Donkey Kong Forum
Blogs => Player Blogs => Topic started by: mrvaya on August 03, 2014, 10:10:58 am
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Hi there
Each day I employ 4 men in the construction industry (3 men from early morning and yet another meeting a tad later using his flex-time) - and we specialize in every kind of work regarding barrels, rivets, elevators and even conveyors.
We have been working our asses off lately specialising in meeting the demands for all kind of constructional services and in providing it with efficiency and the highest level of professionalism (mostly by focusing on safety).
We are doing just fine and are avaging around 120k a day. A few days ago, we even exceeded our PB and sat a new record of 198,100 for a day work. Pretty neat! ☺
The problem:
I am troubled with the many casual deaths of my workers on the construction sites and thereby the delay in reaching further goals (not to mention the feeling of guilt).
I have read Mitch’s manual of constructional work and the many many expert advises on this site which have helped me a whole lot in educating my emplyees about the importance of safety. However, I still feel responsible for each death which primarily comes from me not keeping my head cool and giving lethal orders to my men.
The question to my fellow entrepreneurs:
How much practice is needed for keeping calm - and without hesitation provide the correct orders that you know so well from theory?
;D ;D ;D
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Kappa 3 months
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Love it, such prose Kreygasm welcome sir.
It varies from person to person, but actively trying to "look at all the possible outs" and delaying the decision making generally prevents you from "jumping to the conclusions mat" (office space) <Pigger> which may or may not lead to increased survival. Sometimes it's good to think about 2 or 3 ways to deal with a situation, then prioritize them in your mind, ie. If not A, than B, etc. and think about what situations will cause you to go from b- to c-strategy. Also, you are likely still at a point where you haven't seen a large percentage of the "statistically uncommon deaths"; once you've died a 1000+ different ways on the barrel board you are better prepared to decide on what is the most likely way out, you will begin to recognize these rare death scenarios (say, once ever 10-15 games), you will have the most common risks on your mind at all times and then you will be more likely to survive longer.
That's just my 2 cents. Major kudos on your first post, got em.
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Kappa 3 months
Thank you Wes (know your name from the forum). That was exactly as exact as I would love it to be. ROFL
I'll take you on your word - and will conduct further practice assured I'll hit the KS when i have put in 3 months of playing time.
Actually - I remember a thread of yours a few month old where you speak about wild barrels. Whats caught my eye was your sentence: "Once I hit L5 I can run boards to the kill screen if I play a safe and conservative game". Would you care to elaborate a bit on this topic especially regarding a "conservative" way to transition from 3th to 5th girder and grabbing the hammer? (when I hit 5th girder, paying attention to kongs animation and grabbing hammer - I have no problems).
ATM I often cope to get to L5 with all men, and then my typical deaths are caused by poor judgement on barrel-transition and stupid deaths on conveyor (se below) :)
Love it, such prose Kreygasm welcome sir.
It varies from person to person, but actively trying to "look at all the possible outs" and delaying the decision making generally prevents you from "jumping to the conclusions mat" (office space) <Pigger> which may or may not lead to increased survival. Sometimes it's good to think about 2 or 3 ways to deal with a situation, then prioritize them in your mind, ie. If not A, than B, etc. and think about what situations will cause you to go from b- to c-strategy. Also, you are likely still at a point where you haven't seen a large percentage of the "statistically uncommon deaths"; once you've died a 1000+ different ways on the barrel board you are better prepared to decide on what is the most likely way out, you will begin to recognize these rare death scenarios (say, once ever 10-15 games), you will have the most common risks on your mind at all times and then you will be more likely to survive longer.
That's just my 2 cents. Major kudos on your first post, got em.
Thanks you so much for the warm welcome. You draw an excellent point about putting in some more practice (and experience more deaths) - and I for sure will. Actually I know for sure, that I still die from situations, which I have experienced before and still not learned (enough) from yet (silly pie-deaths on conveyor is one example). Then are to come the deaths I still haven't seen. So agonizing and yet drawing it is to "get to work" and learn the more advanced stuff that hopefully will take me to the KS. Also very good point about prioritizing plan a,b etc. Simple - still I haven't thought about it that much on the barrel screen (I feel more forced to make plan a and b's on conveyer/rivet and 3th elevator of course).
Thank you both for replying.
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I definitely second both Wes and Ethan. Ethan has it spot on in terms of what type of mentality one ought to have in a given situation, and Wes's "3 months" is a very reliable estimate for how long it takes for the average gamer to start having things click (given a few serious attempts every day or so).
If you're really having trouble with the barrel transitions up to the top, I'd suggest a mix of two extreme forms of training.
1) Practice playing the barrel boards in a super-cautious manner, where you over-do trying to steer barrels above you out of the way until there is a very clear gap for you to proceed and climb up to the next girder.
