Donkey Kong Forum

General Donkey Kong Discussion => General Donkey Kong Discussion => Topic started by: bh on February 02, 2019, 04:45:33 am

Title: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: bh on February 02, 2019, 04:45:33 am
Edit: This post is out of date, please see our Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/snektronix).

Sock Master, Tanner and I are pleased to announce the Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC converter. This card is designed to be the easiest solution for getting direct capture up and running on your cab: just plug it in to your PCB and run a cable to a NTSC USB dongle. Image quality is better than the 2bit card and it's easier to use than the JROK card. Mr. Video has great color fidelity and low fringing.

Features

Production board (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/321327417383714816/541446228374978561/JPEG_20190202_213343.jpg)
Prototype image (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/431880613843435521/536934512081371147/DSCF3732.JPG)
Remix example (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/431880613843435521/538164884966342658/svideo_capture.png)
DK Remix Video (https://clips.twitch.tv/HonestRichWerewolfDAESuppy)
Spooky Remix Video (https://clips.twitch.tv/FriendlyTenuousFlamingoStoneLightning)
DK Jr Video (https://clips.twitch.tv/GrossMushyLadiesKlappa)

They're priced at $82 plus $5 shipping to anywhere in the US (ex. one for $87, two for $169). Shipping to other countries will use the actual shipping cost. Due to Chinese New Year our stock of parts is limited and the cards will be available on a first-come basis. I expect the first batch to ship in 2-3 weeks. Let us know if you need cards urgently or have a large order. There are some alternative suppliers we can use with an up charge. Please PM me if you're interested in buying.
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: Lyriell on February 02, 2019, 10:56:14 pm
I'd be interested in buying one! (AUS)
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: danman123456 on February 04, 2019, 05:58:41 pm
Absolutely interested. Some for KO7 (Believe im going) and myself please. KO7 is Mar 15th. Sent you a PM as well.

Thanks!
Dan
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: danman123456 on February 06, 2019, 11:16:24 am
I'll order 1 right now so I can use it at home. Sent the PM just let me know who to pay/etc and I will as I know your busy :D

Thanks,
Dan
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: YesAffinity on February 06, 2019, 02:53:45 pm
I'm interested.  Sent a PM yesterday, no response yet.
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: Sock Master on February 06, 2019, 04:26:19 pm
bh is in the process of assembling and soldering the first set of the production boards.  I have an earlier prototype and it works fine but we have to make sure the production boards are fine too.  bh doesn't have a way to test them yet but he will soon.

Once we're sure everything is good, they can start going out to people who'd like one.

Thanks!

Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: danman123456 on February 06, 2019, 06:16:32 pm
Cool beans sir.
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: hooch66 on February 07, 2019, 12:05:45 pm
This is really great work here fellas.
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: bh on February 07, 2019, 04:46:19 pm
As Sock said, I'm putting these together as fast as possible. So far I've got five completed. Test equipment is due to arrive on Saturday and then I can start mailing them out. I appreciate everyone's interest and patience. 2019 will finally be the year of Linux on the desktop direct capture.
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: Majesticone on February 08, 2019, 09:41:20 am
I assume I can plug this in between my vector labs switcher and edge connector to get the video from all the boards?
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: YesAffinity on February 08, 2019, 10:21:44 am
I assume I can plug this in between my vector labs switcher and edge connector to get the video from all the boards?
I believe that's what is implied here:

Pass-through design. Plugs into the edge connector and provides its own edge connector.
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: JAM on February 08, 2019, 02:28:00 pm
I'll take one!
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: Sock Master on February 09, 2019, 06:51:31 pm
I hooked up my prototype to Mario Bros and that works.  Here's a snapshot of the capture.

I also tried Popeye but the jury is still out about that one.  I got Popeye to display on my TV but my GV-USB2 video capture device did not recognize the video signal.  I suspect maybe Popeye's video frequencies might be a little too far from NTSC specifications so your mileage may vary depending on what you connect it to.
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: YesAffinity on February 09, 2019, 07:16:57 pm
Looks great there!  So, vertical games are working with no problem, but 1 out of 2 horizontal games are a challenge?

