Donkey Kong Forum
General Donkey Kong Discussion => General Donkey Kong Discussion => Topic started by: Mary McManus on October 15, 2013, 10:04:52 pm
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My rebuttal to Coreys defens of KOK and Steve W.
COREY SAYS: I premise my response with the fact that I have read Chris' post and now Tim's.
COREY SAYS: Tim, I think that Chris' use of quotes from the KOK was only to set up the question of why people would consider Billy Mitchell as the champion, and to show how it is possible that more blame could be placed upon those who made those statements and not as much upon the producers. You seem to be arguing with Chris as if he was using these quotes as proof that your score did not exist, or some similar case. In the light of this fact, I really don't see any of your arguments to really mean anything other than that you disagree with what those people said.
TIM SAYS: So my "factual argument" and proof to this day that I had beat Billys 1982 record first and bested Steve W. on this gaming accomplishment by a few years and that was later used in favor of and wrongfully exploited by Steve W. in KOK means nothing? Your going to ignore this crucial fact and TGs own documentation? Your going to Ignore the fact that KOK contains inaccurate info reguarding the historical timeline of DK scoring and still defend KOK as a "documentary"?
COREY SAYS" This is fact that is NOT debate able and it means nothing to you So it would be your view that they were lying, misinformed, or simply ignorant of the fact of your TG score. Fair enough. I think that these may have said what they did because they knew that Billy had or would beat the score again.
TIM SAYS: Fact still remains the same from the start. I was the first to beat Billys 1982 score. Period, Paragraph! If Billy had designs on beating it again or not is not the point. The point is "MY" accomplishment and subject material was stolen from me and given to Steve W. to exploit and use as the starting basis for KOK in which I was not not rightfully compensated for like the others.
TIM SAYS: You consider this fair?
COREY SAYS: Consider the fact that Billy beat the score live on May 7th 2004 before Steve's Funspot achievement and a lot of those quotes were from people at Funspot if I remember correctly, I could be mistaken. Do we know the actual time frame from start to finish when the film was actually being filmed?
TIM SAYS : O.K., if this is true and not just another premeditated TG sponsored Billy Mitchell covert screw job, Then why does KOK clearly indicate Steve W. is trying to beat Billys 1982 record ( a score I already beat a few years prior and to this day can prove it with the actual video I sent in to TG for varification with time date 8/16/2000 and witness at the end of said video) and not the 2004 score Billy supposedly set?
COREY SAYS: The TG scoreboard is only as accurate as it can verify scores. One thing that has always been true, is that the TG scoreboard is not that accurate. (Forgive me TG enthusiasts) There are scores that are not submitted or accomplished before people even knew about TG.
TIM SAYS: This is just too bad for those you mentioned isn't? So you are again stating or implying someone could just simply "say" they beat a score based on hearsay and conjecture from years ago and TG should discredit a recently documented and verified "official" score of someone who did submit a score through proper channels?
TIM SAYS: This seems unethical and unfair as far as gaming history and score keeping goes.
COREY SAYS: From the sounds of it, Steve, was putting up 900+ games and yet didn't know what the high score was on TG. The fact that Billy continued to up his score, and the fact that Steve technically had unofficial records and continued to up his score makes this a real rivalry between him and Billy.
TIM SAYS: If Billy had indeed upped his score since 1982 ( probably just another prefabricated TG screw job anyway....Rick Fothergill can vouch for this) then why doesn't KOK focus on Steve's quest to beat Billys 2004 score instead of clearly illustrating Steve setting out to beat Billys 1982 score which I had already beat a few years before Steve ever submited anything to TG? This is considered fair?
COREY SAYS: If you saw that your TG score was taken down on May 7th 2004, and started submitting new scores and having them verified, I am sure that you would have played a role in the over all competition. And you are right, the interest grew when two players went back and forth like that. That was the interesting part. May I propose that since you did not attempt or accomplish this is the reason that history unfolded the way that you did.
TIM SAYS: What I accomplished was being the first in gaming history to beat Billys long standing 1982 record. This was NEVER disputed and still varifiable to this day with TGs own articals and media press from 2000 and an actual copy from the video played on 8/16/2000 and always was.
TIM SAYS: So why does KOK clearly state Steve Wiebie was the first to beat Billys 1982 score? Why did Steve take credit for, exploit and profit using subject material that I was documented doing first?
TIM SAYS: Please do not distract with another strawman argument and just answer the question I just asked.
COREY SAYS: Do you ever suppose that it was your ignorance, inaction, or inability in this regard that plays a role in this story as well? Your score of 1,034,700 on 2/24/2010 is many years too late. When did you find out that your score was beaten in 2004? Did you make attempts to get the record back? And most importantly, were you successful? I think that it would not be fair for you to compare yourself to Steve Wiebe in this regard.
TIM SAYS: As far as I knew, TG was an honest and reputable score keeping orginization at the time so there was no need for me to fear my accomplishment being stolen for the sake of someone elses financial gain (or so I thought) . I was still playing on and off and scored a 932,xxx kill screen in the fall of 2005 (started using bottom hammer) but not on video.
TIM SAYS: Knowing that I was documented and verified as the "first" to break Billys 1982 DK record was good enough for me.
COREY SAYS: The Steve vs. Billy era was exciting for gamers and the growing interest exploded because of it. You were successful in beating Billy's score back in the early 80's, but you were not successful in going toe to toe with Billy in the same manner as Steve. I wonder when Billy's 1,047,200 verified on June 4th 2005 was actually accomplished.
TIM SAYS: I was not as successful as Steve mainly because I was kept in the dark and did not have movie connections to magicaly open doors and cover up other scores for me and pay for travel expenses like Steve did.
TIM SAYS: No matter what I scored official during this time frame most likely would not have made any difference as Steve brought his movie connections and they had thier own agenda that never would include me no matter what I scored.
TIM SAYS:The cover up of my 2000 score beating Billys 1982 record should give clear indication of this. Besides, at the time me being the first documented score to beat Billys 1982 record was satisfaction enough.
COREY SAYS: Also, you compare TG with a patenting office. Well, look at it this way for a moment. Let's say that we know historically that Grey (was it) had invented the telephone first, but Gram got it officiated first. Then we would offer the accomplishment to both but to Grey first.
TIM SAYS: You are absolutely wrong here. Gram Bell beat Grey to the patent office first and was awarded the patent.....first. Grey was NOT. Plain and simple. I suggest you research your history.
TIM SAYS: Both these men DID NOT profit from the same accomplishment, only BELL who beat Grey to the patent office first profited from the patent. Guess what, Steve W. is Elijah Grey! So why did Steve profit off an accomplishment I historically did first? I also don't recall Steve getting any DK score officiated before I did. Again check your history.