2) Practice playing on 1-1 with a super rushed mentality, trying to climb barrels and not waste any time steering more than is absolutely needed.
The combination of practicing these two extremes might help you a lot in learning to judge both 1) the safety hazards of the barrels above you if you don't steer certain barrels, (not to mention both methods will work together to fine-tune and calibrate your sense of how much wiggle room you really have for climbing a ladder before you have to back out/can't make it) and 2) it will teach you to be more patient when reason tells you not to rush and just wait it out by steering instead (as lots of people get aggravated by any sort of "hiccup" kong sends their way that slows them from completing a screen).
Hope you have a break-through so no more of your employees perish!
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I definitely second both Wes and Ethan. Ethan has it spot on in terms of what type of mentality one ought to have in a given situation, and Wes's "3 months" is a very reliable estimate for how long it takes for the average gamer to start having things click (given a few serious attempts every day or so).
If you're really having trouble with the barrel transitions up to the top, I'd suggest a mix of two extreme forms of training.
1) Practice playing the barrel boards in a super-cautious manner, where you over-do trying to steer barrels above you out of the way until there is a very clear gap for you to proceed and climb up to the next girder.
2) Practice playing on 1-1 with a super rushed mentality, trying to climb barrels and not waste any time steering more than is absolutely needed.
The combination of practicing these two extremes might help you a lot in learning to judge both 1) the safety hazards of the barrels above you if you don't steer certain barrels, (not to mention both methods will work together to fine-tune and calibrate your sense of how much wiggle room you really have for climbing a ladder before you have to back out/can't make it) and 2) it will teach you to be more patient when reason tells you not to rush and just wait it out by steering instead (as lots of people get aggravated by any sort of "hiccup" kong sends their way that slows them from completing a screen).
Hope you have a break-through so no more of your employees perish!
Hi mitch - Thank you for replying. Love your manual!
Also thank you for the training advises, which sounds great. Yeah I feel like i have gathered enough information but need some sort of breaktrough. There are probably more than one future breakthrough ahead :)
The last few days I actually improved by the advise in your manual about NOT to steer the barrel over kongs ladder and Deans take on "early jumps".
Thanks.
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When I think "conservative" play, in my head I imagine:
- Throwing away as many barrels as possible
- Taking only "safe" ladders. The further away a ladder is from the center of the screen, the more dangerous it is to take due to the lack of escape room. Fk far left on 2nd girder and far right on 3rd girder in particular until you're comfortable grabbing bottom hammer.
- Being willing to run out the clock on pie factories and rivet boards to 0 just to avoid dying. As a beginner, it's always better to let the timer kill you than die due to poor judgment.
I always reference this video when I talk about safe play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTThrfLiml4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTThrfLiml4)
Also remember, the longer you are on a barrel board the more difficult the transition will be.
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Thank you for explaining Wes. It means a lot to such a newcomer as me to get a grasp of the nuances i the game from a pro :) I've seen your record and am utterly impressed!!
I am aware of the hazards of being on the extreme ends of the girders and always use the middle ladders from the 2th to the 4th girder unless the situation calls for something else (rare).
However, do you also believe using the long ladder from 4th to 5th girder is more conservative than taking the small ladder/grabbing hammer? (And then skip top hammer completely?)
Yeah I saw Vince's video a few days ago. Impressive!! He makes the game look very easy. I noticed that he is skipping top hammer as well but was unsure of the reason (speed vs. safety).
Oh - yes I am beginning to realize the great benefits of patience on the conveyor/rivets. Especially do I feel this hold true on conveyor on L5+ when the free pass seems less typical.
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I think you will likely hear both 'sides of the fence' with regards to which ladder is safer. I achieved my high score without the long ladder (maybe a few times, for specific safety reasons) <Pigger> . If you want to take the short ladder, you must be mindful of kongs cycle, so you can avoid taking a wild barrel to the dome when you're climbing. As long as you are not climbimg at the wrong time (avoiding the dreaded 1/16th <Allen> ) <Pigger> , that ladder is not only shorter and faster, but it removes the need to cross under the bomb-drop zone on the 5th girder and having to wait for another cycle of kong and barrel release before grabbing the hammer. The middle ladder is also good, once you pass level 4 internal difficulty, you can climb that middle ladder from the right-side, without any regard for wild barrels or kong cycles. Obviously, being aware of what will be at the top of the ladder is helpful and necessary for survival, but the wild barrel 1/16 death is no longer a concern.
tl;dr either work well if you pay attention to the monkey Kreygasm
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Vince was skipping top hammer because he was trying to KS as fast as possible. Pretend he's grabbing top hammer and you're set. Grabbing it is much safer than avoiding it entirely, but Vince knows how to deal with the occasional tricky group that will happen.
