Donkey Kong Forum
General Donkey Kong Discussion => General Donkey Kong Discussion => Topic started by: homerwannabee on March 08, 2013, 06:37:47 am
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That is about how I feel right now. My 347,300 score is not where I am at. I really believe I am now closer to a 500,000 point player. I just have had an extremely bad run of luck when I get deep into the game. For instance getting to Level 5 now without a single death is not a big deal. I have done that on numerous occasions. Heck getting to Level 7 with 3 men left is starting to become a frequent occurrence. But then eventually it happens. Either the spring level gives me 6 or 7 straight springs that are not of the short variety, or the Rivet level will completely overwhelm the left side of the screen with fireballs, or the Pie Factory will not only not allow a free pass but somehow jam me up even while waiting on the bottom. Or the Barrel stage gives me an insane combination of barrels that all my steering still can not overcome. I am left thinking in situations like these "How is this possible?" How can a game go against the odds so much as to kill me goes beyond my levels of comprehension. I am now having games where I think, there is almost nobody alive that could overcome this viciousness the game is spewing out at me. I feel like getting a lottery ticket because maybe that will even out my horrendous luck with this game.
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I've always felt a better indication of how good you are is your average score, not your high score. Try playing say 10 consecutive games... no restarts... and see what your average is.
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lol, welcome to donkey kong homer...
8)
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Phil Tudose and Ross and probably the 2 people that their high scores is definitely not as high as what they are capable of.
Personally, people think that a 1,135,900 is a very good high score, but personally, I know I'm better than this score. I've personally come to a point where anything below 1.15m is nothing that good (for an experienced player, obviously!). A 1.15m pace should be achievable on every single game, even with the worst randomness ever, when you point press well. 1,135,900, in my opinion, is the results of way too much wasted points, and I know I can do better than that.
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Honestly, George, you are at the level of play in DK where the game will feel exactly like all your deaths are un-survivable screwings. I remember when my best was 370K, I thought I was playing perfectly, but despite all I could do that all 4 of my deaths were always unavoidable. However, I guarantee you, as your knowledge of the game and comfortability with tough situations increases, you will find that actually 2-3 of your deaths are very likely avoidable! I know it seems crazy, but keep at it, and eventually many of these 'insurmountable' situations you will learn to overcome. :)
P.s. For experts, many deaths are ultimately caused by either rushing or not thinking ahead (which are kinda the same thing) -not simply not reacting properly or quickly enough. For each death, always check to see if your *method* for the particular screen could have been the problem. Maybe there was a crucial barrel you could have steered, or a better route for the rivets or conveyors that would have made it a lot easier.
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The more you play, the more you'll be better at calculating probabilities on survival vs. death when there are screwing. When you start playing, you don't calculate probabilities very accurately, and that's why you often think some deaths were unavoidable. It's all about being efficient at seeing the probabilities of survival/death of each action, to each situation.
Like Mitch said, out of 4 deaths, once you will be very good at recognizing good probabilities versus bad probabilities, 3 deaths out of 4 will be avoidable.
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I've always felt a better indication of how good you are is your average score, not your high score. Try playing say 10 consecutive games... no restarts... and see what your average is.
That's the thing. I played 25 consecutive games in 3 different periods of time, and this is where I get that my score should be higher.
Remember this thread you posted in? https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=86.0 (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=86.0)
First time out I passed 393 boards, and now last time out I pass 598 boards. That is over a 52 percent increase, and yet despite getting a 301,800 score the first time doing this calculation, my score has not increased 52 percent. It's increased 15 percent over 301,800. A 52 percent increase from that score would be 458,700. That did not happen.
The reason being is the game has literally screwed me over for my skill level. I think I will stream in a bit, and you will all see how the game literally is screwing me over if I am my usual unlucky self.
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Yeah, if you are almost at 350k, it is definitely time to start streaming! Kind, honest peer-critique is always very helpful for improving!
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OK, and a live is what I am doing until 9:15 P.M. Eastern time 6:15 P.M. Pacific time!
http://www.justin.tv/dk3champ (http://www.justin.tv/dk3champ)
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OK, give me my peer review! ;D As you can see this game is making me exasperated. Sometimes I really believe that this game has it out for me. Eventually though a game is going to really go my way, and I am going to score big time! 8)
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It is most definitely possible to "run bad" in Donkey Kong. For example, I go through periods of dozens of games where I'll get a free pass on conveyors maybe 1 time in 15, and the rest will just be agonizing. Then I'll snap out of it and have mild conveyors for a while. Rivets can be streaky too, as can a rash of climby fireballs on barrel screens. It all comes and goes.