COREY SAYS: I don't see any reason to doubt Steve's earlier scores, because it takes time to learn the game and at the point of KOK he was already improving his PB rather quickly. Also take a good look at the DK HSL, and compare that to TG. There are a lot of good scores that are not on TG, like Dean's 1.2M for instance. (Of course he already holds the record.) I think that the TG scoreboard has some meaning to it, but it is not a 100% representation of reality.
TIM SAYS : So you say there's no reason to doubt Steves "UNCONFIRMED" and "IMPOSSIBLE TO VERIFY" previously UNSUBMITTED SCORES, yet at the same time there "WAS" reason to discredit, disenfranchise "MY" documented and verified score a few years prior in favor of Steves!!!???!!! Do you realize what you are saying? If this is not considered unfair in the history of arcade score keeping, than I don't know what is! No wonder Guinness dropped TG like it was a documented verified score! ( a little pun here :)
Again, nice try but in light of my facts and documentation, you failed miserably :(
NEXT!
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Stop fucking up the quote feature. It makes it more difficult to read your nonsense.
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So the best defense a big time "DK expert" such as yourself can offer as a defense is a critique of the quote feature can calling documented facts "nonsense"
Truly the last defense of a weak argument. Ever wonder why any gaming old timers are NOT backing the arguments against me? Because they KNOW the real story.
You sit there and tell me I'm nonsense, your pathetic!
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It's not defense just fix it because it's really annoying. And yes you do have correct facts, but you are nonsense. You have come across as a whiney little brat who craves attention because he didnt get his way. You calling me pathetic just tops it all. You haven't gotten over something that happened almost a decade ago. Now that is truly pathetic.
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Tim, if we are going to discuss your response here, I would ask that you restrain yourself just a little bit. We don't need the forum filled with name calling, and insults. This goes for all of us. If we are going to discuss this, then lets discuss this, but not like that. People will give to you what you have given them. In my case, I will deflect your comments, and offer you a line by line discussion of your post here. I think you will appreciate. We need to keep it civil, ok? Please keep in mind you need to try and not displace your anger about what happened to you on any of us. People in the forum will respond to you in different ways. The forum is the place to have conversations in a well-mannered way, not to offer caricatures and ad hominem argumentation. Ad Hominem means that you are attacking the person instead of confronting a position with plain reason. An argument is based upon its own merit, and is by no means discredited by the character of who says it.
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I've never talked to you personally Tim, but you really need to make a blog or just stop making negative threads. And to be honest what is the point of all these threads if you don't mind me asking?
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At first, I enjoyed knowing Tim's point of view about KoK and the impact of him. Like I did enjoy to know Roy Schildt's opinion on KoK and the impact on him.
However, look what happened with Roy Schildt. And I don't think it's a good thing to go on the same path as him.
I know this grew out of proportion, but maybe Tim should do like Billy Mitchell, and move on. Because let's be honest, if there's one person that KoK affected, it's obviously Billy Mitchell (and behind his character, he obviously cares about the bad reputation he got from KoK). But Billy decided to move on and stay on the positive side, and maybe you could do the same, Tim.
Since people here have strong opinions, the debate will never end.
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It's not defense just fix it because it's really annoying. And yes you do have correct facts, but you are nonsense. You have come across as a whiney little brat who craves attention because he didnt get his way. You calling me pathetic just tops it all. You haven't gotten over something that happened almost a decade ago. Now that is truly pathetic.
Stop and think about what you just said. "Yes you (meaning myself) do have correct facts, but you (meaning myself) are nonsense." You grossly contradicted yourself with the naive imbecility of your statement.
This is an oxymoron.
In light of the facts and documentation I provided to your contrary, I believe I have earned the right to protest KOK and TG ... or... "whine" ...as you say for intentionally cheating me out of my own subject material essentially robbing me of a 5 figure paycheck. Who wouldn't speak out or "be a crybaby" or "whine" as you so put it under these circumstances?
If it was 1 day ago or 10 years ago still doesn't change the facts.
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Who wouldn't speak out or "be a crybaby" or "whine" as you so put it under these circumstances?
Almost everyone else in the film. Thats who...
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Tim Got screw for sure in that movie, its there right the producer’s and director I would think have the main influence on the story line and being a so call Documentary, the movie can change at anytime in the direction of where it is going and after in Editing. But still I wonder why Walter, Bill and whoever ells were invalid with TG at that time didn’t see what was going on? According to Dwayne they where “hood wink†and never really know what was happening as to what the movie was truly about and this possible, but I’m still wondering about Walter, Bill and Steve the main beneficiary (got Pay) sworn to silence contractually apond payment and if they will ever talk about the movie and its story… what’s done is done, I guess its all over but the crying now :(
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Stop and think about what you just said. "Yes you (meaning myself) do have correct facts, but you (meaning myself) are nonsense." You grossly contradicted yourself with the naive imbecility of your statement.
This is an oxymoron.
You obviously didn't get what I was saying. You do have the correct facts about KOK. But you as a person and the way you act is nonsense. There is a right way and a wrong way to go about things, and you have picked all the wrong ways.
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Premise: Tim, I have not offered any defense for the KOK or Steve Wiebe in the sense that I support deliberate inaccuracies. The film was couched in the theme that no one had beaten the 1982 score, and that Steve was the first to accomplish this. This is in fact your story. At least this aspect of it. And I am well aware of your accomplishment on the TG scoreboard. I think that if the film was styled after Billy’s 933K game that it would have been more accurate and serve as a better representation of reality. In fact, I believe that all those players’ quotations about Billy’s score during and after the Funspot tournament was concerning Billy’s 933K game.
Corey’s Original post: I premise my response with the fact that I have read Chris' post and now Tim's. Tim, I think that Chris' use of quotes from the KOK was only to set up the question of why people would consider Billy Mitchell as the champion, and to show how it is possible that more blame could be placed upon those who made those statements and not as much upon the producers. You seem to be arguing with Chris as if he was using these quotes as proof that your score did not exist, or some similar case. In the light of this fact, I really don't see any of your arguments to really mean anything other than that you disagree with what those people said.
Tim’s Reply: So my "factual argument" and proof to this day that I had beat Billys 1982 record first and bested Steve W. on this gaming accomplishment by a few years and that was later used in favor of and wrongfully exploited by Steve W. in KOK means nothing?
Your going to ignore this crucial fact and TGs own documentation?
Your going to Ignore the fact that KOK contains inaccurate info reguarding the historical timeline of DK scoring and still defend KOK as a "documentary"?
Corey’s Clarification: In this section, I only suggest what I think is Chris’ intent with his quotations. I do not deny nor confirm his position. Nor do I deny the fact of your officially accepted score in 2000. After further reflection, I have come to the opinion that the players’ comments about Billy’s score and him being the champion at the funspot tournament was referring to the 933K game but are put in a context to look like it was referring to Billy’s 874,300 game through editing.
