Donkey Kong Forum
General Donkey Kong Discussion => General Donkey Kong Discussion => Topic started by: homerwannabee on October 04, 2013, 03:27:05 pm
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I hate to say it, but I have a feeling that the powers that be are going to be ignoring Dean Saglio's 1.2 million. The reasons being is that I think the powers that be have an axe to grind. It's too bad that possibly the score of the century may just get ignored due to politics. Maybe there can be attention, but I do think it's going to take this community to due all they can to constantly nag those in charge to get this press attention. Just sayin'.
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Dean has all our respect and I am sure we will do all that we can to promote his achievement. We will do at least this much.
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Wouldn't be the first time the "powers that be" lied and downplayed a score so one of the inside cronies could profit. I knew it would take time but people are waking up to the fact that the whole "donkey Kong thing" is for Billy and Steve and always WILL BE.
UnFortunately the backing of the DK forum is NO Match for Seth Gordon, his slimey lawers and these spoiled rich kid Hollywood punks and their so-call "expert" gaming historians" and "expert panesl"
Sure Dean might get some recognition beyond the scope of this forum, however if theres money to be made off something like this, Billy and steve will be cashing in.............walter will always be in tow for that quick buck as well..and the story will go like this "Deans score was NEVER VERIFIED and constantly disputed".............then when the checks have cleared DeaN WILL GET THE CREDIT AND NOTHING ELSE! Sad but true as this is the Motis Operendi
My advice to Dean is send this score directly to Guniess and then have it notorized and registered as intellectual property and classified as a historical achievement by some other place other than TG (I wish I did this 13 years ago)
The gaming public will
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Wouldn't be the first time the "powers that be" lied and downplayed a score so one of the inside cronies could profit. I knew it would take time but people are waking up to the fact that the whole "donkey Kong thing" is for Billy and Steve and always WILL BE.
Tim, here is the thing. I don't think Billy or Steve will ever have even the Donkey Kong Arcade world record again (In fact I don't think either one will even have the Donkey Kong Junior Arcade record again). Billy's rumored high score as you may know is lower than Hank's, Vincent's, and now Ross Benzinger's. There are just too many really, really good players who are focusing on this game now. In my opinion these two are now just figure heads for Donkey Kong. They rule Donkey Kong as much as the Queen of England rules her country.
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I know that if Dean cared about the "fame", he would buy an arcade machine and get a score on it. But Dean only care about getting a high score on Donkey Kong and only care about the community knowing it. Dean plays for the right reason: To be the best! ;)
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I know that if Dean cared about the "fame", he would buy an arcade machine and get a score on it. But Dean only care about getting a high score on Donkey Kong and only care about the community knowing it. Dean plays for the right reason: To be the best! ;)
This goes beyond Dean's score Vincent. In my mind this is a slight on the whole Donkey Kong playing community, and not just a slight on Dean.
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I know that if Dean cared about the "fame", he would buy an arcade machine and get a score on it.
I don't even think a new arcade world record by a new name would do much these days either. Imagine if Ross got a few extra smashes the other night. I doubt he would have gotten any major networks involved..maybe...who knows for sure, but I just don't see it. I do still think it's pretty wild that Hank has had the arcade WR for this long...that's a pretty big accomplishment given the number of major players that have advanced in the last 3 years.
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I guarantee if Billy or Steve had done this, it would be on CNN soon if not by now.
Seth Gordon, The fat Hollywood gastropod that "claims" to be a documentarian would even now be covering all the angles to see who they can omit, what TG officials to bribe, who will go along with the fake story and to sweep as much info under the rug that may conflict with whatever narrative they want the idiot public to believe..after all this would interfere whith their profits.
Looking forward to Man Vs. Snake ( Good thing Steve didn't play Nibbler or Tim Mcveys score would've disappeared somehow)
However, it grieves me Billy and Walter are in it as well which almost destroys for me what sounds like an interesting human interest story.
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I guarantee if Billy or Steve had done this, it would be on CNN soon if not by now.
Seth Gordon, The fat Hollywood gastropod that "claims" to be a documentarian would even now be covering all the angles to see who they can omit, what TG officials to bribe, who will go along with the fake story and to sweep as much info under the rug that may conflict with whatever narrative they want the idiot public to believe..after all this would interfere whith their profits.
Looking forward to Man Vs. Snake ( Good thing Steve didn't play Nibbler or Tim Mcveys score would've disappeared somehow)
However, it grieves me Billy and Walter are in it as well which almost destroys for me what sounds like an interesting human interest story.
I definitely understand your feeling on that, Tim. But personally, I don't see any way to hate, or even dislike Steve Wiebe. But again, things that happened to you didn't happen to me, so I understand your point of view.
The fame will always go to Billy and Steve (for the most part of it), but I'm fine with that.
I think that Hank was the person that has gotten/and will ever get that much exposure (after Billy and Steve), mainly due to the fact that he's a plastic surgeon. But again, Hank being the champion definitely gives a wrong image of the DK community: Not everyone are genius people, some people like myself are meathead and proud to be! ;D
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Actually I think if Ross had topped the arcade record there would have been some mainstream attention on it. Dean's score, however, is a MAME score.
The Nibbler story is fun. There's a scene where they re-created the 'Ironman competition' where Tim won. I played Jeff Peters, or whoever the qbert guy was, and Richie plays Vollandt on Joust, and our good friend Freeko plays young Tim.
I thought it was funny that I play the guy who got beat by Tim, considering I am the guy to beat nowadays:)
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Dean has gotten a lot of Interviews and Press for his Donkey Kong Scores.
The only reason I do not see him getting major Interviews.. He just upped his High score not to long ago?
Another factor he is not on Facebook Twitter and other sites .. That's a major factor in Putting someone over with there Events and scores .
I can see Cat doing an interview with Dean.
Richie would have him on his web show.. That seems like something of the past..
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Arcade Culture: the days of future past
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While this is true, you should ask yourself why is this relevant? Does anyone here play games for mainstream media attention? I think most people here care to get recognized by the community but I'm also pretty sure that not many people would care for media attention. You don't get paid for any of these interviews (well I did get paid a trivial amount for one), but if you're playing for mainstream attention you're playing the wrong game.
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Wouldn't be the first time the "powers that be" lied and downplayed a score so one of the inside cronies could profit. I knew it would take time but people are waking up to the fact that the whole "donkey Kong thing" is for Billy and Steve and always WILL BE.
Tim, here is the thing. I don't think Billy or Steve will ever have even the Donkey Kong Arcade world record again (In fact I don't think either one will even have the Donkey Kong Junior Arcade record again). Billy's rumored high score as you may know is lower than Hank's, Vincent's, and now Ross Benzinger's. There are just too many really, really good players who are focusing on this game now. In my opinion these two are now just figure heads for Donkey Kong. They rule Donkey Kong as much as the Queen of England rules her country.
I think you're right............however Billy nor Steve need not to have the record,......... they have something more powerfull than a dated and documented world record achievement........what is this? Connections, Special interest and media whores like Steve Wiebies movie pals Seth Gastropod .....er...... I mean Gordon and Ed Cuntingham...er.......... I mean Cunningham.
Neither Bill nor Steve had the record on DK from 8/17/2000 thru 2003.
Yet a fictional film was made a few years latter and if you weren't an insider or a spoiled yuppie punk with connections in the film business it didn't matter who else had the high score or when.
Hell even Steve Saunders got in on the act and scored himself 5 figure deal....from Gordans fraud DOC........This is someone I could beat on the game when I was 11 years old..and as far as DK history went, Steve Saunders only lied about his score in 82 and never had the record and not only that but couldn't even play the game that well.
So Steve Saunders gets over $10000 for being a crook and a liar and friend of Billy (no wonder he became a lawyer) and I got nothing when I actually had the high score and could, still to this day, prove it with the video on 8/16/2000............OH wait Steve Wiebies movie pals.(there such nice guys remember) said That My score was constantly disputed and impossible to verify and they tried several times to reach me. This was also a prefabricated lie...............Walter was in on the scam as he knew better and so did many others.............then when the KOK was completed, the deals signed, checks cashed and done deal, only "then" do these people find me......yea to see what I knew at the time and to cover their own asses...................I'm telling you Billy Steve, Walter are not to be trusted in any possible financial gains that may result from a high score being exploited..............I'm sure Rick Fothergill would also agree.
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You want mainstream attention, you better play The Glob.
:)
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I am not sure what the purpose of this conversation is. I agree with Vincent. If none of this even matters to Dean, then why bother even talking about it. I also agree with Hank that we play for the right reasons. Donkey Kong existed long before Billy, Steve, or Walter, and we enjoy playing it and talking about it, it is that simple.
And how many times do we need to hear the same story from the past? What is the point at this juncture in time? Tim, if you want to play DK and connect with all of us then that is fine, I am just not sure what you hope to accomplish by ranting this same story over and over. Do you want us to feel sorry for you?
Forgiveness. That is all I have to say to you. Free yourself from this, otherwise just continue to let the bitter root spring up and defile you again and again. Only you can make that choice.
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You want mainstream attention, you better play The Glob.
:)
The Glob is where it's at
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Wouldn't be the first time the "powers that be" lied and downplayed a score so one of the inside cronies could profit. I knew it would take time but people are waking up to the fact that the whole "donkey Kong thing" is for Billy and Steve and always WILL BE.
