Donkey Kong Forum
General Donkey Kong Discussion => The Kong Off => Topic started by: danman123456 on June 27, 2016, 11:01:50 am
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Figured I would put this here. Last year at KO4 streaming was not able to be done due to a lot of factors: Horrible Internet at the convention center, no camera setups, etc, etc. I want to change this for KO5. I started by looking into the place that handles internet for David L Lawrence center they want $3,495 for a single drop of 3 Mbps and 8 devices <gasp> - That falls in the no way category FailFish and <thefinger> to that I say.
I looked around and this is what appears to be one of the more cost effective options. I have 4 laptops I can bring to the event (and possibly 2 more as well for a total of 6)
1. Get 3 T-Mobile 4G Mobile Hotspots (Currently $79.99 + $20 for a Sim Card Kit - $99.99 Total) http://www.t-mobile.com/internet-devices/zte-falcon-z-917-hotspot.html (http://www.t-mobile.com/internet-devices/zte-falcon-z-917-hotspot.html) - Approx $300
2. Get the 18GB Data Plan for them - $80 a Month (Plus taxes) - Approx $270 (Or look into possibly the $95 prepaid 22GB Plan which is another $15 ($95 vs $80)
3. Get Cameras for all 16 Cabinets - This is proving to be the hardest part. I've gotten 2 different "cheap" models and both are WAY to zoomed in. Looks like this will require a camera that does auto-zoom because so far to get the screen the cameras have to be like 6-8 feet away :/ - Anyone know of a good camera model to try this with? So far I think the Logitech C270 might be the one. It's only $22.99 right now at Walmart.com and apparently does the zoom/etc. Anyone use this camera now? If this works that is $386.23 for 16. Course if people bring their webcam to the event it could cut down the number needed dramatically. I will bring my Lifecam Studio for sure.
4. USB Extension Cables - $9.79 on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/Importer520-Premium-Extender-Repeater-Extension/dp/B00FFKIUJS/ref=sr_1_30?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1467041640&sr=1-30&keywords=extension+cable+usb&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_five_browse-bin%3A7800930011 (https://www.amazon.com/Importer520-Premium-Extender-Repeater-Extension/dp/B00FFKIUJS/ref=sr_1_30?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1467041640&sr=1-30&keywords=extension+cable+usb&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_five_browse-bin%3A7800930011) - - Approx $160.00 for 16.
5. 4 USB Powered Hub (For the Webcams to the laptop as they have 3 ports) - $13.99 $64 Total - https://www.amazon.com/ONCHOICE-Ports-Network-Switch-Laptop/dp/B018XB7L9A/ref=sr_1_18?s=pc&rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1467041889&sr=1-18&keywords=powered+usb+hub&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011%2Cp_n_feature_keywords_browse-bin%3A6801586011 (https://www.amazon.com/ONCHOICE-Ports-Network-Switch-Laptop/dp/B018XB7L9A/ref=sr_1_18?s=pc&rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1467041889&sr=1-18&keywords=powered+usb+hub&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011%2Cp_n_feature_keywords_browse-bin%3A6801586011)
6. 1GB Switch (To stream local to the "main" laptop) - $20.00 for 8 port switch - https://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-Gigabit-Ethernet-Desktop-TL-SG1008D/dp/B001EVGIYG/ref=sr_1_3?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1467049363&sr=1-3&keywords=1G+switch (https://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-Gigabit-Ethernet-Desktop-TL-SG1008D/dp/B001EVGIYG/ref=sr_1_3?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1467049363&sr=1-3&keywords=1G+switch)
7. Cat 5/6 Cables - 25ft plus are only $7 - $10 - Will need 4 for the laptops on the cabinets and then a 50FT to get to the desk. $50
This should enable 4 laptops to stream all 16 cabinets then entire time. I also hope to have a good mic and a dedicated server for the 'main" stream so there can be commentary/etc when people are not streaming. Xsplit also streams "locally" so Between my personal Verizon MIFI and these we should have plenty of bandwidth and Gigs to handle it all and should someone get a good "game" going we can bring that up on the "main" stream as well. I did some testing and even 300k CBR is very watchable and fairly sure it will work for 4 or 5 streams over the 3 days.