Corey’s Response:
1) I agree that your official TG score was the first to officially beat Billy Mitchell’s score of 874,300 verified on August 13th 1982. However, it is my personal opinion that you were not the first person to actually beat Billy’s score. I must emphasize that I do not think that this opinion or Steve’s testimony concerning his own scores justify omitting your name from the KOK. It would be interesting to find out when Steve purchased his machine off ebay and in relation to his 947,200 game on June 30, 2003.
2) I am not ignoring that you have the first officially recognized score… and that it was verified by TG and to this day remains upon the score list.
3) There is one implicit reference in the KOK that did not need to be added which shows your score on the TG site. I never stated that KOK was a documentary in any strict sense, nor have I denied that it was in any modified form.
4) None of these questions actually address my attempt to clarify Chris’ intent with his quotations. If there is anything in my original post at this point you would like to discuss then please reference my text and I will be more than happy to go into further detail or offer any clarifications that you might have.
Corey’s Original post: So it would be your view that they were lying, misinformed, or simply ignorant of the fact of your TG score. Fair enough. I think that these may have said what they did because they knew that Billy had or would beat the score again.
Tim’s Reply: Fact still remains the same from the start. I was the first to beat Billys 1982 score. Period, Paragraph! If Billy had designs on beating it again or not is not the point. The point is "MY" accomplishment and subject material was stolen from me and given to Steve W. to exploit and use as the starting basis for KOK in which I was not not rightfully compensated for like the others. You consider this fair?
Corey’s Clarification: In this section, I propose what I think your position is. However, after further reflection, I think that a lot of the comments were in the context of the 933K game. Therefore, I could add another option here… edited to appear that they said something that they did not.
Corey’s Response: Tim, you were the first person to officially beat Billy’s 1982 score, and the scoreboard reflects this today and in the KOK film. I wonder when Billy had produced that video tape. That would be at least interesting to know if anyone has a clue. Billy, in the film speaks of it as “a score that people have wanted to see for a long time.†I wonder what Billy meant by this. Your accomplishment and subject material was styled as if it was Steve’s and it was exploited as the starting basis for KOK. I would not have wanted this to be done to me, which is why in earlier conversations with you I made it clear that I understand why you are upset, but that now you need to try and forgive and move on so that bitterness does not run your life.
Corey’s Original post: Consider the fact that Billy beat the score live on May 7th 2004 before Steve's Funspot achievement and a lot of those quotes were from people at Funspot if I remember correctly, I could be mistaken. Do we know the actual time frame from start to finish when the film was actually being filmed?
Tim’s Reply: O.K., if this is true and not just another premeditated TG sponsored Billy Mitchell covert screw job, Then why does KOK clearly indicate Steve W. is trying to beat Billys 1982 record ( a score I already beat a few years prior and to this day can prove it with the actual video I sent in to TG for varification with time date 8/16/2000 and witness at the end of said video) and not the 2004 score Billy supposedly set?
Corey’s Response: In general, and in certain parts of the KOK, it is clear that the film-makers wanted their viewers to believe that Steve was going after Billy’s 1982. During Steve’s big live game at funspot, he was at around 870K, and Brian was not too concerned about the score, but the killscreen. Steve was obviously going after the 933K score, and I think that all of the comments from players at and during, and after this tournament they were referring to the 933K score, but when placed in the context of the entire film reframe their comments as if they were referring to the 1982 score. Other quotations outside of the Funspot context can also be interpreted that way, but at some point it is difficult to explain the comments of others. If there are any specific comments in the film that you want to quote and discuss, I would be more than willing to analysis it.
Billy Mitchell: "The people who could get, besides myself, that have been seen getting to the end of Donkey Kong? Gee, now that I think about it, I don't think anybody has."
The “seen†aspect is probably referring to a live score, particularly since his 1982 game and the 933K game were live, and the only other score at that time was yours and it was a tape. The “no one has†probably refers to those who have seen someone other than Billy getting to the end.
Roy Shildt:
"That was the last world record that Bill ever had. That was the last one to go. He had five world records in 1985, he had the Donkey Kong, and then Steve Wiebe took it away."
This could also be referring to the 933K game. The “he had the Donkey Kong†only shows that Billy had it back in 1985, and he had the title at the time that Steve officially beat it with his live killscreen at Funspot.
Brian Kuh:
"Um, for years and years, it was believed that Billy's record of 874,000 in 1982 was really the highest score anyone would ever get. And in fact, some of us have played this game every day or every week or every month since then, and no one's gotten close to that."
Brian says that “it was believed†in the past tense, and the “no one’s gotten close†refers to the “some of us†he is referring to, and not just anyone without qualification.
Greg Bond:
"Steve deserves a lot of credit for that because he also... He also broke the record on Donkey Kong Jr. So he--he took two--He took two of Billy's titles, like, right away from him. And l don't mean to sound, you know, crude or anything. But he did. He did. Officially, he did."
This statement was made by Greg shortly after Steve beat Billy’s 933K at funsport.
Corey’s Original post: The TG scoreboard is only as accurate as it can verify scores. One thing that has always been true, is that the TG scoreboard is not that accurate. (Forgive me TG enthusiasts) There are scores that are not submitted or accomplished before people even knew about TG.
Tim’s Reply: This is just too bad for those you mentioned isn't? So you are again stating or implying someone could just simply "say" they beat a score based on hearsay and conjecture from years ago and TG should discredit a recently documented and verified "official" score of someone who did submit a score through proper channels? This seems unethical and unfair as far as gaming history and score keeping goes.
Corey’s Response: I am not saying this at all. I don’t think that TG should discredit any documented game, nor do I think that TG should accept a score without documentation. What I am saying is that the TG scoreboard only reflects reality in as much as players actually record and submit their scores for verification. There are a lot of scores which I have verified and are on the HSL that are not on TG. What the DK HSL demonstrates is that there are a lot of good scores that submitted to TG. So it can be the case that while one person has the officially recognized world record according to TG, another person can have the actual world record which was not recorded or is on a tape sitting in someone’s closet which was never submitted to TG for various reasons. I personally have no reason to doubt that Steve’s earlier scores were probably up in the 900K’s range and that it is very possible that this occurred prior to your official TG score. That is a personal opinion of mine at present but this should not at all upset you or anyone else since I do not deny your documented TG score. I agree that you have the first documented and TG verified score to beat Billy Mitchell’s 1982 score.
Corey’s Original post: From the sounds of it, Steve, was putting up 900+ games and yet didn't know what the high score was on TG. The fact that Billy continued to up his score, and the fact that Steve technically had unofficial records and continued to up his score makes this a real rivalry between him and Billy.