UnFortunately the backing of the DK forum is NO Match for Seth Gordon, his slimey lawers and these spoiled rich kid Hollywood punks and their so-call "expert" gaming historians" and "expert panesl"
Sure Dean might get some recognition beyond the scope of this forum, however if theres money to be made off something like this, Billy and steve will be cashing in.............walter will always be in tow for that quick buck as well..and the story will go like this "Deans score was NEVER VERIFIED and constantly disputed".............then when the checks have cleared DeaN WILL GET THE CREDIT AND NOTHING ELSE! Sad but true as this is the Motis Operendi
My advice to Dean is send this score directly to Guniess and then have it notorized and registered as intellectual property and classified as a historical achievement by some other place other than TG (I wish I did this 13 years ago)
The gaming public will
You hear that sound? I think it's a broken record.
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That's funny, however its a record that's not going to stop playing.
KOK is NOT a documentary and will forever be a black eye on the aspect and integrity of game score keeping................but as longs as the trendies get to hang out with celebrity hucksters at events like Billy Steve and Walter and "feel" like their apart of that power structure and winning team, more power to you.
These same people you suck up to will sell you out if it meant a few more dollars for themselves.
It must be so nice to live in denial......I must try it sometime.
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I know that if Dean cared about the "fame", he would buy an arcade machine and get a score on it. But Dean only care about getting a high score on Donkey Kong and only care about the community knowing it. Dean plays for the right reason: To be the best! ;)
I know that if Dean cared about the "fame", he would buy an arcade machine and get a score on it. But Dean only care about getting a high score on Donkey Kong and only care about the community knowing it. Dean plays for the right reason: To be the best! ;)
This goes beyond Dean's score Vincent. In my mind this is a slight on the whole Donkey Kong playing community, and not just a slight on Dean.
Its not just the fame part, its what ever financial remuneration that the subject could be used for down the road. For that reason I urge not just Dean but anyone of the top contenders to go about having their score legaly recognized by a court of law, notorized and copyrighted as intellectual property so what happened to me doesn't happen to anyone else.
I know people think they have "friends" in this cult but I guarantee when money comes into the picture they will find what few if any friends they actually have.
A few years down the road I don't want to hear or see some B.S. DOC about how Steve or Billy was the first to get 1.200,xxx on DK with toadies Steve Saunders and Walter creeping around on the take for a fast buck while Dean or someone else gets nothing
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Tim you got to be in Dwaynes documentary. Wouldn't you much rather be in a doc that tells the truth and your side of the story rather than a doc that would exploit your hatred towards the Man! They would have used everything you said against you to make you look like this a**hole like they did with others in the movie. You need to be thanking god you didn't get asked to be in the film. You will always hold this aggression inside but you need to use it as fuel and put up another score instead of seeking sympathy. I know you wanted to get the fame that Steve achieved. As much as you hate Seth and Steve and all them deep down inside you wanted to be them and that's ok. Whether others admit it or not we all want to be recognized for our accomplishments no matter how trivial they are to whoever else hears about them. From my 3 year old sons 400 point score to Deans 1.2 million you all should be reconized for what you've done. I know you had the world record but you can't let this anger consume your everyday life. What's done is done. I hope someday you can make peace with that.
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That's funny, however its a record that's not going to stop playing.
KOK is NOT a documentary and will forever be a black eye on the aspect and integrity of game score keeping................but as longs as the trendies get to hang out with celebrity hucksters at events like Billy Steve and Walter and "feel" like their apart of that power structure and winning team, more power to you.
These same people you suck up to will sell you out if it meant a few more dollars for themselves.
It must be so nice to live in denial......I must try it sometime.
I actually knew all the facts because I tend to look at both sides before I make a judgement. But remember IT WAS A MOVIE from YEARS ago. I got into DK because I was a record holder on a couple games and wanted to play a game that was competitive. DK was the game and I saw highlights from the first Kong Off and it looked like a lot of fun with guys who are in for a friendly competition in front of a crowd. Thats what it's all about. We are all friendly people who play competitively and also help each other out with advice. KOK was great for many reasons, and bad for many reasons. We all get why you are upset with how it turned out, but quit cramming it down our throats like we are clueless. We know what happened and understand your frustration. The movie was years ago and it's all water under the bridge now. You need to quit trolling from under that bridge and get over it because at this point it is honestly pathetic the way you present yourself. I really hope you change your attitude real quick, because this community doesnt welcome such negativity.
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Steve beat Billy's 874,300 score (by a lot, and many times over), when he was in college in the late 80s. He sold his machine because he kept hitting the kill screen (in the mid 900Ks) and thought it was broken.
He WAS the first player to beat Billy. Just not officially. In fact, it's probable that Steve was the player with the true highest score for damn near two decades.
(For that matter, 874,300 was not Billy's PB in 2000. It may have not even been his PB in 1982.)
At no point did Tim actually have the highest score, except on the TG leaderboard (which Steve didn't know about, and Billy didn't care about), and both players had Tim absolutely crushed, scorewise and skillwise, by the time the documentary started filming.
In any case, "who beat Billy first" was not the point of the movie anyway, the storyline would have been the same whether or not Tim had been mentioned, and ultimately Tim has gotten more interest and notoriety for NOT being in this movie than he would have for being in it.
You tell me which is the worse evil: filmmakers making the decision to omit details for the sake of clarity, accessibility, and running time (ie, doing their job), or spewing bile, slander, and bullshit accusations at an innocent person for the better part of a decade?
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Personally Tim I wish they did include you in the film, and also Billy Mitchell's 933k score as well. I think they could have added it, and it would have been just as compelling. To tell you the truth if this had taken place 5 years prior you probably would have been included. You see somewhere along the lines a new style of documentary was decided upon. One that focused more on the narrative instead of the fact just the facts, and nothing but the facts style of documentary.
Maybe we can blame reality TV for the way documentaries are made now Tim. Documentary movie makers took note on how reality TV stretched the truth in order to make for more compelling TV, and decided to go that route with Documentaries. You see after you got the record Tim, and lost it you are never really heard from again as far as Donkey Kong competition goes in regards to the movie. You basically fell off the earth.
In a narrative film they usually want a person to reappear, and be somewhat significant again. If you read any story a character is usually reintroduced in some interesting way. For you it was just the record, and you weren't really heard from in any way up until the movie came out. So basically your record became an interesting side note, but unfortunately did not fit in any way with the narrative since Billy Mitchell did take back that record with his 933k score. I think they were worried that people would see you, and than wonder "What happened to the guy who initially broke the record?" It basically puts a hole into the whole narrative of the documentary.
Having said that, again I think you should have been put into the film. If this was a documentary from before 1990 you would have been included. You just got screwed by the new style of documentary making. The film was short to begin with, and I don't think 5 extra minutes would have harmed the film. In fact it could have made for a good pre-story. Showing that Billy Mitchell at the time very much cared for this record, and was going to strike back if someone took it. I think if anything it could have built up the narrative if done correctly. But unfortunately the film makers just wanted to focus on one main protaganist against the antagonist, and his posse of individuals who seem to go out of their way to support the antagonist.
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Tim you got to be in Dwaynes documentary. Wouldn't you much rather be in a doc that tells the truth and your side of the story rather than a doc that would exploit your hatred towards the Man! They would have used everything you said against you to make you look like this a**hole like they did with others in the movie. You need to be thanking god you didn't get asked to be in the film. You will always hold this aggression inside but you need to use it as fuel and put up another score instead of seeking sympathy. I know you wanted to get the fame that Steve achieved. As much as you hate Seth and Steve and all them deep down inside you wanted to be them and that's ok.
No, you are putting words in my mouth and thoughts in my head head. Fame meant little to me. I just wanted the financial compensation I should've recieved and rightly so. Steve Saunders made over 10k......... oh.........thats right........... he was a close friend of Billy and an insider and being one of these scammer lawyers helps too. I could not tell you how much $10 could've changed my life for the better. Instead it went to a bunch of spoiled yuppie punks that probably didn't appreciate it any way.
Whether others admit it or not we all want to be recognized for our accomplishments no matter how trivial they are to whoever else hears about them. From my 3 year old sons 400 point score to Deans 1.2 million you all should be reconized for what you've done. I know you had the world record but you can't let this anger consume your everyday life. What's done is done. I hope someday you can make peace with that.
Making piece is hard........its knowing and experiencing the "i don't give a F@#K" mentality of contemporary society for far too long. Life isn't about what you know so much as it is about "who" you know.
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I just wanted the financial compensation I should've recieved and rightly so.
For what? Not being in the movie? If I got compensated for every time I wasn't included in a movie I'd be set for life.
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I just wanted the financial compensation I should've recieved and rightly so.
For what? Not being in the movie? If I got compensated for every time I wasn't included in a movie I'd be set for life.
This has to be the least thought out and and displays more naive imbecility than any response I have ever recieved on this topic in 6 years :/
The difference between you and me is the fact "YOU" did NOT earn the right to be in KOK that was taken from and based on a gaming accomplishment"I" did..............there fore you do NOT deserve any financial remuneration ...................I did.
