Donkey Kong Forum
General Donkey Kong Discussion => The Kong Off => Topic started by: TheSunshineFund on February 12, 2013, 05:48:33 am
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I had suggested a March Madness style bracket for the first Kong Off. It was discussed in detail but never implemented. I think it would make for the best spectator event for non-expert DK spectators.
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I like the idea of a head to head tournament and to give it a more random element it should be no-hammer. I would get a kick out of watching the rivet stages. If that is too much randomness each head to head battle could have two restarts or best two out of three games.
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I agree a bracket tournament would be more interesting for the average spectator to watch. The only problem with that system is with 1 game (or even best of 3), most people would just run boards. I'd probably run boards until I faced say one of the 1.1M players.
I also thought about a handicap system. The one josephjo suggested pretty much amounts to subtracting your PB. The only problem with that is that DK high scores are not linear in terms of skill level past say 900-950K. You can say a 800K player is twice as good as a 400K player, but a 1M player is MORE than twice as good as a 500K player. And a 1.1M player is a lot more than twice as good as a 550K player. I could probably work out some mathematical scoring system/handicap based on your PB (which I've thought about before) which would assume 1.2M is the max, but it'd just confuse everyone. BTW, under that handicap system, I'm pretty sure Allen Staal won the first WC rematch. Congrats!
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Yeah bracket could be interesting for spectators, but it could also be very boring. Assuming that you can see your opponents game as you are playing your own, it is in your best interest to play through the boards as slowly as possible (but without losing points or taking extra risks) so that you are always behind your opponent. This will give you the luxury of finishing second and knowing exactly what score you need to beat.
I could see a viable strategy, especially in games of top players vs top players, being to just wait at the top of the barrel screen jumping barrels for as long as possible (and maybe also leaching the fireball on elevators). Sure you will lose some points from wild barrels but being able to finish second is a huge advantage and may compensate for the loss of points. You could end up in situations where both players are employing this strategy at the top of barrels and that wouldn't be too fun for either players or spectators.
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Are you guys talking single or two player games?
Because if your talking a two player game, forget it! I had that brilliant idea a while back. I was going to call it the "Old School Arcade Rules Tournament." It sounded awesome, in theory. Players going head to head in two player games, with a bracket and everything. Then the last two battle it out for the championship.
I pitched the idea to Eric in mid December, and we gave it a test at Richie's during his grand opening on the 21st.
I was all excited about it, until we actually did it. I wanted to shoot myself in the head less than half way through. First off, it was boring was F@*k. It was less entertaining than watching paint dry. It also took fooooooooooreeeeeeeveeeeeer. A tournament in that style would be an epic fail.
One good thing was that I filmed the entire thing with commentary. The final produced video is going to be hillarious!
I'm pretty sure we're going to stick with standard "high score wins in designated time frame" format. That alone is a decent amount of work to organize and track.
-John
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I'll throw something at you guys that I think should be implemented for the Kong Off.
I don't agree with the fact that once someone scores 1 million points, they are in the tournament for life. Name one other "sport" that does that?
Once the Kong Off is over, the field should be cleaned, and players should have to qualify within one month of the next Kong Off. Have 10 available spots and the top 10 qualifying scores get their own machine. The rest have to play wild card, which should also have a qualifying round. But the wild card qualifier would be live the Friday before the event.
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The only problem with that is that DK high scores are not linear in terms of skill level past say 900-950K. You can say a 800K player is twice as good as a 400K player
And I would very much hesitate to say even that! ;D
I think skill is highly non-linear throughout the spectrum, not just in those last 350,000 points between 850K and 1.2M.
I don't think that it's as simple as "twice the score = twice as good" at any point. There are several plateau-points that seem to recur consistently among a cross-section of players.
For example, for upper-hammerers, it seems very common to get stuck at 300-400K averages for a very long time, whereas once an upper-hammerer can get 500K or more in nearly every game for a dozen games or so, he suddenly finds himself leaping that 300-350K gap to the kill screen.
In other words, you typically become an 850K kill-screener very soon after you become a consistent 500K player, but it takes MUCH longer to go from being a consistent 300K player to being even a consistent 500K player.
So it's pretty complicated, which is why a handicapping system would have to be complicated!
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I don't agree with the fact that once someone scores 1 million points, they are in the tournament for life. Name one other "sport" that does that?
Once the Kong Off is over, the field should be cleaned, and players should have to qualify within one month of the next Kong Off.
I agree with you that something about the qualification process should be tweaked, but you can't just wipe the slate completely either.
Jeff Willms, for example, is the reigning champion. It would be silly to say that he needs to qualify in order to defend his title.
Also, Billy and Steve absolutely have to be at any and all Kong Offs. It's a public event that needs to draw a crowd, and they're the only players with the power to draw a crowd. Except for Hank, the public doesn't know anybody else.
