Donkey Kong Forum
Donkey Kong Strategy => Basic Donkey Kong Strategy => Topic started by: naujoks on January 27, 2019, 12:12:33 am
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I need some serious help with those springs.
I've sifted through all the technical information, scores of scientific data with charts and numbers, but in reality it's no help to me.
I watched many videos. There's a lot of guys there scoring highly by doing the "wait for a long spring" and run thing, but I think they were just lucky. When I do this, 80% of the times it works, but it still means I'm dead long before Level 7.
I also saw some of the masters getting up the ladder on a short spring - how does that even work?
Dean says he's watching the entry arc, with peripheral vision. Even when looking at the springs directly, the difference in the arc is not easily made out. And where do you stop to assess the situation? When I'm even just one step up the ladder and my eyes dart from the right to the left and by the time I found out I need to go back to the safe spot, it's already too late.
I think my reaction time and general skills are good enough to crack this, but right now I'm stuck. Any help greatly appreciated!
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So I'm no expert on the matter, but if you are not in a rush and are willing to follow this advice it will get the job done.
Basically... I'll skip the first part of getting up the ladder and across to the safe zone, I'll assume you have that part sorted. If not, let me know....
What you want to do is wait for the longest spring and soon as it goes over your head start running to the right.
As soon as you start running, dart your eyes back over to the left side and watch the incoming spring... if it's short, keep going, if its long like the one you just left on... then hike it back ASAP.
With time you will read this stuff and basically only make mistakes when you are tired.
You should try a MAME savestate for practice.
What you should be able to do is walk Mario up the ladder without having to look at him.
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Thanks for the reply, I just practiced your suggestion for a bit, but it doesn't work: If I wait at the bottom of the stairs even for a split second, while I'm looking to the springs on the left, there's not enough time to get up the ladder, even if it's a short spring.
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You need to be looking over there from the moment you step away.
You should know your decision before the spring has fallen, the window of opportunity is small though. Are you playing on your TV? Or a PC? Can you get closer to the screen? If you're on a TV can you switch on game mode or PC mode?
You won't have time to stop and look, you should always be moving either towards and up or running back. If you have stood still, you are already dead unless you know your stuff.
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At the moment I'm playing on MAME on my PC, but my cabinet will arrive next week :)
I'll experiment some more.
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No, I'm still missing something here. By the time I start running when a long spring came, in the second it takes for the next spring to show, I'm already one step up the ladder. There won't be time to move back. and as we know, stopping even just briefly doesn't work either.
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I do something a little bit more unconventional with the springs. I look for the distance between the two springs. If the distance is great I make a run for it. If the distance is short I stay. But of course only look for the distance between the two springs when you first get a long one. Not for the short ones. So for instance here's an example.
Short: I I That's a no go.
Long: I I Yep, you run on that.
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My 2¢ I never watch Jumpman. Or the ladder I focus on the springs only. After a while you will get used to it. You can be half way up the ladder and still make it back to the safe spot it just takes practice.
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Nobody of the masters ever seems to wait ON a ladder - there just wouldn't be enough time to climb down. Is that a given?
If you look at this video: at 00:39:03 he's not even waiting in a classical safe spot. How did he know it's ok to run up?
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I made these videos a while back for a friend of mine where I show in a lot of detail how I was doing the springs: https://www.twitch.tv/collections/3fUP7rvVeBWvXQ. I now do them a little different and am much more aggressive than what I say in these videos. I discuss how to be more aggressive and how to be safer. I just watched a little and they are a bit rambling a cringy, but they may help. I don't think there is any outright bad or wrong information.
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naujoks, the very best are able to make their way to the top with muscle memory or a quick glance. Their real concentration is on the springs, and they can see in their side vision where the incoming springs are bouncing. They're able to identify short and long springs while maintaining movement towards the top. If you can do save states for a few hours, you'll start to get a feel for watching both places at the same time.
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He waited there because a medium spring came. The next spring after that was a short so he knew it was ok to run up. Just takes time you can run up from the right side even but that is risky. Best answer is just takes time to get the feel for it.