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Capitalism does not adhere to "moral obligation"; it has been this way in America as far back as the beginning of the 19th century. The film was produced in a "FREE COUNTRY". Please stop acting like they were obligated to do anything other than what they chose. Moral compasses are not used in Capitalism. It seems to be a fairly consistent and lasting part of American Culture... They don't owe you anything, No one owes anyone anything in a free, capitalist nation.
Again, we all agree you "got the shaft" but the producers of the film had no legal obligation to include you. That was a choice which they had every right to make; they followed the laws to a T.
Sorry Tim, I personally feel like you got screwed, and I'm sure many other here would agree with that. I would not wish that situation on anyone, although, I am certain there have been millions of others who could share a similar story, BUT at least they were important enough to be a part of a topic that became socially relevant (That's the "glass is half full" viewpoint; I did something that was important enough to be in a movie, unfortunately they chose not to include me).
The fact that you are even in this situation means YOU WERE IN A PLACE OF HONOR THAT NOT MANY CAN RELATE TO, YOU JUST DIDN'T GET PUBLIC RECOGNITION FOR IT. Omission is It's own accomplishment, It means you actually were competitive and relevant, otherwise you wouldn't have been "omitted".
Unfortunately, there are 0 laws on the book that say "documentaries must be factually accurate, while providing benefits to those 'entitled' to compensation"
Morally WRONG? YES
Biased and In-accurate? YES
Illegal to omit you? NO
Illegal to not pay you? NO
Illegal to not include your scores? NO
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I think you should try to get the record back, Tim. The record is still enough of a poser pace to be beatable without too much pain (still hard though).
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I just wanted the financial compensation I should've recieved and rightly so.
For what? Not being in the movie? If I got compensated for every time I wasn't included in a movie I'd be set for life.
This has to be the least thought out and and displays more naive imbecility than any response I have ever recieved on this topic in 6 years :/
The difference between you and me is the fact "YOU" did NOT earn the right to be in KOK that was taken from and based on a gaming accomplishment"I" did..............there fore you do NOT deserve any financial remuneration ...................I did.
I guess some people don't understand sarcasm. Your name or score was not mentioned once in the film which you have a right to be pissed about, but now youre saying it's all a money thing now? Not fame or recognition? Because that's what I thought upset you originally, but now that it's a money thing that makes it even worse. Steve Saunders and those guys were paid thousands of dollars for their rights to be in the film. So what? The Kong Off 3 top prize is 3000, so I suggest you get your ass to the Kong Off and give yourself a chance at that prize money. Or would that be selling out as well?
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Tim, I've always said this since the release of KoK. The movie was more about Steve crossing one million and Billy's vindication afterwards. Even though there were twist to make it look like it was always Billy and Steve just came along, the real plot of the story is what happened to Steve after crossing one million. IF I'm not mistaken, your score was still 895K at the time.
Historically they could have (should have) mentioned your accomplishment, but they seemed to be more focus on Steve's story about what happened after submitting his million point tape.
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One day Tim I hope you find peace with this whole thing.
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We should make a movie. Tim at the kong offs go up to vince and throw water in his face and say this is from Hank. Then we could center all the controversy around that and you could make your millions. Ok in reality now your life is what you make it. I hope you come up with an answer to your money problems in the right way instead of staying in the forums and talking about the movie. Best of luck to ya! BTW sorry for putting words in your mouth.
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This whole thread is TL;DR, so apologies if I cover something that's been mentioned. Second, I'm just getting up, so I'm a little groggy, and cranky, so more apologies if I sound curt or condescending. Now with that out of the way...
George, what media are you talking about? CAGDC? TG? Online gaming news sites? Local news? CNN? BBC? I can totally see this being covered by our little niche sites such as Alpiger's and maybe even Kotaku, but let's be honest here, hardly anyone outside of our ridiculously small gaming circle cares about a score on any of these games. Granted, a 45640749 hour marathon may raise a few eyebrows, but that's due to the fact that one is pushing the physical limits of the human body at that point. It's like climbing a skyscraper with only your thumbs. It's going to get attention because it's pushing the limits of what the body can do. Now if someone else used their entire hands to climb that same skyscraper, yeah it's impressive, but it wouldn't even be a blip on the national media radar because people do that all the time.
And we're talking about MAME here. Now I am in no way trying to discount Dean's score, since 1.2M is REALLY f'n impressive no matter how you slice it, but to some (many?) people, it kind of loses something when it's not on original hardware. If I beat an arcade WR on MAME, I wouldn't expect to be put in the same category as the WR holder on original hardware. It's just not the same. Almost, if not all, DK masters readily admit that playing on MAME is a whole different animal than arcade. A keyboard is just more precise than a 30 year old ghetto joystick. Dean has an advantage over arcade players, plain and simple. It's like carving an ice sculpture with a small chisel versus a chainsaw. Yeah, it's impressive to pull off a beautiful carving, but even more so with the chainsaw due to the inherent lack of fine control that the chisel offers. It's a sad fact, but arcade scores are simply more heralded than MAME scores.
Last (and I could be WAY off here), but Dean never struck me as someone who's in this for fame. He wants the big scores. While it would be nice to see Dean get the recognition he deserves for 1.2M, the reality is that 99.99999999999% of the world's population has no idea how big that score is, and even fewer care. It sucks, but that's how it is. If you play arcade games for fame outside of the few hundred serious, active players in our community, you are playing games for the wrong reason.
Of course this is all my $.02 and IMHO.
Dean, your score is fucking massive. Congratulations. Next stop, 1.3M? ;)
::drops mic::
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So I ended up going back and reading through the thread. Almost wish I wouldn't have now. Anyway, since I'm too lazy to google, Tim, who are you? I don't mean any disrespect, but I honestly don't know of any Tim who is or was a world class DK player. Of course my brain is not as sharp as it used to be, so I may be derping out here.
And dude, if you've been at this for 6 years, I think it's time to let it go. There are SO MANY things you could be doing with your time other than bitching on a video game forum that would be infinitely more productive. I hope you don't let whatever this situation is occupy the rest of your life. Look at how that turned out for Roy Shildt.
BUT if you wish to continue complaining how you got screwed to the handful of people who will actually listen, more power to you.
PS - You and Dwayne should totally team up
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::takes mic::
Tim is the guy that had 879k on Donkey Kong before KOK came out, and KOK talked about Billy Mitchell as if he was the real DK champion with his 874k score, and they didn't mention a single time Tim Sczerby in the movie.
::drops mic::
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So I ended up going back and reading through the thread. Almost wish I wouldn't have now. Anyway, since I'm too lazy to google, Tim, who are you? I don't mean any disrespect, but I honestly don't know of any Tim who is or was a world class DK player. Of course my brain is not as sharp as it used to be, so I may be derping out here.
Sorry Corky, but that really isn't cool. Most of the heat Tim has gotten in this thread I totally understand, but I think you crossed the line there. You have to give the man credit where credit is due. He was seriously plugging away at this game trying to get the highest known score when Donkey Kong was an afterthought for most of us. You may not like his whining, but the guy deserves to have the respect for what he has done in this hobby.
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Corky, Tim is Tim Sczerby. He is the one who first broke Billy's 1982 record.
And Dwayne and Tim have already teamed up:
Tim Sczerby The truth about the king of kong (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGQaPDz2xGw#ws)
Tim, I feel like this is the wrong place to complain about such things. Everyone on these forums knows what really happened and we all know your perspective on the situation. Also most of us weren't around when it happened and NONE of us can do anything to change it. Basically complaining here is pointless.
My suggestion is to move forward. I assume if you were going to sue those guys you would have done so already.
Beat the WR. Or come to KO3 and beat Steve and Billy. Or throw water in Vince's face (thanks Bliss). Make it interesting so maybe another production company would try to make another documentary. There are dozens of filmmakers trying to ride the coattails of KoK right now. But if you speak to the documentarians, you'll come to the realization that there is not much money in making documentaries. How much did you get paid to be in Dwayne's documentary? KoK was an exception (even then it grossed < $1M, so no one is a millionaire), but no one knew that in advance, so I somehow doubt Billy/Steve got paid anything substantial.
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So I ended up going back and reading through the thread. Almost wish I wouldn't have now. Anyway, since I'm too lazy to google, Tim, who are you? I don't mean any disrespect, but I honestly don't know of any Tim who is or was a world class DK player. Of course my brain is not as sharp as it used to be, so I may be derping out here.
Sorry Corky, but that really isn't cool. Most of the heat Tim has gotten in this thread I totally understand, but I think you crossed the line there. You have to give the man credit where credit is due. He was seriously plugging away at this game trying to get the highest known score when Donkey Kong was an afterthought for most of us. You may not like his whining, but the guy deserves to have the respect for what he has done in this hobby.
Did my post appear to have a facetious tone? I was being completely serious. Yes, I AM too lazy to google, and no, I DIDN'T know who Tim is.
I have heard the name Tim Sczerby before, but I wasn't aware of his accomplishments. As I said, I meant no disrespect.
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Beat the WR. Or come to KO3 and beat Steve and Billy. Or throw water in Vince's face (thanks Bliss). Make it interesting so maybe another production company would try to make another documentary.
These would be the best (except throwing stuff at my face (no homo)). I would enjoy a new documentary about all the new players. And I would really enjoy you beating the record.