Tim’s Replay: If Billy had indeed upped his score since 1982 ( probably just another prefabricated TG screw job anyway....Rick Fothergill can vouch for this) then why doesn't KOK focus on Steve's quest to beat Billys 2004 score instead of clearly illustrating Steve setting out to beat Billys 1982 score which I had already beat a few years before Steve ever submited anything to TG? This is considered fair?
Corey’s Response: I see two questions of interest here. 1) Did Billy improve his score on Donkey Kong before his 2004 live score? I have no doubt that he did, in fact this still raises the question of how long he hung onto that video tape. It does seem interesting to me that Billy only did that score live after Steve’s 947,200 rejection on June 30, 2003. The forum has discussed Billy’s scores before but that is another conversation altogether. :D 2) The KOK did not focus on Steve beating Billy’s 2004 score because it wanted its viewers to think that Steve was the first to beat Billy’s 1982 score with the score he did at Funspot. Which, of course, I have already stated, is not an accurate portrayal of reality. No one denies this that I know of.
Corey’s Original post: If you saw that your TG score was taken down on May 7th 2004, and started submitting new scores and having them verified, I am sure that you would have played a role in the over all competition. And you are right, the interest grew when two players went back and forth like that. That was the interesting part. May I propose that since you did not attempt or accomplish this is the reason that history unfolded the way that you did.
Tim’s Reply: What I accomplished was being the first in gaming history to beat Billys long standing 1982 record. This was NEVER disputed and still varifiable to this day with TGs own articals and media press from 2000 and an actual copy from the video played on 8/16/2000 and always was. So why does KOK clearly state Steve Wiebie was the first to beat Billys 1982 score? Why did Steve take credit for, exploit and profit using subject material that I was documented doing first? Please do not distract with another strawman argument and just answer the question I just asked.
Corey’s Clarification: My intent in this section was to ask when you first became aware of Billy’s live score on May 7th, 2004, and what plan of action did you come up with to win the title back for yourself?
Corey’s Response: True, your accomplishment was the first TG verified score to beat Billy’s long standing 1982 record. I agree that since it was on the site and remains to this day is a good indication that it was disputed in any way as to invalidate your score. The KOK states that Steve Wiebe was the first to beat Billy’s because that is how they wanted to make the film. I can not speak for Steve Wiebe concerning his knowledge and intent concerning the film. No attempt was made to formulate an argument. I was asking some questions about the timeline, your response, and how that may or may not have influenced the situation. I hope I gave you a direct response to your question.
Corey’s Original post: Do you ever suppose that it was your ignorance, inaction, or inability in this regard that plays a role in this story as well? Your score of 1,034,700 on 2/24/2010 is many years too late. When did you find out that your score was beaten in 2004? Did you make attempts to get the record back? And most importantly, were you successful? I think that it would not be fair for you to compare yourself to Steve Wiebe in this regard.
Tim’s Reply: As far as I knew, TG was an honest and reputable score keeping organization at the time so there was no need for me to fear my accomplishment being stolen for the sake of someone else’s financial gain (or so I thought) . I was still playing on and off and scored a 932,xxx kill screen in the fall of 2005 (started using bottom hammer) but not on video. Knowing that I was documented and verified as the "first" to break Billys 1982 DK record was good enough for me.
Corey’s Response: Thanks for your response. So I understand you saying that your goal was to beat Billy’s 1982 score and that you did not have any intentions to get the title back again? I trust that you got 932K in 2005, that seems to be consistent with your progression. I see exactly what you mean. If you had the first documented TG verified score to beat Billy Mitchell’s 1982 game, then why have any fears that it would be exploited. Makes sense. And this is why it was so hurtful to you. I understand and acknowledge this.
Corey’s Original post: The Steve vs. Billy era was exciting for gamers and the growing interest exploded because of it. You were successful in beating Billy's score back in the early 80's, but you were not successful in going toe to toe with Billy in the same manner as Steve. I wonder when Billy's 1,047,200 verified on June 4th 2005 was actually accomplished.
Tim’s Reply: I was not as successful as Steve mainly because I was kept in the dark and did not have movie connections to magically open doors and cover up other scores for me and pay for travel expenses like Steve did. No matter what I scored official during this time frame most likely would not have made any difference as Steve brought his movie connections and they had their own agenda that never would include me no matter what I scored. The cover up of my 2000 score beating Billys 1982 record should give clear indication of this. Besides, at the time me being the first documented score to beat Billys 1982 record was satisfaction enough.
Corey’s Response: Dean mentioned this as well. Influence does go a long way. I am actually surprised to hear that no matter what you may have scored at that time would not have made any difference. This is unfortunate. I was under the impression that if you had started submitting world record scores, if you were even interested in doing so, that the KOK would have been influenced by this fact. I suppose I could be wrong about that, which is another reason why I raised the question.
Corey’s Original post: Also, you compare TG with a patenting office. Well, look at it this way for a moment. Let's say that we know historically that Grey (was it) had invented the telephone first, but Gram got it officiated first. Then we would offer the accomplishment to both but to Grey first.
Tim’s Reply: You are absolutely wrong here. Gram Bell beat Grey to the patent office first and was awarded the patent.....first. Grey was NOT. Plain and simple. I suggest you research your history. Both these men DID NOT profit from the same accomplishment, only BELL who beat Grey to the patent office first profited from the patent. Guess what, Steve W. is Elijah Grey! So why did Steve profit off an accomplishment I historically did first? I also don't recall Steve getting any DK score officiated before I did. Again check your history.
Corey’s Response: I agree with you that Gram Bell beat Grey to the patent office and was awarded the patent… first. I did not state that Grey had done this. My “let’s say†statement raised a hypothetical situation. What if Grey had completed his invention first, but Gram got to the patent office first. This would mean that the official invention is offered to Gram, where as the actual invention is offered to Grey, historically. This is all hypothetical just to show the distinction between ‘official’ and ‘actual’. That was the only idea that I wished to convey. You are right, Steve had not gone through official channels, and did not have any of his self-proclaimed scores officially verified by TG, concerning those 900K games. However, I am still of the opinion that unofficially and actually Steve may have been the first to beat Billy’s 1982 game. I accept that you have the very first officially verified TG score to beat Billy Mitchell. Do we know in what year Steve searched for “Donkey Kong World Record†and “saw that it was Billy’s game�
Corey’s Original post: I don't see any reason to doubt Steve's earlier scores, because it takes time to learn the game and at the point of KOK he was already improving his PB rather quickly. Also take a good look at the DK HSL, and compare that to TG. There are a lot of good scores that are not on TG, like Dean's 1.2M for instance. (Of course he already holds the record.) I think that the TG scoreboard has some meaning to it, but it is not a 100% representation of reality.