Whats the point here? Well as you can see this all adds up to a fair amount so if people can help with the costs I will work hard to ensure this works out. I will be making mounts for each cabinet out of wood just like i have now. I simply cannot afford to do all of this myself especially as I still have all the costs for going to KO5 to account for as well. If enough people can chip in a little bit I'm hopeful this will be a pretty good experience for everyone to watch and be a part of. I can't guarantee it will be perfect but I'm hopeful this will do very well. I also want to have the scoreboard online and updated frequently so everyone knows who has what going on. If anyone has an suggestions or questions here please just let me know. Trying to figure out if this is worth doing based upon the react I get here people can just paypal me or something else can be worked out.
Costs:
1. Internet - $600
2. Cameras - $385 (This can be flexible if people bring cameras or a cheaper/better option is found for under $22)
3. USB Cables/Hubs - $224
4. 1G Switch and Network Cables - $70
5. Laptop/Computers - $0. (I will bring at least 4 but hoping to have 6 ready. If someone will have one as backup/etc would be helpful.)
Total : $1279.00
Thanks everyone!
Dan
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I use the C270 for my hand cam on my millipede. I also got a 2nd one to put on my mame setup. It doesn't zoom iirc, but it doesn't have to be very far away, for mame I have it on a bracket on my machine, about 20 inches from my screen. For the millipede hand cam it is taped to the marquee, pointing down so it's about 2 feet away from my hands. The nice thing is that it is super cheap and the quality is okay. not as good as the C920 I use for the main set up, but okay for arcade I reckon. Also, the C270 does NOT have a camera mount, it is designed to drape over a laptop screen. Not a huge issue, you can tape it to things, but fyi.
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See if ReplayFX will comp you.
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I use the C270 for my hand cam on my millipede. I also got a 2nd one to put on my mame setup. It doesn't zoom iirc, but it doesn't have to be very far away, for mame I have it on a bracket on my machine, about 20 inches from my screen. For the millipede hand cam it is taped to the marquee, pointing down so it's about 2 feet away from my hands. The nice thing is that it is super cheap and the quality is okay. not as good as the C920 I use for the main set up, but okay for arcade I reckon. Also, the C270 does NOT have a camera mount, it is designed to drape over a laptop screen. Not a huge issue, you can tape it to things, but fyi.
I saw a video where software can zoom it in an out so I guess best bet is to grab one from Walmart ASAP and check it out. I'm making brackets just like the one I use now. Easy and just screws right into the marquee screw hole.
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See if ReplayFX will comp you.
Hmm yeah not even sure who I would talk to about that. Guess I'll reach out to Richie and see if that is even a possibility.
Dan
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Sent a note to Richie will see what happens. If anyone wants to donate and they will take care of it ill just send the $$ back.
Thanks,
Dan
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I can provide 2 cameras for the event. A logitech c270 and lifecam studio. I have a few more 'lesser quality' lifecams aswell (2 I believe) if that will help any.
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I have a c310 and was able to mount it inside the cab behind the bezel with some velcro, (not very different from the c270). My lifecam can't seem to get a good picture from such a close distance. Would be a cleaner look without having to readjust for every bump.
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I can provide 2 cameras for the event. A logitech c270 and lifecam studio. I have a few more 'lesser quality' lifecams aswell (2 I believe) if that will help any.
Awesome yes that would help a lot sir.
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I have a c310 and was able to mount it inside the cab behind the bezel with some velcro, (not very different from the c270). My lifecam can't seem to get a good picture from such a close distance. Would be a cleaner look without having to readjust for every bump.
Hmm I think I understand what you are saying. I don't have any real issues with the camera and bumping it (unless you run into it). I'll see if something can be made to do what you suggest sir..
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If I end of coming (still in limbo with work) I'll bring my lifecam and c310.
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You won't be able to stream 4 webcams simultaneously through a USB hub. You need a dedicated USB port for each cam.
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I might also add that you may have problems streaming so many webcams on one PC. It requires quite a bit of computing power to process 1 webcam at a high resolution, let alone 4 different cams at normal res. on one pc. It may work okay, but you might want to make sure your computers are up to snuff using some cheapo cams before buying all the others.
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You won't be able to stream 4 webcams simultaneously through a USB hub. You need a dedicated USB port for each cam.
I was going to do 2 via onboard and then 2 via the hub. Think that will be too much?I'm going to grab some test cameras from Walmart ASAP. I so far have only done a setup with 3 separate cameras.
