion => General Donkey Kong Discussion => Topic started by: Adam_Wilmot on October 16, 2013, 07:00:57 pm
-
dont really know what hes banging on about TBH, but w/e thought I would post for anyone who hasn't seen it or can't read PSP posts on fb
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm often amazed at how many parallels exist between what I used to do in the wrestling business and what I do now in the gaming world. I'm grateful to have learned those lessons, as they are why I get some of the opportunities that I do in what I do today.
I'm going to take some time here to draw one of those parallels as I don't like something I'm seeing within the classic arcade gaming community right now. In particular... this applies to several of the Donkey Kong players. It's not meant to be preachy, though it will probably come off that way. It's not meant to sound upset or angry, though I'm sure some will choose to take it that way. I'm simply stating what I feel.
There were two types of people in the wrestling world. There were those who appreciated the promotions that booked them and were willing to help out those companies. To me, it only made sense to do so. After all, running a live event is damn hard and damn expensive... and I figured if I helped take care of the place giving me the stage to perform it would ensure that I had plenty more chances to do so.
Sometimes that meant that, even on nights when I was in the main event, I'd help set up some chairs or pick up some trash in the dressing room. Sometimes that meant helping promote the company on my own website and by posting flyers. Sometimes that meant wrestling two, even three times in a night to cover no-shows so that the fans would get a full card. Whatever it took.
Others didn't work that way. They'd show up to the show long enough to dress out, go do the match they way they wanted, get paid and leave. They weren't willing to come in at midnight to film vignettes or commercial bumpers for TV. They weren't willing to talk to the press or make the personal appearances. They only wanted the stage and wanted it for their own purposes. Some didn't even care about the size of the crowd... as long as they got their stuff on tape as part of the package they wanted to mail to New York, Atlanta or Philly in hopes of getting a "real booking" as I once heard one call it.
What THAT type failed to realize is that the show wasn't happening because of them... they had opportunities because that live event was giving it to them. If it wasn't them getting the spotlight it would be someone else in their place.
I'm seeing this exact same stuff from some (keyword: SOME) as the Kong-Off 3 event comes closer. Here's an event taking place because of people who are busting their asses to create it. Tens of thousands of dollars are being invested into it. Hell, the media package for it alone is the most professional thing released under the Twin Galaxies banner in at least ten years... and took months to put together.
That's right... last time I checked the Twin Galaxies name was among those bringing this event to life. I also see Richie's name on that... as well as the 1Up.
What I don't see is support for those names from a number of people who are participants in the event and/or participants in this walled off clique that the DK "community" has allowed to be created. I see ill remarks made about the very people who have created the event, are working to promote the event, etc.
Just like the wrestling story above... these DK players (again, not all of them... but a notable number of them) fail to realize that this event isn't happening because of them... this event is FOR THEM. The very people who that "community" is pissing on are the ones who created the very stage they have for themselves here. They just as easily could have put the champions of Pac-Man or Frogger or Q*bert center stage and run an event. Yes, it would have the same support and hype... perhaps even MORE media attention.
But I see no appreciation for that from far too many people. All I see is them believing their own self-created press and letting their egos run amok. I fully believe a large number of those who are being given the stage at that event don't give a damn if it makes money or even breaks even... and that's just plain foolish. All they want is the stage... seemingly convinced that they created it.
They didn't create it. It was created for them.
The least they can do is return the favor and support those who did that for them. It's short-sighted and senseless to bite the hand that feeds... as it can always stop feeding.
Anyone who wishes to speak on this below can do so. If you want to cut and paste it somewhere else, feel free do to so... just ensure you cut and paste the whole damn thing.
I will only speak to/reply to remarks on my feelings to those who call me personally. Number is on my website. No desire to belabor the subject online beyond my remarks here.
-
Let me preface this statement by saying there is no clique, there is no non-appreciation for the Kong Off, and there is no group that was "allowed" to be created.
I can explain exactly what's going on right now. We all know recently about Tim's joining of the DK forum, and to most it was a pleasant surprise. However, it turned sour very fast due to his participation turning into a KoK whine fest, and somehow thinks the DK forum was all in on it or naive "experts" and proceeds to insult anyone who tries to explain themselves. I think most are over that.
But, that's not all. GIV-George's recent statements on facebook can be taken mostly as humor, or taken seriously....and that's what happened. George's post broke the ice for certain people to unleash their hatred towards the DK community.