If you put a few automatic gimmes in place, those problems are solved. Any Kong Off should automatically include:
1. The winner of the previous Kong Off
2. The runner-up of the previous Kong Off
3. The current world record holder
4. Former world record holders who held the title with over 1 million points
5. Anybody who has scored over 1.1 million, whether MAME or arcade
As of now, that would give us Jeff, Dean, Hank, and Vincent (the four best players in the world, with the possible exception of Ross) plus Billy and Steve (the two most important "faces"). I think it's right for those six to get a free pass.
The rest though? I'd say you're absolutely right: make them qualify. "Within the month prior" is way too tight of a timetable, though. The main-eventers need to be set BY one month prior, for the sake of both the organizers and the contestants (travel arrangements, publicity, guy writing profiles of them for his blog, etc.).
The qualifying period should be something like three months: "the six highest scores achieved between July 15th and October 15th," for example.
A qualifying round for the wildcard machines is also necessary, evidently, given what happened last year.
Six "permanent" dedicated spots, and four to six that the players have to fight for. I like it!
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It's definitely a good option, Chris. I would enjoy these kind of qualifications.
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I agree with the 6 automatic invites you've listed, Chris: Billy, Dean, Hank, Jeff, Steve, and Vincent (I've listed them alphabetically by first name, Vincent, so stop complaining). ;)
However, for the rest of the main field, I believe a 3 month qualifying window is also far too stringent. In my view, it's a no-brainer; the qualifying period should begin the day after the previous Kong Off, and end 1 month before the current event. I may be mistaken, but when I read John's post, I assumed that's what he intended.
I would also be in favor of a qualifying loophole that would guarantee me a spot at the next Kong Off, by virtue of being the only player over 50 who can stay awake long enough to reach Level 10.
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Oh, I see what John was saying.
And I put Vincent last because he just isn't quite as good as the guy I listed before him.
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Yea, there can be a lot of things to consider regarding who gets "dedicated machines" at the upcomming Kong Off.
I agree it is kinda necessary to always have the 'big names' in the event...Billy and Steve. They draw the people in. This event doesn't happen without them. Or does it? Hard to say. There hasn't been a Kong Off without them.
I like the analogy to other sports...its true, no other sport keeps letting the top players or teams back into the playoffs, or championship, year after year. They have to play through a season, prove themselves again, and earn their way back in again.
I really like the idea of a qualification period. That would be the 'regular season' for Donkey Kong players. It would be a way for all players to prove themselves, year over year, that they didn't just have 1 'lucky' game. It would also keep things fresh and exciting for all players trying to "earn a spot". You would always know who had these 4 or 6 spots locked in currently...and as time went on you would know what score you had to try to beat. The 1 MAJOR flaw with something like this would be sandbagging. If there were players that held out, and didn't tell anyone about a great score they got, it would give everyone else "false hope" that scoring a certain score would earn them a spot.
Lets say the field of qualified players looked like this:
1. Billy
2. Steve
3. Hank
4. Vincent
5. Dean
6. Jeff
7. Player A - 1,060,000
8. Player B - 1,050,000
9. Player C - 1,040,000
10. Player D - 1,030,000
11. Player E - 1,020,000
12. Player F - 1,010,000
There could be another player, or 2 players, call them Player G and Player H, who held scores 1,035,000, and 1,025,000, respectively. These players had these scores on video tape...and did not tell the DK community about them. Everyone else trying to qualify, as it got down to the wire, would be shooting for a safe score that would beat 1,010,000...to knock Player F out and take their spot...only this would be pointless, because the true score to beat would be 1,025,000, Player H's score.
Sandbaggers could hold onto their scores in an attempt to theoretically lower the 'qualifying score' cutoff.
On the other hand...one could argue that you can throw the whole 'sandbagging' argument out the window...and just always assume there may be someone out there sandbagging...so always go for your best/highest possible score...during the qualification period. That way you know that you did your best...and even if someone submits a last minute high score that gets them a spot on the last day of qualifying...you were pushing for the highest possible score you could achieve the whole time, so doesn't matter.
BUT - ...well...it really DOES matter if there are sandbaggers...because someone trying to qualify and beat out the current 'lowest qualified score'...of course wouldn't want to be grouping and pressing to the max...especially during crunch time, like a month or a week before the cutoff date for qualifying...because that obviously reduces his/her chances of completing a game. The more you press, the more chances you have to die. I'm kinda repeating/arguing with myself at this point though...but hopefully you get my points...and you could argue either side of this.
In the end, my vote would be for having to qualify year over year...the TG high scores list would always stay the same...but scores are thrown out every year as far as the Kong Off spots are concerned.
I would also think it should be longer than 3 months. I'd agree with Scott, it starts the day after the previous Kong Off ends, and goes up until 1 month from the Kong Off date?
