Donkey Kong Forum
Streaming => Streaming Events => Topic started by: marinomitch13 on March 31, 2014, 12:20:43 am
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Ok guys, the games have been picked! They are: Bubbles and Tutankham!
Now, the point of this endeavor is to have good competition while also helping everyone improve at the games. Feel free to share knowledge that you've acquired here, in this thread, as we go along.
The "tournament" starts tomorrow, April 1st, and runs until June 31st at midnight (3 months), so you have plenty of time to get in games and slowly (or quickly!) improve. All scores can be either attached here in this thread or posted on a CAG scoreboard site such as MARP/Retro Uprising (preferably both linked here and posted somewhere else) and I will keep a running list of the leaders. Please at least post here to inform us when a score is achieved so that you can point us to MARP/Retro Uprising (if you only submit the inp there). If anyone plays on arcade, please either stream the game and post the link or else post a picture of the final score here and we will hopefully be able to accept the score using the honor system (if something is obviously fishy, it may be rejected). Please play the parent rom version for both games on the TG settings (hopefully this is also equivalent to the true default settings *EDIT* It is not! See here (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=839.msg14958#msg14958) *EDIT*). If there is any confusion or questions about the roms, please ask them here, and I would call upon people more knowledgeable than myself in these areas to help me figure out any difficult problems.
As of right now there is no prize except for bragging rights, but monetary prizes may arise in the future. The main point is to push one another and have fun, so game on!
Bubbles TGMS Scores
1. 396,790 (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=839.msg15865#msg15865) Dalar (MAME)
2. 192,960 (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=839.msg15019#msg15019) Andrew Barrow (MAME)
3. 72,670 (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=839.msg15859#msg15859) Jeremy Young (MAME)
4.
5.
Tutankham TGMS Scores
1. 65,000 (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=839.msg15859#msg15859) Jeremy Young (MAME)
2.
3.
4.
5.
Tutankham TGTS Scores
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
PLEASE NOTE!!!:
Pre-MAME 0.145 default settings for Tutankham are 1/easy, so you'll have to change the setting to 2/normal for TGMS or to 4/hardest for TGTS! Post-MAME0.145 default settings are 2/normal, so you only have to change it for TGTS.
Also, MAME currently allows the firing of lasers in Tutankham in both directions simultaneously. This tactic is disallowed for this "tourney", but since this isn't some hardcore tournament, there will be leniency given if the tactic is employed in a way that appears to be unintentional -especially if it has no real bearing on the attempt. If something iffy comes up, we will collaborate on the specific issue as a group. Again, the main point is just for everyone to get better and have fun while playing in good faith.
Lastly, obvious rules apply such as no pausing or slowing down the game speed.
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Hey Mitch is it alright if we play the games at Retro Uprising and post the pic here or something?
Cheers
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Sure, that's fine as well! I'll add that to the first post.
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Please play the parent rom version for both games on the TG settings (hopefully this is also equivalent to the true default settings). If there is any confusion or questions about the roms, please as them here, and I would call upon people more knowledgeable than myself in these areas to help me figure any difficult problems.
We should probably make a clarification on Tutankham. TG has 3 separate tracks with conflicting information in the DIPs for one track. MAME versions before 0.145 have different default settings than MAME versions 0.145 and later.
| Setting | | Factory | | TGTS - Arcade | | TGMS - Arcade | | TGTS - MAME | | Pre-MAME 0.145 | | Post-MAME 0.144 |
| Lives | | 3 | | 3 | | 3 | | 3 | | 3 | | 3 |
| Cabinet | | Upright | | Upright/Cocktail | | Upright/Cocktail | | Upright | | Upright | | Upright |
| Bonus | | 30,000 | | 30,000 | | 30,000 | | 30,000 | | 30,000 | | 30,000 |
| Difficulty | | 2 | | 2 or 4* | | 2 | | Hardest* | | Easy* | | Normal |
| Flash Bomb | | 1 Per Life | | 1 Per Game, Extra at 30k | | 1 Per Life | | 1 Per Life | | 1 Per Life | | 1 Per Life |
| Demo Sounds | | On | | On | | On | | no specification | | On | | On |
| Coin A or Coin 1 | | 1 Coin/1 Play | | 1 Coin/1 Play | | 1 Coin/1 Play | | no specification | | 1 Coin/1 Play | | 1 Coin/1 Play |
| Coin B or Coin 2 | | 1 Coin/1 Play | | 1 Coin/1 Play | | 1 Coin/1 Play | | no specification | | 1 Coin/1 Play | | 1 Coin/1 Play |
*TG explicitly lists the difficulty as 2 for TGTS, but gives DIPs that would set the game to difficulty 4 (ON-ON). The factory manual (http://www.gamesdbase.com/Media/SYSTEM/Arcade//Manual/formated/Tutankham_-_1982_-_Konami.pdf) lists difficulty 1 as "easy" and 4 as "difficult." MAME lists them in order as Easy-Normal-Hard-Hardest.