This is the DK Forum after all, so are all DK's confirmed working?
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: Sock Master on February 11, 2019, 09:28:17 am
Looks great there!  So, vertical games are working with no problem, but 1 out of 2 horizontal games are a challenge?

This is the DK Forum after all, so are all DK's confirmed working?

I don't have a DK3 PCB to test this, but given that DK/DKJr/Mario Bros/DK3 are all iterations of the same hardware design it's safe to assume that DK3 will work just fine.   Popeye on the other hand is not a variant of DK hardware and outputs higher resolution interlaced video so perhaps there is something about it that gives different results - maybe the horizontal scan frequency is further from NTSC specification, something like that..  The output worked when I connected it to a TV but maybe it was just different enough for my GV-USB2 capture device not to accept it.  I'll try doing more tests when I can, and maybe it does work fine with other video capture devices, but for now it seems maybe it won't work with Popeye.
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: danman123456 on February 14, 2019, 08:48:35 am
Great news just let me know where and what to pay :)  thanks!
As Sock said, I'm putting these together as fast as possible. So far I've got five completed. Test equipment is due to arrive on Saturday and then I can start mailing them out. I appreciate everyone's interest and patience. 2019 will finally be the year of Linux on the desktop direct capture.
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: Sock Master on March 03, 2019, 07:21:23 pm
Now that I have a few Mr. Video boards put together and tested I figured I'd post a sample of captured frames.

Both were captured using the same generic GV-USB2 capture device.
On the left is a captured frame using a composite video connection.  On the right is a frame captured using an svideo connection.

Composite looks a bit better in motion than this single frame but it's not as sharp as using an svideo connection.  Both Mr. Video and the GV-USB2 device support svideo, just have to use an svideo cable to get the sharper image quality.
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: ChrisP on March 04, 2019, 12:21:02 am
I'd actually be interested in this not just for capture, but simply as a way to easily output to a standard VGA monitor (with the RCA or S-Video cable going into a VGA adapter like this (https://www.zoro.com/monoprice-vga-to-svideorca-adapter-cable-black-2509/i/G4474662/feature-product?gclid=Cj0KCQiAtvPjBRDPARIsAJfZz0oFEgAElc2g-AhnqL50wpr9pJtUXSssO03TH4sfVqDVaNix2tEYz4MaAqqiEALw_wcB)).

IMO, you might actually end up selling more of these to Nintendo cab owners for THAT purpose rather than for capturing. The ability to connect a Nintendo PCB to any CRT or LCD computer monitor that has VGA-in is an item on a lot of arcade folks' want lists. It's just a helluva lot easier than dealing with the Sanyo 20EZ. In fact, you might want to consider a future edition of this card that skips the RCA/S-Video out entirely and just have a direct VGA or HDMI out instead (though obviously outputting digital video via HDMI would be a whole ball of wax).

Also very excited to not have to use the awful, awful buzzy sound amp on the Sanyo 20EZ. It's almost worth it for that alone.

I'll try doing more tests when I can, and maybe it does work fine with other video capture devices, but for now it seems maybe it won't work with Popeye.

nooooooo.....
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: danman123456 on March 04, 2019, 05:29:50 pm
Absolutely but the audio would be an issue wouldnt it? Still im seriously just considering this vs trying to recap my monitor and all that. HDMI has to be licensed IIRC but yeah Svideo to VGA is something im strongly considering as well vs trying to use the GBS-82xx or my RGB to NTSC. :D

 
I'd actually be interested in this not just for capture, but simply as a way to easily output to a standard VGA monitor (with the RCA or S-Video cable going into a VGA adapter like this (https://www.zoro.com/monoprice-vga-to-svideorca-adapter-cable-black-2509/i/G4474662/feature-product?gclid=Cj0KCQiAtvPjBRDPARIsAJfZz0oFEgAElc2g-AhnqL50wpr9pJtUXSssO03TH4sfVqDVaNix2tEYz4MaAqqiEALw_wcB)).

IMO, you might actually end up selling more of these to Nintendo cab owners for THAT purpose rather than for capturing. The ability to connect a Nintendo PCB to any CRT or LCD computer monitor that has VGA-in is an item on a lot of arcade folks' want lists. It's just a helluva lot easier than dealing with the Sanyo 20EZ. In fact, you might want to consider a future edition of this card that skips the RCA/S-Video out entirely and just have a direct VGA or HDMI out instead (though obviously outputting digital video via HDMI would be a whole ball of wax).

