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General Donkey Kong Discussion => Donkey Kong Milestone Achievements => Topic started by: xelnia on October 15, 2013, 06:41:27 am

Title: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: xelnia on October 15, 2013, 06:41:27 am
Graham Hawkins just streamed the INP of Ben Jos Walbeehm's 904,100 game. This game was uploaded to MARP on November 30, 2001. The broadcast is in two parts:

Part 1: http://www.twitch.tv/stormdata/b/470396183 (http://www.twitch.tv/stormdata/b/470396183)
Part 2: http://www.twitch.tv/stormdata/b/470400789 (http://www.twitch.tv/stormdata/b/470400789)
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: Hawkins on October 17, 2013, 11:57:59 pm
I thought I'd better make highlights of these recordings as I lost a recording of mine the other day by accident.
This also allowed me to edit them down.

P1: http://www.twitch.tv/stormdata/c/3101766 (http://www.twitch.tv/stormdata/c/3101766)
P2: http://www.twitch.tv/stormdata/c/3101775 (http://www.twitch.tv/stormdata/c/3101775)
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: JNugent on October 18, 2013, 02:39:35 am
Thanks for broadcasting this score! 
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: ripper on February 24, 2014, 03:08:32 am
I remember this replay very well.  Ben Jos Walbeehm was like a Steve Wiebe.  He kind of came out of nowhere and was the only person getting these kind of scores on DK and was also the first person to break 900K on this game.  Poor Ben Jos Walbeehm was taking so much crap for this as well.  It was very much like seeing Steve Wiebe but 20 yrs. earlier.
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: dimmu--borgir on February 26, 2014, 12:27:18 pm
Great upload.

Any source for this Ripper? The crap-talking i mean?

Btw, there is only one date in the DK  history that counts. August 17, 2000!  <Tim>
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: ripper on February 27, 2014, 02:40:38 am
Great upload.

Any source for this Ripper? The crap-talking i mean?

Btw, there is only one date in the DK  history that counts. August 17, 2000!  <Tim>

I'm not sure if there is still a source around or not but I believe it may have been on the old old TG forums from 15 years ago and maybe on CAG now.  It pretty much came down to people not believing he made the scores or that anyone could actually get this kind of score.  Some people may have thought he cheated and spliced together some kind of MAME replay even though the guy got scores like this all the time and even on DK Japan.  You look at his scores now and it's just a normal but decent kill screen game and not even near 1M.  It's the history of DK and every time someone broke a record on it or got a really decent score on it then it just caused a lot of non believers.  Do you remember  <Tim> ?  He was totally over looked in the KOK and I think they could have just gave him 2 seconds of credit in the movie but they choose not to.  Now, these scores are known to be possible and people accept them a lot easier with no bad comments.
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: NightRider on February 27, 2014, 11:21:16 am
I don't think the original posts are around any more, but you can get the story straight from Ben Jos here:

http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php/topic,1437.msg23404.html#msg23404 (http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php/topic,1437.msg23404.html#msg23404)
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: ripper on February 27, 2014, 11:45:27 am
I don't think the original posts are around any more, but you can get the story straight from Ben Jos here:

http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php/topic,1437.msg23404.html#msg23404 (http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php/topic,1437.msg23404.html#msg23404)

Wonderful find NightRider!  That story brought back so much that I had forgotten about including the Crazy Kong part.  Who knows what would have happened if Ben had of showed up at FS and gotten the DK WR instead of  <Tim>.  History would have been different.
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: ChrisP on March 09, 2014, 12:07:51 am
Actually, thinking about it, there likely would not have ever been a "DK community" at all if Ben Jos had taken the record.

Billy vs. Steve would not have played out the same way, so the movie would not have played out the same way, probably not at all, and without the movie, none of this would be happening.

Wild!
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: ripper on March 09, 2014, 04:28:47 am
Actually, thinking about it, there likely would not have ever been a "DK community" at all if Ben Jos had taken the record.