Having said that, Mitch is right about the game, mixed with your brain, being extremely prone to spinning the illusion of bad luck, especially for those who haven't gotten it dialed yet. We all went through this and, when looking at our games in retrospect, can see that we weren't actually as unlucky as we thought. We just didn't know what we didn't know! Then you gotta factor in selective memory, etc.
The truth is somewhere between the two - it's almost always less bad luck than you think, but more bad luck than anyone else will give you credit for. ;)
As for the question of this thread, I feel that, due to the inevitability and regularity of totally no-fault deaths, and the fact that everyone has momentary little boneheaded brainfart screwups that they simply can't 100% prevent, just about *everyone* is better than their high score indicates when it comes to pure skill. And it becomes even more true the higher your pace. (Higher pace = more randomness.)
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And sometime, luck/bad luck can play a huge influence on your amount of deaths.
Like personally, for example, if I played a conveyer screen perfectly, I can still end up dying without being able to do anything.
And Allen could play the SAME exact conveyer, and finish the level without dying, because of the luck factor (since he did some stupid/risky moves, but he got lucky) ;).
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I think I figured it out. My problem is this. I get into a rhythm, and eventually the game will kill me where there is nothing I can do about it. At those moments I lose my cool, and it's much easier for me to die. I need to take the uncontrollable deaths more in stride, and remain focused.
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I've always felt a better indication of how good you are is your average score, not your high score. Try playing say 10 consecutive games... no restarts... and see what your average is.
It's "How High Can You Get?", not "What's your average?". Get high.
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Taken from another forum...
'The Poker Mindset' that there are 4 levels of thinking.
Level 1 = Anger. Player is unable to control emotions and experiences anger and tilt when losing pot/s. Causes them to play worse trying to win their chips back.
Level 2 = Frustration. Frustrated players understand the realities of poker, they just haven't accepted them yet. They will often think about the "if onlys" of the hand.
Level 3 - Acceptance. Player understand that the game contains a lot of short-term luck. They will still be pleased when they win a big pot and displeased when they lose one. They have just learned to put short-term results in perspective and concentrate on what is important.
Level 4 - Indifference. Player is focused ONLY on making correct decisions. They seperate themselves from the money that they are playing for and use their thoughts to be considering what can be learned from the hand and reading their opponents for tells.
I believe this applies to DK as well. Ask yourself what category Vince, Hank and Saglio are in.. then ask yourself what category you are in.
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I do agree with that, Leo.
90% of the time, I play with Anger and Frustration.
But 10% of the time, like when I did my 1,135,900 high score, I was playing with Acceptance and Indifference ;).
Reaching a new personal best by being in a good state of mind will take 5x less time instead of when you can't control your emotions!
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I find I play way worse when I am "actively thinking" about decisions. This approach worked in the first 2 months of my game, but now not so much.
Fact is, the decisions should come naturally out of your aliveness as an intelligent organism. You can't tap into that deep muscle memory and intelligence if you're blocking out it with your chaotic thoughts.
Since I have been hitting the 100k mark more often, I am already making my state of mind the priority over my technical skillset, and I would recommend anyone who is not doing this, to try it. I was stuck at 110k for a few weeks, and now I am cracking it almost every day.
I believe Allen would killscreen pretty quickly if he was able to calm his mind. Anyone who gets 500k clearly has the technical know-how. It's just a matter of making it flower in its ideal efficiency.
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Man, April 2011.... I get into DK to escape poker, and then poker follows me to DK!
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I do agree with that, Leo.
90% of the time, I play with Anger and Frustration.
But 10% of the time, like when I did my 1,135,900 high score, I was playing with Acceptance and Indifference ;).
Reaching a new personal best by being in a good state of mind will take 5x less time instead of when you can't control your emotions!