Also, MAME currently allows you to fire the laser in both directions simultaneously, something not possible on the original cab. This should be fixed in the next release (0.153), but we should have some rule or guideline against that for now.
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Thanks, Jeremy! I figured someone would let me know if they noticed something was up. How about this: We track both TGTS an TGMS for arcade and MAME. Everyone needs to play TGMS on difficulty 2/normal and the TGTS on difficulty 4/Hardest. Sound good? So, if people use a MAME that is pre-MAME0.145, they'll need to change their difficulty settings no matter what, but if they are playing post-MAME0.145, then they'll only need to change it for tournament settings.
This brings up if we want to do some sort of TGTS sort of thing for Bubbles as well... is there some sort of 5-man track? I know the game is not really marathonable, but I was just wondering.
Also, Zerst brought up the fact that the MAME emulation of Bubbles is much harder (was this for all versions?), so I'm thinking we'll need to track the Arcade and MAME separately for that title (I was gonna mark up what platform scores are achieved on anyway, but it'll just have added importance if this is the case). If everything is good, I'll switch up the first post to align with these facts.
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Just saw your edit about firing both directions... I will mark that this is disallowed in the first post as well.
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Bubbles 96890
(http://www.third.arcadeox.com/g/users/21/21068/coin-op_scores/bubbles-1396263868.png)
lit? <Allen>
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OK, so we've got just a short while until this thing starts. We'll have the start/end time on central time for my sake, so that means we begin in like 22 mins. Who's gonna stream some?!!!
As far as verifying scores, let's try to work together and disperse the load, since I will be starting up a new job soon. I will probably keep a list of submitted scores that need to verified and remove them as they are dealt with.
Lastly, quick question: I know how to view inps, but how does one actually check to make sure the wfl file matches up and check for total time and whatnot -you know, make sure there's now actual fishy stuff going on that you can't just see by watching the inp? Scott, Jeremy, any help?
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Lastly, quick question: I know how to view inps, but how does one actually check to make sure the wfl file matches up and check for total time and whatnot -you know, make sure there's now actual fishy stuff going on that you can't just see by watching the inp? Scott, Jeremy, any help?
WolfMAME106 comes with two executables: wlfview and wlfview32. The first is a command-line version. To use it, make sure the INP and WLF are both in the the main WolfMAME106 folder/directory you're using and type "wlfview <inpname.wlf> <inpname.inp>", where "inpname" is the name of the files you're trying to verify. For wlfview32, just double-click it and it will run through a GUI where you can select the files you want. Both will versions will give you info on the version of MAME, the operating system the game was played on, the number of frames and recorded speed, and whether the INP matches the WLF file. The command-line version will also tell you if cheats were enabled, but I'm not sure the GUI version will tell you that.
For total time in WolfMAME106, you'll actually have to calculate it from the numbers of frames yourself. They added in a hh:mm:ss.00 clock in later versions of MAME, but I'm not sure which version it starts with.
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Excellent! Thank you very much!
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Damn I thought the comp had started when I posted that score above (it was actually the 1st April here, but not for you guys yet)
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Sorry, I should have clarified that right away. Don't worry, with 3 more months it's almost certain you'll not only beat your score but crush it as well.
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Yer buddy. Marky D's 260k is goin down!
