Richie's / TG's response to KO MAME debate

[TheSunshineFund]

What would happen if Joe Smith the golfer shot a 67 at Agusta, proved he was as good as the best golfers in the world...but didn't want to go through the process of getting his PGA card, didn't want to go through Q school, didn't want to properly qualify and play in live tournaments...just skip it all and expect the PGA to allow him to play with all the other people that went through all the extra trouble, followed the rules, traveled to events, paid their dues and fees...etc.

https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=323.msg7044#msg7044

Right, haha, you said it, thanks = )

Great minds think alike....

It's really just like any other consumer product really, if you don't like the construction, the rules, the price, the travel, the organizers, whatever the case may be, don't consume the product...I don't know why a restaurant near me continues to put rosemary on their fries, I don't really care what the reason is and who decided why they did it, I just don't eat there....it's busy so I guess plenty of people do and that's fine too, it's not for me though.  I don't get why an explanation is desired so badly.  I don't like the way Alpiger runs his tournaments, I wasn't at the last 2, I don't ask him for explanations because it's his tourney he can run it however he wants, likewise, I don't have to go play or agree to his rules.  It certainly won't stop me from playing in other events or playing (perhaps even competing on) the games he features in his tournaments in separate arenas either.

[hchien]

[The Kong Off] needs a guy like [Richie], who will say, ''Look, this is the way we're gonna do it.  This is the rule, and if you don't like it, [you can s___ my d__ off.]''  You've got to have that.  lf you didn't have that in the NFL, who'd win?  How do you declare a champion unless there are rules?  And if you break 'em, you lose.  - Steve Sanders

More seriously, the transition DOES take time.  Even Jeff Willms practiced on a control panel before coming to the Kong Off.  Of the main competitors I don't think anyone has ever showed up at the KO completely blind to a Nintendo joystick. 

The other issue is live vs tighty whitey scores.  I personally prefer to play in my tighty whities... actually I'm more of a boxers person.  I was "forced" to learn to adapt because people wanted to see me play.   Fortunately that transition for me was a bit easier but that was not immediate either.  KO1 qualification started out as 900K LIVE/Arcade only scores.  Indeed, this most closely resembles the KO environment.  However this would worsen the problem of accessibility.  Ask Vincent Lemay why he was playing sub 1M pace at KO2 when just a few days later he was 2700 points shy of the WR.

[LMDAVE]

I've said it before about how MAME will give a certain % higher score due to the controls. And I'm not making excuses, but I feel I would already have my 1.1M game on arcade (or at least 1.08M) had I not had the arcade control screwings I've had lately, but that is my own problem to be fixed.

But, back to MAME, even though the sitting arrangement/controls/viewing angle may all be more confortable, to play at the level Phil has been playing is all reflexes and decision making, and that transfers directly into the arcade machine. So, I guess I agree that if it was a low million game on MAME then, sorry. But, given where he brought his score up to and how he's playing now, I dont' think he should be left out.

Now, you may say, OK, we let this guy in, what about the next MAME player? If you ask me on a conditional criteria, TOP 12 arcade in the contest or if all you can show me is MAME then (MAME: Beat Billy Mitchell and Steve Wiebe, or basically 1.065M or greater for MAME entry.)

This only now really affect one player since Robbie is in, I'm sure they are taking his arcade score.

However, I do respect the final decision if it's final on TOP 12 arcade only. It's been known, so it's not like it just came up.

[TheSunshineFund]

[The Kong Off] needs a guy like [Richie], who will say, ''Look, this is the way we're gonna do it.  This is the rule, and if you don't like it, [you can s___ my d__ off.]''  You've got to have that.  lf you didn't have that in the NFL, who'd win?  How do you declare a champion unless there are rules?  And if you break 'em, you lose.  - Steve Sanders

More seriously, the transition DOES take time.  Even Jeff Willms practiced on a control panel before coming to the Kong Off.  Of the main competitors I don't think anyone has ever showed up at the KO completely blind to a Nintendo joystick. 

The other issue is live vs tighty whitey scores.  I personally prefer to play in my tighty whities... actually I'm more of a boxers person.  I was "forced" to learn to adapt because people wanted to see me play.   Fortunately that transition for me was a bit easier but that was not immediate either.  KO1 qualification started out as 900K LIVE/Arcade only scores.  Indeed, this most closely resembles the KO environment.  However this would worsen the problem of accessibility.  Ask Vincent Lemay why he was playing sub 1M pace at KO2 when just a few days later he was 2700 points shy of the WR.

That's all fine and good but what are we going to do about the rosemary fries?

[mikegmi2]

The rosemary fries are good...just pick the rosemary off...it adds good flavor/aroma.

[TheSunshineFund]

The rosemary fries are good...just pick the rosemary off...it adds good flavor/aroma.

I've been practicing on regular fries all my life...I'll need time to adjust.

[giv]

I'd like to address the "Dean and Jeff were allowed" argument. Even though it has been addressed clearly in the case of Dean (he came to Richie's arcade on the recommendation of top arcade players and delivered the goods) I think there is another angle to consider.