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Well, keep in mind this is a TG run tournament, so it would make since that they would refer to their own scoreboard for the top qualifiers and it also helps promote the board. When KO3 first came up , I believe Jordan said the top 12 people on the board would be in. The last kong off basically gave everyone a year to qualify. That is completely fair. So, if you didn't make the cut, it's not like you didn't have the time to do it. I don't believe in cutting it short to a small period.
I would not say that the main qualifiers are locked in because they got a lucky score thats still sitting there. Keep in mind, Almost ALL of the contestant from KO1 were in KO2 and they all upped their scores from KO1 to KO2 to be in those positions. So, it wasn't really coincidence.
When the TG arcade scoreboard comes back, I believe this will be the verified standings:
Hank 1138K
Vincent 1136K
Jeff 1107K
Dean 1079K
Steve 1064K
Billy 1062K
Mark K 1052K
Shaun B 1037K
Steve Wilt 1019K
Dave M 1015K (This is not my high, but my highest verified on TG's board)
Kyle G 1011K
I personally plan to have my score upped before KO3, but if I do it within the next couple of weeks instead of a 3 month window before the tournament, I feel it should count. I think qualification period should start now. Just set a limit and go for it. IF you want in the tournament, you basically better aim for a 1.03M score and have it verified. I really don't see anything wrong with that.
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And I put Vincent last because he just isn't quite as good as the guy I listed before him.
Where's the 'Like' button?
Vincent 1136K
I'd like to make a correction. If we are rounding down (which all the other scores are), Vincent's high score is 1135K. Thank you.
This is some great discussion about 1- What should the tournament format be? and 2- Who should have dedicated machines? I believe most of the 3rd generation missed out on this discussion for the original KO, so it's good to see why the existing format is the way it is: 1- simplicity/easy for everyone to understand, 2- best balance of interest from the player's and spectator's perspective. Although I'm open to other formats, I think the existing one is the best balance.
As for who should be invited, I'll stay out of that one. It's way too controversial and too many factors to consider. How should TG unverified scores be considered? (What was Vincent's highest TG verified arcade score pre-KO2? I think it was 0.) How should MAME scores be factored in? (The MAME players at KO2 really proved they need to be included.) Although I will say, I'd be in favor of the high score in a window shorter than 1 year. Why? The KO is a 2 day event. The pace you would play at over a 1 year window is much different from the pace you'd play at for the actual event. At the same time, the shorter the window the more luck that is involved. The right time frame is probably somewhere in the middle.
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How should MAME scores be factored in? (The MAME players at KO2 really proved they need to be included.)
I think the MAME controversy kind of worked itself out, the only 3 MAME scores that were 'monkey wrenches' in the qualification were Dean, Vincent, Jeff, all who now have arcade scores above 1.075M, so by KO3 if there are MAME scores above the top arcade scores, then by all means they should be in the equation.
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How should MAME scores be factored in? (The MAME players at KO2 really proved they need to be included.)
I think the MAME controversy kind of worked itself out, the only 3 MAME scores that were 'monkey wrenches' in the qualification were Dean, Vincent, Jeff, all who now have arcade scores above 1.075M, so by KO3 if there are MAME scores above the top arcade scores, then by all means they should be in the equation.
What Dave said. KO2 basically showed that MAME players are just as capable as arcade players.
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Lets say sometime this year, someone comes out of nowhere and gets a great score, 1,070,000. They play in the Kong Off 3 on a dedicated machine. Over the whole weekend, the highest score they put up is 400k. They had a bad weekend.
Next year, this 1,070,000 is still in the top 10, or top 12...and said player by default is again guaranteed a dedicated machine. This player maybe literally stopped playing Donkey Kong altogether and doesn't even have a DK machine anymore...and is totally out of practice...yet when the Kong Off 4 rolls around...he/she...even though they didn't play a single game of Donkey Kong all year, comes to the Kong off 4 and plays all weekend on a dedicated machine. High Score for the weekend, 250k.
At least for me, this is the type of scenario I am kinda getting at...and I think others were getting at with the sport analogies...is that even competing? Should that person be given a spot year after year?
There are arguments for...yea they do deserve it...they got a great high score and nobody has been able to knock him/her out of the top 10 yet...and there are arguments against...well...no they shouldn't keep getting a dedicated machine...they don't play Donkey Kong anymore, they aren't competitive anymore...so...should they really have a dedicated machine in a Donkey Kong competition if they aren't good at Donkey Kong anymore?
Having to qualify each year would prevent something like this from happening. It also ensures that the players on dedicated machines are in good form and ready to compete.
Shouldn't the current best of the best be on dedicated machines...regardless of what happened 1, 2, 3+ years ago? Definitely debatable...
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Mike: It's funny because your description almost described exactly Billy Mitchell, haha.