Kreygasm
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So what's the deal with the cleaning lady in Bubbles? I only manage to pick up the broom from that witch about negative infinity percent of the time. BibleThump
Do you have to hit her when she's facing you or something? There must be a system to consistently get that broom.
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Yeah that old grandma is pretty selective with that damn rake or broom or whatever it is
192960
Love it?
(http://www.third.arcadeox.com/g/users/21/21068/coin-op_scores/bubbles-1396434599.png)
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So what's the deal with the cleaning lady in Bubbles? I only manage to pick up the broom from that witch about negative infinity percent of the time.
Well, supposedly if you touch the part of the sprite that is the broom first you will get it, but I swear I do that and don't get it 20% of the time, so I dunno. If you learn to anticipate when she exits the drain, you can position yourself right outside the lip of the drain and get is nearly every time for some reason.
A tip for those not aware: In regards to growing your bubble, ants are worth a little more than the crums and the oils spots.
Mitch, I understand you are accepting arcade scores as well in the competition. Keep in mind that, like many Williams titles, you will experience a slowdown in the gameplay when the game has to draw a lot of sprites using the arcade hardware which doesn't happen on MAME. Also, the arcade uses a 49-way (I think it's 49, same as Sinistar) which is of course superior to playing on MAME with an 8-way. So, if you play on arcade you are playing at a distinct advantage. For instance, my pb on MAME is just over 300k after many (like over 100) attempts, but when I played on arcade I got over 400k on just 2 tries.
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So what's the deal with the cleaning lady in Bubbles? I only manage to pick up the broom from that witch about negative infinity percent of the time.
Well, supposedly if you touch the part of the sprite that is the broom first you will get it, but I swear I do that and don't get it 20% of the time, so I dunno. If you learn to anticipate when she exits the drain, you can position yourself right outside the lip of the drain and get is nearly every time for some reason.
A tip for those not aware: In regards to growing your bubble, ants are worth a little more than the crums and the oils spots.
Mitch, I understand you are accepting arcade scores as well in the competition. Keep in mind that, like many Williams titles, you will experience a slowdown in the gameplay when the game has to draw a lot of sprites using the arcade hardware which doesn't happen on MAME. Also, the arcade uses a 49-way (I think it's 49, same as Sinistar) which is of course superior to playing on MAME with an 8-way. So, if you play on arcade you are playing at a distinct advantage. For instance, my pb on MAME is just over 300k after many (like over 100) attempts, but when I played on arcade I got over 400k on just 2 tries.
I can confirm that there is a very noticeable difference in the speed of gameplay between MAME and arcade but Bubbles cabs use an optical 8-way joystick. It is not 49-way like Sinistar.
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Also, the arcade uses a 49-way (I think it's 49, same as Sinistar) which is of course superior to playing on MAME with an 8-way.
Nope. Bubbles used an 8-way optical joystick. The 49-way was used on Blaster and Sinistar. Common misperception that gets repeated often, likely because of the feel of the optical stick and the programming that makes your bubble feel slippery on the sink.
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Andrew, are you submitting this score? Would you happen to have the inp, or did you submit it to a scoreboard that verified it? The "only using screenshot" option was mainly meant for people who played on arcade and didn't have a chance to stream their game -and even then it was to be open to be discussed by the group as a whole as to whether or not the score seemed genuine.
Yeah, Mark, thanks for confirming my suspicions. Zerst had made a comment like this in another thread, that's why I'm gonna be listing what platform scores were achieved on. I may actually fully separate the lists if we get a big enough number of good arcade scores, but for right now I'm running on the assumption that most everyone will end up playing on MAME.
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Oh yeah its on RU and also I was streaming at the time. Ill highlight any scores I submit. Disregard this one if you want.
Cheers
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Ah, ok. Do I need to sign in to see the score on RU? Haha, I gotta try to remember my account info for over there... time to play the password guessing game! <YSG>
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Hasnt been approved yet unfortunately but once its approved you dont have to sign in to see the scoreboard
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I watched the 192k game live on Twitch, if that means anything.
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Ok, cool. Adding to the list. I trust it was normal settings(?). If not, we'll find out when RU looks at it.