Tim’s Reply: So you say there's no reason to doubt Steves "UNCONFIRMED" and "IMPOSSIBLE TO VERIFY" previously UNSUBMITTED SCORES, yet at the same time there "WAS" reason to discredit, disenfranchise "MY" documented and verified score a few years prior in favor of Steves!!!???!!! Do you realize what you are saying? If this is not considered unfair in the history of arcade score keeping, than I don't know what is! No wonder Guinness dropped TG like it was a documented verified score! ( a little pun here Again, nice try but in light of my facts and documentation, you failed miserably NEXT!
Corey’s Response: No. I am not saying that at all. I have never offered any reasons to discredit your documented and verified score prior to Steve’s Funspot verified game. Could you show me how I have failed? Other than my opinion concerning Steve’s earlier games, what have I said that you disagree with? I would suggest avoiding the attitude of triumphalism.
P.S. The edit was just putting a space between two sections that I missed during editing in Word.
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Here are two more quotes we can examine. I may find more too but this is what I know off hand.
Walter: “No one across that big length of time will ever be able to beat his world record.â€
With more context he could be saying something different here. “big length of time†is contextual because of the use of the distant demonstrative “thatâ€, which means that he has already shared what the time frame was, which we don't know. It is possible that he is referring to the time between Billy’s 1982 game until recently but not 'to this day'. And he could be referring to something that was once thought, and not something that is still maintained. There is enough possibilities, enough potential contexts for this to be understood in some other way other than a blatant lie.
Steve: “…so I looked at Twin Galaxies. I just—well, I typed in Donkey Kong world record, and some spreadsheet came up, and I saw what the score was. It was held by Billy Mitchell, and it was, like, 874,000….â€
This was said when Steve was laid off from work. Does anyone know the time frame here? If he checked it before Tim’s verified score, then the quote would make sense. But if not, then Steve would have had to lie at this point. Unless someone has any other proposals.
Are there any other quotes in the movie that you can think of that have not already been mentioned in this post and my previous long one?
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Tim, maybe we should rename this thread to An Analysis of The King of Kong or something like that. It may be a little more suited to our actual discussion.
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I have found some good information at this site: http://wayback.archive.org/web/20110717120045/http://forums.twingalaxies.com/viewforum.php?f=86 (http://wayback.archive.org/web/20110717120045/http://forums.twingalaxies.com/viewforum.php?f=86)
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Another page: http://wayback.archive.org/web/20071218085143/http://www.billyvssteve.com/faq/ (http://wayback.archive.org/web/20071218085143/http://www.billyvssteve.com/faq/)
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Walter speaks on The Significance of Tim Sczerby's DK Record: http://wayback.archive.org/web/20120403082914/http://forums.twingalaxies.com/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=10574&sid=58660450d6b7649aa067bf24e97e7c24 (http://wayback.archive.org/web/20120403082914/http://forums.twingalaxies.com/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=10574&sid=58660450d6b7649aa067bf24e97e7c24)
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Interestingly, Chris, in view of your history here: http://donkeykongblog.blogspot.com/2011/12/donkey-kong-world-record-history.html (http://donkeykongblog.blogspot.com/2011/12/donkey-kong-world-record-history.html) Walter states that he later rejected the funspot tape that Billy submitted and that he had accepted Steve's first World Record score of 947,200 on June 30th, 2003.
Here is his post about rejecting the funspot video tape: http://wayback.archive.org/web/20120222092249/http://forums.twingalaxies.com/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=11027 (http://wayback.archive.org/web/20120222092249/http://forums.twingalaxies.com/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=11027)
In the post about Walter's recognition of Tim's accomplishment states concerning Steve's accomplishment on June 30th, 2003.
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On January 2nd, 2008, Walter states that "The events portrayed in the \"King of Kong\" movie generally took place between June 30, 2003 and April 9, 2006. During that time period Steve Wiebe was Twin Galaxies' official Donkey Kong World Champion from June 30, 2003 until January 30, 2006 - a period of 943 days." Now I know that Steve scored 947,200 on June 30th, 2003, but I don't know the significance of January 30th, 2006." Though with this understanding in mind, despite the controversial nature of his score due to the "Double Donkey Kong", and despite that a decision was made to re-categorize it, no action was ever taken and the score remained at the top of the list as the Official Donkey Kong Champion. This means that Steve was already the world record holder at the time of the Funspot tournament when he had scored the live killscreen. This actually helped to deal with any controversial issues involved but technically he never lost the title, but only re-enforced it. Now if Billy was the "official" champion because of the re-categorizing decision, that may be why Kuh refereed to Billy as the champion, though "technically" Steve was the champion per the actual list.
Ok, I found the date of Billy's 1,047,200 game, the one on the video tape shown at funspot, this was done on June 7th 2004. Though it was rejected within 48 hours of its actual submission.
During the Director/Producer commentary they state that Brian Kuh had claimed to have reached the killscreen so they understood him to mean himself and not Tim. Though if this is true, I find it curious that Kuh would not be aware that Tim had that achievement documented with TG. Now, the commentary also stated that they were aware of three live killscreens, the third being Steve's at Funspot. This proves that they knew of Billy's 933K live score.
That is all I have for now. Still learning. The article I posted earlier from Chris' blog is really informative along with these posts that I am finding by Walter.
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Yeah, Corey, I guess that's what I was getting at before also with regard to any direct quotes of players that are taken from the movie. It seems painfully obvious to me that the editing involved was rather extreme. There are literally dozens of examples, just like that example you gave from Walter, where the exact words that were chosen just seem to be a bit off. Like, no one would talk that way if they were just spouting off a one-liner. I think a lot of people interpret the "awkward" sounding dialog to mean that many of the scenes were "scripted" and it was just poor acting. Although this may be true in a few cases, I tend to believe that most of the time it was just that the player (or Walter in this case) was in the middle of telling a rather long story, where all of the details were explained thoroughly, and the filmmakers went back and combed through all of that footage, found a half-sentence snippet that "sort of" fit with their story if they spliced it into a scene just right, and that's what they did, cutting out the whole rest of the story in the process.
I think if we watch the movie to be entertained, it's really a fun movie to watch, and you can let your brain just sort of "fix" these dialog oddities by just following along with the story and filling in the blanks subconsciously. But, once people try to start taking things straight out of the movie at face-value as if they are the complete fact of the situation, I think you run into a real problem as a huge amount of what was said was taken so far out of context that the words become almost meaningless.
About that quote from Steve -- of course I won't be able to find it now, but in one of these crazy threads, just within the last couple of days, somebody explained that when Steve was saying that comment about looking up the score in the TG database, he was referring to a period in his life that was taking place about 5 years prior to when he was being filmed saying it. So, the filming of that scene was going on somewhere around 2004 and so he was talking about looking up the score somewhere in the ballpark of 1999 or 2000. Tim's score was achieved in 2000, but was not verified until nearly a year later, sometime in 2001 (which has always been a very common occurance within TG unfortunately).