Also very excited to not have to use the awful, awful buzzy sound amp on the Sanyo 20EZ. It's almost worth it for that alone.

I'll try doing more tests when I can, and maybe it does work fine with other video capture devices, but for now it seems maybe it won't work with Popeye.

nooooooo.....
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: mameshane on March 04, 2019, 05:53:30 pm
im interested in getting one of these also. :) whats a good capture card to use with it?
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: Lyriell on March 04, 2019, 09:35:45 pm
That S-video looks sexy.
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: Flobeamer1922 on March 04, 2019, 09:53:05 pm
im interested in getting one of these also. :) whats a good capture card to use with it?
A popular capture card among retro speedrunners is the GV-USB2, which can capture both composite and s-video output.
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: mameshane on March 05, 2019, 01:11:29 am
thanks flo that looks perfect. can use that for consoles too :D
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: bh on March 05, 2019, 03:52:49 pm
Hey, just wanted to update everyone. I spent about two weeks laid up with a horrible flu, which put a cramp in things. The parts I was waiting on finally came in from China. Thanks for your patience, we're building the cards as fast as we can.
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: bh on March 26, 2019, 05:21:21 pm
It's been a while and I know folks are excited to get their hands on a card. Where are we at? If you've messaged me, you're in the list and will get a board as they become available. I got a DK board yesterday (thanks, JC), but I'm waiting on a power supply. I just burned my face on molten metal and plan on taking a few days off from tinkering.
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: Majesticone on March 26, 2019, 05:43:36 pm
Thanks for keeping us informed. I ordered all my cables and capture card so I'm ready when I get the message my card is ready!
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: JAM on March 26, 2019, 08:05:04 pm
Looking forward to getting my hands on a couple of them.  Thanks for doing all of the work on this.  It's funny how everyone on Twitch always thinks direct capture is MAME.
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: jimbodeanny on April 19, 2019, 07:51:40 am
Any plans to make something like this that would work with Nintendo VS boards? Would love to have something like this for my Red Tent!
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: YesAffinity on May 11, 2019, 08:32:19 am
Got my Mr. Video on Thursday.  Immediately pulled my cab off the wall, ripped out the bundle of wires and boards that was my previous direct feed solution, and plugged on the Mr. Video with much greater elegance.  Initial tests were unsuccessful with with a Magewell Pro HDMI internal capture card and a crappy $20 USB capture card from the local electronics store (probably 5 years old at this point).  On the magewell, the image shakes up/down significantly.  On the crappy usb device, there is significant snow and interference in the image.

This is nothing to be faulted toward the Mr. Video.  We all (those of interested in such things) should know by now that the Nintendo game board frequency and sync is a bit messy.  Great when confined to the analog world, but gets a bit dicey when transitioning that signal to a digital world.  It was always hit or miss with my jrok-based direct feed setup, having tested across many different capture devices and other intermediate scalers/mutlipliers (like the OSSC, which simply would not properly handle the signal - via jrok transcoding nor direct RGB).

So, I ordered the GV-USB2 which others have confirmed to work.  And, great success:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/423420784

Never mind the mediocre gameplay...I'm rusty.  But now I've got a new toy in the mix and new incentive to rededicate some time. :D

One question which I'm wondering if others have had any luck solving: The GV-USB2 handles the incoming signal as 480i.  As such, it then deinterlaces the signal which of course results in undesirable combing (compared to what could be a very clean native progressive signal).  Has anyone had any luck forcing the GV-USB2 to treat the Mr. Video output as a true progressive signal?
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: Sock Master on May 11, 2019, 09:40:18 am
One question which I'm wondering if others have had any luck solving: The GV-USB2 handles the incoming signal as 480i.  As such, it then deinterlaces the signal which of course results in undesirable combing (compared to what could be a very clean native progressive signal).  Has anyone had any luck forcing the GV-USB2 to treat the Mr. Video output as a true progressive signal?