I am also considering rtmp streams with raspberry pi's - That should work im sure as I can specify them as the source but then I need to get a bunch of pi zeros and get em installed. Testing time is becoming short :D
Thanks,
Dan
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I might also add that you may have problems streaming so many webcams on one PC. It requires quite a bit of computing power to process 1 webcam at a high resolution, let alone 4 different cams at normal res. on one pc. It may work okay, but you might want to make sure your computers are up to snuff using some cheapo cams before buying all the others.
They aren't gaming rigs but they are all fairly beefy. I am going to do a full test for sure before starting. I'm starting to consider the PI setup more and more now. ITs more complicated but overall its easiest way to change streams/etc. Only issue is getting the zooming stuff done no clue if that will work. I'll know soon.
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I might also add that you may have problems streaming so many webcams on one PC. It requires quite a bit of computing power to process 1 webcam at a high resolution, let alone 4 different cams at normal res. on one pc. It may work okay, but you might want to make sure your computers are up to snuff using some cheapo cams before buying all the others.
They aren't gaming rigs but they are all fairly beefy. I am going to do a full test for sure before starting. I'm starting to consider the PI setup more and more now. ITs more complicated but overall its easiest way to change streams/etc. Only issue is getting the zooming stuff done no clue if that will work. I'll know soon.
Very well, I am sure it will work out fine. Btw, would this become the 'resident' streaming rig or would you take this back with you?
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You won't be able to stream 4 webcams simultaneously through a USB hub. You need a dedicated USB port for each cam.
I was going to do 2 via onboard and then 2 via the hub. Think that will be too much?I'm going to grab some test cameras from Walmart ASAP. I so far have only done a setup with 3 separate cameras.
In my experience, USB hubs don't work well for webcams. The hub is just dividing the bandwidth of a single USB port. That's the main reason we only had about 6-8 streams at KO2 and KO3. You need beefy laptops, lots of bandwidth, lots of dedicated USB ports and a metric shitload of cabling to stream multiple cams simultaneously.
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I might also add that you may have problems streaming so many webcams on one PC. It requires quite a bit of computing power to process 1 webcam at a high resolution, let alone 4 different cams at normal res. on one pc. It may work okay, but you might want to make sure your computers are up to snuff using some cheapo cams before buying all the others.
They aren't gaming rigs but they are all fairly beefy. I am going to do a full test for sure before starting. I'm starting to consider the PI setup more and more now. ITs more complicated but overall its easiest way to change streams/etc. Only issue is getting the zooming stuff done no clue if that will work. I'll know soon.
Very well, I am sure it will work out fine. Btw, would this become the 'resident' streaming rig or would you take this back with you?
I have a PI2 i might try installing this RTMP software on and see how that goes here this weekend.
Not sure about the "resident" streaming rig? Take back with me where?
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You won't be able to stream 4 webcams simultaneously through a USB hub. You need a dedicated USB port for each cam.
I was going to do 2 via onboard and then 2 via the hub. Think that will be too much?I'm going to grab some test cameras from Walmart ASAP. I so far have only done a setup with 3 separate cameras.
In my experience, USB hubs don't work well for webcams. The hub is just dividing the bandwidth of a single USB port. That's the main reason we only had about 6-8 streams at KO2 and KO3. You need beefy laptops, lots of bandwidth, lots of dedicated USB ports and a metric shitload of cabling to stream multiple cams simultaneously.
Yeah the plan is to put the laptops near the pcs versus at the table to limit the long cable runs. RDP into the the laptops if need be. I just checked and this laptop is a 6450b Probook HP and it does have 4 USB ports on it so perhaps that will work. I will be picking up webcams at Walmart tomorrow to test.
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You won't be able to stream 4 webcams simultaneously through a USB hub. You need a dedicated USB port for each cam.
I was going to do 2 via onboard and then 2 via the hub. Think that will be too much?I'm going to grab some test cameras from Walmart ASAP. I so far have only done a setup with 3 separate cameras.
In my experience, USB hubs don't work well for webcams. The hub is just dividing the bandwidth of a single USB port. That's the main reason we only had about 6-8 streams at KO2 and KO3. You need beefy laptops, lots of bandwidth, lots of dedicated USB ports and a metric shitload of cabling to stream multiple cams simultaneously.