I'll say it again, there is no clique, if there is I'm not in it. I compete in DK and post here about it, that's what we do. The group was created to not flood CAGDC with DK messages, we were doing them a favor. (I'm still LOL'ing about the being "ALLOWED" to create a DK group - WTF is that about?). Even though the word "SOME" was quoted, "NO ONE" is in a clique. We play DK because it's in the spotlight. If you get #10 in the world on DK, that's something to talk about, if you get #10 on Rally-X, well no one will care right now. As long as the spotlight is shining more will come to compete. The Kong Off helps that. IF you think some are naive enough to think the kong off is not worthwhile for TG/Richie/1UP, you're crazy. They benefit from it. It's a fun event for all that has no reason to have this recent negative tone surrounding it.
I mean really, what is the problem? That's like a solitaire group being mad that Texas Holdem gets all the attention. Geez, let it go.
-
After some reflection I thought maybe it was a combination of the Mame discussion, some not paying for submissions, and the recent events with Tim, and George. Now, I am actually looking forward to Tim's responses because I have posted some ideas in his favor and I hope that helps to bridge a gap. I am not really sure what PSP means here beyond these issues. Both the players and the organizers benefit from the experience, that is what community does. Maybe if PSP was more specific... and offer a case in point...
PS. And not to forget the fact that PSP may still be upset over the whole questioning his KS thing...
-
I attempted to agree with Tim, but I mis-used my word, when I agreed with him I said "Got you" like saying "I understand you and agree" and he took it as "Hey I caught you! you were wrong! Got You!" and immediately attacked me back. Even after I clarified that I was agreeing with him, he ignored it and moved on to someone else. So, good luck with having a constructive conversation with him. Hope he responds better with you.
-
lol, yeah, I can see that. In my lengthy post to his so called "rebuttal", I spent most of my time clarifying that I was not saying what he thought that I was. Maybe my clarifications will help. Though, that has not yet been anyone's experience. I am willing to give him a little more rope and see what he does with it.
-
1) TG benefits from the KOs. If they didn't it wouldn't happen. Whether they break even or not with the KO in-and-of-itself is debatable, but at the very least they use DK because it is their best marketing option.
2) There is no DK 'clique' in the sense of the word that connotes something malicious, elitist, or haughty. DK is just ridiculously popular, and many people are significantly involved in fostering the community's continual growth. Realize, DKF is evidence in itself, if you look at the stats, that DK is maybe 20-30 times more popular than any other CAG right now. That's just the way it is.
3) People can disagree with TG on many things and still be appreciative that they put on the KOs. I haven't seen anyone significantly diss the KOs in any way. It seems like it's expected that people agree 100% or not be involved with TG at all. I assure you, that is not the route that TG would want to take right now! :D
-
if you get #10 on Rally-X, well no one will care right now.
I'll be over in the corner, crying in a fetal position.... :'(
-
if you get #10 on Rally-X, well no one will care right now.
I'll be over in the corner, crying in a fetal position.... :'(
As a test Steve we should start a rallyxforum.com and post a top 10, and start talking about how cool and awesome it to get a score on this hard game and I bet submissions will stry rolling in. Every game game needs a platform :)
-
I attempted to agree with Tim, but I mis-used my word, when I agreed with him I said "Got you" like saying "I understand you and agree" and he took it as "Hey I caught you! you were wrong! Got You!" and immediately attacked me back. Even after I clarified that I was agreeing with him, he ignored it and moved on to someone else. So, good luck with having a constructive conversation with him. Hope he responds better with you.
Sorry about that, the written word and intentions can often be misinterpreted.
-
I attempted to agree with Tim, but I mis-used my word, when I agreed with him I said "Got you" like saying "I understand you and agree" and he took it as "Hey I caught you! you were wrong! Got You!" and immediately attacked me back. Even after I clarified that I was agreeing with him, he ignored it and moved on to someone else. So, good luck with having a constructive conversation with him. Hope he responds better with you.
Sorry about that, the written word and intentions can often be misinterpreted.
No problem, glad that was cleared up. You and I have pretty close personal bests on this game, lets see who can get to 1.1M first. :)
-
Rally X is freaking hard..... Just wanted to point that out....
