Donkey Kong Forum

Streaming => Streaming Events => Topic started by: up2ng on June 05, 2013, 11:38:09 am

Title: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: up2ng on June 05, 2013, 11:38:09 am

Just throwing an idea out there, although I don't want to be the one to try to organize it -- some of you guys are doing an excellent job at that already. I've seen the popularity of the Wildcard Rematch Tournaments and was curious if someone might organize a streaming tournament event that includes everyone?

The obvious way to handle it to make it the most fair is to incorporate some sort of handicapping system. For example, I would propose a system which sets a baseline score at 900,000 points and then everyone whose top score (according to the DKF scoreboard?) is higher than that is handicapped at, say, 80% of the difference between their high score and 900k.

For example, a player with a Personal Best of 850,000 points would enter the tournament with a handicap of "0". Another player with a Personal Best of 1,100,000 points would enter the tournament with a handicap of 0.8 * (1,100,000 - 900,000) = "-160,000". So, if the first player has the game of his life and scores 1,000,000 points during the tournament, the second player would have to score 1,160,000 points to beat him.

What do you guys think?

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: LMDAVE on June 05, 2013, 11:50:59 am

Its funny you brought this up because I was just coming to talk about the new KO3 Wildcard rules that were just posted.

But, It would be cool to be allowed to play in some of these tournament that are going on all yea. We like to compete too :). For the top 12 in the Kong Off, we've been held out of these other tournaments throughout the year. But, even the top 12 have good days and bad days, so someone not in the top 12 could win it also on any given weekend.

Like Dean said, I'm not much of an event organizer either, but it would be cool to have some event that included everyone.

Well, either way, Kong Off 3 dedicated players are going to have to start hyping Kong Off 3 main event. There hasn't been much talk about KO3 main event. Wildcard is going to be stealing the show! ;)

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: xelnia on June 05, 2013, 01:42:36 pm

I like this idea! The Kong Off is obviously a huge main event for the DK community but I think having other tournaments, especially ones that are focused around the DKF, would be great. It would be easier for everyone to be involved, at least. Maybe have a DK Triple Crown competition with DK, DKJR, and DK3? A crap DK tourney with all the bootlegs and knock-offs? Throw D2K in there somewhere?

It might be hard to organize if there is a WCR every other month, but I'm sure it could be worked out. :D

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: Milehighdt on June 05, 2013, 02:46:18 pm

Quote

we've been held out of these other tournaments throughout the year

The No Hammer tournament was open to everyone

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: LMDAVE on June 05, 2013, 03:34:44 pm

Quote from: Milehighdt on June 05, 2013, 02:46:18 pm

Quote
we've been held out of these other tournaments throughout the year

The No Hammer tournament was open to everyone

I was referring to the wildcard tournaments.

No Hammer was cool, but that just a variation only certain players try.

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: danman123456 on June 05, 2013, 09:32:09 pm

Totally open to it. I would be happy to organize something like this but want to make sure that Eric and John are cool and onboard. I still think that if you were in the #9-#12 position you should play in the tournies just in case one of the #1-#9 qualifies for a dedicated machine. You should have a fair chance to post a score versus just being shutout since anyone can try for the Top 12. Play during the time and say "I got 945k - Round 1, etc etc and then you have the potential to play versus having to just try on Friday to make it to the next round. Anything can happen on any given weekend! :D

Also handicapping is not a horrible bad idea and would give EVERYONE a shot at it. Happens in bowling.

Basically goes like this.

Take your top score (It would be better to go top 5 scores but most don't know them). That is your "Handicap score".

This in turn is based on 80% of 900000. So my 768000 score would now get a handicap of 105600 points (132000 *.8) - I get to add this total to any score I post so a 900,000 score would be 1,005,600.

This also gives the 200000 player a real shot as well since they get 560,000 points to add to their score (700000 *.8 = 560,000) - They get a 400000 point game they now have 960,000 score.

I'm a little poor on prize money right now since I got A/C issues but I would offer up something like an Atari 2600 and say 10 carts for first prize! :D

We could make it over a weekend and any score you post needs to be streamed on twitch and all that good stuff but you get from midnight eastern time Sat to 6pm Eastern sun. That gives everyone a good day and a half to play.