What he said.
Good luck with RDPing into a machine trying to stream 4 cameras. 3 cams per machine max and I'd be VERY surprided if you could use RDP to talk and configure cameras. I've had 4 a few times but its never been stable. Make sure you use active extension cables.
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I might also add that you may have problems streaming so many webcams on one PC. It requires quite a bit of computing power to process 1 webcam at a high resolution, let alone 4 different cams at normal res. on one pc. It may work okay, but you might want to make sure your computers are up to snuff using some cheapo cams before buying all the others.
They aren't gaming rigs but they are all fairly beefy. I am going to do a full test for sure before starting. I'm starting to consider the PI setup more and more now. ITs more complicated but overall its easiest way to change streams/etc. Only issue is getting the zooming stuff done no clue if that will work. I'll know soon.
Very well, I am sure it will work out fine. Btw, would this become the 'resident' streaming rig or would you take this back with you?
I have a PI2 i might try installing this RTMP software on and see how that goes here this weekend.
Not sure about the "resident" streaming rig? Take back with me where?
Oh, what I mean by that is would this be used for future kong offs? Or more of a temp solution until an official agreement gets worked out.
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You won't be able to stream 4 webcams simultaneously through a USB hub. You need a dedicated USB port for each cam.
I was going to do 2 via onboard and then 2 via the hub. Think that will be too much?I'm going to grab some test cameras from Walmart ASAP. I so far have only done a setup with 3 separate cameras.
In my experience, USB hubs don't work well for webcams. The hub is just dividing the bandwidth of a single USB port. That's the main reason we only had about 6-8 streams at KO2 and KO3. You need beefy laptops, lots of bandwidth, lots of dedicated USB ports and a metric shitload of cabling to stream multiple cams simultaneously.
What he said.
Good luck with RDPing into a machine trying to stream 4 cameras. 3 cams per machine max and I'd be VERY surprided if you could use RDP to talk and configure cameras. I've had 4 a few times but its never been stable. Make sure you use active extension cables.
Yeah I've done two and three cameras and it's been fine but a lot of folks say 4 cameras and it all goes to crap. The USB cables I looked at said they were active cables that boost the signal so hopefully that will be ok. If I have to do 3 per stream that's doable as well as ill have a good 6 laptops but I'm realllllly thinking the pi thing might work better unless xsplit chokes on 4 rtmp streams. Still that means another $160 or so to get pi zeros and nics :/
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Should probably move this to the Kong-Off Forum but a little update:
I confirmed with T-Mobile I can pick up 2 of ZTE Z915 from Ebay/etc and just get a sim card and the 18GB plan for the trip. Looks like I will be able to get 2 of these for around $50 a piece. $80 each for the plan and sim card shows its $4.99 at Best Buy or Amazon ($270.00)
This along with what JC confirmed will be available as well as my personal MIFI should cover the bandwidth necessary to stream all / most of the cabs when we can.
I hooked 4 cameras up to my HP Probook 6450b laptop and they did work. The issue I had was adjusting them (The C270) as it had no focus capability and would only adjust the last one connected to x-split as far as zoom and brightness. I have 3 of the next model up and will be giving them a try tonight or tomorrow to see how that works. I'll get one of 4 different cameras if that is what it takes.
JC and I will be able to provide the laptops/etc. I'm willing to pick up the Cameras (Please bring if you can all) and I'm even looking to get some Microphones and a Mixer for the "main" stream for some commentary and possibly a play-by-play or interviews/etc while we are there when people are not competing. The main focus is to at least have video streaming for each cab (Audio won't really be available or worth it except at the "main" table/stream).
Based on this really just need to get some funds together from everyone to pay for the internet and cables. I'll throw up the $600 upfront for the cameras and $200 for the audio mixer/mics but will need to get about $270 for the internet and another $300 for all the cables / switches needed.
Basically if everyone competing can throw in $20 or $30 that gets $320 - $480 right there. Another 10-20 folks chip in $10-20 and I will cover the rest if necessary but I think this is enough. Danauction @ hotmail . com is PayPal info everyone
I'll post on Facebook as well since we are 2 weeks out I need to order this now so if anyone can give I'll need it by next week. Thanks all! BibleThump
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I've got 2 C270's but the problem with them is they have to be mounted pretty far away from the screen to get the whole playfield. It can be pretty distracting to a player who isn't used to it. I'm going to pick up a few Microsoft Lifecams as they seem to have a wider field of view and are easier to mount close to the cab. I'm bringing 2 high-end laptops so should be able to run around 5-6 streams from those.
