Donkey Kong Forum
Other Classic Arcade Games => Classic Arcade Game Discussion => Topic started by: Sock Master on February 27, 2018, 05:29:57 pm
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Hi all!
Normally when I'm working on something I like to keep it secret until I'm pretty far along. I like to make sure that things are actually working out, that it'll be good and that it's pretty much a guarantee to happen. That way I won't raise people's hopes about something if there's a chance I might not finish it.
I've been working on this project on and off for about two months now... Well, you know, it's the sort of thing I like to do when I have some free time and the urge to create something. Sometimes I have several little personal projects going at once. They don't always get finished.
Anyway, the reason I'm starting this thread... I think this project will have a better chance at turning into something fun... and also of actually getting finished if I share my progress as I go along. We can bounce ideas off each other and input from Mario Bros fans and experts will be much appreciated.
To get things started, I should mention a few things about what is and what is not possible to do.
The Remix kits plug into the Z80 socket. This pretty much means only the program code can be changed!
The sprites and graphics tiles cannot be changed - we can't create wholly new sprites or graphics.
We can use the existing sprites and tiles in creative ways to change things up a bit but in general the game graphics cannot be changed in a significant way.
I have to mention this because as cool as it'd be to add all new characters/enemies/graphics/etc... there probably wouldn't be a reasonable way to make it possible.
Things that use existing graphics or elements of the game in new ways are more likely to work out.
These could be new stage layouts, new gameplay mechanics, different variants of existing enemies, stages with different objectives, bonus stages... expanding on and using what's already there. To remix the game in a new way.
Its still early on and there's no guarantee when or even if it'll be completed.
You just never know how things might go.
Lets hope it'll be good!
Thanks
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Kreygasm
I'm terrible at Mario Bros., but one thing that always bothered me was that you don't get any extra points on the bonus stage for finishing quickly. Finish it with 0.1 seconds or 5 seconds and it's all the same. So, implementing an actual time-based award would be cool.
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Please fix the controls if possible. Not every level should feel like you're playing the SMB ice level.
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Please fix the controls if possible. Not every level should feel like you're playing the SMB ice level.
False.
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My biggest gripe about the original is that there's never any incentive to point-press. There are heaps of different and more challenging ways to play the various Phases that are never employed because the risk/reward ratio doesn't make it worthwhile.
A killscreen would incentivize point-pressing, as would inserting one or two vastly more difficult Phase types per group of six. As it stands now, most all players utilize the POW only for survival, with the exception being the first few "instructional" Phases.
My advice then: incorporate different uses for the POW and create Phases (and an overall gameplay arch) with high risk/reward ratios.
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Greetings all. On behalf of me and Stephen Boyer, we welcome and prop you out sock for taking this potential project on! I know we talked briefly about it on someone's live twitch broadcast a while back, and for the record, you did a GREAT job on the DK and JR. remixes sir! Me and Boyer will be periodically chiming in with ideas for you. Two off the top of my head would be... How about adding an extra digit so there is no rollover on the score unless you got to 9,999,990? And would it be possible on the bonus stages to add the fireballs and slipice as obstacles to pass through, as you are collecting the coins on the bonus stages? I know this would make Jeremy's idea of finishing it faster for more of a bonus less possible, but it would keep you on your toes, so to speak, knowing you could die on the bonus boards too from the usual elements on the phases. More ideas to come, lol.
<popcorn>
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Have the red fireballs start at faster speeds on higher levels and have the 2nd red fireball come out sooner on higher levels so difficulty keeps increasing.
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I would love to be one of the first Sock, if and when you finish it, to stream the remix on my Twitch channel btw!! 8)
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This sounds like a wonderful project and one I have heard about a while back so I cannot wait to see the finished project! I have some ideas I will type down below. Some may be great ideas and some may not but we can all chime in on them to see what sticks and what does not. :D
Please DO NOT tinker with the way Mario & Luigi walk or run in the game. There is nothing wrong with it and it totally works the way it is. I’ve never even thought about it as it works perfectly.