About that, make sure you don't take what Walter says as gospel. I remember reading all of those posts of his about KOK and setting the facts straight many years ago, and while there are a lot of interesting details in those posts, some of the details are also a bit murky. I think that Walter is genuinely a nice guy but his memory for details can be foggy and a lot of the details during that era were not handled by him directly, but were instead handled by members of his staff such as Robert and so there are times where he is actually just misinformed. He also seems to have made some terrible decisions along the way with respect to how he ran his company that I personally don't think he intended any harm, but which ended up pissing a lot of people off.
Anyways, the detail where he claims that Steve was the recognized champion from 2003 - 2006 just does not seem accurate to me. The 2006 date, I believe, was when TG finally got around to verifying Billy's Funspot tape that was put into and then immediately yanked from the database 7 or 8 months previously.
However, if there's ANYTHING that the movie does a decent job of portraying, it's how difficult a time Steve had at getting his scores to become verified and stick in the TG database. I'm fairly certain he was not the recognized champion from 2003 - 2006 since all of those scores that he submitted were quickly taken down and/or rejected for one reason or another.
Again, that timeline that's been linked a couple of times here:
http://superbunker.com/resources/dkt/ (http://superbunker.com/resources/dkt/)
... seems to do a decent job of showing which scores were known by TG staff and which ones were actually verified (and would show up on the public website as being the champion). You can see that Steve had a whole bunch of scores submitted during this time period but none of them actually stuck and the database reverted back to showing Tim as the champion after Steve's 2003 score was reclassified. Interestingly, despite this, that timeline above does show a version of the TG database from March, 2005 with Steve's score on top. I'm not sure what that's about. But Steve did get the record back later in 2005 at Funspot and held it for a few months until they finally verified Billy's tape in 2006.
Well, I guess the point is that there appears to be plenty of time where Tim was the verified champion of the game right up until a timeframe very shortly before the movie began filming. For everyone to try to tell Tim that THE reason he was passed over to be in KOK was because nobody knew that he was the champion and that he should have taken more action after his score was beaten really seems quite wrong on both counts to me. It should have been plainly obvious to the producers of KOK that Tim was relavent to the timeline of "recent" events. The producers clearly went to great lengths to edit the story such that Tim's score would not exist to their movie audience, constantly referring back to the 874,000 score as if it was the current WR score, taking bits and pieces of player dialog and using it to their advantage, etc.
However, once again, none of this means that the producers were "wrong" to make these decisions or that Tim is owed any money for any reason. But, we shouldn't exactly be going around and "blaming" Tim for his misfortune either.
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Good post, Dean. I just need to keep reading and go through things a little more thoroughly to get a firm grasp as to the actual timeline. I agree that we shouldn't exactly be going around and "blaming" Tim for his misfortune. And I hope that I have not come across that way to Tim. In fact, in all these posts I am attempting to connect with him, ask questions, and understand his perspective. And get some of his points documented and supported on the Forum. I hope you are still with the discussion, Tim.
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Sorry if a little OT but..
From the interview with Tim.
If a technique does exist for point pressing over one million, I don't know about it nor do I ever expect to be informed of it because trust me, no one would ever, ever, want to compete against me if I did!
Go for it! Honestly! I want to see you on the first place again!
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If a technique does exist for point pressing over one million, I don't know about it nor do I ever expect to be informed of it because trust me, no one would ever, ever, want to compete against me if I did!
I don't understand people's math on that. Why did people back in the day didn't think 1m was possible?
I mean, by just seeing your average scores on conveyer/rivet and spring level, you would how much you average. And by taking just the bottom hammer (+ top hammer) on each barrel screens, you would easily notice that 1m+ is doable by doing some maths.
I mean, I can understand thinking that 1.1m was impossible (back in the day), but how did people not think about learning how much they average on each screen and most important, how much they average by just getting the two hammers on the barrel screen.
I imagine people back in the day:"1m is impossible, if you do it it's because you're cheating!!!"
a 5 years old boy saying:"... but what if you take the bottom hammer?"
:"... OH MY GOD, you're a genius, I never thought about that! 1m is truly possible!".... lol.
I personally believe that Billy Mitchell always knew 1m+ was possible, same thing with Steve (when they both found out about the kill screen)
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If a technique does exist for point pressing over one million, I don't know about it nor do I ever expect to be informed of it because trust me, no one would ever, ever, want to compete against me if I did!
Point pressing verses point leeching?
When I did learn of these techniques, I was shocked as most would've been considered "point leeching" and not allowed. The "Kong Taunt" move on the rivets I knew about as far back as 1982. However, I could do it "without" having to move the joystick left or right after jumping to register 100pt jumps at Kong feet. It was a risky manuver to set up for it this way though
I don't understand people's math on that. Why did people back in the day didn't think 1m was possible?
Because what was known at the time verses what may have been "not allowed" as point leeching verses scores that were under 1 million did not warrant the experimentation of putting ones self more in harms way to achieve a higher score. It wasn't untill the score climbed higher that more game play seeking any extra points became necessary through more unconventional means.
I mean, by just seeing your average scores on conveyer/rivet and spring level, you would how much you average. And by taking just the bottom hammer (+ top hammer) on each barrel screens, you would easily notice that 1m+ is doable by doing some maths.
I mean, I can understand thinking that 1.1m was impossible (back in the day), but how did people not think about learning how much they average on each screen and most important, how much they average by just getting the two hammers on the barrel screen.
I imagine people back in the day:"1m is impossible, if you do it it's because you're cheating!!!"
Lots of people felt that 1m was not possible through conventional means at the time, not just myself. I remember Billy offering a $10k bounty in late 1999 for a million points on DK.
a 5 years old boy saying:"... but what if you take the bottom hammer?"
:"... OH MY GOD, you're a genius, I never thought about that! 1m is truly possible!".... lol.
I personally believe that Billy Mitchell always knew 1m+ was possible, same thing with Steve (when they both found out about the kill screen) Billy first made the Kill screen in 1982, not sure when steve did, I first had the kill screen in 1993 (on a cocktail table with the badly oriented to cabinet joystick)
Alot of people back then felt the same way about a 1m game including myself. For a time after 2005 and the bottom hammer was advanced point pressing. I felt that about 960-980k was the max if one was lucky. Remember there were only a few DK players at the time.
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Good post, Dean. I just need to keep reading and go through things a little more thoroughly to get a firm grasp as to the actual timeline. I agree that we shouldn't exactly be going around and "blaming" Tim for his misfortune. And I hope that I have not come across that way to Tim. In fact, in all these posts I am attempting to connect with him, ask questions, and understand his perspective. And get some of his points documented and supported on the Forum. I hope you are still with the discussion, Tim.
Yes, and I may add that your last rebuttal to mine was the best one I had seen in over 6 years. Glad to see the KOK video was put aside as factual reference material. That was your whole problem. Sad when a person can't even use a documentary film as facts to accurately answer or defend any facts the same documentary is based on.