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Nope. Bubbles used an 8-way optical joystick. The 49-way was used on Blaster and Sinistar. Common misperception that gets repeated often, likely because of the feel of the optical stick and the programming that makes your bubble feel slippery on the sink.
Well, fk. Thanks for the info. Yeah, I've read that a few places, sorry for perpetuating that falsehood.
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I have been playing some tut on my mame cab at a mates house, best so far is 24,000 or so,
But yesterday afternoon I noticed it was a 3 button game and I only have 2 on my cab,
Once I hook something up I can see if the lightning will help boost my score.
Not sure of the difficulty settings it's on but it's 3 man for lives.
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I have been playing some tut on my mame cab at a mates house, best so far is 24,000 or so,
But yesterday afternoon I noticed it was a 3 button game and I only have 2 on my cab,
Once I hook something up I can see if the lightning will help boost my score.
Not sure of the difficulty settings it's on but it's 3 man for lives.
Tut is actually a dual joystick (and one button) game - one 4-way for movement, one 2-way for fire, and one button for the lamp bomb thingy.
MAMEdev only recently became aware of this and changed its configuration. Now, while it's not really important how you set things up to play on MAME, it is important to note that with the button configuration for fire, a player can shoot both directions at once, which of course is not possible with a joystick configuration.
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Ok, cool. Adding to the list. I trust it was normal settings(?). If not, we'll find out when RU looks at it.
Every game on RU is default settings which you cant change in score mode. Score mode is the only way to submit to the scoreboard
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Thanks for explaining these things about RU to me... I'm afraid I haven't done my homework and gotten to know that site very well (I have nothing against it, just haven't checked it out much).
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No probs just let me know if you have any questions about it.
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I have been playing some tut on my mame cab at a mates house, best so far is 24,000 or so,
But yesterday afternoon I noticed it was a 3 button game and I only have 2 on my cab,
Once I hook something up I can see if the lightning will help boost my score.
Not sure of the difficulty settings it's on but it's 3 man for lives.
Tut is actually a dual joystick (and one button) game - one 4-way for movement, one 2-way for fire, and one button for the lamp bomb thingy.
MAMEdev only recently became aware of this and changed its configuration. Now, while it's not really important how you set things up to play on MAME, it is important to note that with the button configuration for fire, a player can shoot both directions at once, which of course is not possible with a joystick configuration.
Thanks for that Ross
That changes things abit. I can't add a second joystick but I might put the lighting on the two buttons being pushed simultaniesly.
Does this mean it would be possible to shoot both directions on the original arcade hardware if you swapped the second two way joystick for buttons?
Would be interesting to find out.
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I gave Bubbles a bit of a play last night. Had never played before. I usually don't like games that require only one hand but this one is pretty fun. I didn't record any games but I managed to crack 100k a couple of times making it to sink 15. It seems almost all of my deaths come from finishing a sink with my bubble not big enough and running into the spider with the broom (or whatever it is) pointing in the wrong direction. Both of these types of deaths are very frustrating. You run around the sink collecting everything in sight and then all of a sudden the level ends and you die. In reading back, maybe going after the ants more will help with this.
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A tip for those not aware: In regards to growing your bubble, ants are worth a little more than the crums and the oils spots.
I did some quick investigating with the MAME debugger and this is true. From what I can tell, your bubble always starts at the same size and always has to grow to the same size to get the mouth. If you assign values to the size of the bubble and the amounts by which it grows or shrinks for cleaning/colliding it look something like this:
Base value for size: 0
Minimum size needed for mouth: +1536
Crumbs: +45
Grease: +60
Ants: +70
Cleaning Lady: +128 alone and +the combined value of objects she has swept up
Killing a roach with the broom: +256
Colliding with brush/sponge: -256
It also appears that some of the value assigned to size will carry over into the next sink, but your starting size on the next sink can only be between 0 and 255. The bonus points at the end of the sink are based on how many multiples of 256 your bubble has grown beyond the 1536 needed for the mouth.
This kind of stuff is probably impossible to count on-the-fly, but it highlights two important things for me: 1) Grab as much as junk as you can early so it doesn't go down the drain. 2) Make sure you grab the Cleaning Lady before she disappears, otherwise she takes the size-growing junk (and points) with her.