1) I don't much care about having a kill screen or having the game get so hard to where the game ends because it’s impossible to get past a certain level every time you play a game of
Mario Bros. BUT... if a Kill Screen can be added into the game on the start menu (select normal game or KS game?) then I love the idea!
2) Maybe add some in-between story graphics like you see in Congo Bongo, Pac-Man and other titles?
3) Start Menu options:
A: Kill Screen game or Normal Game? Phase 98 for the selected KS game and players who like to point press can enjoy this but also have the normal game of MB? A selected KS game will
indeed end after Phase 98.
B: POW Block or no POW block when game starts? No POW block would be great for Ultimate NO POW games so the gamer does not have to kill it off them self. Just a thought.
C: Add option to select one of two new characters (4 total now)? Same looking characters but different Color cloths. New characters are named Stephen and Steven. ROFL
D: Option to start a game at Phase 1 or Phase 36? (or where the game starts to get the hardest) It's just a way to skip the slower, easier phases in the beginning.
E: Add the option to get a free man every 25K, 50K or every 100K so the game can Indeed be marathoned like the Japan rom?
F: Keep the same 4 difficulties (Easy, Medium, Hard & Hardest) but maybe add a 5th difficulty called "Extreme" "Ultimate" or whatever everybody decides?
4) FIX THE P= at the bottom left side of the screen. It goes to KO late in the game and seems to be worthless information to a gamer. I personally think it should show the phase number
even after you flip it in the hundreds digit and it should tell a player which of the phases he is on. For example, when a gamer reaches the repeating set of phases late in the game
(1,2,3 & 1,2,3 Turtles, Crabs, Crab & Moth & Turtles, Crabs, Crab & Moth) it would be nice to know exactly which set we are on. EX: P=98 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 & then B for bonus. It
would be helpful in a POW game to know exactly which set of phases you are on. The first set of 3 or the 2nd set of 3.
5) I love the visual effect to see the score you just gained and have it float upward as it disappears like in the other remix games.
6) Every red fireball (Red Boy) increases in value as you hit more than one per phase? For example, if you hit the first Red Boy you gain 1,000 then it would be 1,000 X 2, 1,000 X 3,
1,000 X 4 but they get faster each time too. It is very hard to hit more than 2 Red Boys on a single phase.
7) Multiply the points for hitting the green fireball (Greenies) too? 1 hit = 200 then 200 X 2, 200 X 3, etc?
8) Have the Bonus screen award you more bonus the quicker you finish it. Here is the kicker… The bonus screen continues to get harder and harder up to a certain point. Something like
this…
1st Bonus = Normal Layout but fix first bonus screen as it has a glitch where the floor is like running on ice and it should NOT be that way.
2nd Bonus = Normal Layout + add Ice Head that drops out the tube and freezes a level
3rd Bonus = Normal Layout + Normal Ice Head + one greenie Fireball
4th Bonus = Normal Layout + Unbreakable Ice Head + two Greenie Fireballs
5th Bonus = Normal Layout + Unbreakable Ice Head + Two Greenie Fireballs + One Red Boy Fireball
6th Bonus = Normal Layout + Unbreakable Ice Head + Two Greenie Fireballs + Two Red Boy Fireballs
7th Bonus = Normal Layout + TWO Unbreakable Ice Heads + Two Greenie Fireballs + Two Red Boy Fireballs + Falling Ice.
8th Bonus = Normal Layout + TWO Unbreakable Ice Heads + Two Greenie Fireballs + Two Red Boy Fireballs + Falling Ice and one Red Boy Fireball is moving fast.
9th Bonus = Normal Layout + TWO Unbreakable Ice Heads + Two Greenie Fireballs + Two Red Boy Fireballs + Falling Ice and Both Red Boy Fireballs is moving fast.
10th Bonus = TOTALLY DIFFERENT LAYOUT and repeat the difficulty in order again from beginning to hardest?