Personally, I would say that everyone that has a score of over 1.1m+ don't need any qualifications. Why? Because if you have a high score of 1.1m+, whether you play DK or not anymore, you won't lose your skill and become bad at this game. It won't happen. If you have the skill to do 1.1m+, you will likely always have the skill to be a good 1m+ player (unless you're getting very old, but that's not the problem for anyone right now).
As for the people below 1.1m, they should have qualifications. But once again, Steve Wiebe and Billy Mitchell have to participate, no matter what. So again, it doesn't matter what we do, it will draw conspiracy. If you're for it, you're a son of a b*tch. If you're against it, you're a son of a b*tch. I'm not god, I don't have all the answers ;).
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Exactly Vincent..."so you have to be careful about how you share your opinions".
Eddie Rickenbacker, and the Red Baron...that's a whole other story...
= )
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Mike, I sort of know what you're saying, but for someone to put up 1,070,000, that is not an accident. The person knows the game and can play it very well. NO one is guaranteed they will play their best game on that kong off weekend.
For KO1, I scored my first killscreen at 914K, it was one of the few 900K+ games at the time and afterwards I got a call from Richie and an invite. I didn't do well at KO1 at all, but earned my spot.
For KO2, 10 months before the tournament, I managed to be the 4th verified million point game on TG behind (Hank, Billy, and Steve), and that earned me a spot. I've since beaten that score with a 1,026,000 that ended at 21-2, however I didn't submit it.
But, since my 1.015M from last year's qualification is still good, I'm posting it here right now, if I don't increase my score before KO3 and am still valid to go, I will not participate.
Only question I have is: Given there is still 8 months left, and I guess that 1.02M-1.03M will earn you a spot on a dedicated machine, if someone doesn't feel capable of getting that score over an 8 month period with as many tries as you like, why would that person want to compete in the Kong Off and bump someone out who has achieved that score? There has to be some sort of gauge to go by.
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I say make the minimum score 1.05 million, and you're in no matter what. That way it doesn't seem like there is favoritism for Billy Mitchell, and Steve Wiebe. It's not good to have figure head competitors that get in just because of a name. This would be like the U.S. Open still having Jimmy Connors, and John McEnroe participate in the U.S. Open just because of their names. If people set the limit to 1.05 million, than we do not start a bad precedent by having people because of their popularity, and nothing else.
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I say make the minimum score 1.05 million, and you're in no matter what.
That would also put another problem. Chances are that there will be more than 12 people with a score above 1.05m for Kong Off 3/Kong Off 4 (There are already like 8 people with 1.05m+).
And if we say "the minimum score needs to be 1.1m and you're in no matter what", then we would need to make an exception for Billy and Steve.
1.05m+ seems to be the best thing to do, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are 15+ people with that score at Kong Off 3/Kong Off 4. I don't know if Jon Exidy is willing to find other DK machines! haha.
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8 people? I thought there was 7? You, Hank, Dean, Jeff, Steve W., Billy, Mark.
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I said "like 8 people", I didn't know exactly.
However, I think that there are at LEAST 10 people that could get 1.05m+ before Kong Off 3. I think that, ultimately, 1.1m+ will be the criteria for Kong Off 4.
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I said "like 8 people", I didn't know exactly.
However, I think that there are at LEAST 10 people that could get 1.05m+ before Kong Off 3. I think that, ultimately, 1.1m+ will be the criteria for Kong Off 4.
OK, agreed. Also I have a feeling that by the time of the Kong Off 4 Steve Wiebe, and Billy Mitchell may actually retire from competitive Donkey Kong play. Both of them are already legends in Donkey Kong, and by Donkey Kong 4 the field may have already passed them up if they remain stationary with their Donkey Kong high scores. What this means is by the Kong Off 4 they may decide to skip the competition entirely since the chances of them winning become much smaller, and the most likely result is something like a 7th or 8th place finish. In fact I think there is a decent chance Billy Mitchell skips the Kong Off 3, and a decent chance that Steve Wiebe skips the Kong Off 4.
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Yeah, I feel sort of the same way George. However, the way Steve Wiebe is able to pump out million point games is not joke. As long as he can keep that up, he actually is still a serious contender. If he works even just a little bit on his rejumping and top hammer on barrel screens he could be a very formidable contender for 1st almost any day.
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Billy skipping KO3 would not surprise me.
However, I feel like Billy really cares a lot about the gaming community in the "promote it" sense, and will try to make if, and any future Kong Offs, for that reason, not so much to compete at DK.
For Steve, obviously the Donkey Kong thing turned out to be totally life-changing/defining thing for him, and he probably enjoys reconnecting with his "folk hero"/celebrity status at events like this, even if he's not seriously competing at the game anymore.
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Billy will still participate, and so will Steve. Steve enjoys the formula of the Kong Off, I would be extremely surprised if one year he decided not to come.