Anyone interested. Its just for fun anyway :D

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: stella_blue on June 06, 2013, 03:23:57 am

Quote from: danman123456 on June 05, 2013, 09:32:09 pm

This in turn is based on 80% of 900000. So my 768000 score would now get a handicap of 105600 points (132000 *.8) - I get to add this total to any score I post so a 900,000 score would be 1,005,600.

Congratulations on acquiring one of those modern handheld calculators that correctly subtracts a yellow smiling face wearing sunglasses from any positive integer. Perhaps that could be offered as one of the available prizes.

Just teasing, Dan. I've had a few unintentional smileys show up in the previews of my posts. It's one of the reasons I always use the [Preview] button.

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: Fast Eddie on June 06, 2013, 09:40:58 am

yeah sounds good, there does need to be some online hammer allowed DK comps for everyone to play in...

for one event anyway i think there should be a straight up 'DK Open', no handicaps - just take on the best and see who wins on the day!

this one may be too much of a bitch to organise but ill throw out the idea of a 'DK World Cup'...format would be just like the football world cup...groups drawn with seeded players and round robin matches, then quarters and semis etc...all head to head single game matches, this worked in the no hammer tourney and is a bit of a leveller as upsets are more likely in a one off game...

8)

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: JNugent on June 06, 2013, 09:42:41 am

Quote from: Fast Eddie on June 06, 2013, 09:40:58 am

yeah sounds good, there does need to be some online hammer allowed DK comps for everyone to play in...

for one event anyway i think there should be a straight up 'DK Open', no handicaps - just take on the best and see who wins on the day!

this one may be too much of a bitch to organise but ill throw out the idea of a 'DK World Cup'...format would be just like the football world cup...groups drawn with seeded players and round robin matches, then quarters and semis etc...all head to head single game matches, this worked in the no hammer tourney and is a bit of a leveller as upsets are more likely in a one off game...

8)

This sounds like a great idea, and I'm a player with a current PB of 229,700. DK Open/DK World Cup, call it what you want. I'm in.

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: Milehighdt on June 06, 2013, 12:36:30 pm

I think a DK World Cup sounds great. A bracketed, one game, head to head tournament would be a great viewing experience. You could pull up both streams and track them like a standard sporting event. Both players could start at the same time and view each others stream. Real time strategy could be employed based on how your opponent is doing. When I play I tend to pull up a stream and play that person and it add to the enjoyment of the game for me. :) Unfortunately I don't think the same time thing could be pulled off.

One of the things I like about the WCRs that encourages participation is the multiple bounties and the ability to claim just one. It creates many goals in one tourney with each player able to tailor their game to go after the ones best suited to them. A special badge is just as cool as a $ prize for most of this.

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: danman123456 on June 06, 2013, 01:11:21 pm

Ok go back to here now from the other.

1. There are a lot of ideas on this. All are cool. I think to start just setup BOTH a handicap and straight-up scoring pools. This gives the "pros" a chance to win both settings but gives EVERYONE a real shot at winning versus being stuck at 28th place.

2. Some type of NCAA Bracket/World Cup style tourney would be awesome. Make it a a double elimination format could result in an interesting setup!

3. Perhaps some type of Team format? 2 people team up and you average their total scores per round? Basically a top 12 gets paired? Would be harder to logistic but could be interesting! :D

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: ChrisP on June 06, 2013, 10:52:04 pm

I like the idea of tourneys for everyone.

In fact, one thing I believe needs to happen from now on is that *everyone* who is not a current or former DK world champion or KO champion should have to re-qualify for each new KO by playing out a series of tournies, like the wildcards are gonna be doing.

So Steve Wiebe, Billy Mitchell, Hank, Tim Sczerby, Dean, and Jeff are locked in forever, but everyone else has to be active and put up a score to stay in. And if any of the lock-ins want to play in the tourneys, they can.

... I also think TG should sponsor these!

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: Bliss1083 on June 06, 2013, 11:38:52 pm

I'd love to have a tournament straight up no handicap. Best players to the worst, anyone who enjoys the game. Then see how everyone does. Maybe one of the big time players has a bad day and you beat their high score for the tournament. That would be a good confidence boost. Anything can happen and even the sun shines on a dogs butt somedays.