There is an exception to every rule, and it is Dean. The extraordinary intensity with which he plays mame, his super-human dedication and sacrifice, were the catalysts for a transfiguration that occured within his being, causing him to become, as Triforce would say, Godlike.

While you may think this gives you hope - that by playing mame until your synapses fuse and you start to sound like Jeff Goldblum in some mystery thriller movie, standing in front of pegboards and whiteboards filled with computer printouts and calculus problems, connecting the dots to a great conspiracy - that you, too might activate the molecular process that he has undergone, think again: for the cosmic laws governing the morphogenic field dictate that in this universe, there can be only one. Someone already won the space race. And Dean-o was his mame-o.

What about Jeff Willms you say? Different story entirely. He was bitten by a radioactive piranha plant while playing one of those insane Japanese Super Mario World hacks.

[homerwannabee]

Leave out the arcade vs. MAME stuff.  Is a 1.1M MAME score more impressive than a 1.05M MAME score?  I'd say you have to look at the entire game.  Sure 50k is a big chunk of points...nearly a whole level's worth at those paces.  But what about the fact that maybe, for example, the 1.1M score had free passes on all but 1 or 2 Pie Factory levels...whereas the 1.05M score got screwed multiple times on nearly every Pie Factory screen...and had to freestyle several of them....making jumps over fireballs...being patient at the bottom and waiting for an opening...jumping over pies to get away from fireballs...knowing to climb that ladder a little to get a fireball to climb up as well and out of the way.

Spending all that time freestyling Pie Factory screens easily will eat up 50k points...and look at all the hard work, manuvering, jumps, patience...etc...the 1.05M player had to show...whereas the 1.1M player got free passes pretty much the whole time.  If you think about it, all other things equal, a 1.1M game with mostly free passes is actually easier and takes LESS skill than a 1.05M game with several forced freestyle rivet/PF screens.

Here is the thing.  You definitely have a vested interest in this.  You are 14th all time, and most likely Steve Sczerby is not playing, and if Phil's score were to be eliminated you would get into the 12th spot.  I do think that if you don't up your score other Arcade players will pass you, and this will become a moot point for you.  Still here is the question you need to ask yourself.  Do you believe that if you were still on the bubble that you deserve to be in the Kong Off over Phil Tudose?

[mikegmi2]

Not sure how your question has anything to do with the friendly score difficulty discussion.

I think right now I'm 9th on the official arcade scoreboard...soon to be 10th once Steve Wiltshire's new score gets verified. 

Robbie's score should be accepted and verified as well, putting him at 11'th and if Kyle's latest score is verified he will be 12'th.

So if you'd like you should ask Kyle that question, but I doubt anyone wants to start getting personal...so odds are questions like that won't get the response you might be looking for.

In the end, it doesn't matter what I might say anyhow...since it is Jordan/Richie's event.  I just enjoy the competition and friends I have met along the way.  Getting to go to the event, regardless of being in the top 12 or not (I traveled to Denver from Michigan last year, played on a wild card machine, and had a blast), is an added bonus.

[LMDAVE]

I must have missed that about Steve Wilt's new score, what is it?

If anything, I'm on the bubble, because it's yet to be known if Kyle is submitting that game. And since this is TG scores, my 1.015M is the one used, not my 1.026M, which also eliminates Tim Szcerby from contention because his score is not on TG's list.

[mikegmi2]

Steve Wilt's new score is like 1.052M if I remember correctly.  It was posted on Facebook but that's the only place I saw it.  Joel West posted it in fact.  I don't know how he found out about the score unless he was at his house or something because I don't think Steve streams...

Edit:  I found the post, it says he got 1,058,200 on July 25th.

[LMDAVE]

Wow, that's a solid score. Not sure how I missed that.

I need to get back into playing again soon, been a rough week.

[hchien]

I think that was a joke (could be wrong).   But yeah, I bet there will be a few scores like that before KO3.

[marinomitch13]

George (and Richie... since I'm sure this message will be passed on to you), I just wanted to offer you guys and olive branch of sorts. I'll be in Fairfield this weekend, and I'd love to have a peaceful conversation with you guys about the KO3 while I'm there, if we could. I feel as though most of my frustration is just a lack of a clear understanding of your guy's (TG's) thought process. Lots of people have been postulating motives, but I'd love to hear it from you all directly.

I love you guys and what you have been building, I just get hung up on some things sometimes, and I feel it has a lot to do with me not getting the same amount of time to interact with you guys the way you guys do amongst yourselves. I watch arcade culture and I wish I was there with you guys, but I'm not, so when things I disagree with pop up, it may just be the case due to lack of information, and I am constrained, in a way, of immediately getting my questions answered.

All this to say, I won't be going down to Fairfield to cause bad blood or anything. I wanna be a friend to you guys and TG and help out, likewise, in popularizing classic gaming in the Midwest as best I can. I'm actually mainly going to the Fairfield event (like always) since I just want another chance to hang out with my CAG friends! and it happens to be one of the only events that is CAG related that is happening (relatively) close to where I live.

Hope to see you there!

Peace. -Mitch

[hchien]

That's all fine and good but what are we going to do about the rosemary fries?

I am a French Fry Nazi and I make the rules.