I think the point I am more upset about is how these people made some money of the film material that I historically was a part of and purposely written out of.
Even Steve Saunders made 10k and never had the WR on DK. This was a huge slap in the face to me! I never knew that a film on the subject material was even in the works or even made until the summer of 2007. No doubt after all the main players checks cleared, only then do they contact me.
I couldn't tell you how much excitement I would've got participating in said film and the financial remuneration derived from would've changed my life for the better.
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Thanks, Tim! Most appreciated. I am glad that you are here connecting with us now. As a vital member of our community, and a prominent figure in the history of Donkey Kong, you are and will always remain important to me. I am very, very sorry about how history as unfolded for you. I can't imagine the emotional and psychological impact that had on you, and still has on you to this very day. I would imagine that it would be incredibly over-whelming. And I think that as you share those feelings with others, they themselves are extremely over-whelmed, so I can't imagine having those feelings myself. I hope that your experience in the forum and in connecting with us becomes more and more pleasant. We all have baggage and need to do our best to handle it. It just does not always translate well when explained to others. I am sure there are a lot of interesting things about you, Tim, and I think that if we were to try and focus on those things that more connections will be made. Thanks again for your thoughts and I look forward to our future and on-going discussions. :D
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Alot of people back then felt the same way about a 1m game including myself. For a time after 2005 and the bottom hammer was advanced point pressing. I felt that about 960-980k was the max if one was lucky. Remember there were only a few DK players at the time.
Yeah, I understand. With bottom hammer, it is understandable that some people might've though the maximum would've been like 980k back in the day (when people aren't very familiar with bottom hammer, you don't get THAT many points with it).
Thanks for the answer mate ;-).
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I agree about the double hammer , there are still players that can only hit 950-980k with using double hammer.
The only thing i dont quite understand about Sanders is signing his name "the original kong of kong." Don't understand what that means. Hope it's not because of the claimed score.
But yeah, any part in the film would have been a fun experience.
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I think the point I am more upset about is how these people made some money of the film material that I historically was a part of and purposely written out of.
I think that's a perfectly rational thing to be upset about, I'm sure I would be too. I think some of the folks here are wondering what this community can do though. They can't boycott the film on your behalf since many users were actually brought here (and discovered DK or at least the competition of it) because of that film and it is no longer really a current 'thing' for lack of a better term to act against.
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Tim, didn't you say Walter called you during the filming and said something along of the lines of "we're sitting on something big here." Why didn't you jump on it at that point?
I couldn't tell you how much excitement I would've got participating in said film and the financial remuneration derived from would've changed my life for the better.
(I'm being serious, but joking here) Excitement I could see... but financial remuneration changing your life? Now, I'm not saying $10K is a small chunk of change. If I went to Vegas and won $10K I'd be jumping for joy. However, consider the amount of time you've invested in DK and how much you could have earned if you worked at McDonald's for that same amount of time. I'd say most of us (1st and 2nd gen players) have played at least 1 year "full-time." A McDonald's employee makes more than $10K a year and I'm pretty sure none of them are saying their annual income is changing their life. In fact, Costco employees make $40K a year.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/06/news/economy/costco-fast-food-strikes/ (http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/06/news/economy/costco-fast-food-strikes/)
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Again, we could beat the top League of Legends teams if we put as much time and effort into that game as we do this game.
And being the best at LoL comes with a pretty nice prize, usually $1,000,000.
Although, I think I would be better off getting a job at Costco...at least that would be a guaranteed $40k, unless I got fired for skipping work to play DK.
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A McDonald's employee makes more than $10K a year and I'm pretty sure none of them are saying their annual income is changing their life. In fact, Costco employees make $40K a year.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/06/news/economy/costco-fast-food-strikes/ (http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/06/news/economy/costco-fast-food-strikes/)
If I worked at McDonald's, and got the $16k a year for working full time it would change my life at the present. Most likely though Tim has a better life than me at the present moment. Heck, most likely every single person posting in this forum has a better life than me. Yes, my life sucks that bad. :(
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(I'm being serious, but joking here) Excitement I could see... but financial remuneration changing your life? Now, I'm not saying $10K is a small chunk of change. If I went to Vegas and won $10K I'd be jumping for joy. However, consider the amount of time you've invested in DK and how much you could have earned if you worked at McDonald's for that same amount of time. I'd say most of us (1st and 2nd gen players) have played at least 1 year "full-time." A McDonald's employee makes more than $10K a year and I'm pretty sure none of them are saying their annual income is changing their life. In fact, Costco employees make $40K a year.
wow... I did some maths (srs), and 40 hours per week x 52 weeks = pretty much 2k hours. And I assume I played pretty much 3k hours of DK since the beginning. And I also watched pretty much 9k hours of DK streaming, so = 12k total hours involved with DK. And considering I started getting involved with DK pretty much exactly 5 years ago.... it means I've been involved with DK like 50 hours per week... therefore, I've been doing extra-time on DK each single week since I started getting involved with DK!
The awkward moment when you realized you spent more time with DK for the last 5 years than actually living your life..... but still totally worth it! ;)
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I agree about the double hammer , there are still players that can only hit 950-980k with using double hammer.
The only thing i dont quite understand about Sanders is signing his name "the original kong of kong." Don't understand what that means. Hope it's not because of the claimed score.
But yeah, any part in the film would have been a fun experience.
Steve Saunders may have been the original "KING of CON".......but he never had the record on DK, yet he profits off his fake score by appearing in KOK? My real score is cast with aspersions and negated?
I guess It depends on ones view point how you want to define "The King of Kong". Billy set the record in 1982. It officially stood for 18 years (not over 20 as the fictional film KOK states) until 8/16/2000.
If you define" King of Kong" as the first person to actually, officially beat this score billy set in 1982, that title officially and historically belongs to me.
Too bad when my subject material came up for a film Idea, I did not get compensated for it like the others. :(
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Again, we could beat the top League of Legends teams if we put as much time and effort into that game as we do this game.
And being the best at LoL comes with a pretty nice prize, usually $1,000,000.
Although, I think I would be better off getting a job at Costco...at least that would be a guaranteed $40k, unless I got fired for skipping work to play DK.
I think your missing the point here. Why shouldn't I have been compensated when the producers of KOK obviously used an exploited for profit, subject material and an achievement based on something I had accomplished first and can still prove to this day with archival documents and an actual video from 8/16/2000?
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Tim, maybe we should rename this thread to An Analysis of The King of Kong or something like that. It may be a little more suited to our actual discussion.
Sounds good to me
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Sorry if a little OT but..
From the interview with Tim.
If a technique does exist for point pressing over one million, I don't know about it nor do I ever expect to be informed of it because trust me, no one would ever, ever, want to compete against me if I did!