As for Billy, like Chris said, really care about the gaming community (promoting it, etc). Whether he plays or not at the next Kong Off's, he will be there, I'm pretty sure.
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Well I have said before I think people should have to qualify again. Why? Because if you are one of the top 12 scores then during the "qualifying" period of 10.5 months you will qualify again. I agree that certain people will get automatic invites and that is what golf does. but this needs to have the same mentality as qualifying for the nfl playoffs. Baltimore won the super bowl but if they go 4-12 next year they don't get to the go to the playoffs.
For KO3:
1. Last year Winner
2. Current WR Holder (Arcade and Mame)
3. Billy
4. Steve
Honestly that is it. Afterwards its the Top 7 -9 (for 12 or 14 people) scores from the end of KO2 to 6 weeks prior to KO3 get a dedicate machine. Same should apply for the wildcard machines. If there will be 4 WC machines then the top 8 scores get to do the WC and after the first day its cut down to 4 WC so each gets a dedicated machine for day 2.
Why? This makes it interesting to know that anything could happen. You have to stay active to get to participate and being on the "bubble" will force you to keep pushing. You want to stop sandbagging? Then you have to submit your highest score period. No holding back. If you get caught doing that then your banned from any KO in the future. This prevents getting a 1.08 score that puts you in 12th place but then getting a 1.27 later and just holding onto it. You need to submit it BEFORE someone beats your 1.08. If you don't then sorry it won't be allowed to submit after someone breaks your 1.08 score if it was recorded PRIOR to them submitting their score. [ Think the now infamous Billygate :) ] Keep playing and producing if you want to go again. Otherwise stay home and watch. I really don't understand why people don't like this idea. Top 12 on the TG scoreboard should not be the only grounds for who gets to go but I understand its a TGI event and that maybe the only thing they go by. Still its not hard at all to do what John is suggesting or what I am.
Basically the top scorers are going to put up top scores and qualify year after year if they want to. nuff' said.
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The only thing about the sports analogy vs. video games is that when some one asks in general, who's the top 10 on Donkey Kong, a list is pulled up (from TG's scoreboard for example) and that's the answer. It's never "what's the top 10 scores this year?"
In Mike's earlier scenario about someone having a high score then walking away but are still an automatic qualifier. Other than Billy Mitchell, that scenario really doesn't exist. Players like Kyle Goewart and Shaun Boyd don't stream, and don't really talk about their current game, but they probably are still hard at it.
As for sand bagging, if someone is recording correctly, they need to state the date before each recording session, so you'll know if it's within the time frame.
Basically the top scorers are going to put up top scores and qualify year after year if they want to. nuff' said.
Well that's the truth, that's why I hope the official entry rules will be out soon. I talked to Jourdan and something within the next month should be up. The reason being, I play all my games at a very high pace now 1.1M-1.13M range, if I know I have to re-qualify, I'll back off on my game just to put up the 1.05M. Knowing what to shoot for makes a big difference.
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Well I have said before I think people should have to qualify again. Why? Because if you are one of the top 12 scores then during the "qualifying" period of 10.5 months you will qualify again. I agree that certain people will get automatic invites and that is what golf does. but this needs to have the same mentality as qualifying for the nfl playoffs. Baltimore won the super bowl but if they go 4-12 next year they don't get to the go to the playoffs.
For KO3:
1. Last year Winner
2. Current WR Holder (Arcade and Mame)
3. Billy
4. Steve
Honestly that is it. Afterwards its the Top 7 -9 (for 12 or 14 people) scores from the end of KO2 to 6 weeks prior to KO3 get a dedicate machine. Same should apply for the wildcard machines. If there will be 4 WC machines then the top 8 scores get to do the WC and after the first day its cut down to 4 WC so each gets a dedicated machine for day 2.
Why? This makes it interesting to know that anything could happen. You have to stay active to get to participate and being on the "bubble" will force you to keep pushing. You want to stop sandbagging? Then you have to submit your highest score period. No holding back. If you get caught doing that then your banned from any KO in the future. This prevents getting a 1.08 score that puts you in 12th place but then getting a 1.27 later and just holding onto it. You need to submit it BEFORE someone beats your 1.08. If you don't then sorry it won't be allowed to submit after someone breaks your 1.08 score if it was recorded PRIOR to them submitting their score. [ Think the now infamous Billygate :) ] Keep playing and producing if you want to go again. Otherwise stay home and watch. I really don't understand why people don't like this idea. Top 12 on the TG scoreboard should not be the only grounds for who gets to go but I understand its a TGI event and that maybe the only thing they go by. Still its not hard at all to do what John is suggesting or what I am.
Basically the top scorers are going to put up top scores and qualify year after year if they want to. nuff' said.
I like this idea.. I allso feel it should be this way too keep people playing.