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So I ended up going back and reading through the thread. Almost wish I wouldn't have now. Anyway, since I'm too lazy to google, Tim, who are you? I don't mean any disrespect, but I honestly don't know of any Tim who is or was a world class DK player. Of course my brain is not as sharp as it used to be, so I may be derping out here.
Sorry Corky, but that really isn't cool. Most of the heat Tim has gotten in this thread I totally understand, but I think you crossed the line there. You have to give the man credit where credit is due. He was seriously plugging away at this game trying to get the highest known score when Donkey Kong was an afterthought for most of us. You may not like his whining, but the guy deserves to have the respect for what he has done in this hobby.
Did my post appear to have a facetious tone? I was being completely serious.
My bad, it was the last sentence. PS You and Dwayne should totally team up that made me think you were being facetious. They did just that a couple of years ago bashing the King of Kong.
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Vincent is like the master of dropping "no homo"s. I giggle literally every time.
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Steve beat Billy's 874,300 score (by a lot, and many times over), when he was in college in the late 80s. He sold his machine because he kept hitting the kill screen (in the mid 900Ks) and thought it was broken.
He WAS the first player to beat Billy. Just not officially. In fact, it's probable that Steve was the player with the true highest score for damn near two decades.
(For that matter, 874,300 was not Billy's PB in 2000. It may have not even been his PB in 1982.)
At no point did Tim actually have the highest score, except on the TG leaderboard
So what you are saying is even back 13 years ago the TGI score board and verification meant nothing? think about what you just said ."Tim didn't have the high score ....except on the TG leader board"...........So are you saying TG was NOT the official score keeper at the time?...........Or are you saying that a score on the TG leaderboard meant nothing?
It was supposed to be THE "official score keeper".............I don't care what scores Steve or Billy "claim" to have prior to/ between 8/16/2000 and 2003..............What I say and did and when I can actually prove to this day.
So are you telling me Steve just merely saying he got over 900K in the late 80's early 90's takes precedence over my DOCUMENTED VERIFIED 2000 score?
Steve didn't Know about TG at the time.............Well when he did find out about tgs leaderboard he would've saw my name over billys now would he?
, and both players had Tim absolutely crushed, scorewise and skillwise, by the time the documentary started filming.
This is BS as well. By NO means did either Billy or Steve have me "crushed" skill or score wise. I had a 932,xxx in november of 2005 but no video or proof.
In any case, "who beat Billy first" was not the point of the movie anyway,
Thats correct, the point was so Steve, Billy Walter and Steve Saunders who creeps around in his yuppie pink polo shirt " to make a few bucks and so Seth Gastropod can launch a film career.
the storyline would have been the same whether or not Tim had been mentioned, and ultimately Tim has gotten more interest and notoriety for NOT being in this movie than he would have for being in it.
Still it sickens me how these people got paid and what.
You tell me which is the worse evil: filmmakers making the decision to omit details for the sake of clarity, accessibility, and running time (ie, doing their job), or spewing bile, slander, and bullshit accusations at an innocent person for the better part of a decade?
My accusations are not "bullshit as you say..............NOW You tell me what is worse someone who goes through the trouble playing a game follows the rules and gets it verified by proper channels.....................or the people that jerk the same accomplishment away outright lie to do it and exploit the subject material for thier own selfish gain.......you tell me whats worse :)
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Tim. If someone from this forum or anyone else were to make a documentary of donkey kong now. Would you want to be in it? Would you want compensation or would you just be happy with getting your views across and getting your turn to speak to the world audience about how you were played by the documentary and how you were the real king of kong at the time?
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I think Tim would actually be really entertaining in a movie about DK. He's quite a character.
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Chris don't know if you were joking or not but I totally agree and love to get more of his side on record through movie other than a forum.
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I was 100% serious.
Tim makes me say "wht da?!?" and I would watch a movie about him.
I love in Dwayne's video when he angrily whips the tape out.
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But, at the same time accused Steve Wiebe of playing with a hacked board to get a low 1 million score. Hasn't the light been shown now? Time to let that go a realize it was a major overreaction amplified by Dwayne.
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But, at the same time accused Steve Wiebe of playing with a hacked board to get a low 1 million score. Hasn't the light been shown now? Time to let that go a realize it was a major overreaction amplified by Dwayne.
This is a strawmen argument that will no longer work...............in context I was stating that the game I saw was suspicious. I also stated that theres NO WAY to score a million points ..............."WITHOUT POINT PRESSING".......................anyone here who is not a cult ass kisser and who does not fear reprisal from the "higher ups" will confirm this.
A lot of the "point pressing tactics Steve used would've just been called "point leeching" and most likely not allowed by TG at the time as there was little interest in exploiting the game.
For example:
If I was playing Zoo Keeper and used the top platform on the coconut levels to jump down and jump up ect.... rack up single jumps worth 80k each (still not easy but possible) and I beat Mr. Crams record doing this, the score I got would not count as this is considered point leeching.
But If I had connections in the film business.......slipped Walter and Billy some cash....promised them some media attention in a fiilm....then Mr. Crams score would suddely become "unverified" at this point" considered "constantly disputed" ( even though everyone knows better) and the point leeching I used turns to "point pressing" and because the insiders make a profit exploiting the subject material, "point pressing is now allowed and becomes the game play norm.
Again this is basicly a strawman argument and I love how many people use it to feebly try to explain away the initial cover up and score disenfranchisement to start with.
Let me ask you what is your argument about my initial score being covered up?
What do you think of Walter Steve and Billy profiting from this?
What do you think of KOK producers intentionally lying and fabricating reasons to keep me out of the story's time line?
Do you think its fair that Steve Saunders made a 5 figure profit for just being an associate of Billys and I recieved nothing?
So in closing, trying to use the fact I thought Steves game was suspicious (as did others) is NOT a defense for the wrongdoing done to me at the start.
What do you think of the fact it was done with malice of forethought?
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This is a strawmen argument that will no longer work...............in context I was stating that the game I saw was suspicious. I also stated that theres NO WAY to score a million points ..............."WITHOUT POINT PRESSING".......................anyone here who is not a cult ass kisser and who does not fear reprisal from the "higher ups" will confirm this.
A lot of the "point pressing tactics Steve used would've just been called "point leeching" and most likely not allowed by TG at the time as there was little interest in exploiting the game.
I was referring to a statement you made after scoring 1,024,000 and said this was done on a real machine not a hacked board, with "hacked board" referring to the previous arguements against steve.
Let me ask you what is your argument about my initial score being covered up?
I wrote you on this last week which you either missed or ignored:
Tim, I've always said this since the release of KoK. The movie was more about Steve crossing one million and Billy's vindication afterwards. Even though there were twist to make it look like it was always Billy and Steve just came along, the real plot of the story is what happened to Steve after crossing one million. IF I'm not mistaken, your score was still 895K at the time.
Historically they could have (should have) mentioned your accomplishment, but they seemed to be more focus on Steve's story about what happened after submitting his million point tape.
What do you think of Walter Steve and Billy profiting from this?
What do you think of KOK producers intentionally lying and fabricating reasons to keep me out of the story's time line?
Do you think its fair that Steve Saunders made a 5 figure profit for just being an associate of Billys and I recieved nothing?
So in closing, trying to use the fact I thought Steves game was suspicious (as did others) is NOT a defense for the wrongdoing done to me at the start.
What do you think of the fact it was done with malice of forethought?
About the profiting, they were in the doc, provided wealth of information towards what the storyline was following, the main characters should have got paid.
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This is a strawmen argument that will no longer work...............in context I was stating that the game I saw was suspicious. I also stated that theres NO WAY to score a million points ..............."WITHOUT POINT PRESSING".......................anyone here who is not a cult ass kisser and who does not fear reprisal from the "higher ups" will confirm this.
A lot of the "point pressing tactics Steve used would've just been called "point leeching" and most likely not allowed by TG at the time as there was little interest in exploiting the game.
I was referring to a statement you made after scoring 1,024,000 and said this was done on a real machine not a hacked board, with "hacked board" referring to the previous arguements against steve
If a Double Donkey Kong PCB does not qualify as a "hacked" board, then I don't know what does
Let me ask you what is your argument about my initial score being covered up?
I wrote you on this last week which you either missed or ignored:
Tim, I've always said this since the release of KoK. The movie was more about Steve crossing one million and Billy's vindication afterwards. Even though there were twist to make it look like it was always Billy and Steve just came along, the real plot of the story is what happened to Steve after crossing one million. IF I'm not mistaken, your score was still 895K at the time.
Historically they could have (should have) mentioned your accomplishment, but they seemed to be more focus on Steve's story about what happened after submitting his million point tape.
What do you think of Walter Steve and Billy profiting from this?
What do you think of KOK producers intentionally lying and fabricating reasons to keep me out of the story's time line?
Do you think its fair that Steve Saunders made a 5 figure profit for just being an associate of Billys and I recieved nothing?
So in closing, trying to use the fact I thought Steves game was suspicious (as did others) is NOT a defense for the wrongdoing done to me at the start.
What do you think of the fact it was done with malice of forethought?
About the profiting, they were in the doc, provided wealth of information towards what the storyline was following, the main characters should have got paid.
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Tim. If someone from this forum or anyone else were to make a documentary of donkey kong now. Would you want to be in it? Would you want compensation or would you just be happy with getting your views across and getting your turn to speak to the world audience about how you were played by the documentary and how you were the real king of kong at the time?