Go for it! Honestly! I want to see you on the first place again!
I no longer have an actual arcade machine to play on.
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Tim, didn't you say Walter called you during the filming and said something along of the lines of "we're sitting on something big here." Why didn't you jump on it at that point?
TIM SAYS: I've mentioned this in the past several times. As it turned out I was never planned to be in this "BIG" something Walter mentioned. It was in the summer of 2007, I got a call from both Walter and Billy. This was the first I ever knew there was flim interest in the subject material. Walter seemed upset as to how Billy was portrayed in the film. Billy was't too happy with it either.
TIM SAYS I was shocked they wrote out my 2000 score in thier time line. Not only this but aspersions were cast on my 2000 score to make it seem as if it never happened at all.
TIM SAYS: It was also mentioned to me that a feature film was planned based on KOK. This concept of a feature film based on KOK was an idea known as far back as 2007 that I know of.
TIM SAYS: One of the last things I remember Walter saying to be was and I qoute "you should start playing again as youre sittiing on something big"
TIM SAYS: Honestly, aside from small clips here and there I never saw KOK as it is listed as a DOC........I know better.
I couldn't tell you how much excitement I would've got participating in said film and the financial remuneration derived from would've changed my life for the better.
(I'm being serious, but joking here) Excitement I could see... but financial remuneration changing your life?
TIM SAYS : YES
Now, I'm not saying $10K is a small chunk of change. If I went to Vegas and won $10K I'd be jumping for joy. However, consider the amount of time you've invested in DK and how much you could have earned if you worked at McDonald's for that same amount of time. I'd say most of us (1st and 2nd gen players) have played at least 1 year "full-time." A McDonald's employee makes more than $10K a year and I'm pretty sure none of them are saying their annual income is changing their life. In fact, Costco employees make $40K a year.
TIM SAYS: I think your missing the point. Why should'nt I be compensated for subject material that was exploited by Seth Gordon for profit that was obviously based on an achievement that I had accomplished first and was historicaly apart of?
TIM SAYS After all, the other main co-conspirators.......er I ....mean....main players were paid.
TIM SAYS: I know in Steves world, 10k is probably just considered champagne money, but in my world, a payday like that could've been life altering for the better. Given the true historical context of the subject material Seth Gordon was exploiting, I as do many others, think I deserved it.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/06/news/economy/costco-fast-food-strikes/ (http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/06/news/economy/costco-fast-food-strikes/)
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Tim, maybe we should rename this thread to An Analysis of The King of Kong or something like that. It may be a little more suited to our actual discussion.
Sounds good to me
I believe that since you started this thread you would be the only person who can edit the title of your original first post.
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Oh stuff gets edited out mid sentence most definitely. I bet Walter could have had his sentence cut out just to what he said about billys score. Even the Steve was a basketball player was cut to Steve was a basketball.
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He wasnt actually a basketball???
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He wasnt actually a basketball???
To be honest, Ken, what you just said might be the most controversial thing about this documentary. I can't believe he wasn't a basketball... I were living in a lie for the past 6 years...
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I still believe that he was a basketball. He transformed into a human, later in life. You see Steve is special...
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He was a basketball. That part wasn't edited. He was also a 'starving grunge band'. Didja catch that as well?
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I just tracked down a VCR and played that 8/16/2000 game of Donkey Kong....the first documented game that broke billys 1982 DK record and NOT Steve Wiebie as dishonestly portrayed in the film KOK.
The video quality is good and the game is visible from start to finish with no breaks in continuity. I think I had 600k just on one man.
NOTE: The TG rules at the time were different then, not like today, so I don't expect anyone with critical thinking to retroactively apply the TG rules of today to the same game that did conform to TG rules over 13 years ago.
I will be cleaning up the video quality and will have a public showing on my justin TV channel the day BEFORE the KONG OFF!
This should make for some interesting questions for Billy, Steve Wiebie, and Walter Day, to answer.
Also looking for the old "TG spin" to cover themselves but the facts are pretty cut and dry now.
I'll start off with few intelligent questions I'd like to see answered after over 6 years:
Walter D. "Why did you cover up this WR score set on 8/16/2000 that was documented and verified on TG's own site for 3 years and remains in place today?"
Steve W. "Why did you take credit for someone else's previous gaming accomplishment and exploit it as your own for profit in the film?
Steve W. and Walter D. "Do you think it was fair you were paid money for exploiting anothers achievement? "When do you intend to make up for this gross derelict of arcade score keeping and misrepresentation of facts or will you continue to show the gaming scene what little character you really have by allowing this unresolved issue to continue inspite of the facts, documentation and proof to your contrary?"
Walter D. "Do you think it was fair that TG discredited a legit score inspite of the facts so you and a select insiders could profit?"
Steve W. "Do you think its fair that you got paid money for exploiting another gamers accomplishment as your own?"
Seriously looking foward to these answers.
Would make any Q and A's at the Kong off interesting.
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I think everyone here doesn't dispute the score. And, the score was verified and in the TG database during KoK filming, it was even shown in the DOC from this screen clip:
(http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2150/904309/21260953/407810643.jpg)
But Billy's 933K was in there at 2004 before filming started.
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I think everyone here doesn't dispute the score. And, the score was verified and in the TG database during KoK filming, it was even shown in the DOC from this screen clip:
(http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2150/904309/21260953/407810643.jpg)
But Billy's 933K was in there at 2004 before filming started.
So why Does the fictional film KOK clearly indicate that it was Steve who broke Billys 1982 record first?
Why is Steve not setting out to beat Billys 2004 record in the film?
Also that scoreboard is inaccurate as opposed to the game settings listed in 1999 and 2000
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Tim, thanks for your future stream of your game and making a highlight on Justin.tv. No one is going to ask Walter, Billy, or Steve these questions. If any of them were culpable of anything, they would have that on their conscience and would need to address it with themselves. If any of them decided to reach out to you, they would on their own. If you feel that they have hurt you, then you are to confront them, not anyone else in this community. If one of them publicly acknowledges you such as Walter has in a post I showed you, then they will do so. Whatever happened between you and these three individuals will not impact the way that this community relates to you and to the three of them. I don't think that it is appropriate for you to try and elicit from us this kind of response. Making a post letting us know that you will be streaming your once WR game is ok but it is not good form for you to make yet another post designed to champion your own personal agenda. There is a thread where we can discuss the video. But to be honest with you, Tim, people want to know the Tim that exists beyond this one conversation that keeps popping up on the forum. I will not say that I speak for everyone but I think that more than a majority has respectfully requested that you isolate this topic to its own thread and to try talking about something different. You will only alienate yourself if you keep making posts in this manner. Besides, I am sure that you would prefer to really connect with us on some other basis than what you have tried so far. Trust me, this will go a long way for you.