Author Topic: Are L3/L4 wild barrels OP?  (Read 11920 times)

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WCopeland

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Are L3/L4 wild barrels OP?
« on: February 11, 2014, 10:00:01 am »
Maybe I just suck. Once I hit L5 I can run boards to the kill screen if I play a safe and conservative game, but getting through L3 and L4 has always been hell for me, namely with the wild homing barrels that are thrown there.

I've tried all kinds of different tactics to avoid them, but it seems like no matter what I do I always just die. It's extremely discouraging, and usually by the time I hit L5 I'm so exhausted from restarts I don't even want to play anymore.

Any suggestions for fixing this hole in my play? What do you guys do to avoid massive amounts of deaths from this nonsense?

Offline Shane_NC

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Re: Are L3/L4 wild barrels OP?
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2014, 10:21:00 am »
Well there are a couple different ways to approach this.

First off, and I realize this doesnt really answer your question, there are only 5 barrel boards that aren't L=05+ and since 1-1 is very basic, that really only leaves 4 screens to worry about dying on due to randomness. Depending how you play/view L=02, its really only 3 boards to sweat. Depending what your pace is, the restart time shouldn't be all that bad. So for me, and some others just YOLO until L=05 and if you have to restart then restart.

I realize none of that answered your question, so I will try to address some of that here. There are a few known strategies to help avoid Lvl 3-4 wild barrels. One such strategy is, that anytime a wild barrel is thrown on Lvl 3-4 and you are not on the 5th girder, you should run left in avoidance as a general rule of thumb. Here is the reasoning: When a wild barrel is thrown it can actually gain more speed as it guides in the same direction (ie. towards the right). However, if you run left and the wild barrel must switch directions back to a left heading, it not only loses some speed, but also some angle. In summary, usually if you avoid a wild barrel by running right, the wild barrel will just pick up speed and more angle to kill you, but if you run left the barrel loses both speed and angle allowing you to make it by safely more often.

Also, when regarding the 5th girder there is a safe spot for wild barrels, however this not only changes depending on Level it also changes by internal timer. So it will look something like this:

L=1 <33secs = safespot on 5th girder is quite a few steps left of the lvl 5+ safespot (just to the inside of DK's left leg)
L=1 >33secs = safespot on 5th girder is basically in the same place
L=2 <33secs = ""        ""     ""
L=2 >33secs = (lvl 3 wild barrels)
etc

This is an attempt to illustrate that the 5th girder safespot changes not only depending on level but also by internal difficulty which is dependant on the timer. Usually most million point players can give you a better idea of where these safespots are on lvls 3-4 depending on the timer.

To Recap
-----------
1) There are only 3-4 barrel boards to worry about. Yolo and restart if needed
2) As a rule of thumb, when a wild barrel is thrown on lvls 3-4, run left in escape.
3) Ask some million point players about 5th girder safespots on lvl 3-4 depending on timer.
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WCopeland

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Re: Are L3/L4 wild barrels OP?
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2014, 02:34:40 pm »
Confirmed: I just suck. But now I suck marginally less.

Running left seems to be doing the trick Kappa

Offline marinomitch13

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Re: Are L3/L4 wild barrels OP?
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2014, 04:12:14 pm »
Might I suggest practicing with the wild barrel hack a bit ;) (for some reason the WBH gets no love from people on DKF)

Make sure to read through some of the older threads about wild barrel strategy. Here's one that is pretty applicable:

https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=44.0

You can also easily search for the wild barrel section in the DK manual:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lPdtKh8KFqWSmL-YTZ2qpHD9HkQbjLQw-Km0VvBNbBA/edit?usp=sharing
« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 04:15:58 pm by marinomitch13 »
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Offline stella_blue

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Re: Are L3/L4 wild barrels OP?
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2014, 06:49:38 pm »
Might I suggest practicing with the wild barrel hack a bit

A link to the wild barrel hack might also be useful:

DK Wild Barrel ROM

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Offline ChrisP

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Re: Are L3/L4 wild barrels OP?
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2014, 09:18:12 pm »
Running left seems to be doing the trick Kappa

When I figured out the "just start running left" thing (as opposed to running back and forth like a chicken with its head cut off, praying in terror that the wild barrel would pinball off in another direction), my L3/4 deaths plummeted from "pretty common" to "rare."

This is the single best thing you can do about the problem.

Knowing and using the safe spot on L3, and only making a break for the last ladder when the release-cycle is such that the anklebiter wild barrel won't get you, is also key.
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Offline up2ng

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Re: Are L3/L4 wild barrels OP?
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2014, 11:00:33 pm »
"Running Left" is a useful strategy, but probably not the best one over all in my opinion.  Depending on where you are on the structure, the oncoming traffic of rolling barrels, and how you time your run, you may not always be able to beat the wild barrel to the left.