I pretty much did that with Dwayne Richards a few years ago. Mainly I like to keep in the shadows and I never would've come foward or said anything from the start if I was not able to prove 100% with the actual video tape and witness present that my score did happen.
I figured with this proof the KOK producers would make things right.......turns out that not only did the producers not care, but most of the gaming community ( with the exception of a few) didn't care either and I was attacked anytime I spoke out about it.
Basicaly the only thing I'm asking is compensation for the wrong doing and disenfranchisement I was a victim of. Seth Gordan is lucky I did not come from a wealthy family or I would've sued a few years ago...and quite frankly would've won.
I've done nothing but shread any kind of argument against my facts for 6 years..........and will continue to do so.
Not sure if I really need any more media attention.........not that I mind it, but its not something I want to actively seek. There's a lot of really good players that have spawned in the last few years I've been frozen in carbonite and I doubt I'll ever get the high score again as I no longer have access to an actual DK game......................and Dean has pretty much ended the pressing limits with 1,200,000 recently on Mame.
On Mame, if I have a good game and can bring it home, (l=22) I may be able to place between Vince Ross or Hank if I'm lucky.
Billy stated if you want to attach your name to a score and written into the record books, you have to pay the price...I've been paying that price for the last 13 years and its mentally exhausting :/
This is a strawmen argument that will no longer work...............in context I was stating that the game I saw was suspicious. I also stated that theres NO WAY to score a million points ..............."WITHOUT POINT PRESSING".......................anyone here who is not a cult ass kisser and who does not fear reprisal from the "higher ups" will confirm this.
A lot of the "point pressing tactics Steve used would've just been called "point leeching" and most likely not allowed by TG at the time as there was little interest in exploiting the game.
I was referring to a statement you made after scoring 1,024,000 and said this was done on a real machine not a hacked board, with "hacked board" referring to the previous arguements against steve.
Let me ask you what is your argument about my initial score being covered up?
I wrote you on this last week which you either missed or ignored:
Tim, I've always said this since the release of KoK. The movie was more about Steve crossing one million and Billy's vindication afterwards. Even though there were twist to make it look like it was always Billy and Steve just came along, the real plot of the story is what happened to Steve after crossing one million. IF I'm not mistaken, your score was still 895K at the time.
Historically they could have (should have) mentioned your accomplishment, but they seemed to be more focus on Steve's story about what happened after submitting his million point tape.
What do you think of Walter Steve and Billy profiting from this?
What do you think of KOK producers intentionally lying and fabricating reasons to keep me out of the story's time line?
Do you think its fair that Steve Saunders made a 5 figure profit for just being an associate of Billys and I recieved nothing?
So in closing, trying to use the fact I thought Steves game was suspicious (as did others) is NOT a defense for the wrongdoing done to me at the start.
What do you think of the fact it was done with malice of forethought?
About the profiting, they were in the doc, provided wealth of information towards what the storyline was following, the main characters should have got paid.
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Have you given any thought about coming to Denver next month Tim? I know a lot of people would like to hang out and chat with you, have a beer, play some games...etc.
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Well it now looks like I was dead on the money. Not only was I right, but it was worse than I thought. So yes, Dean did not get any worldwide press. This was expected. Dean did not get any Nationwide press. This was also expected. Dean did not get Kataku press. This was expected by some including myself. Dean did not get any Twin Galaxies press. Again I was expecting this. Dean did not get any press from "The Entertainer". Again I was expecting that. What I was not expecting is that the 1.2 million game would not get any attention from the Donkey Kong blogspot. That one surprised me since the 1.2 million was so important in the writings.
So what does this mean? It means that Brian Allen's killscreen MAME game that he failed to submit to Twin Galaxies got more press than Dean's 1.2 million. So my friends it's time to stick your heads in the sand, and pretend this really isn't a problem. See I know one thing. Like most hobbies, most of you are CONFORMISTS. Generally being a conformist is a good thing. But in this situation you wanting to not rock the boat, and keep things copacetic is one of the few times when being a conformist is a bad thing.
I wish there were more people like me who could take a stand and actually speak up when they see something that is completely screwed up to the nth degree.
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George, if you ask all the players (and Hank addressed this in his interview last night with Allen) if they care about any sort of fame or news coverage...most would probably say they don't care. So, in the end, it really doesn't matter. Most play to challenge themselves, beat the machine, and belong to the community.
Like Hank said in the interview...you should be playing League of Legends or StarCraft (Or Call of Duty)...games like that, with much more of a fan base...if you want money/fame.
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George, if you ask all the players (and Hank addressed this in his interview last night with Allen) if they care about any sort of fame or news coverage...most would probably say they don't care. So, in the end, it really doesn't matter. Most play to challenge themselves, beat the machine, and belong to the community.
Like Hank said in the interview...you should be playing League of Legends or StarCraft (Or Call of Duty)...games like that, with much more of a fan base...if you want money/fame.
This not about fame, its about justice. About what is right, and about what is wrong. I spoke up when it was announced the MAME players were getting the shaft at the upcoming Kong Off. You don't understand the greater implications of why they gave Brian Allen the attention. They gave him the attention to give this Donkey Kong community the middle finger. They are ignoring Dean's accomplishment because they are giving the middle finger to this community.
This is why I am upset.
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Oh ok, I kinda understand now. Your other post pointed out a bunch of media outlets, I didn't know you were focused mainly on TG.
Maybe you could elaborate a little on "You don't understand the greater implications of why they gave Brian Allen the attention."?
In the end...this issue you brought up will only bother you if you let it...and I would guess that I don't think Dean cares if someone wanted to interview him or not. I know I wouldn't care one way or the other.
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Oh ok, I kinda understand now. Your other post pointed out a bunch of media outlets, I didn't know you were focused mainly on TG.
Maybe you could elaborate a little on "You don't understand the greater implications of why they gave Brian Allen the attention."?
In the end...this issue you brought up will only bother you if you let it...and I would guess that I don't think Dean cares if someone wanted to interview him or not. I know I wouldn't care one way or the other.
I have not talked to Dean, but have you thought about the fact that maybe he is not speaking up because he might be perceived as whiner? Just sayin'. If Dean spoke up there is a chance this community would grill him over that.
Why am I speaking up like this? Because I will tell you why. Because I can possibly see a future in 20 years where a new set of players come onto the scene. They will ask the question. Why didn't anyone speak out against the screwed up things that were happening at the time like the MAME players getting the shaft, and people ignoring Dean's 1.2 million game? I want to be one of the few that can proudly stand up, and say. I did, I spoke up, and I spoke loudly. I just happened to be in the extreme minority that was willing to stand up against this injustice.
You see I will stand up for what I see as a great injustice in this community. Something that not only hurts one player, but hurts the community at large. This is wrong, you know it's wrong, and almost all of us know this is wrong. But I am one of the few that is willing to stand up, and voice their opinion on the matter.
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So my friends it's time to stick your heads in the sand, and pretend this really isn't a problem. See I know one thing. Like most hobbies, most of you are CONFORMISTS.
I guess I'm not understanding this. What makes you think that most of us don't notice that it's an issue? Speaking for myself, I see it pretty much the way you do, but what exactly would you suggest that we do about it that would actually change things? Also, I disagree with the 'conformists' label. A conformist doesn't enjoy 30 year old games while taking all the slings and arrows that this community does. It's definitely not what the "cool kid" cliques are doing. I play them because I love the games.
EDIT: Okay, I see you posted the solution is to 'speak up'. I guess my thoughts may be a bit biased since I personally could care less about any attention. Anyone involved with trying me to do any 'interviews' will tell you there is A LOT of arm-twisting and frustration involved getting me to agree to do them.
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I think the situation with Dean (or in Hank's case with the arcade), is they both have been on top so long. Dean has already amazed people years ago, and as he continues it's just addition or an extention of what already happened.
For example, in the NFL, When Drew Brees broke Johnny Unitas' record for consecutive games with a touchdown pass, it was big news because the record stood 40 years. But as the weeks continued and he kept adding TD's to the record, that part is not as much of a big deal.
And to be honest, outside the DK community, the number 1.2M doesn't register with the public. The word "world record" registers, but he already had that on MAME.
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And to be honest, outside the DK community, the number 1.2M doesn't register with the public. The word "world record" registers, but he already had that on MAME.
Again, I am not disappointed in the lack of world wide attention. I am not disappointed in the lack of nationwide U.S. coverage. Or even from Kataku. This is about those closest to the community that are ignoring it.
Yep, Marky D. In this case it's just about speaking out. Basically I am saying what this guy said. I'm as mad as Hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtfCRaNg5EU#ws)
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I've never seen that movie so I don't have any context. After that famous quote, did he do anything else about what was making him upset?
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What I was not expecting is that the 1.2 million game would not get any attention from the Donkey Kong blogspot.
Regarding the above quoted statement, I must respectfully disagree with you, George.
It's simply unfair to lump Chris together with what you perceive as a disinterested and/or vindictive media group.
Dean's epic achievement did receive attention over at Donkey Blog:
1,206,800 (http://donkeykongblog.blogspot.com/2013/10/1206800.html)
The blog post is brief (for now), but concludes with the following sentence:
"More on this history-making performance soon."