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: ChrisP on June 06, 2013, 11:49:51 pm

One thing about a no-handicap open is that it would basically have to be no-prize, purely for fun, otherwise you might as well just hand the money to Dean and Jeff. :o

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: tessler1134 on June 09, 2013, 08:29:23 pm

I totally agree and it is something that I wanted to do as well...be sure it will happen in the not too far away future :)

I want a chance to play Vincent to beat him...but he must play with one hand tied behind his back!

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: JohnTheLawnMan on June 12, 2013, 12:16:56 pm

I have a couple ideas how to make it more fun and interesting, since we all know who the top players will be.

Definitely has to be no handicap. Play your best game and see where you rank.

It'll be pretty cool to see a complete tournament ranking. To see who steps up their game and who cracks under the pressure.

I also think many will be surprised at the top 10 in these open tournaments. I'm not convinced the usual suspects will all be there. Way to many good players these days and we all know how the randomness can shut anyone down.

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: danman123456 on June 12, 2013, 04:10:20 pm

Ok so sounds like people prefer a no-handicap straight shooter and let everyone participate. I'm willing to try and coordinate this. Since its a little more open would someone prefer an entire weekend to participate of just the straight up 24 hours winner take all format that has been working for the WCR's? John/Eric mind if we work together on this a little I know you have a lot of experience/ideas for this and I don't want anyone to think I'm stepping on your toe. Would think we should do this soon" but not in direct conflict with any big events or the WCR's. :)

I would say Prize Money is off the table but I might donate to some bounty type settings just to keep it interesting. I might consider putting some older gear up (Atari 2600/7200 carts, Commodore 64's, etc, etc) but just want it to be fun and for some bragging rights if anything. :)

Peace!
Dan

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: Scoundrl on June 12, 2013, 06:58:42 pm

Personally I like the handicap idea and if thats the format that happens I'll kick in a few buck to the prize pool.

-Ken

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: danman123456 on June 12, 2013, 08:39:51 pm

Ken I was thinking about both too. Basically handicap and scratch. It does solve both equations pretty nicely. You get to see how you rank straight up and then with a handicap. It does handle it for both and its all in fun. The only real issue I see with that is how to determine a handicap? Guess the HSL here could be the gauge?

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: up2ng on June 14, 2013, 02:14:14 am

Some cool ideas in discussion have come up within this thread which is great. But, I just want to clarify my original idea.

I was generally responding to the trend that there has been multiple tournaments organized with serious prize money which (somewhat arbitrarily) has excluded the very top players in our game. I'm not really sure how that idea snowballed into such a popular format, but it leaves some of us out that are extremely active in the game. Interestingly, I think someone touched on some of the true motivation already within this thread when they said:

Quote

One thing about a no-handicap open is that it would basically have to be no-prize, purely for fun, otherwise you might as well just hand the money to Dean and Jeff.

Ok, whether or not this is really true in the context of a short tournament is debatable, but if this is how a lot of players feel, then I can see why perhaps participation might be lower if the top players could enter. Obviously, for a major event like the Kong Off(s), there should be no handicap since that's pretty much our championship event for our game. But, for these "side" tournaments that pop up where additional prize money is offered, in order to make it more "fair" and interesting, I think handicapping is a nice compromise.

Keep in mind I'm using the word "compromise" because the whole idea is basically to try to convince tournament organizers to allow the top players to enter these tournaments where we have previously been excluded for whatever reasons.

But anyway, let me clarify my original handicapping idea here:

I was using a baseline score of 900,000 points because in the specific case of Donkey Kong, that's approximately the score that can be reached by hitting the killscreen without going out of your way to do any additional point pressing beyond just using the top hammer on the barrel screens, which most players do anyway for safety reasons and because it requires almost no additional effort beyond skipping it.

*** Players with a top score BELOW 900,000 points should NOT be handicapped! ***

There are several reasons for this. Players with scores under 900,000 points simply have not played the game anywhere near as much as players with scores over 900,000 points in general. So, just by virtue of playing the game just a little bit more their scores will improve dramatically. The main reason for that is because it's just a matter of progressing a bit further into the game in order to improve their scores which could happen at any moment, including during a tournament.