Billy vs. Steve would not have played out the same way, so the movie would not have played out the same way, probably not at all, and without the movie, none of this would be happening.

Wild!

I'm not sure about this.  The big thing was that Steve Wiebe didn't beat Billy's classic score of 874,300 but he broke a million before anyone else.  Remember, Tim Sczerby   <Tim> actually beat Billy's score in August 17, 2000, before the KOK was ever released or before  <Wiebe> was ever around.   <Tim> was just left out of the documentary though, which is such a shame.

http://donkeykongblog.blogspot.com/2011/12/donkey-kong-world-record-history.html (http://donkeykongblog.blogspot.com/2011/12/donkey-kong-world-record-history.html)
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: xelnia on March 09, 2014, 06:26:55 am
Another interesting fact is that Ben Jos actually beat Billy's score (on MAME obviously) before Tim did it on a cab.

Here's the Wayback Machine capture of the MARP leaderboards from January 10, 2001. Scroll down or Ctrl+F to find Ben Jos' killscreen score of 893,400, with an upload date of September 12, 1999:

893,400 (http://web.archive.org/web/20010110065500/http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mode=search&short=%5ed&score=with)

You can make all the arguments you want about MAME vs. Arcade, but I think it's important to recognize that Ben Jos beat Billy's score with games that were publicly available, on more than one occasion, BEFORE Tim and Steve. I've attached the INP of the 893,400 game to this reply.

Player    Score    Date    Platform   
Billy Mitchell   
874,300
    August 13, 1982    Arcade
Ben Jos Walbeehm   
893,400
    September 12, 1999    MAME
Tim Sczerby   
879,200
    August 17, 2000    Arcade
Ben Jos Walbeehm   
904,100
    November 11, 2001    MAME
Stevie Wiebe   
947,200
    June 30, 2003    Arcade...DDK board...and the start of the verification drama
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: ripper on March 09, 2014, 06:32:50 am
I was around during this time and I remember how things were.  And I agree with you.  I'm just saying for the arcade platform it was a little different.  If Ben did this on the arcade platform back then then the whole story would have been different, I agree.
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: dimmu--borgir on March 09, 2014, 09:25:36 am
So Tim Szcerby has always been no:3? THREE? For gods sake! Put things in another perspective. Thank god he's playing mame in these days. Otherwise he would never accept being third. Maybe black goo on Ben Jos PC motherboard then.

Now, let's hope  <Tim>, ehh, sorry, Ben Jos finds his way to DKF for a new KOK drama..  ;)
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: ChrisP on March 09, 2014, 10:50:29 pm
Billy vs. Steve would not have played out the same way, so the movie would not have played out the same way, probably not at all, and without the movie, none of this would be happening.

I'm not sure about this.  The big thing was that Steve Wiebe didn't beat Billy's classic score of 874,300 but he broke a million before anyone else. 


What I meant is that KoK came into existence as a result of a lot of things being "lined up" in just the right way.

If Ben Jos had done anything on DK that would have changed the way Steve Wiebe went about going for the DK record (or 1 million), or if Ben Jos had done something on the game to make Billy react to *him* instead of Steve, or if Ben Jos had put up a score that took Steve slightly longer to beat, etcetera, etcetera, then the situation that led to the storyline that the filmmakers were attracted to might never have come about, or have been just different enough for them not to be interested.