EDIT: Determined that killing roaches also adds to bubble size, and added the value to the above list. Also I suck at hexadecimal.
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Bubbles: 147,520 on sink 17 w/ PS2 pad :)
Bubbles: 214,820 on sink 20+ w/ joystick :)
Bubbles: 267,950 on sink 32 w/ PS2 pad :)
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Nice score Daniel. love it!
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Nice! I'll hopefully have time to verify the inp tonight, then add it to the HSL. <YSG>
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Submitting a sh*t score for Tutankham.
Tutankham - TGMS (MAME)
47,240
WolfMAME 0.153
MARP leaderboard for Tutankham (http://replay.marpirc.net/r/tutankhm)
MARP INP (http://replay.marpirc.net/inp/1/a/6/jpy_tutankhm_47240_wolf153.zip)
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1 out of 3 months is down! Just a reminder that there are only 2 months left on this!
I know Ross is intending of getting his mame setup with xarcade for Tut, but it'd be cool to see others play these games as well on twitch!
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Submitting a slightly less sh*t score for Tutankham.
Tutankham - TGMS (MAME)
60,240 (Stage 4)
WolfMAME 0.153
MARP leaderboard for Tutankham (http://replay.marpirc.net/r/tutankhm)
MARP INP (http://replay.marpirc.net/inp/6/e/e/jpy_tutankhm_60240_wolf153.zip)
Twitch highlight (http://www.twitch.tv/xelnia_games/c/4200814)
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Tutankham - TGMS (MAME)
65,000 (Stage 4)
WolfMAME 0.153
MARP leaderboard for Tutankham (http://replay.marpirc.net/r/tutankhm)
MARP INP (http://replay.marpirc.net/inp/0/d/1/jpy_tutankhm_65000_wolf153.zip)
Twitch highlight (http://www.twitch.tv/xelnia_games/c/4207450)
Bubbles
72,670
WolfMAME 0.153
MARP leaderboard for Bubbles (http://replay.marpirc.net/r/bubbles)
MARP INP (http://replay.marpirc.net/inp/a/c/7/jpy_bubbles_72670_wolf153.zip)
Twitch highlight (http://www.twitch.tv/xelnia_games/c/4207485)
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Cool Jeremy :)
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Bubbles: 396,790 on sink 53 w/ PS2 D-pad :o
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Bubbles: 396,790 on sink 53 w/ PS2 D-pad :o
Kreygasm Kreygasm Kreygasm
Get some buddy!
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Gonna check these out and update the list shortly. Well done, guys!
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I've increased my Tut PB to 71k, but I'm going to hold off on submitting for awhile until I can 1) clear stage 4 consistently and 2) get some answers regarding game settings in this TG thread (http://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/139034-Tutankham-Settings).
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BUMP!
Everyone read Jry's Tut Tutorial HERE (https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?topic=911.msg16431#new) and get to playing and submitting! ;) Competition ends on the 31st of June!
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Only a couple days left on this. Not too much participation, but lots of learning was had on Tut. I wasn't expecting too much the first time around. I'm thinking that this Game Bashing tourney might be a better way to conjure up the DKF players to put up scores on different titles -as that was the main point at my feeble attempt. Definitely a lot more incentive when different sites are competing. My idea may have to bow out (which I wouldn't mind) if the organizers of those Bashing tourneys succeed and are willing to keep organizing more tourneys after this first one. Lovit!
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I never really tied up this thread. Basically, it seems to me that it would be a lot better to simply go with the IBGY events instead of doing just these DKF ones. They seem to achieve the ultimate purpose this proposed idea was meant to meet as well as they are a lot more inclusive and exciting.
If anyone has any objections to me just letting this idea go, let me know (though, I'd really rather let it go ;D ... the guys who organized the IGBY event did a lot better job at organizing and coordinating their event than I could ever hope of doing for this sort of event... props to them!).
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it would be a lot better to simply go with the IBGY events
I'm guessing that IBGY refers to the Internet Bashing Goat of the Year.
Quite a few nominees for that one, based on shoutbox commentary alone. ;)
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Haha. Yes. Bashing goats. ;D