However, achieving scores beyond 900,000 requires more and more strategy, knowledge and skill in point pressing the game. The effort required for every additional 100 points earned beyond 900,000 goes up exponentially, not linearly. Because of this, I feel like the large pool of players who are kill screen players or near kill screen players feel like perhaps they just would not be able to keep up with the top players in a tournament so the solution has been to just exclude the top players. So, my solution instead is to handicap the top players to create "a more even playing field" between players who can point press the game and players who are not there yet. But in no way does it make sense to me to just hand a 200,000 point player the tournament by shipping him a huge amount of points so that if he has any sort of break out personal best game he wins the whole tournament -- I mean, we're still competing here right? Let's reward high scores and not go TOO crazy with handicapping.

So, if 10 players enter the tournament, it would go like this:

Player A: PR of 250,000 (handicap 0)
Player B: PR of 500,000 (handicap 0)
Player C: PR of 750,000 (handicap 0)
Player D: PR of 850,000 (handicap 0)
Player E: PR of 900,000 (handicap 0)
Player F: PR of 950,000 (handicap -40,000)
Player G: PR of 1,000,000 (handicap -80,000)
Player H: PR of 1,050,000 (handicap -120,000)
Player I: PR of 1,100,000 (handicap -160,000)
Player J: PR of 1,150,000 (handicap -200,000)

So, I hope that helps clear up what I was suggesting and the ideas behind my suggestion. Of course, anyone who is willing to put up prize money and go through the trouble of organizing great events for our community can do it however they wish. But, I just wanted to point out that some of us have been left out and I hope that there might be some future tournaments besides just "Wild Card" events. Don't get me wrong -- I think the Wild Card events have been great, and it's especially interesting that it seems to have morphed into a way for many players to try to qualify into the Wild Card division at Kong Off events, which I think is great. But hopefully we'll see some other events here soon where we can all compete.

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: TheSunshineFund on June 14, 2013, 06:25:12 am

All the major Classic Gaming Tournaments throughout the year are always well attended despite the fact that the same names seem to continue to take home prize moneys. I would never want anyone excluded from any tournament I entered or for it to be handicapped in any way, at that point I'm not being fair to myself in assessing my results in addition to penalizing other players for their past efforts in advancing their scores. For example, I once played in a tournament called the Donald Hayes Challenge which I paid an entry fee for and in which Donald also competed in and it consisted of his favorite games. In essense, I paid money to play in a tournament against arguably the best CAG player in the world, on games he helped choose and where he was able to compete and collect first place money. Of course I want him to play, that's the competitive spirit. I finished a close second and was happy about it but had I won and he not competed I would not have been nearly as satisfied. IMO, It's still a hobby, it really shouldn't have the vast number of caviats that a professional career does and given that the population is so small to begin with, tightening the potential entries even further seems counterproductive to me.

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: LMDAVE on June 14, 2013, 08:52:59 am

Quote from: up2ng on June 14, 2013, 02:14:14 am

So, if 10 players enter the tournament, it would go like this:

Player A: PR of 250,000 (handicap 0)
Player B: PR of 500,000 (handicap 0)
Player C: PR of 750,000 (handicap 0)
Player D: PR of 850,000 (handicap 0)
Player E: PR of 900,000 (handicap 0)
Player F: PR of 950,000 (handicap -40,000)
Player G: PR of 1,000,000 (handicap -80,000)
Player H: PR of 1,050,000 (handicap -120,000)
Player I: PR of 1,100,000 (handicap -160,000)
Player J: PR of 1,150,000 (handicap -200,000)

Let's look at the top 3 results of WC#2 and apply this:

Donkey Kong Wildcard Rematch #2 Final Scoreboard

1. Ross Benziger: 990,100
2. Jeff Wolfe: 973,100
3. Phil Tudose: 969,500

Ross' score would now become 950,100
Jeff Wolfe would be 933,100
Phil T would be 889,500 (since he's a million+ player)

Dean, you would have to get 1.15M to win the tournament with your handicap base on these results, I think that's a lot to ask.

The chances of match your own PR is, like you said, exponentially hard as the PR goes up. So, the handicap has to taper a little there I would think.