I'm thinking in terms of the butterfly effect here, how if you were to go into the past and change just one small but critical event or circumstance, you could end up with a crazy alternate universe. <blinky>

I just think that Ben Jos is one of the people who was in a position to have made a critical difference in how things played out. (Of course, for that matter, Tim was too, if Tim had been more aggressive about coming back for the record once Steve beat it.)
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: ripper on March 10, 2014, 02:30:36 am
Sure, things could have been different but I think the filmmakers had their eyes set on Steve Wiebe, because he was 1st to break a million and Billy, because he was always a well known name and held the record for so long.  Even if Ben was there at 900K and Tim was in 3rd with his score and Billy was 4th I don't know what would have happened.  Maybe they all get in the movie but the way it worked out is OK except for the fact they left  <Tim> out completely.
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: ChrisP on March 10, 2014, 04:51:30 am
If there hadn't been the hot, juicy drama between <Billy> and <Wiebe>, and the shenanigans from <Roy>, <Kuh>, <Walter> etc. that helped to make the drama what it was, then the movie wouldn't have been set around the DK record chase at all. They would have followed Doris, or Abdner, or one of their other possible storylines.

Throw Ben Jos into the mix (let's say he goes to Funspot in 2000 and gets 950K+) and maybe events unfold such that none of that drama ends up happening. No drama, no movie! Or the movie is "Queen of Q*Bert" instead...
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: ripper on March 10, 2014, 05:15:53 am
Yea, no KOK and the DK record probably still belongs to  <Wiebe>.   Heck, no  <Wiebe> and the DK WR may still be under 1 million as the interest may not be there to reach out and hit a million. 

As for Ben putting up 950K, I'm not sure he could have done that with the method of his game play at the time.  Hitting 900K back then was a major deal but it was unknown about point pressing the barrels back then or grouping them right next to DK.  So gaining another 50K without using the bottom hammer would have been tough.

I would still like to see other movies like KOK but over a different game title.  Not just another documentary ABOUT video games but something in the same manner as Donkey Kong and a couple people (or more) battling over the world record on a certain title. 

There is actually a replay of Ben's score now.    http://www.twitch.tv/xelnia_games (http://www.twitch.tv/xelnia_games)
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: LMDAVE on March 10, 2014, 06:55:07 am
No one gives Mike Thompson (Wiebe's friend) the credit for KoK. Because if it wasn't for Mike hearing the stories from Steve about what happen to him during his DK record attempts he wouldn't have been blown away enough to contact his documentary friends to start the ball rolling.

If Ben Jos would have been the person it happened to, chances are Ben Jos wouldn't have had someone take in his story and make a documentary out of it, he just would have had to deal with it....like most of us would have.

KoK was Steve's story and originated through his friend Mike, so it would have never been created for Billy vs. any one else, including Tim S.

Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: NightRider on March 10, 2014, 12:25:59 pm
Even though there's no excuse for so many inaccuracies in TKoK, it isn't surprising. Here's something interesting that I read from Michael Crichton that rings true to my personal experience with various forms of the media and journalism:

Quote from: Michael Crichton
Media carries with it a credibility that is totally undeserved. You have all experienced this, in what I call the Murray Gell-Mann Amnesia effect. (I call it by this name because I once discussed it with Murray Gell-Mann, and by dropping a famous name I imply greater importance to myself, and to the effect, than it would otherwise have.)

Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect works as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray’s case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward-reversing cause and effect. I call these the “wet streets cause rain” stories. Paper’s full of them.

In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story-and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read with renewed interest as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about far-off Palestine than it was about the story you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know.

That is the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect. I’d point out it does not operate in other arenas of life. In ordinary life, if somebody consistently exaggerates or lies to you, you soon discount everything they say. In court, there is the legal doctrine of falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus, which means untruthful in one part, untruthful in all.

But when it comes to the media, we believe against evidence that it is probably worth our time to read other parts of the paper. When, in fact, it almost certainly isn’t. The only possible explanation for our behavior is amnesia.
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: xelnia on August 27, 2015, 10:04:40 am
So, this is a very old thread, but I feel it needs to resurface. JD informed us today that Ben Jos passed away in February 2013. It's amazing that none of us knew about this. While looking through this thread I noticed that Graham's highlights of the 904,100 game are no longer available. I restreamed this game on the DKF Twitch channel, added the highlight (http://www.twitch.tv/donkey_kong_forum/v/13080880) to the High Score List (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=366.0), and created a stats chart (attached below).