The abbreviated entry is also explained in Dean's congratulatory thread:
Dean Saglio breaks 1.2 million! (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=553.msg10297#msg10297)
Chris has done an outstanding job covering DK players, events, tournament results, milestone achievements, and anything else related to the game. When the time is right, I have no doubt that Dean's historic game will get the quality write-up it deserves.
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What I was not expecting is that the 1.2 million game would not get any attention from the Donkey Kong blogspot.
Regarding the above quoted statement, I must respectfully disagree with you, George.
It's simply unfair to lump Chris together with what you perceive as a disinterested and/or vindictive media group.
Dean's epic achievement did receive attention over at Donkey Blog:
1,206,800 (http://donkeykongblog.blogspot.com/2013/10/1206800.html)
The blog post is brief (for now), but concludes with the following sentence:
"More on this history-making performance soon."
The abbreviated entry is also explained in Dean's congratulatory thread:
Dean Saglio breaks 1.2 million! (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=553.msg10297#msg10297)
Chris has done an outstanding job covering DK players, events, tournament results, milestone achievements, and anything else related to the game. When the time is right, I have no doubt that Dean's historic game will get the quality write-up it deserves.
Sorry, did not see that. That's why I said "Surprised". I don't see him with any agenda whatsoever. To be honest I think on Chris' part it's more either A)Not having the time, or B)Some other reason that has nothing to do with politics.
Edit: It's been awhile since I saw that movie, but that scene stood out. From what I remember it's about a reporter that basically has a nervous breakdown live on air, and the public misconstrues this for something else, and soon he is thrown into the national spotlight with his own primetime TV show and everything. After awhile he becomes what he stood up against in the first place. Having said that, this is still an awesome quote. :)
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I think most know and accept things are not always going to be equal, acomplishing "A" does not mean you'll get "B"
Yes, Brian Allen, got a lot of attention for getting a killscreen. Was it anymore important than anyone else's KS? No. Everyone put a lot of effort into their first killscreen. Maybe, squeeky wheel gets the grease. Given that CAT was a fan of his and pushing for him to get it definitely helped get a TG article.
Allen Staal got an interview from Hank for acheiving 700K. Does that mean everyone who gets 700K now should expect that? Of course not, but given Allen's character, and animated ways of dealing with failure and keep going and the name he made for himself in the community, that is what got him the interview.
I'm not really sure what's left out there to spark a big news in the DK world anymore. 1.1M doesn't really do it anymore, beating Billy and Steve doesn't seem to be a big deal anymore. You can expect your own thread for that, but that's about it.
Perhaps a new arcade world record holder is all that left to spark big news.
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To Tim:
Not to drag this out too much, but Tim. From my point of view, Billy and Steve were paid to be actors in a fictitious film based on their lives and loosely centered around their rivalry in Donkey Kong. Over half the movie is about Billy and Steve as characters, the clash of their personal and professional situations, with DK as a backdrop.
I understand that you are ridiculously upset that you feel like you were cut out from the movie and subsequently financial compensation. I would be just as hung up if I felt I lost out on $10,000. But the absolute bottom line is, nobody outside of the CAG community gives two craps about Donkey Kong. Every person I've come across who has seen the film literally remembers nothing about it besides "Billy is a bit of an ass and Steve is a total ham."
Your skills at DK which were amazing at the time had ZERO worth to the filmmakers unless you were the owner of a statewide restaurant chain, or an engineering school graduate teaching high school science and playing drums in a band on the side because he got laid off from Boeing, both with wife and kids. That's why Sanders got in as well even though you're right that he never really got anywhere in DK.
Now, if you DID reach out and show you were an alright guy and had a wife and kids or at least an interesting career with an interesting backstory, and you STILL got shut down, then yeah, it was a bit unfair, but that's Hollywood. The guy next to you hits the Jackpot in a slot machine, you don't get any of it, and you can gripe all you want. Maybe you could have done a better job of making friends with them while they were filming.
To George:
I'm a part of the Speedrunning community as well, which has taken off and, with a ton of luck, started to make being good at single player video games profitable. The people who get 600-1000 viewers on their streams every single day, no matter what they are playing, make about $100-150 a month. How many of us can get 600 or even 60 or even 20 every single day?
There is a big wall around our community, fortified by the fact that the games we play are downright boring to watch, even though they're a lot of fun to play. A significant majority of gamers would rather watch the intro of Super Mario 64 for hours on end before they'd think twice about shutting off a DK 1-1 reset-a-thon. Unless you can make 20 hours of 1-1 and then ~2 hours of barrel board leeching anything but a snoozefest to people who don't really care about playing the game themselves, it's going to stay that way. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is.
PS: And TG has always been a crapshoot when it comes to garnering notoriety, especially now as they're barely relevant to anything anymore.
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I had to think a bit about this one. My initial thought was that Dean didn't submit his score to TG, but as you pointed out neither did Brian. To be honest though, Brian did not get much press either for his killscreen-- an article from PSP and TG. I don't think it was on any mainstream website.
First I think Brian likes the attention, not just from the DK community but a wider audience. He seeks the attention. Dean, on the other hand, shies away from it (except from within the community).
Secondly Brian is the "underdog" and people like a good underdog story (KoK is a classic example). Because of this, a lot people will try to help Brian out by promoting him. The 2 articles that were written about him had that tone. It was almost expected that Dean was going to get 1.2M at some point, but Brian killscreening was not a certainty.
As I said last night, with only a few exceptions, none of us really play for fame or money (but ok maybe for the women). Think about how many hours you've invested in DK and how much you could have made by working a minimum wage job with those hours. Yeah, it doesn't make sense.
Crowd's reaction to Vincent Lemay entering Kong Off row and taking off his shirt:
(http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/9/1/4/30914.jpg?v=1)
(Actually these are StarCraft groupies)
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Network is an awesome film, and the satire was bang on...almost 40 years old and still totally relevant...
8)
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It's just personal opinion of course, but as a whole, I think folks really don't need to get worked up about not getting asked questions regarding 30+ year old video games and their relationship with them. I get genuinely creeped out by a significant portion of what I see in the hobby that literally has nothing to do with having fun playing video games.
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I always liked the UHF version better:
Life is Like a Mop (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9W-smdTVjA#ws)
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Hank said "I had to think a bit about this one. My initial thought was that Dean didn't submit his score to TG, but as you pointed out neither did Brian. To be honest though, Brian did not get much press either for his killscreen-- an article from PSP and TG. I don't think it was on any mainstream website.
First I think Brian likes the attention, not just from the DK community but a wider audience. He seeks the attention. Dean, on the other hand, shies away from it (except from within the community).
Secondly Brian is the "underdog" and people like a good underdog story (KoK is a classic example). Because of this, a lot people will try to help Brian out by promoting him. The 2 articles that were written about him had that tone. It was almost expected that Dean was going to get 1.2M at some point, but Brian killscreening was not a certainty."
OK, that's a plausible explanation. Having said that I still wish Dean got some small time pub for his accomplishment.
Steve said "It's just personal opinion of course, but as a whole, I think folks really don't need to get worked up about not getting asked questions regarding 30+ year old video games and their relationship with them. I get genuinely creeped out by a significant portion of what I see in the hobby that literally has nothing to do with having fun playing video games."
Well baseball is a 140 year old game, basketball is over 100 years old, and so is Football. Also here is the thing you need to know about this hobby. It's a competitive individual game. This is for the most part, not team oriented. I would advice you to take a gander at other non team activities like Tennis, or Boxing. Just take a look at youtube videos of John MaCenroe, Jimmy Connors, Serena Williams, Novak Djokovic, Mike Tyson, and Floyd Mayweather.
I am pretty sure you would be creeped out by some of their antics as well.
P.S. "creeped out" in my opinion is a woman's phrase. It's akin to calling something "cute".
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Well baseball is a 140 year old game, basketball is over 100 years old, and so is Football. Also here is the thing you need to know about this hobby. It's a competitive individual game. This is for the most part, not team oriented. I would advice you to take a gander at other non team activities like Tennis, or Boxing. Just take a look at youtube videos of John MaCenroe, Jimmy Connors, Serena Williams, Novak Djokovic, Mike Tyson, and Floyd Mayweather.
I am pretty sure you would be creeped out by some of their antics as well.
P.S. "creeped out" in my opinion is a woman's phrase. It's akin to calling something "cute".
I'm still not sure why we compare a niche within a niche hobby to professional tennis or boxing where you get paid millions of dollars a year to perform athletic feats in front of millions of people on tv. Like Hank said play something that South Korea plays or something.
Plus tennis and boxing are head to head. I don't think people would pay money to watch John MacEnroe hit a ball against a brick wall which may have random outputs but is still inanimate. Of course I could be totally wrong, maybe if he were to shout at it a lot or something....even a CAG tourney setting is like lots of people hitting a tennis ball against a brick wall and seeing who returns it the most.
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Well baseball is a 140 year old game, basketball is over 100 years old, and so is Football. Also here is the thing you need to know about this hobby. It's a competitive individual game. This is for the most part, not team oriented. I would advice you to take a gander at other non team activities like Tennis, or Boxing. Just take a look at youtube videos of John MaCenroe, Jimmy Connors, Serena Williams, Novak Djokovic, Mike Tyson, and Floyd Mayweather.