In fact, I would have "0" handicap for under 1 million because that's what the WC was anyway.

Player G: PR of 1,000,000 (handicap -40,000)
Player H: PR of 1,050,000 (handicap -70,000)
Player I: PR of 1,100,000 (handicap -100,000)
Player J: PR of 1,150,000 (handicap -120,000)

But, if you are willing to play with your previous odds, then I would think they would buy into that.

And of course the PR would have to be your PR before the tournament, just so if you get a new PR and throws you in a new category you don't get hit with a new handicap.

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: stella_blue on June 14, 2013, 10:46:51 am

Quote from: LMDAVE on June 14, 2013, 08:52:59 am

In fact, I would have "0" handicap for under 1 million because that's what the WC was anyway.

Player G: PR of 1,000,000 (handicap -40,000)
Player H: PR of 1,050,000 (handicap -70,000)
Player I: PR of 1,100,000 (handicap -100,000)
Player J: PR of 1,150,000 (handicap -120,000)

Dave, I think Dean is suggesting a handicap = 80% x ( Personal Best - Baseline Score )

In your revised scenario, the "new" baseline score becomes 1 million, so:

Player G:	PR of 1,000,000 (handicap 0)
Player H:	PR of 1,050,000 (handicap -40,000)
Player I:	PR of 1,100,000 (handicap -80,000)
Player J:	PR of 1,150,000 (handicap -120,000)

I agree that the baseline should be higher, if a handicap system is employed (although I maintain a strong preference for a "straight up" tournament format).

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: danman123456 on June 14, 2013, 11:16:41 am

Does anyone here have any experience playing in handicap sporting events/leagues or tournaments? The entire concept of handicapping is so that anyone has at least a chance to win. I understand what everyone is saying about just make it a straight up do your best and if you lose well then you lose. I am all for that but but I also get what Dean and Ken are saying to.

I think its perfect in this setup to have both. A score with your handicap and then your straight up score. It shouldn't be that hard to manage. I'll get some particulars around it and go from there. I think it will be a fun time for all who want to be involved and puts a little friendly pressure on everyone :)

Dan

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: up2ng on June 14, 2013, 11:49:16 am

I'm vaguely familiar with golf where they use a baseline score of par and players slightly worse than that are given stroke bonuses equal to 80% of the difference between par and their recent good scores. Players who score under par are not further penalized AND handicapping only applies up to 32 over par. So, for example, a player who shoots 180 is not given 100 strokes, but only the max of 80% of 32. The best players are still the favorites but it is more even.

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: LMDAVE on June 14, 2013, 01:12:46 pm

The most easiest concept of handicapping, is first pick a baseline score, then for the players with an advantage, pick what is their most likely score (and if you want to use PR then use it), then subtract off how much to get that score to the baseline, that is their handicapp.

If you pick baseline of 980K, then Dean would be a around a -187K

If would recommend a baseline for 980K, but for anyone over 1.1M, to just cap it a -120K

I personally wouldn't use PR since it doesn't happen tht offer for over 1m

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: homerwannabee on June 14, 2013, 01:22:59 pm

Personally I am dead set against handicaps, and think they are completely against what competition stands for. I don't want to win ANY tournament that way.

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: JCHarrist on June 14, 2013, 01:35:11 pm

How about just have a tourney that is the opposite of the Wildcard tourney and only allow 1M+ players to enter? It could be the online version of the KO.

I wouldn't mind sitting one out to watch the big guns battle it out all day.

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: mikegmi2 on June 14, 2013, 01:44:04 pm

Yea, mark me down for no handicaps. I'd rather try beating someone straight up.

"Come on, let's play."

~Steve Sanders~

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: LMDAVE on June 14, 2013, 01:57:20 pm

I'm for no handicap also.

Jeff, problem with a KO type event is the majority of the TOP 12 don't stream and some don't even visit this message board.

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: JCHarrist on June 14, 2013, 03:23:11 pm

Quote from: LMDAVE on June 14, 2013, 01:57:20 pm

I'm for no handicap also.

Jeff, problem with a KO type event is the majority of the TOP 12 don't stream and some don't even visit this message board.