-
seems like everyones just been looking forward to the KO and enjoying the wild card tournies, fighting for places etc... nothing negative or ungrateful towards TG...
8)
-
I wish PSP cared about being an active part of the community. Instead, all he does is make appearances at select events to promote himself. There's nothing wrong with promoting yourself, but get down off of your high horse and engage in the discussion, man.
-
Psp acts like the world revolves around him. I questioned him about his score to what he achieved and he gave a smart ass comment about it being on his website and that I need to open my eyes and look. It wasn't even on there until a week later. Then I don't even think it showed a real score but him typing it instead of a photo. I was trying to congratulate the guy for a kill screen but he'd rather spit in your face. I don't hate anyone but patrick would rank up their for my distaste for a person. Yes I said Patrick and not Scott.
-
I wish PSP cared about being an active part of the community. Instead, all he does is make appearances at select events to promote himself. There's nothing wrong with promoting yourself, but get down off of your high horse and engage in the discussion, man.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202210665527381&set=a.1221548938157.2034814.1211960570&type=1 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202210665527381&set=a.1221548938157.2034814.1211960570&type=1)
-
Mitch, you know a lot of us are blocked from seeing his facebook content, right? We have been "walled off" from responding. ;D
-
This is the post by PSP that I linked above, for those that can't see it. He has a screen grab of Jason's comment linked to his post, but I didn't reproduce that here:
_____________________________________________________________________________
I've made it a habit of pulling back on a lot of this kinda thing... keeping my eyes on the prize these days as I finally realize that a handful of critics aren't worth the time... and, in fact, are incredibly loyal readers.
However, something about this one, sent to me by a supporter just now, irked me... as it shows a deep rooted misunderstanding of what exactly I do. I am going to respond to it... here.
Mr. Nugent,
"All I do" is show up at "select events to promote myself" is what you say. "Join in the discussion" you say as well.
It is clear to me that you have taken an incredibly selective view of what it is I do.
For the record, most of what I've been working on this year is NOT public knowledge. Admittedly, nobody who only checks my social media posts and/or my website is going to know even 1/5th of the picture these days. Far more stuff cooking up behind the curtain that I cannot reveal just yet.
However... what you very much seem to miss is right in front of you.
These events I go to. The vast majority of them see me hosting panel discussions. The types of topics we discuss are things like the ever-present violent video game debate... sexism in video game culture... preservation and recognition of video game history... etc. With all due respect, these topics have a lot more priority than chatting about a single 32-year-old arcade machine.
Each of these panels contains discussion with the audience. I want to know what THEY think... what THEY feel on these topics. Why? Because I'm lucky enough to have a loud voice in gaming... and I want to use it to speak not only for myself, but to speak for EVERYONE. That way, next time I get a chance to speak on these important topics on another panel or on TV or radio... I can speak for everyone who has talked with me... and yes, I will take the time to chat with anyone and everyone who wants to talk at these events.
I also co-hosted an awards presentation of a video game competition this year. That was entirely about promoting the winners of those tournaments and celebrating them.
I also take the time to converse with everyone I can on here and Twitter most days... and actually consider it part of my job to do so. I also take the time to reply to every e-mail, Facebook inbox, Twitter DM and phone call I get from the gaming communities.
In addition to all that, I still produce written features that promote the people of video game culture as time allows, and continue to put positive contributors to the overall scene center stage as much as I'm able to do so. Over the years I've done almost 200 of these.
Hopefully I also don't have to remind of the 5,000+ hours of time I gave for free when I was at Twin Galaxies from 2008-2011... a great many of those hours spent on pushing for the "live ref only" rule on Donkey Kong to go away as Hank was coming on the horizon.... pushing stories about DK players into the mainstream media at a level nobody else has proven capable of doing yet and even getting a live world record attempt on the game aired on live national television during the biggest annual video gaming event there is.
Is there a professional benefit to most if not all of the above? Yes... and there has to be. I have a family to provide for here. Perhaps you'd find it interesting, however, that at one particular event this summer I was provided an artist's alley table to "promote myself" at... but never made it there, as I used that time to discuss my panel topics with audience members who wanted to talk with me afterwards. I skipped "promoting myself" in order to have a conversation with gamers. This is in stark contrast to what you claim now, isn't it?
Lastly, if you are referring to or suggesting that I'm on my "high horse" because I won't specifically engage in discussions on the DK forums... well, there's honestly a lot bigger things going on in video gaming today than that one game, including the panel topics I noted above.