20th Bonus = TOTALLY DIFFERENT LAYOUT again and repeat the difficulty in order again from beginning to hardest?
30th Bonus = TOTALLY DIFFERENT LAYOUT and repeat the difficulty in order again from beginning to hardest?
40th Bonus = Back to normal again or another TOTALLY DIFFERENT LAYOUT?
9) Fix the Ice Head Glitch in the game OR incorporate it in the game? If an Ice Head falls off a level and hits a critter right where it would normally freeze then it will become unbreakable.
It is a glitch and should not do this. I have a few ideas for this.
A: Fix the Glitch
B: If an Ice Head makes it down on a level and actually freezes the level then the next Ice Head that
comes out the top tube is a darker blue or looks angrier and is unbreakable the entire time it’s on
the screen, meaning it’s going to eventually get in the way and/or freeze a level.
C: If an Ice Head makes it down on a level and actually freezes the level then the next one that
comes out the top tube is a darker blue or looks angrier but is ONLY unbreakable when it stops
to freeze a level, like the original glitch in the game.
10) Save scores of course
11) Have the score go up to 9,999,990 if possible?
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Create "breakable" segments of floors a'la SMB.
POW block should become an image of Tom Votava
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How about the POW gets a crack in it each time it's hit and on the 3rd hit it explodes and breaks into pieces?
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Change instructions on the Fly level to read
"Use the POW on the fly level" - Tom Votava
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Just let me know where to send money when this is done. :)
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If you choose to go the killscreen route, I don't think 99 Phases is enough. The counter stops at Phase 98 (I think?) but I'm sure this can be fixed. With conservative play, 99 Phases equates to a little over 900K, so Kleisath's WR game likely reached something close to 600 Phases! His game was probably close to 6 hours as well. Maximumsteve can correct my guesstimates and these figures can potentially serve as guideposts for where you think a killscreen would best fit.
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This sounds like a wonderful project and one I have heard about a while back so I cannot wait to see the finished project! I have some ideas I will type down below. Some may be great ideas and some may not but we can all chime in on them to see what sticks and what does not. :D
C: Add option to select one of two new characters (4 total now)? Same looking characters but different Color cloths. New characters are named Stephen and Steven. ROFL
I like this idea - might be fun for the two other characters to have different *powers* kinda like how each char behaves differently in mario 2
F: Keep the same 4 difficulties (Easy, Medium, Hard & Hardest) but maybe add a 5th difficulty called "Extreme" "Ultimate" or whatever everybody decides?
Deranged XD ROFL
I though of something that might be fun - a different fire ball type, one that kinda behaves like a Boo Ghost
The walking physics drives me bloody batty o.0
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This sounds like a wonderful project and one I have heard about a while back so I cannot wait to see the finished project! I have some ideas I will type down below. Some may be great ideas and some may not but we can all chime in on them to see what sticks and what does not. :D
C: Add option to select one of two new characters (4 total now)? Same looking characters but different Color cloths. New characters are named Stephen and Steven. ROFL
I like this idea - might be fun for the two other characters to have different *powers* kinda like how each char behaves differently in mario 2
F: Keep the same 4 difficulties (Easy, Medium, Hard & Hardest) but maybe add a 5th difficulty called "Extreme" "Ultimate" or whatever everybody decides?
Deranged XD ROFL
I though of something that might be fun - a different fire ball type, one that kinda behaves like a Boo Ghost
The walking physics drives me bloody batty o.0
As for two new characters and having different abilities or powers, I'm not sure if that is possible or not. What would the powers be as the game probably needs to stay close to the same element as before. Maybe one runs faster or has snow shoes and runs normally on ice? Maybe one new character has a hard hat and is safe for the first hit from falling ice?
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Wow thanks everybody for putting thought and consideration into and posting your ideas and suggestions! It's giving me
I'm going to put as many ideas as possible into a big list and I'll keep updating it as I go. It'll be good to have a ton of them even the over-ambitious ones. It doesn't matter whether they're all awesome or whether they'd even work out. Sometimes one idea can inspire or improve another idea so it's good to remember the ones that might not work out.