Ben Jos outplayed both Billy Mitchell and Tim Sczerby at the turn of the century, and by all accounts was rewarded with nothing but grief for it. I highly recommend that everyone watch this game. Watch it for its historical value, watch it to see how far ahead of the game Ben Jos really was (Staal patterns, wall jumps, elevator stage "Stella jumps", etc.), watch it to see how far the game has come in 14 years. But most of all, watch it to pay respect to a great gamer who can no longer share his talents with us.
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: ripper on August 27, 2015, 12:32:26 pm
I didn't know the guy died.  I wonder what happened.  He was the Steve Wiebe before DK really took off.  He just did it by breaking 900K before anyone else did.
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: jdllama on August 27, 2015, 12:44:01 pm
Incoming rant.

I'm sorry to have spread the word like this. QRS had let me know that BenJos passed back in March '13, but I thought it was common knowledge and never tried to let people know.

BenJos...BenJos was an inspiration. Not only did he put up with the BS that happened in the late 90's / early 2000's with everything Donkey Kong related (THERE'S NO WAY ANYONE CAN EVER BREAK 900K!), but he was someone that tried to get me on the right path.

Back in the 2000's, I was some teenager who thought he was top dog and was just hot shit. BenJos helped instill some civility and humility into me without embarrassing me or being a jack ass.

He actually helped sway me to the opinion that it's hard to find an absolute terrible game. He said he programmed some Barbie game back in the 80's, and that while it was a job, he still put a lot of love into it, and that taught me that games need some love too.

Sorry. I had gotten over his passing back when QRS first told me, but xelnia's post on this brought up some old feelings (and some tears) that needed to be discussed.

This is cheesy as hell, but it seems appropriate:

The world was a better place when BenJos was alive, even if he was just being a father and husband.

And since he is no longer with us, that means he is, by definition, in a better place.

RIP.
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: tudose on August 27, 2015, 12:57:26 pm
ben jos is a king <3
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: lakeman421 on August 27, 2015, 01:52:40 pm
I enjoyed watching this Jry.  This was a lot of fun seeing how the best player played during that era.  He seemed very efficient on all the non barrel boards.  8100 average on pies considering he almost never grabbed the hammer (Not sure if he even did).  6100 on elevators considering he didn't go for prizes shows how quickly he could get to the top.  Back then it seemed like players would spend a lot of time waiting for the longest spring possible before going up, but Ben seemed to decide a lot quicker when to go.  The 7200 on rivets was also pretty good considering he never leeched Kong's foot, and I still wonder if he even knew about that point pressing technique.  It's crazy to think about if he was still around and got back into DK what he would be capable of knowing the information we know now.  Respect.
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: hooch66 on August 27, 2015, 01:55:20 pm
This is great this post is here. These stories need to be told for posterity if nothing else. May BenJos live on and be credited with being one of the best of his era.
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: ripper on August 27, 2015, 02:39:08 pm
If I remember correctly, his game was Crazy Kong as he never seen DK until MAME came out.
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: stella_blue on August 27, 2015, 04:00:09 pm

Ben Jos' game summary was also posted in the  DK Data Library of Memorable Games (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=304.msg11067#msg11067)  back in October 2013.

Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: xelnia on August 27, 2015, 07:07:09 pm

Ben Jos' game summary was also posted in the  DK Data Library of Memorable Games (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=304.msg11067#msg11067)  back in October 2013.

Sorry I missed this one, sir.  BibleThump
Title: Re: Ben Jos Walbeehm - 904,100 (November 30, 2001)
Post by: francoisadt on September 16, 2019, 05:58:27 am

Ben Jos' game summary was also posted in the  DK Data Library of Memorable Games (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=304.msg11067#msg11067)  back in October 2013.

Sorry I missed this one, sir.  BibleThump
Thanks for sharing.