Besides.. why would I wish to support a community that won't support me? I've already given a great many things to the DK "community" over the past half-decade... only to be basically crapped on by several members on it.
Normal people don't work that way.
No hard feelings... but I suggest before claiming someone is riding a "high horse" you step off of your own long enough to look a little deeper into what you think you know and see.
Best of wishes to you.
______________________________________________________________________
-
And here is a comment on this same status by PSP from about 7 mins ago (Mark ;D ):
______________________________________________
To anyone who claims to be 'walled off from responding'.... I block VERY few people... and when I do, it means you were a pretty big asshole towards me. Phone still works, though... as does that open invite anyone has to use it.
______________________________________________
-
This message is meant for PSP (since I know he is watching this thread):
PSP, I've decided to post this here, rather than on your FB page, because I'm assuming you won't appreciate having added 'drama' there, but I still just have one nagging question. Yeah, maybe Jason jumped the gun and doesn't know everything about what you do, and maybe some people have been 'assholes' to you in different ways, so you've blocked them... I get that, that's your opinion, and that's fine if that's how you see it. I just wanna touch on your relationship with the DK community (which you mentioned near the bottom of your status above) -and not those other individual people in particular.
Here's my simple question: If the DK community, in general, has questioned you (primarily on your DK KS), then why don't you just simply and easily stream for about 1-3 hours and play DK for us? I mean, if you've gotten a KS, it will literally be evident that you have the skill within just the first few 100k of a game, and if you were to get even 500k in one or two attempts (not hard at all for a KS player) then the majority of the community would immediately believe you. I don't think a loss of skill would be an issue at all either. DK is not a pattern game, so in the worst case scenario, just practice for an extra 2 hours or so and it will come back to you. It just seems like you haven't tried very hard to answer people's doubts, when, if you are being truthful on this specific matter, it would be very easy to do so. Do you see where I'm coming from? I don't think it would be unfair to ask you to 'prove' yourself in this way, and I hope you don't see this suggestion as unnecessary and needlessly questioning your character -it just seems like this is the natural and simply thing to ask of someone who has yet to demonstrate their ability in the same way 70 other people on DKF already have (i.e. those that stream their games or submit inps). Again, I hope I don't come across as malicious... I'm just sincerely confused why you don't use this straightforward approach of validating yourself.
-
And here is a comment on this same status by PSP from about 7 mins ago (Mark ;D ):
______________________________________________
To anyone who claims to be 'walled off from responding'.... I block VERY few people... and when I do, it means you were a pretty big asshole towards me. Phone still works, though... as does that open invite anyone has to use it.
______________________________________________
hahahaha! :) Love it?
-
When Patrick starts talking about DK for some reason all I can think about is this
-
I know dk isn't high on his list but would love to see him play. Just to see his skill level and to personally know if his kill screen was legit.
-
Why do you guys make a big deal about his posts and write-ups .. That's why he has removed and blocked a lot of you guys from his FB..
He is mainly a Video Game Reporter now .. I respect that ..
-
I wish PSP cared about being an active part of the community. Instead, all he does is make appearances at select events to promote himself. There's nothing wrong with promoting yourself, but get down off of your high horse and engage in the discussion, man.
I had no idea that my opinion would be broadcasted on Facebook. However, since I decided on a whim to voice my opinion on a public forum, I should have expected no less than a well thought-out response from the person I opined about. Thank you for your response, Scott. I do not know you personally. Indeed, all I know of you I have garnered from your website, your time as a Twin Galaxies referee, your Facebook posts, and the occasional live Q&A on Justin.tv or an interview on Arcade Culture.
Please re-read the beginning of the third sentence of my three sentence post. It reads, "There is nothing wrong with promoting yourself,"
I have no problem with your career path, and the fact of life that you must self-promote to make a living. You have created a public persona and you use it well. I congratulate you on this success. As a member of the old TG forums, I read many of your forum posts and your many responses to what others had posted. I eventually perused your website and became friends with you on Facebook. At first, I found your story and persona to be fascinating and inspiring. I also related to your fascination with Drew Barrymore ;D. But as I continued to read your forum and FB posts, I began to notice some things about you (or, at least, your public image). Your posts typically carried an air of superiority and 'machismo', if you will, which was quite a turn-off to not only me, but others whom you encountered and interacted with on the TG forums. You were quick, in my opinion, to dismiss the opinions and gripes of others. I began to see you as arrogant and combative in online discussion, although I did not engage you in such discussions at that time or any other time. It is possible you didn't then or don't realize now that you come off this way to others.