Nobody of the masters ever seems to wait ON a ladder - there just wouldn't be enough time to climb down. Is that a given?
If you look at this video: at 00:39:03 he's not even waiting in a classical safe spot. How did he know it's ok to run up?
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It’s probably the skill that takes the longest to learn and once you have it you’ll be good. Even the best still get caught occasionally. There is a more advanced method going to the ladder from the right but I have no experience with that.
You will eventually be able to make a run for it and get jumpman to the ladder and start ascending without looking at him at all. It takes time but the more you play the more you will adapt to it. You start to recognize the arcs of the springs and know how they’re entering the screen. I have days where I die on the spring level several times and days where I never die on it.
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It’s probably the skill that takes the longest to learn and once you have it you’ll be good. Even the best still get caught occasionally. There is a more advanced method going to the ladder from the right but I have no experience with that.
I am also having trouble with the springs and am interested in the other method from the right. Is there any instructions regarding that method anywhere?
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I am also having trouble with the springs and am interested in the other method from the right. Is there any instructions regarding that method anywhere?
Going from the right is MUCH harder. There's more combos (20 if you don't count the "sometimes" combos) you can go on from the left than there is from the right. Its much easier to time going from the left too since you're travelling with the spring rather than against it
Here's the rundown from Spring Theory (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=492.0). Read this topic if you want a deep understanding of the spring stage. Its a long read but definitely worth it imo
(http://i.imgur.com/e0YqGIf.png)
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I hope this will help you, as I remember having the same difficulty in the beginning; here is what I do and I almost never loose a man on the springs unless I get sloppy.
I come up the ladder and move a tad left, wait for a short and immediately run to the right side of ladder and pause for it to go over ur head then run to second safe spot. (You know if springs are short or long by watching were they land in relation to the yellow girder mark on the floor where the elevators come out. A short will land on the far left of the yellow platform mark. The second safe spot is defined by being in the yellow with at least one foot in the yellow, and you won’t be hit.)
Once in the second safe spot stand at the very right edge of the yellow, keeping a foot in the yellow, wait for a long. It will be a long if the right bottom portion of the spring touched the right portion of the elevator shaft/yellow marking. As soon as I see a spring hit that mark I IMMEDIATELY run to the ladder and pause a minute second when my body is just touching the ladder; this quick pause is necessary to let the spring go over u as you have beat it to the ladder since you ran as soon as u saw it hit the correct yellow mark. I find it more difficult to wait in the safe zone for that long to go completely over my head to begin the run, instead I’m already now at the left of the ladder when it arrives. During this very quick pause, look back at the next spring and see what’s coming, at the same time the long spring has cleared you so by muscle memory I hit the joystick right and up as fast as possible and Mario will “round up†the ladder making the accent faster.... and my eyes are still looking back left to see where that spring hits. If the following spring is short to medium I just keep my ascent going, if it’s long, I pull down then left to get off the ladder and run back left to safety. Then the process starts over until successful.
Once your more advanced at this instead of retreating on a second long spring back down the ladder and back to the yellow safe areas you will learn that u only need to retreat just to the left of the pailine ladder where you had paused before in your initial ascent, immediately go back up the ladder when that second long clears your head and begin the ending cycle to be sure the next spring is short as your are now already on the ladder. This way you never retreat all the way back to the yellow, you instead keep just inside the ladder while long springs clear u and u run on the first short to medium. Again this part of it is advanced; at first just run back to the yellow and start the process again. Dealing with 2 or 3 long springs while not being in the yellow safe area takes advanced skills and lots of practice.
Hope that helps.
Lastly, you may want to download the donkey Kong training/practice rom where you can slow down the springs and see there numbered lengths displayed above each spring from 1 to 16; you can find that rom on the forums.
Good luck
Tim
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Here's a video of the above.
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Using the approach of wait for a long, run towards the ladder, go up on a short, I’ve recently changed to judging the follow-up spring as soon as it enters the screen. It allows a bit more time to react and do what you’ve got to do.
If it enters relatively high, I know it will be short, so I go. If it enters low on the screen, it will be long, so I retreat.