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See if ReplayFX will comp you.
Indeed. ReplayFX will be supplying a 12Mbps dedicated line directly to the Kong Off area for this exact purpose. It has been set up for you since November, and the bill is already fully paid. In 2016, we're sponsoring this internet in addition to the prize pool, a truck rental to move games from Jersey, and other lesser items. I would have posted sooner, but I was unaware of this thread until someone filled me in.
mhs
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Tears in my eyes BibleThump BibleThump Kreygasm Thanks so much to replayFX, I can bring my laptop and a pair of lifecams to eat up some of that bandwidth..
Big Big Big
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Lit. Kreygasm
Wish I could go this year, but it seems like 95% sure I can't. Will be watching the streams. Maybe I can get our new local barcade to play the streams on their TVs around the place.
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Lit. Kreygasm
Wish I could go this year, but it seems like 95% sure I can't. Will be watching the streams. Maybe I can get our new local barcade to play the streams on their TVs around the place.
BibleThump
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See if ReplayFX will comp you.
Indeed. ReplayFX will be supplying a 12Mbps dedicated line directly to the Kong Off area for this exact purpose. It has been set up for you since November, and the bill is already fully paid. In 2016, we're sponsoring this internet in addition to the prize pool, a truck rental to move games from Jersey, and other lesser items. I would have posted sooner, but I was unaware of this thread until someone filled me in.
mhs
OMG thanks so much!!! Is there a switch there as well or will we need to provide one? Fantastic news!!! :D - Now the personal mifis can be used in an emergency only situation! Excellent!
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There is currently only a cable provided as access. If you need a switch, you will have to provide it.
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Will anyone record the stream for watching it later? I'm on holidays for 2 weeks and don't really have much time or stable internet access for this time but I would love to watch some impressions of the Kong Off 5 :)
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Will anyone record the stream for watching it later? I'm on holidays for 2 weeks and don't really have much time or stable internet access for this time but I would love to watch some impressions of the Kong Off 5 :)
Last year after kong off, we had a thread of all the different stream archives that were recorded on dan's stream and PAPA. It was a bit disorganized last year due to the make-shift nature of the stream, but this year it will be much more cohesive because we have actually planned the streaming aspect beforehand. So yes, expect some decent videos coming out of the streams this year.
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That's great news, thank you very much!
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Can anyone share a link to the live stream(s) for KONG OFF 5? :)
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Will there be a leaderboard posted?
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Can anyone share a link to the live stream(s) for KONG OFF 5? :)
http://www.twitch.tv/kongoff5 (http://www.twitch.tv/kongoff5) - main stream
http://www.twitch.tv/kongoff5one (http://www.twitch.tv/kongoff5one) - Cabs
http://www.twitch.tv/kongoff5two (http://www.twitch.tv/kongoff5two) - Cabs
http://www.twitch.tv/kongoff5three (http://www.twitch.tv/kongoff5three) - Cabs
http://www.twitch.tv/kongoff5four- (http://www.twitch.tv/kongoff5four-) Cabs
http://www.twitch.tv/kongoff5five (http://www.twitch.tv/kongoff5five) - Cabs
http://www.twitch.tv/kongoff5six (http://www.twitch.tv/kongoff5six) - Cabs
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Will there be a leaderboard posted?
Yes, Dave, they'll be a leaderboard, stop asking so many questions :-X
https://sites.google.com/site/kongoff5scoreboard/ (https://sites.google.com/site/kongoff5scoreboard/)
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Will there be a leaderboard posted?
Yes, Dave, they'll be a leaderboard, stop asking so many questions :-X
https://sites.google.com/site/kongoff5scoreboard/ (https://sites.google.com/site/kongoff5scoreboard/)
Kappa
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I just want to say that Dean and Hank did a great job with the commentary, despite missing every one of Wes' deaths. It's almost like they know what they're talking about.
Wes and Robbie came up strong in the finals. If someone has the streams recorded it'd be great to put together a "best of" video, since there were some terrific moments.