Anyway, the TG/CAGDC forums are old news, but I still perceive you this way, based on what I've read and heard.
Yes, I am a part of the DK forums, and I enjoy that game. I enjoy having discussions about the game, high scores, related games, top and beginner players, and so on. And I enjoy many other games and interests as well. And yes, by 'engage in the discussion' I meant 'join the forums and stop commenting on the community and instead be a part of it'. 'Get down off your high horse' was a harsh choice of words, but it got your attention and response. In the end, I'm just a guy who plays video games and posts on a forum. My opinion really shouldn't mean a whole lot to you. I wish you continued success, but I stand by my words.
-
Haven't posted much lately. What's up with all the negativity? Lame.
-
you shouldn't care what he says. trust me on that .
-
At no point in that post does PSP specifically identify who is "speaking ill" of TG and/or the Kong Off, where they did so, or what they said. So it's kind of impossible to respond to meaningfully.
Anyway, if there's any chance that any of that was directed at me, here goes:
I covered and live-blogged the shit out of this event last year. I was the only entity, anywhere, to even mention who won it, let alone follow the action in detail. I assure you, and everybody else, I "busted my ass" to do so, and I expected (and got) nothing from it in terms of "opportunities" or compensation or anything but a few "hey, that was cool"s and a few bucks from the ads on the blog. Which is fine, and I'm as happy as a clam about it. You can't expect thanks when you do something that nobody asked you to do. I did it because it was fun. The blog is fun. (The blog will also most likely be abandoned before too long, because it's just a blog, I'm losing interest in it, and who cares?) But if the work I did on the KO2 (and whatever I end up doing on the KO3) doesn't count as "support" I don't know what does.
Nobody takes this shit as seriously as you think they're taking it.
Literally not one person is going to the KO3 to leap in front of TV cameras or in hopes of being spotted by talent scouts from the Professional Donkey Kong League or whatever in god's name you're even talking about with all that. (What could anybody possibly be trying to get out of playing at the Kong Off?) Nobody cares about "having a stage" (if anything, most of us will be AVOIDING the press), and nobody has their "own purposes", except to meet and hang out with our friends and bust each others balls at Donkey Kong.
If "the media" that caught wind of this tournament last year couldn't be bothered to even mention that Jeff Willms won the thing, when the only source who felt that this was important was some piddly little blog that almost nobody reads, what does that tell the rest about their prospects? These media weren't interested in knowing who won the Donkey Kong tournament, because nobody else (except us) is. They were only interested (for about five seconds) in the fact that a Donkey Kong tournament was happening, because that's just quirky enough to merit a little bumper segment at the end of the newscast.
"The stage", if it's anyone's, is TG's. And good for them.
TG/The 1up stands to gain more from this than any individual player, or the players collectively, and I hope they DO gain. But the Kong Off is not a "gift." (John and Eric's wildcard tournaments, THOSE are a gift.) The Kong Off is awesome and I love that it exists, but TG/the bar are business ventures, and this event is an investment in creating foot-traffic, publicity, and opportunities for those ventures. I hope it pays off too. I hope they make a billion dollars.
AND FINALLY, I don't care whether or not you killscreened. I haven't even mentioned this topic in I don't know how long, and have no intention of ever bringing it up again. I'm not interested in talking on the phone about it either (if that is indeed what you wanted me to call you about, and de-friended me the other day for not doing). In the time it takes us to have that pointless conversation, you could get on Twitch, play up to L15 or so, and that would be the end of the questions. Keep blowing hot air, or get on your stream and start jumping some fking barrels.
<3 <3 <3,
- ChrisP
P.S.: At some point during the Kong Off weekend, I will be Attituding in your honor. I promise!
He is mainly a Video Game Reporter
Now you've done it...
-
Funniest part is he is going off about how the DK players want the "stage" or crave attention, but we can't forget this little nugget.
CBS 11 - Patrick Scott Patterson begins his Donkey Kong challenge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad42_vdg3n4#)
-
Yes I said Patrick and not Scott.
I love it.