I am pretty sure you would be creeped out by some of their antics as well.
P.S. "creeped out" in my opinion is a woman's phrase. It's akin to calling something "cute".
I'm still not sure why we compare a niche within a niche hobby to professional tennis or boxing where you get paid millions of dollars a year to perform athletic feats in front of millions of people on tv. Like Hank said play something that South Korea plays or something.
Plus tennis and boxing are head to head. I don't think people would pay money to watch John MacEnroe hit a ball against a brick wall which may have random outputs but is still inanimate. Of course I could be totally wrong, maybe if he were to shout at it a lot or something....even a CAG tourney setting is like lots of people hitting a tennis ball against a brick wall and seeing who returns it the most.
Because they have a common thread. They are competitive. And yes, that's my whole point in using those comparisons as well. You would think that in competitive fields like Tennis that are hugely popular, that people would refrain from doing things that would "Creep you out". I mean they are getting paid millions of dollars to do this, and millions of people are watching them, and they are still doing crazy things.
So why would you expect anything more of a competitive hobby where the repercussions are so much less. I mean none of us is going to lose millions of dollars by doing something crazy. None of us is going to have millions of people hate them "Unless your Billy Mitchell" for acting like a jerk. Yet those who make millions, and have much on the line still act like tools from time to time.
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I honestly wish you the best of luck in attempting to make competitve classic arcade gaming a financially viable career choice.
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Also it's nice to see speed running get some time in the sun in becoming more popular. It would explain why Andrew Gardikis is more focused on his speed runs than trying to get a higher Donkey Kong score. I don't think his 2739 followers would particullarly appreciate him mainly playing Donkey Kong.
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I honestly wish you the best of luck in attempting to make competitve classic arcade gaming a financially viable career choice.
Why are you stressing the money issue here? The competitive drive is stronger than money or fame. I don't understand why you think that you need money or fame to be competitive. That's a rather shallow way of thinking if you ask me.
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I honestly wish you the best of luck in attempting to make competitve classic arcade gaming a financially viable career choice.
Why are you stressing the money issue here? The competitive drive is stronger than money or fame. I don't understand why you think that you need money or fame to be competitive. That's a rather shallow way of thinking if you ask me.
Most of the athletes you mentioned in your analogy I imagine would not have spent years and years making many sacrifices, honing their athletic skills if they were not expecting to be compensated for it somewhere down the line. It was your analogy to professional sports, not mine. I play competitively in tournaments every once in awhile which do not really pay much, but I like to hang out with my friends, I don't care if I get attention for it though or not, however this seems to be very important to you.
Maybe I'm unclear as to what the overall issue is. Can you blame me? I'm not the sharpest they come.
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Hank said "I had to think a bit about this one. My initial thought was that Dean didn't submit his score to TG, but as you pointed out neither did Brian. To be honest though, Brian did not get much press either for his killscreen-- an article from PSP and TG. I don't think it was on any mainstream website.
First I think Brian likes the attention, not just from the DK community but a wider audience. He seeks the attention. Dean, on the other hand, shies away from it (except from within the community).
Secondly Brian is the "underdog" and people like a good underdog story (KoK is a classic example). Because of this, a lot people will try to help Brian out by promoting him. The 2 articles that were written about him had that tone. It was almost expected that Dean was going to get 1.2M at some point, but Brian killscreening was not a certainty."
OK, that's a plausible explanation. Having said that I still wish Dean got some small time pub for his accomplishment.
Steve said "It's just personal opinion of course, but as a whole, I think folks really don't need to get worked up about not getting asked questions regarding 30+ year old video games and their relationship with them. I get genuinely creeped out by a significant portion of what I see in the hobby that literally has nothing to do with having fun playing video games."
Well baseball is a 140 year old game, basketball is over 100 years old, and so is Football. Also here is the thing you need to know about this hobby. It's a competitive individual game. This is for the most part, not team oriented. I would advice you to take a gander at other non team activities like Tennis, or Boxing. Just take a look at youtube videos of John MaCenroe, Jimmy Connors, Serena Williams, Novak Djokovic, Mike Tyson, and Floyd Mayweather.
I am pretty sure you would be creeped out by some of their antics as well.
P.S. "creeped out" in my opinion is a woman's phrase. It's akin to calling
something "cute".
Seems when someone other than Steve or Billy gets a high score, the reaction is "well its a 30 year old came nobody cares about" However in 2007 when the fraudulent DOC KOK was released, (at this time DK was 26 years old) then everyone cared or this forum would never came to be.
I've already lived this. When I broke Billys 1982 record on 8/16/2000 it was considered a milestone and there was media attention from TG. Back then, DK was not treated any different than any other classic game at the time.
Trust me, people care, it just matters who is the subject.
I saw some promotional material from Man-Verses-Snake and who do I see in the pic, BILLY MITCHEL!L ....................Not Tim McVey, not Dwayne Richards, not Enrico Zannetti........nor Rick Carter...I see Billy Mitchell!
It was nice to get kudos from peers and know that I was recgognized the best in the world at something at the time. However, when the subject material becomes profitable, they put in and market who "they" want regurdless of anyone else.
The basic argument is " nobody cares about "you" or what "you" did..............people care about the "other guy" .
I'm paraphrasing, but this is basicly the response I got.
The fame i'm not really interested in. Its nice to be recognized by your peers, but when something I was directly apart of becomes valuble,I didn't expect the people I trusted to stab me in the back and deliberatly write me out of it.
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Well it now looks like I was dead on the money. Not only was I right, but it was worse than I thought. So yes, Dean did not get any worldwide press. This was expected. Dean did not get any Nationwide press. This was also expected. Dean did not get Kataku press. This was expected by some including myself. Dean did not get any Twin Galaxies press. Again I was expecting this. Dean did not get any press from "The Entertainer". Again I was expecting that. What I was not expecting is that the 1.2 million game would not get any attention from the Donkey Kong blogspot. That one surprised me since the 1.2 million was so important in the writings.
So what does this mean? It means that Brian Allen's killscreen MAME game that he failed to submit to Twin Galaxies got more press than Dean's 1.2 million. So my friends it's time to stick your heads in the sand, and pretend this really isn't a problem. See I know one thing. Like most hobbies, most of you are CONFORMISTS. Generally being a conformist is a good thing. But in this situation you wanting to not rock the boat, and keep things copacetic is one of the few times when being a conformist is a bad thing.
I wish there were more people like me who could take a stand and actually speak up when they see something that is completely screwed up to the nth degree.
George, no one ignored what was not presented to them. The score was not submitted to us, therefore it was not verified which, in turn, never appeared as a possible story subject in my email. Twin Galaxies' determination of world records operates on a Referee System, created by Walter Day over 30 years ago. It has been in place as the standard for decades. TG has never operated without it.
It was related to me that Mr. Saglio did not wish to submit it. I honor that choice as well as the remarkable score he put up on MAME. I waited for it to come for adjudication, even wrote up the bulk of the article, before making an inquiry in which I was told he did not want to submit it to Twin Galaxies. Actually wanted no fanfare. Nonetheless, I wrote up a quick piece of info with his contact information and sent it abroad. I received a reply from some that if it was not adjudicated, then it wasn't a story they could use. It being on MAME was also a problem for some. For me, no. But I am not "the world press".
Also know how pop-media sources operate: Kotaku, Game Informer and The Examiner have strict policies their writers must adhere to that have been stiffened over the last year. One is, a breaking story will not be printed after the fact. Meaning, you set a WR then the writer has 48 hours to post it and share it with contacts. Not a week or two. It must be current. So if you sit on news...you loose. Only in rare instances will you ever see this being overturned. It is for this reason, scene writers become quite valuable to the gamer as, if one wants international press, your chances are higher of getting it picked up if your come to them in the first place....and quickly. For what you think might be a shot heard 'round the world, if it originates from an island, cut off from communication outside its home base -which is this how this community often operates- if it's not submitted to us knowledge of it doesn't reach me for days. I cannot constantly be monitoring a single game scene when there are 100s of other gamers and other titles also doing great things. Even so, I give quite a bit of DK coverage, more than anyone these days, and worked on the Press Project for two months that went out to affiliated news sources for national coverage for players at The Kong Off 3.
Classic Gaming is a niche subject, and that niche is small compared to the multi-billion dollar industry that eSport is. Someone could beat the impossible Robotron record tomorrow and, though it would get press for certain, the coverage would not reach the circulation level of fame that a $400K Warcraft tournament winner would receive...or an XBox release...or GTA V that made over a billion dollars in 3 days.
In the case of Brian Allen, you will note if you reread the article again, that the story is about one man's struggle over social adversity to beat a personal goal. Gaming encompasses far more than high scores. In fact, over 90% of its participants are not competitors at all. So for you to indicate rather loosely that I gave way to favoritism is incorrect and rather petty if not hurtful altogether. But that's okay. I've well grown used to it over the years. But dragging Saglio and this fine community into your beef to pick with TG and others over events decades past completely unrelated to anyone on board is unfair.
The owners of Twin Galaxies opens their door to the DK Community every year, by putting on an event that costs tens of thousands of dollars, 1000s of hours of prep and requires the input of numerous people, including the most professional press core it has ever had, and will be present this year. The owners of TG, Richie and Jourdan, don't make money off of it and exploit no one. They do it for the love of gaming. For the thrill of charging old school arcade tournaments back to life again. They do it for the community.