I like having too many because I can weigh their pros/cons/difficulties/progression as I go and work on things in an order that makes sense (eg: idea 3 is impossible to do right now, but if I add idea 1 it should make it easier to add idea 3 later...)
I'll post updates about how things are going as I go. Right now I'm at a stage where I could begin to start adding changes to the game but they'd have to be really basic things because I've only got the code figured out at a vague, basic level. I have to keep studying the puzzle pieces of code to improve my understanding of how all the pieces fit and interact with each other as a whole.
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How about multiple playable characters beyond Mario and Luigi? Similar to SMB2 where you could also play as Toad and Peach, but they have different strengths and weaknesses.
Someone who hates the original movement of the game could pick one of these alternate characters, but they would have some kind of downside to using them to keep the game balanced.
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A kill screen would be cool, but if it were added I think it'd be equally important to add point-pressing mechanisms to the game. Otherwise, you'd have an artificial cap on what the max score could be.
Maybe these point-pressing mechanisms would only be enabled while the KS is enabled, but it'd definitely make the game MUCH more interesting to watch and play.
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Not sure if I like this or not but maybe adding things to pick up in the game or even power ups like Bubble Bobble has? Bubble Bobble has some shoes you can pick up to make your guy run much faster in the game. This is a whole new ballgame though if we start adding too many. Could you imaging if there were a way to add a hammer on certain levels? It is Mario but changes the game I know.
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If anyone's curious to see what sort of stuff may or may not be possible to make some of the graphics look different,
you can load up Mario Bros in MAME. Once the game is up, press F4, then press ENTER, then press ]
You now see the sprite characters that are available to use. You can use the UP and DOWN arrows to scroll through the sprites. You can use the LEFT and RIGHT arrows to switch between the color sets that are available for the sprites to use. Only color sets 0 through F can be used during gameplay. Sets 10 and up are only used in attract mode.
It's a bit disappointing, but the available color sets don't really give many good choices if we wanted sprites to use a new/different color scheme. There doesn't seem to be a good option for an alternate Mario color, nor many good choices for most of the other sprite characters.
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It's a bit disappointing, but the available color sets don't really give many good choices if we wanted sprites to use a new/different color scheme. There doesn't seem to be a good option for an alternate Mario color, nor many good choices for most of the other sprite characters.
How many are available in Zoo Keeper? <stirpot>
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You could make a "Mario Bros Jr." variant where you get to play as some of the bad guys and then just swapped Mario and Luigi into the slots for the bad guys, maybe add some different physics (like letting the turtle dip inside his shell for invulnerability), and "attacks" for the Mario baddies. One could potentially "use the fly on the Pow level" or something like that.
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Give the option of jumping on the turtles like in NES Super Mario Bros. And then you could kick them to kill other enemies, like the crabs, flys, etc. But if you decide to jump on it and kick it, the shell never leaves the stage; it just keeps recycling down through the screen and through the pipes. It will add another obstacle to try and avoid until you complete the screen.
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If anyone's curious to see what sort of stuff may or may not be possible to make some of the graphics look different,
you can load up Mario Bros in MAME. Once the game is up, press F4, then press ENTER, then press ]
You now see the sprite characters that are available to use. You can use the UP and DOWN arrows to scroll through the sprites. You can use the LEFT and RIGHT arrows to switch between the color sets that are available for the sprites to use. Only color sets 0 through F can be used during gameplay. Sets 10 and up are only used in attract mode.
It's a bit disappointing, but the available color sets don't really give many good choices if we wanted sprites to use a new/different color scheme. There doesn't seem to be a good option for an alternate Mario color, nor many good choices for most of the other sprite characters.