Seems like your top players play DK For like 3 months out of the year... Not putting Vincent and Dean in this group there playing DK Year around .
Love to keep the event fresh!
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Yeah, this would be a good formula. I would enjoy the idea of: 6 weeks prior the Kong Off, people needs to put a X game to participate to the Kong Off.
However, this can be a little bit awkward, depending on the situation.
Like personally, if I don't have the record by then, and if for some reason I can't play on my arcade machine (or even on MAME), and I end up not getting invited because of that, even if I did a 1.15m+ score few months before, I wouldn't be very happy! lol.
Things like that could happen to everyone. For example, If something bad happens in your life (family problems/work/etc), and you don't want to play Donkey Kong because of that (but still want to go play at the Kong Off 3), but end up not getting invited because some sh*t happened in your life and you didn't put a score good enough to participate to the Kong Off 3, even if your personal best is very high, and even if you ranked very high at the last Kong Off's... that would be disappointing.
Obviously, I don't think this kind of thing will happen to someone, but if something like that happens (someone's DK machine breaks, if a MAME player's computer breaks and he can't play on MAME before the Kong Off, you are too busy at work, etc), then I think we would need to take into consideration that.
For example, if Hank doesn't have the record before the Kong Off 3, and he end up not having the energy/time to play enough Donkey Kong to qualify 6 weeks prior the Kong Off 3, then he would go to the Kong Off 3, without participating, just because " he didn't qualify before the Kong Off 3 " despite the fact that he broke the DK record 5 times, was the champion for 2 years, and was the champion in the first Kong Off. That just can't happen, lol. That would be the most ironic thing that could ever happen at the Kong Off, lol.
Personally, if I couldn't participate because I didn't qualify for one of these reasons, it would be way too awkward for me and I would probably not come to the Kong Off.
Ultimately, I think that this formula would be a very good formula. But since DK is a very close and friendly community, we will never be able to apply this formula if, for example, Dean, Hank, me (I don't want to sound cocky by saying myself though!), can't officially qualify because of one of the reasons mentioned above.
Hank: If I can't qualify, please, save my honor, and do a shirtless entrance... I have to keep the tradition! lol.
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I understand what your saying Vince but 10.5 months is a long time. It's not just 6 weeks. Its anytime from KO2 - 6 weeks prior to the next Kong-Off so your 1.15 score would indeed count. You guys keep putting up million point scores in one weekend I think you could/would find the motivation to put up a huge score if it meant you wouldn't be attending the next KO and you really want to go.
I feel I can speak for this objectively since I have almost no chance of making it as a contestant at this time. :)
Your forgetting the rationale that Current WR holders should be attending so Hank and Dean are in by default right now. Jeff is in because he won last year and Steve and Billy because they should be there.
I would say that scores attained at the Kong-Off should also apply as the "current" years scores then. If you put up a 1,100,000 at KO2 then that score counts towards next year for the KO3. If somehow 12 people get higher than 1.14 million+ and break the world record in the process don't you think its "Fair" to have them participate versus anyone else ? I understand how silly and unlikely that concept is but if 14 people game out of nowhere and did that then they should be the ones competing. I think the point is all the past performances are great but do the professional gaming leagues give you an automatic bye or make you compete and win your way back in? AFAIK this is what they do. It's just like I said. You won the Super Bowl/World Series/NBA Championship/Stanley Cup/whatever. This doesn't automatically mean you get to play in the Super Bowl/etc/etc again next year. You gotta earn it year after year. I really don't think you or Hank or Dean or Dave or any of the current top players would have the slightest problem doing this. If you can't find the time to do it almost a year how can you find the time to go to the KO3. :)
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Oh, fk. I thought you said "It starts 6 weeks before the Kong Off", but you said:"From Kong Off 2 to 6 weeks before the Kong Off". My bad, I didn't understand, lol. But yeah, I would prefer that formula (like that, people would need to play throughout the year to "deserve" a spot, and 11.5 months is obviously enough!).
My bad for the big misinterpretation, I thought your idea was only to have 6 weeks to do it (6 weeks before Kong Off 3).
Now, I do agree with it Dan ;-). Having to "regain" a place within 11 months, year after year, is a good way to make people have to play, which is a good thing, like you said.
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Don't forget the 2up! Maybe the overflow can participate there! Or the lower tier players like myself!!! Kidding of course.
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I like the way it is set up now. I don't think anybody wants to travel to Denver just to be eliminated the first day or so. It would be more exciting to see a bracket field, but who wants to be eliminated after only 1-2 matches. I think they should up the # of true contestants to 15, taking the top 15 registered scores of 1 million or more to qualify. Wild card machines were very frustrating to play on, and with all the players, each player only got about 3-4 starts per day. I think they either need to add 3 more machines to the true field, or reduce the wild card machines and have a score cutoff to qualify for that as well. I do like high score wins at the end of the weekend though. Ultimately I would like to see the million pts to get in, and have up to 15 machines for the top 15 players registered, while still providing some wildcard machines with a cutoff to play on wildcard as well. In the end, remember the whole idea of the kong off is to pit the top players in the world against each other for one weekend of battling it out with one player coming out on top. Any player above 1million could potentially win, as we all know that the million pt games aren't every weekend, and this alone makes it anybody's game to win.