Want to talk about screwed up, George? Why is it one can point fingers at TG and, respectively me -as I do the bulk of the reporting- and make accusations of lack of support, when you don't even support us in the first place? Hmm? How does that work? You seem to expect me to work hard elevating yours and others achievements, but also expect me to accept the fact there is no reciprocation of support or even respect? Just a slap in the face...criticism and blame-games. Not really a fair trade, is it?
Nonetheless, I am thankful for the community who does respect my arduous and passionate efforts, and who do come to me for support and in turn support me. There are more of them than the latter, and in every country. You don't have to like me. But if you can't recognize my passion and dedication then you aren't looking for it.
This is not directed at the DK Community, or any other posters or opinions on this forum other than George's comments.
Please do not take my statement out of context.
-Cat
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Well it now looks like I was dead on the money. Not only was I right, but it was worse than I thought. So yes, Dean did not get any worldwide press. This was expected. Dean did not get any Nationwide press. This was also expected. Dean did not get Kataku press. This was expected by some including myself. Dean did not get any Twin Galaxies press. Again I was expecting this. Dean did not get any press from "The Entertainer". Again I was expecting that. What I was not expecting is that the 1.2 million game would not get any attention from the Donkey Kong blogspot. That one surprised me since the 1.2 million was so important in the writings.
So what does this mean? It means that Brian Allen's killscreen MAME game that he failed to submit to Twin Galaxies got more press than Dean's 1.2 million. So my friends it's time to stick your heads in the sand, and pretend this really isn't a problem. See I know one thing. Like most hobbies, most of you are CONFORMISTS. Generally being a conformist is a good thing. But in this situation you wanting to not rock the boat, and keep things copacetic is one of the few times when being a conformist is a bad thing.
I wish there were more people like me who could take a stand and actually speak up when they see something that is completely screwed up to the nth degree.
George, no one ignored what was not presented to them. The score was not submitted to us, therefore it was not verified which, in turn, never appeared as a possible story subject in my email. Twin Galaxies' determination of world records operates on a Referee System, created by Walter Day over 30 years ago. It has been in place as the standard for decades. TG has never operated without it.
It was related to me that Mr. Saglio did not wish to submit it. I honor that choice as well as the remarkable score he put up on MAME. I waited for it to come for adjudication, even wrote up the bulk of the article, before making an inquiry in which I was told he did not want to submit it to Twin Galaxies. Actually wanted no fanfare. Nonetheless, I wrote up a quick piece of info with his contact information and sent it abroad. I received a reply from some that if it was not adjudicated, then it wasn't a story they could use. It being on MAME was also a problem for some. For me, no. But I am not "the world press".
Also know how pop-media sources operate: Kotaku, Game Informer and The Examiner have strict policies their writers must adhere to that have been stiffened over the last year. One is, a breaking story will not be printed after the fact. Meaning, you set a WR then the writer has 48 hours to post it and share it with contacts. Not a week or two. It must be current. So if you sit on news...you loose. Only in rare instances will you ever see this being overturned. It is for this reason, scene writers become quite valuable to the gamer as, if one wants international press, your chances are higher of getting it picked up if your come to them in the first place....and quickly. For what you think might be a shot heard 'round the world, if it originates from an island, cut off from communication outside its home base -which is this how this community often operates- if it's not submitted to us knowledge of it doesn't reach me for days. I cannot constantly be monitoring a single game scene when there are 100s of other gamers and other titles also doing great things. Even so, I give quite a bit of DK coverage, more than anyone these days, and worked on the Press Project for two months that went out to affiliated news sources for national coverage for players at The Kong Off 3.
Classic Gaming is a niche subject, and that niche is small compared to the multi-billion dollar industry that eSport is. Someone could beat the impossible Robotron record tomorrow and, though it would get press for certain, the coverage would not reach the circulation level of fame that a $400K Warcraft tournament winner would receive...or an XBox release...or GTA V that made over a billion dollars in 3 days.
In the case of Brian Allen, you will note if you reread the article again, that the story is about one man's struggle over social adversity to beat a personal goal. Gaming encompasses far more than high scores. In fact, over 90% of its participants are not competitors at all. So for you to indicate rather loosely that I gave way to favoritism is incorrect and rather petty if not hurtful altogether. But that's okay. I've well grown used to it over the years. But dragging Saglio and this fine community into your beef to pick with TG and others over events decades past completely unrelated to anyone on board is unfair.
The owners of Twin Galaxies opens their door to the DK Community every year, by putting on an event that costs tens of thousands of dollars, 1000s of hours of prep and requires the input of numerous people, including the most professional press core it has ever had, and will be present this year. The owners of TG, Richie and Jourdan, don't make money off of it and exploit no one. They do it for the love of gaming. For the thrill of charging old school arcade tournaments back to life again. They do it for the community.
Want to talk about screwed up, George? Why is it one can point fingers at TG and, respectively me -as I do the bulk of the reporting- and make accusations of lack of support, when you don't even support us in the first place? Hmm? How does that work? You seem to expect me to work hard elevating yours and others achievements, but also expect me to accept the fact there is no reciprocation of support or even respect? Just a slap in the face...criticism and blame-games. Not really a fair trade, is it?
Nonetheless, I am thankful for the community who does respect my arduous and passionate efforts, and who do come to me for support and in turn support me. There are more of them than the latter, and in every country. You don't have to like me. But if you can't recognize my passion and dedication then you aren't looking for it.
This is not directed at the DK Community, or any other posters or opinions on this forum other than George's comments.
Please do not take my statement out of context.
-Cat
Cat, don't support Twin Galaxies? Huh, I do like your posts on Facebook, and give a hearty congratulations to those you spotlight. As far as paying the $25 or $60? Well that's a different story. I just can't really afford to do it at the present moment. If I was making even $25,000 a year I would gladly pay the $25 or $60 fee. If there ever comes a time when I am not struggling, than yeah sure I'll be more than willing to flip the bill.
Cat, here is the thing. And I mean this now. I have received more attention than I have deserved, for my gaming exploits. At one time I cared big time about being recognized, but at some point in thinking about it, I have realized I have gotten a ton of attention, and support. I have been on cards, books, in a newspaper, did a few interviews, and all for playing some really old video games. How cool is that?
Overall I am very supportive of Twin Galaxies, there really have only been two big issues I have with them. Them excluding MAME scores from the Kong Off 3, and the lack of coverage of Dean. But I have to say I do admire your more than adequate response on the issue. You put enough time and effort into this response that you definitely are aware of the situation, and I do believe you made a pre piece for Dean's 1.2 million game.
So thanks for the response, and I am just happy that you addressed this situation. That works for me. 8)
You see my main thing is I regard Dean's accomplishment as arguably the greatest classic gaming accomplishment of all time. I have that much respect for it, and so when I see it remain so underground it feels like this achievement has become a diamond in the ruff. Only those truly in the know will know of the artistry, and pure magic of this game. In my mind it's a work of art right up there with a Picasso or Van Gough masterwork. Yes I hold it in that high of a regard.
Alright I have said my two cents
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Most of the athletes you mentioned in your analogy I imagine would not have spent years and years making many sacrifices, honing their athletic skills if they were not expecting to be compensated for it somewhere down the line. It was your analogy to professional sports, not mine. I play competitively in tournaments every once in awhile which do not really pay much, but I like to hang out with my friends, I don't care if I get attention for it though or not, however this seems to be very important to you.
Maybe I'm unclear as to what the overall issue is. Can you blame me? I'm not the sharpest they come.
First off, again maybe I need to put this in caps for all to see. I HAVE RECEIVED MORE ATTENTION THAN I DESERVE FOR MY GAMING ACHIEVEMENTS!
Second off, people in this hobby have spent years, and years making many sacrifices. People spend thousands of hours, and have made probably even more sacrifices because the money isn't even enough for it to be even a side job. You are incorrect in thinking just because you adapt super quickly to these games that everyone is doing the same thing. Wrong, most people struggle for a decent amount of time before they master a certain game. You are the exception to the rule, but somehow you can't see that.
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psst... hey George! (http://donkeykongblog.blogspot.com/2013/10/saglio-and-benziger-ladders-final-rung.html)
If only I were "the media..." ;D
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Great write up Chris! Enjoyed it.
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psst... hey George! (http://donkeykongblog.blogspot.com/2013/10/saglio-and-benziger-ladders-final-rung.html)
If only I were "the media..." ;D
Very good write up. You are by far the best person who happens to write about something in the classic gaming genre out there, and there are some good ones in the hobby.
Of course you count Chris as the media, and in 10 years time I have a feeling that your story will get more views, than even a Kataku story since Kataku stories get drowned out by other stories. This article though will probably always be one of your top 10 most viewed articles.
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Well, it's up to about 200 views now, which is pretty good for 2 days.
(For comparison, the article about his 1,167 game from last year has over 2,500 views, but that's after 18 months.)
View-wise though, three pages on that blog have more views than everything else combined: the Top 20 list is just about to cross 100K, the World Record History is at 25K, and the big one is the Eminem story, which has 240K (because it got traffic-bombed by Reddit a few times).