Yes - and it took me a while to figure it out because it's really not intuitive..  If you right click on GV-USB2 in OBS's list of sources then set 'deinterlacing' to 'Yadif 2x', it will process the incoming video into 60fps progressive.  The default 'disabled' setting counter-intuitively results in 30fps deinterlaced video full of combing artifacts.

(https://donkeykongforum.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2494.0;attach=5195;image)
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: YesAffinity on May 11, 2019, 11:34:57 am
Brilliant! Thanks socks!
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: bh on June 20, 2019, 12:51:52 pm
We just received a shipment of Mr. Video boards from our manufacturer in Canada. I'll be contacting those of you on the backorder list to arrange payment.
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: tilt on June 28, 2019, 07:49:00 pm
This is our temporary storefront for the Mr. Video board.  Orders can still be placed through the forums, but we think this will simplify the purchase process.

https://www.facebook.com/Snektronix/

 <snek>
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: Simpsons99 on May 21, 2022, 07:21:18 pm
how does this work?  cables must go to a computer and you stream it that way?
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: jammvyy on May 21, 2022, 08:51:45 pm
the card puts out analog Audio and analog Component video via rca jack`s . you need a capture device for your computer to plug the RCA cables in to,,, https://www.facebook.com/snektronix/photos/a.453557482130693/453557192130722 
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: raulito on May 23, 2022, 11:09:23 am
Edit: This post is out of date, please see our Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/snektronix).

Sock Master, Tanner and I are pleased to announce the Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC converter. This card is designed to be the easiest solution for getting direct capture up and running on your cab: just plug it in to your PCB and run a cable to a NTSC USB dongle. Image quality is better than the 2bit card and it's easier to use than the JROK card. Mr. Video has great color fidelity and low fringing.

Features
  • Designed for DK, DK Jr, DK3, Mario Bros, Radarscope. Probably compatible with Popeye and Sky Skipper.
  • S-video and composite video (NTSC 240P video @60.60fps)
  • A high quality inverter
  • Sync pulse correction
  • Audio out
  • Pass-through design. Plugs into the edge connector and provides its own edge connector.
  • No soldering required.
  • Compact design: ~3.5in x 2.5 in
  • All analog design for lag free operation

Production board (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/321327417383714816/541446228374978561/JPEG_20190202_213343.jpg)
Prototype image (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/431880613843435521/536934512081371147/DSCF3732.JPG)
Remix example (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/431880613843435521/538164884966342658/svideo_capture.png)
DK Remix Video (https://clips.twitch.tv/HonestRichWerewolfDAESuppy)
Spooky Remix Video (https://clips.twitch.tv/FriendlyTenuousFlamingoStoneLightning)
DK Jr Video (https://clips.twitch.tv/GrossMushyLadiesKlappa)

They're priced at $82 plus $5 shipping to anywhere in the US (ex. one for $87, two for $169). Shipping to other countries will use the actual shipping cost. Due to Chinese New Year our stock of parts is limited and the cards will be available on a first-come basis. I expect the first batch to ship in 2-3 weeks. Let us know if you need cards urgently or have a large order. There are some alternative suppliers we can use with an up charge. Please PM me if you're interested in buying.

Sorry to tell this, but, unfortunately, clips that are related to Donkey Kong Recordings (Arcade Machines) are no longer available.
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: Sock Master on May 24, 2022, 11:48:44 am
how does this work?  cables must go to a computer and you stream it that way?

Mr. Video plugs into the edge connector on a DK PCB and it has audio, composite video and svideo jacks on the board.
Then you run a video cable (preferably svideo cable for best picture) to your video capture device.
Most people get a GV-USB2 video capture device like this:
https://www.amazon.com/DATA-connection-video-capture-GV-USB2/dp/B00428BF1Y (https://www.amazon.com/DATA-connection-video-capture-GV-USB2/dp/B00428BF1Y)

This is what captured/streamed video from DK looks like:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1490827588 (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1490827588)

This is what the Mr. Video card looks like:
Title: Re: Mr. Video RGB-to-NTSC Converter
Post by: leejunfan777 on June 01, 2022, 09:40:47 am
Sent a message through facebook, dunno if thats the best way.
would love to have a Mr. Video in my life  :P

cheers