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Yeah top 15 would be fine with me as well. Whatever they could accommodate would be awesome. If they could do 20 more power to the event!!
My "eliminated" first day was for the wildcard machines only. Why? Because I think giving the "wildcard" players a full day on a dedicated machine gives them the best chance for success.
Here is the scenarios I would think would be great if you have 4 wildcard machines.
1. You allow up to 8 Wildcard players (Top 8 scores submitted)
2. You just have these 8 people rotate to the next available machine or you block it off to a set amount of time.
Time Based:
1. Assuming Day One is 12pm - 8pm here is the layout.
2 Based on score rankings #5,6,7,8 get to play for 4 hours period. 12pm - 4pm. This way they can restart, etc, whatever but whatever their highest score is at 4pm sharp is the score they get to submit to day two. They must immediately kill off any remaining men at 4pm.
3. Then the #1,2,3,4 scorers get to play. They get to go 2nd to see what scores they need to beat. This is the "advantage" you get by having a higher submitted score.
5. Same scenario you play from 4pm - 8pm and kill off any guys you have at 8pm. Highest score submitted for day 2.
"Start" Based:
1. Assuming Day One is 12pm - 8pm
2. Based on score rankings you have #1,2,3,4 start playing at Noon. No restarts allowed.
3. Once someone dies #5 takes there spot and starts playing. Same goes for #6, #7, #8. You get 10 minutes to show up for your "turn". If you miss it then you are skipped over.
4. In this scenario it is likely that #1, #2 ranked players will most certainly get at least one more "start" then the others but I would concede that this is the privileged of having a higher ranked score. You do this until the "last" coin drop time frame.
I think the start based scenario is better as time based would have people just not bothering to try again at say 3:30pm knowing they could not put up a score worth a dang. Plus this rewards people who have a "higher" submitted score.
Submitted is the key word here. I think it is somewhat easy to confirm the scores and doesn't necessarily have to be TG verified (Course that would be up to them). Just show an INP file or a twitch/youtube video and that should be good enough for the Wildcard machines.
Perhaps even an honor system? Everyone in the "community" generally knows what peoples high scores are anyway.
Wow long post :)
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Looks like the KO3 entry requirements are up in the new TG:
We are proud to announce that “The Kong Off 3†will be held this coming November 15th, 16th, and 17th 2013. This year’s event will return to “The 1up†in Denver, Colorado.
We have increased the amount of machines available for play as well as the prize purse! The KO3 will feature at least 20 DK Machines and over $4500 in cash for the winners.
The Top 12 Twin Galaxies players will qualify to play on their own machine. The format for the “Wild Card†will be released shortly, but we can tell you that a minimum of 8 machines have been dedicated to this division.
Hotel and travel information will be released shortly.
This year’s event is completely free and attendance/capacity will be first come first serve.
Stay tuned to TwinGalaxies.com for more information.
GAME ON!!!
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That's great. I was hoping though that the dedicated machines would be a higher #, as I think it would make for better competition. Everybody over 1 million should be in for sure I think, leaving the rest of the machines for wildcard.
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That's great. I was hoping though that the dedicated machines would be a higher #, as I think it would make for better competition. Everybody over 1 million should be in for sure I think, leaving the rest of the machines for wildcard.
Ultimately it's up to Twin Galaxies, but there are several factors to think about when deciding the format of the Kong Off.
This is their 'flagship' event, and a good way to get people interested/involved in Twin Galaxies. The more wild card machines there are, the more spots there are for "new" and "up and coming" players to play/compete.
Less wild card machines means you are shutting out the general public...and turning an 'open to the public' competition into more of a come-watch-the-top-10-Twin-Galaxies-scoreboard-officially-ranked-Donkey-Kong-players, 'spectacle'.
Something else to consider is the fact that John and Eric are putting on these Wild Card online tournaments now...which seem to be gaining popularity. The first one was a great success, and the second...now that it is open to the general public, will probably have more than double the amount of competitors the first one had...if not triple. The people playing in these may very well also want to try their luck at the KO3...and that'll only be possible if there are more Wild Card machines.
If they want to shut out the general public, and hinder any sort of growth the Kong Off might potentially get...remove wild card machines and just make them dedicated machines...but if they want to expand and grow interest in this event...more wild card machines is the smarter move.
It may be an apples/oranges comparison, but the world series of poker didn't get where it is by only inviting the top 10 players in the world.