As a very strong alternative (or perhaps as a new "plan A"), try positioning Jumpman exactly underneath the wild barrel just at the moment that it bounces off of the girder directly overhead.  If you do it correctly, the wild barrel will always bounce severely to the right and out of harm's way.  It's virtually impossible to be hit by it in this position. 

A couple of points about this tactic: 

If you are a bit late getting into position while running right to left, or if you have drifted a bit too far to the left at the moment the wild barrel bounces off of the girder directly overhead, it will end up bouncing to the left instead of sharply to the right.  Often times this bounce to the left will occur at a relatively shallow angle, coming close to hitting Jumpman and perhaps just missing him off to the left side.  BUT, when this occurs, the wild barrel will then bounce off of the girder THAT YOU ARE STANDING ON, and bounce severely to the right -- and it CAN and WILL hit you in the foot!  Anticipate this and JUMP for style points (and survival).

The other important point is that if you happen to be standing under the wild barrel as it changes into a Level 5 wild barrel, then of course it will drop onto your head instead of bouncing severely to the right.  As you begin playing bottom hammer games this is actually something that you have to actively keep track of, watch out for, and avoid.  However, if you are literally running boards towards a killscreen, you should never have to deal with internal difficulty transitions anyway (although you might run into this in a top hammer only game while using the top hammer).

Anyway, just keep playing and eventually over time you will get more and more used to dealing with these.  It may also be helpful to remember what these L3 wild barrels are programmed to do and what they MUST do algorithmically.  Basically, at the moment of each bounce off of EVERY girder, the wild barrel will look to see if Jumpman is positioned somewhere to its left, in which case it will bounce left, or if he is positioned somewhere to its right, in which case it will bounce right.  If it bounces right, it will generally bounce at a sharper angle (and hence it will be travelling faster since vertical speed / acceleration is basically fixed).  Armed with this knowledge, one of the biggest things to do that will improve your play in these situations is to simply stay calm when you recognize that a L3 wild barrel has entered the screen and immediately begin aggressively seeking a solution instead of panicking and "hoping" to survive.

And just so you know, we all still get hit by these occasionally . . . RESTART!
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Offline Barra

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Re: Are L3/L4 wild barrels OP?
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2014, 06:28:08 am »
Having this problem also
Thanks for the tips guys!
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Offline marinomitch13

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Re: Are L3/L4 wild barrels OP?
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2014, 01:31:03 pm »
What Dean said.

Some pointers I can add to this are:

1) be aware of where you are on the board such that you are prepared for if a type 2 wild barrel is thrown. Try to quickly navigate through any places where you will be more vulnerable. In general, places with longer spaces between ladders is safer, since any movement required to dodge a wild barrel can sometimes incidentally steer barrels down ladders and make things more difficult.

2) If possible, wait until the last second to dodge type 2 wild barrels (like Dean said). Running around too much too early can put you in situations where the wild barrel will zig-zag a lot and make it harder to precisely track its location above you.

3) As a backup method to Dean's method (if you haven't mastered it yet), run left like everyone has been saying -but only *after* having first steered the type 2 WB at least once to the right. This will almost guarantee that the WB will stay way away from you. If you are already far left on the screen, you may be forced to use Dean's method if you can't steer the barrel twice to the right before it reaches the girder above you.

4) And, just to explain in more detail, Type 2 wild barrels can be related to type 1 wild barrels in this way:

-Type 1 WBs will randomly bounce either left or right with a random horizontal range from 0 to "X" in either direction (X stands for the maximum x-axis vector that the DK program allows for this sort of WB i.e. the maximum "shallowness" of the WB).

-Type 2 WBs will *always* bounce and redirect towards Jumpman's x-axis direction (where he is in relation to the WB as it hits a girder above him), however these WBs have a random range *to the left* that is the SAME as type 1 WBs (0 to X), but when they travel to the right it has a range of X to 2X. This is why steering Type 2 WBs to the right causes them to travel to the right faster/farther (because they have to at least move right with "x" as their x-axis vector!), and also why if you steer them to the right at the last second they will sail safely over your head (unless you jump/run to the right with them after steering them... yeah... don't do that ;) ).

Picture (in case it is still confusing):

« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 01:34:21 pm by marinomitch13 »
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Offline Barra

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Re: Are L3/L4 wild barrels OP?
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2014, 03:04:43 pm »
Thanks Mitch!
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