Quite a few people learned how to stream because of the Wildcard Rematch Tourneys.

12 of the 16 1M+ players on the DKF list are active members here and Billy Mitchell and Tim Szcerby would be the only 2 that I don't know how to contact.

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: LMDAVE on June 14, 2013, 03:54:51 pm

Quote from: JCHarrist on June 14, 2013, 03:23:11 pm

Quote from: LMDAVE on June 14, 2013, 01:57:20 pm
I'm for no handicap also.

Jeff, problem with a KO type event is the majority of the TOP 12 don't stream and some don't even visit this message board.

Quite a few people learned how to stream because of the Wildcard Rematch Tourneys.

12 of the 16 1M+ players on the DKF list are active members here and Billy Mitchell and Tim Szcerby would be the only 2 that I don't know how to contact.

Yeah, I was mainly pointing that the people who weren't allow in WC (top 12), majority don't stream. Hardly ever, or not likely

KO2 Contestants who stream:

Dean: Yes
Hank: Hardly ever
Vince: It's been a while, but would probably do something for a tournament.
Jeff: Yes
Steve W: Not likely
Billy: Not Likely
Mark: Yes
Shaun: He plays regularly, but not sure if he streams.
Dave M: Yes
Kyle G: Not Likely
Ben: Allowed in WC
Eric H: Eligible for WC but hasn't been playing much

Not saying the other wont stream, just basing it on recent stream activity mainly in 2013.

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: danman123456 on June 14, 2013, 03:59:53 pm

Wow I love the competitive spirit but wow I do see some real bias towards handicaps here. :)
This isn't the PBA Championship/Masters or Kong-Off we are talking about here. Think of this as a Pro-Am. Should an amateur not be allowed to win a Pro-Am because he was using a handicap? Of course not. Let's not be so serious here everyone. :)

1. Everyone needs to stream to participate just like the WC events. It's not hard to setup and a lot of Top 12 players do already.
2. Have a category for both scores. How you place via Handicap and how you place in the "serious" Straight up division.

It's all in fun and I think we can even get some prizes wrapped around it for everyone. Come on what have you got to lose? :D

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: xelnia on June 14, 2013, 04:01:08 pm

I'd like to offer the perspective of a player who's best is only 415k and has yet to even make it even halfway through the game (almost! 11-6!):

Why not, instead of handicapping, create a tier-based tournament? I would set it up as follows:

Tier 1: 1M+ players
Tier 2: 900k and/or KS players
Tier 3: Everyone else

A cut-off date before the tournament would be established and players could decide which tier they want to compete in by that date. Players can only choose to compete in tier at or above their current level. There is no way I could ever compete with Dean or any other 1M+ player at this point and I don't want my own score to be handicapped in a way that would misrepresent my own skill level (though my current score would fall into the 0 handicap level).

This method automatically pits all the 1M+ against each other and they'll have to decide the appropriate strategy for them: shoot for 1.1M? Stick with a score around their PB? etc.

Tier 2 players can decide if they would rather play within their own comfort level or play balls-to-wall and join the 1M+ tier. I don't believe this puts Tier 3 players at any sort of disadvantage since players of that level are probably still playing with enough inconsistency. Besides, Tier 3 might be a more "exciting" Tier to watch due to that inconsistency. A Tier 3 player is more than welcome to compete in Tier 1 or Tier 2, but the results are predictable.

Once a player chooses a tier, they are locked in at the cutoff date. Any Tier 2 or Tier 3 scores that overlap the higher tiers at the end of tournament are NOT considered "higher" scores than those of other tiers.

Let's say the tournament plays out like this:

Tier 1:
Player A: 1.1M
Player B: 1.05M
Player C: 995K

Tier 2:
Player D: 1.00M
Player E: 900K
Player F: 870K

Tier 3:
Player G: 875K
Player H: 600K
Player I: 500K

In this example, Player D has a higher score than Player C, but by choosing to play in Tier 2 Player D will win that tier. A similar situation occurs with Player F vs. Player G. Remember, players can only choose to join a tier at or ABOVE their current best. Player C would have been at 1M+ before the tournament and therefore should have a higher expectation to gain a 1M+ score. Player D would have had a PB below 1M prior to the tournament and gets rewarded for having the game of his life.