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Less wild card machines means you are shutting out the general public...and turning an 'open to the public' competition into more of a come-watch-the-top-10-Twin-Galaxies-scoreboard-officially-ranked-Donkey-Kong-players, 'spectacle'.
The Kong Off was never suppose to be an "open-to-the-public" competition, but an event having the top players in the world go at it. But, KO2 allowed more wildcard players, and KO3 is double the wildcard capacity from KO2. So, it appears to be moving in that direction.
That's the difference between KO1 and KO2. For KO1 it was a huge thing to be one of the players, KO2 it got diluted and made qualifying not that big of a deal. It looks like KO3 will be more diluted with it increasing the wildcard machines to 8. So being one of the 12 that puts up a score instead of just entry money doesn't stand out as much as an accomplishment. I'm still a believer that if you want in you need to put up the score and qualify instead of just $30 entry money. But I'm looking at it from my standpoint since I already qualified twice.
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Less wild card machines means you are shutting out the general public...and turning an 'open to the public' competition into more of a come-watch-the-top-10-Twin-Galaxies-scoreboard-officially-ranked-Donkey-Kong-players, 'spectacle'.
The Kong Off was never suppose to be an "open-to-the-public" competition, but an event having the top players in the world go at it. But, KO2 allowed more wildcard players, and KO3 is double the wildcard capacity from KO2. So, it appears to be moving in that direction.
That's the difference between KO1 and KO2. For KO1 it was a huge thing to be one of the players, KO2 it got diluted and made qualifying not that big of a deal. It looks like KO3 will be more diluted with it increasing the wildcard machines to 8. So being one of the 12 that puts up a score instead of just entry money doesn't stand out as much as an accomplishment. I'm still a believer that if you want in you need to put up the score and qualify instead of just $30 entry money. But I'm looking at it from my standpoint since I already qualified twice.
I agree with what Dave is saying.. KO1 Was about those DK Players that made the event . KO2 Had the last Min Wild Card Players added.. In which for me was a very cool thing .. That i could play in a KO Event .. But it was sooo last min added there was no way i could make the event .
The one thing about Making the Event and not being a Wild Card player is You get your Own DK Machine for the hole event.. Not having to sharing it with many people and getting less time for games.
Hard for me to come to a KO Event thinking i might get 5 games maybe in the hole Event... Sure i want to meet everyone... But there has to be a main goal there!
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Like Jourdan said, there will be AT LEAST 20 machines.
I think it would be the best if there are 16 machines for 16 official participants, and 8 machines for wild card players. That would be insane, lol.
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Like Jourdan said, there will be AT LEAST 20 machines.
I think it would be the best if there are 16 machines for 16 official participants, and 8 machines for wild card players. That would be insane, lol.
The hole arcade would be DK Machines then.... I'm sure they will do it becouse they can sell the machines.
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$4500 for the 'winners'. I wonder if this is possibly alluding to the 2nd and 3rd place prizes (if there are those), or if it is maybe also about something having to do with D2K.
I agree with Vince, 16 main machines and 8 wildcard machines sounds good. I bet Jourdan will still be buying any DK machine he can get his hands on up until close to the actual competition.
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Less wild card machines means you are shutting out the general public...and turning an 'open to the public' competition into more of a come-watch-the-top-10-Twin-Galaxies-scoreboard-officially-ranked-Donkey-Kong-players, 'spectacle'.
The Kong Off was never suppose to be an "open-to-the-public" competition, but an event having the top players in the world go at it. But, KO2 allowed more wildcard players, and KO3 is double the wildcard capacity from KO2. So, it appears to be moving in that direction.
That's the difference between KO1 and KO2. For KO1 it was a huge thing to be one of the players, KO2 it got diluted and made qualifying not that big of a deal. It looks like KO3 will be more diluted with it increasing the wildcard machines to 8. So being one of the 12 that puts up a score instead of just entry money doesn't stand out as much as an accomplishment. I'm still a believer that if you want in you need to put up the score and qualify instead of just $30 entry money. But I'm looking at it from my standpoint since I already qualified twice.
Yeah not sure what to think about having so many "wildcard" machines Dave. I guess it helps draw people to the event but I came to both because I wanted to and will try and go again. Some part of me says why not just let the people who score more than 1 million compete and whatever is leftover is wildcard machines. Why not forgo the "wildcard" aspect altogether? Have the million point players compete and then the others can play on the remaining machines just for fun. Isn't the point of the competition for the top players in the world to go head to head (I guess tho no one really thinks the wildcarders have a chance aside from Ross). I still think it should be necessary qualify every year which is not anything new from me :). Are people really concerned they couldn't do it? 24/7/365 DK'n baby!!! :D
Whatever the case I hope they trim the field for wildcard players on day 2 to one per machine then if they have to many.