I'm sure there are other colors like you mentioned but just from looking at these I do see two cool ice head colors that could be used for the unbreakable ice. The dark blue and even the red one might be cool. Dark blue may work better as it just looks totally frozen and unbreakable. We could use the brown ice as a piece of critter poop. ROFL
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One could potentially "use the fly on the Pow level" or something like that.
ROFL
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You could replace the fly sprite with the pow sprite, and when you hit it, it pows, rather than behaving like a fly, after 3 hits it would disappear, and on these screens there would be no traditional pow block in the bottom.
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You could make a "Mario Bros Jr." variant where you get to play as some of the bad guys and then just swapped Mario and Luigi into the slots for the bad guys, maybe add some different physics (like letting the turtle dip inside his shell for invulnerability), and "attacks" for the Mario baddies. One could potentially "use the fly on the Pow level" or something like that.
Oooo this is an interesting concept!
Give the option of jumping on the turtles like in NES Super Mario Bros. And then you could kick them to kill other enemies, like the crabs, flys, etc. But if you decide to jump on it and kick it, the shell never leaves the stage; it just keeps recycling down through the screen and through the pipes. It will add another obstacle to try and avoid until you complete the screen.
This is a fun idea too :)
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I have a idea that just sprung into my head this morning. One of two things here... On the higher levels when it gets to repeating phases (1,2,3-1,2,3) add a 4th and different phase? So it would now be 1,2,3,4 & repeating 1,2,3,4 then Bonus? This gives the option to create a totally new phase that is different.
Another thought would be for the new 4th level only or maybe for ANY phases in the game. If a crab or turtle makes it all the way down to the bottom pipe and comes back up from the top again then it comes out with a smaller baby behind it. Maybe just one smaller baby or maybe 3 babies?
Another variation is when you flip over a turtle or crab but can't get to it in time then it flips back over but it also leaves a egg behind. The egg needs to be hit 3 times to get it to fully crack open with a baby turtle or crab. Also, anything that hits the egg during this time, such as other critters or ice will also help crack it open. That sounds interesting.
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Someone just pulled the trigger on this...
I'm ready!
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/IfMAAOSw5JBam0pV/s-l1600.jpg)
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Ben cab strims soon. Kreygasm
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Wow! Looks great Ben! Can't wait to see it in action. :D
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Wow it moves. <Allen> Kreygasm
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I really like the aforementioned idea of a Mario Bros Jr. spin on this.
You can play as shell creeper, side stepper, or slip ice. Each one behaves like it normally would and for instance, if you played as the side stepper, you could take two hits before you lose a life. After your first hit you can move faster than before. You see where I'm going with this. Slip ice could turn platforms into ice by pressing Down+Jump and the enemies would all be Marios and Luigis and still fighter fly because nobody wants to play as fighter fly.
Maybe not a great idea, but I like the thought.
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Someone just pulled the trigger on this...
I'm ready!
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/IfMAAOSw5JBam0pV/s-l1600.jpg)
WOW! All you need now is a partner!
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I wanted to BUMP this and find out if it's still in the works and how it's working out. ;D
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This is currently on hold. I actually got fairly far along in the project. I have disassembled the code and made new source code that can be assembled into a new build of the game. I'm at the point where I can add changes to the game and see them working in new builds. The code is only barely commented so far and I only have vague ideas about which routines do what so there's still a long way to go towards fully understanding the code. I have tried experimenting with a few things and things got a bit discouraging... Since the screen is horizontal and the sprites are large it looks like it's going to be difficult to find ways to rearrange stages without making things cramped. The way the graphics and color roms are mapped, it also doesn't look there are going to be too many ways to add new variations of the enemies that will look good. Well, DK Jr Remix also had a rough start but eventually I found ways to make things work out.
I've put way too much time into this to abandon it, so it's still on but at the moment I can't make the time that this project needs. When I do get back to it, hopefully I'll have some fresh insights and solutions.
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Some progress is better than no progress and I'm glad you don't want to abandon it in any way. I'm looking forward to one day seeing the finished product and giving this game the credit it deserves. Thanks!