I believe a setup like this offers the right balance of risk-vs-reward for players of all levels. Players like Ethan and Corey are killscreeners and inching ever closer to 1M. They could choose to compete in Tier 2 and have a good shot of winning that Tier, or they could risk a Tier 1 entry and see how they stack up. Players like Danman, Shane, and Allen (oh yer) are inching ever closer to killscreens and could have a shot at winning Tier 3, but maybe they want to join Tier 2 and win it with their first killscreen. Other players have yet to reach 900k or a killscreen but are now playing a point-pressing style. They also could have a break-out game and win Tier 2.

Rewards and bounties can be scaled for the different Tiers, if need be.

At the end of the day, we all know Tier 1 players are the best. We don't need a tournament to sort that out. But creating an environment where players of all levels have a chance to succeed will be best for the community.

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: marinomitch13 on June 14, 2013, 04:35:31 pm

My vote would be no handicap, but I'm kinda liking the tier idea.

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: danman123456 on June 14, 2013, 04:46:05 pm

Interesting concept with the "Tier" setup. Basically tho we are talking 3 different tournaments. Yes its insane to think someone who has 200k PB is going to even come close to winning with no-handicap. I really like the concept of having both count. Basically that gives you Tier - A and then a Tier B/C all at the same time. It's all how you perceive it. Tiers in this scenario are really nothing more then "reverse" handicapping by saying "You are too good to play here" go to Tier A only aren't they?

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: ChrisP on June 15, 2013, 01:07:58 am

I'm wary about a handicap system, for a lot of reasons, but the tier thing is definitely intriguing! That's the direction to move toward, I think...

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: tessler1134 on June 15, 2013, 04:31:38 pm

ATTENTION !!! :o

Important new announcement: https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=327.0 (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=327.0)

8)

Title: Re: Streaming Tournament for Everyone?
Post by: corey.chambers on June 23, 2013, 07:45:43 pm

I think that Xelnia has a good idea. Allow me to propose a structure for a tournament that I had been thinking about lately. It is more based on the model used in Chess Tournaments. Let's say about 50 people all payed in about $10 for registration. That would give about $500 to spread around. We could have a structure like this. Each division would be based upon the players present score on the High Score List. And, yes, hopefully people are not going to be sitting on any good scores just to get into a lower division. Update your scores when they come and be honest about it.

1) 1.1M to 1.2M
First: $35
Second: $20
Third: $15
2) 1M to 1.09K
First: $35
Second: $20
Third: $15
3) 900K to 999K
First: $35
Second: $20
Third: $15
4) 600K to 899K
First: $35
Second: $20
Third: $15
5) 400K to 599K
First: $35
Second: $20
Third: $15
6) 200K to 399K
First: $35
Second: $20
Third: $15
7) 0 to 199K
First: $35
Second: $20
Third: $15

Obviously this is just an idea for a structure. This is more like what Chess tournaments do which I like. That is, you are ranked together with people of similar skill and then you can compete with just those people in a single division. Since it only costs $10 to get in, everyone would have a chance to win an equal amount of money no matter what division you are in. And since we don't just have one or maybe just two people putting up money, we are all contributing to the pot. $10 is not really a lot, and given the potential of maybe only having three people registered in your division, you may already be guaranteed money... though not sure how to address these cases due to lack of participation unless they get put together with another division and you spread the money out over the top six scores there. It may take different forms based on who was registered and it would take some time and effort on the part of one or two people to manage, or even more, if we rotate perhaps. Chess people have tournaments like this almost twice a month if you know where to go for the next tournament in the area. It is not a lot of money to win, but it makes it fun, and it pushes us to do better in the heat of competition, and to move up into higher divisions as time goes on, like Chess Ratings. Though maybe a rating system can be created to based on our high score and is modified based on tournament scores. That way, if one personals high score is a freak of nature, they will slowly drift to a lower level helping them get a chance. Obviously I don't expect people to exploit this and purposely do badly in tournaments because after all it costs $10, lol. Just an idea. I know that we have a lot of number type people that could have a lot of fun with a rating system, and monthly tournaments that we can all play at and enjoy. Any thoughts?