So, let's summarize, and add one more statistic:
10 = % of the time you can control your emotions while playing DK
00 = % of the time you can control your emoticons (those Twitch TV face icons) while watching someone else play DK
You might argue that the 0% number should be 100%, depending on how you define "control". :)
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I definitely feel like I don't usually play to my potential. I always feel like I can ks the game anytime, but I tend to make my own mistakes. The game doesn't usually beat me anymore, it's usually me beating myself. I know that I can put up a score around the 1.13-1.15 range, as I have had many games on that pace, but again beat myself either due to being to greedy in some situations, or just flat out not focused due to fatigue. I know my current high score is nowhere near what I will end up with, but like everybody else said, it takes time, practice, and more time to get your score where you want it.
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Looking at your #'s from the other thread, your high score should be 430K. Don't ask me how I came up with that #, it's based on some fuzzy statistics. So you're right, your high score is not reflective of your skill level. My guess is you have not played out enough full games at your current skill level, hence your high score is lagging behind. Either that or Allen Staal stole all your luck. "If all these balls have bounced in my favor... there is some poor bastard out there..."
My first or 2nd post to the old TG forums was directly related to this. It was about survival percentages, average scores, and your chances of reaching the killscreen. I really hope it's archived somewhere. I seem to remember your survival needs to be about 93-94%, average score at least 300-400K to have a realistic shot.
The difference between average and high score is that you can improve your high score without improving your skill level by playing more games. BUT you cannot improve your average without improving your skill level no matter how many games you play.
Unrelated, but this reminds me of something Don Hayes told me when I was learning Centipede and stuck in the 300-400K range. He said your high score will not improve for a while, even though you are improving. He was right.
It's "How High Can You Get?", not "What's your average?". Get high.
Yeah, agreed, the whole point is to get high in Denver.
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I'm just waiting for Steve Sanders to pipe in here and say, "Yeah, my score is lower than my actual skill level. I should actually have about 5.3 million!"
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What is it about that 300-450K area?
So many people get stuck there for the longest time, and once they break out of it, they go pretty much directly to the kill screen.
Well, except for one guy... ;D But seriously, Mitch is definitely the poster child for this thread. If anybody is WAY overdue for a kill screen, it's him.
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Haha, honestly, yeah, I could get a 900kish KS pretty easy. It's just that, as soon as I realized I could get a killscreen with enough attempts, I just decided up my pace. I really feel no need to prove to myself or others that I can actually get one, when I am honestly reasonably sure I could if I wanted too. I don't know, I just feel like getting a 900k KS would do nothing for me, as I would just want to beat it the very next game. I guess I'm kinda like Dean in that now that I know I have the skills down for a big score, I wanna play at a high pace from here on out. It's only in these mini-kong-offs, where money is on the line, that I might contemplate playing at a significantly lower pace (first KS bounty, longest first/last man bounties, etc).
Does anyone else feel this way?
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yes i am exactly the same, i scored 860k well over a year ago so i feel i am overdue a k/s...but i just dont have any motivation to play for a low k/s anymore...
i did run boards for a few games a while back and enjoyed it, but im just not bothered, mostly if i want to change things up i play no hammer and recently some one hammer 1m attempts...
theres no rush, it'll come when its ready!
8)
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Haha, honestly, yeah, I could get a 900kish KS pretty easy. It's just that, as soon as I realized I could get a killscreen with enough attempts, I just decided up my pace. I really feel no need to prove to myself or others that I can actually get one, when I am honestly reasonably sure I could if I wanted too. I don't know, I just feel like getting a 900k KS would do nothing for me, as I would just want to beat it the very next game. I guess I'm kinda like Dean in that now that I know I have the skills down for a big score, I wanna play at a high pace from here on out. It's only in these mini-kong-offs, where money is on the line, that I might contemplate playing at a significantly lower pace (first KS bounty, longest first/last man bounties, etc).
Does anyone else feel this way?
Yea I know what you mean Mitch. I got the 914k KS, and then was trying for a bare bones million...but have since given up on that and for a while was playing at 1.1+ pace...but then realized I should go for a solid score that might get me into the KO3...so I play at 1.05M now.
And yea, at the first Wildcard Rematch...even though I vowed to keep playing at 1.05M+ pace...at the end of the day I played a top hammer game because the high score was still in the 860,000s...but in the middle of my game I think it was Hank that told me Ross had just scored around 970k...but things were going well in my game so I decided to just go for the longest man bounty and got it. I was so tired by that time I felt it would be foolish to start grouping.
I'm planning on doing the same thing Saturday...play at 1.05M pace, until the end is approaching, at which time I will lower/up my pace based on where the high score for the day is at.