Which ladder on the 4th girder is safer will always be debatable, but I recommend beginners take the left-most ladder for a few reasons:
- 1/16 is much easier to dodge than a bomb. Though bombs will brush you on the left ladder, they will never actually kill you. If you take the right ladder, while you approach the hammer you risk being hit. This is the cause of a lot of deaths in 1.1m pace games.
- You need to have the mechanic of avoiding the 1/16 on the far left ladder for when you want to eventually up your pace. You can't avoid that ladder forever, and it's better to build good habits/mechanics sooner rather than later.
- You have less potential of getting screwed by the one-in-a-thousand super aggressive fireball that takes far left. They will immediately be in your target path as you grab the hammer, rather than you being forced to sometimes forget about it entirely.
- You don't have to worry about shit barrel groups that you don't have the experience to jump/avoid at this stage of learning the game.
For high pace games, the righter ladder is the better choice. For low pace games I am convinced the left ladder is the better option.
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Mrvaya: Usually, I only acknowledge the existence of DK kill screeners. But because of this amazing first post, you deserve my recognition! Kappa
Joke aside, welcome to the community mate. You seem like a funny guy!
I'm Vincent, and yeah, top hammer definitely adds a lot of time during a game (and my first man kill screen was a speed run attempt, so I had to gain as much time as possible).
I hope you the best to improve your game ;-). Reading the manual is definitely a good start, and if you combine that with watching other people stream Donkey Kong, + some practice, you're all set to become the 69th kill screener! <Allen>
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Ethan:
Good to hear that others also thinks the leftmost ladder is a conservative choice. I was beginning to feel crazy for having the urge to take that route :)
When you refer to "1/16th", does it just mean wild barrels because each barrel released has a probability of 1/16 to become wild?
Oh yeah on internal difficulty of 5 you are protected from wild barrels on the long ladder. But not if you enter it from the left? Think I can recall reading about this earlier but have completely forgotten. Thanks for reminding me.
Wes:
Thanks for the wellfounded clarification of "dk conservatism". It is very valuable for me.
And about the shit barrel groups: yeah - if i take the long ladder and skip hammer I regularly get to steer down a barrel from the unbroken ladder between the 5th and 6th ladder which with another barrel is forming a X_X formation which I still die from a bit too often. Dont know why I feel so "rushy" without the hammer :)
Vince:
Oh dear lord - I feel star-strucked!! :) Actually I had two donkey kong goals:
1. Reach the killscreen.
2. Get recognition from Mr. Lemay himself :)
Never had I though to reach the second and foremost goal before the the first one. :)
Joke aside as well: thanks for welcoming me which actually is quite encouraging after I have been studying your amazing archievements (even saw your weightlifting vid :))
I really want spot 69. Might even get a tattoo with the numbers if I get it. :) Guess all kill screeners have their number immortalized on their body?? :)
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Everybody in this forum enjoys to have new DK comers Kreygasm
Becoming the 69th kill screener would be extremely hard, since few people that haven't yet gotten a kill screen will most likely get it within a week or two. Becoming the 69th kill screener is the holy grail of Donkey Kong Kappa. But hey, maybe you have Jeff Willm's genetics and you'll reach a kill screen within a month of playing! <Allen>
Watch as much streams as possible to help your gameplay! Good luck!
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Thanks for the advice. I'll make sure to have a lot of stream-watching included on my training schedule. I also have been trying to setup some streaming myself hoping to get a bit of crititism from better players - until now without much luck because of a lot of stuttering. Will try again with a more downscaled resolution when I get back from my vacation. Luckily I have brought a laptop with MAME on the trip. :) ;D
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Welcome and best of luck on the KS quest.
I've started casually playing DK around October then decided to "get serious" and really gun for the KS in April when I joined the forum. I probably play 2-3 games a night and the furthest I've gotten is 9-6. It's an uphill battle for sure.
If i'm lucky, maybe I'll be the 100th KSer Kappa
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Welcome to the forum man! Hope to see you at Chassis Arcade! Its not common to meet someone else in Denmark set on going for the kill screen, would be cool to chat about some Donkey Kong.
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Thank you Shnypz - what are your PB and are you aware of the skills you need to develop to go further? What are most frequently causing your deaths? You'll get that KS sooner or later :)
I've been training a bit and just got a new PB with 231,200 (L8). A nice leap for me - I have been chasing that 200k-mark for some time. I'm beginning to avoid some of the worst deaths, that I couldn't get by earlier (except from wasting a life by knocking my head on the elevator in the aforementioned PB-game). Still a lot of the techniques are far from permanent incorporated in my games - so I much practice more :)
New goal 300k.
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Welcome to the forum man! Hope to see you at Chassis Arcade! Its not common to meet someone else in Denmark set on going for the kill screen, would be cool to chat about some Donkey Kong.
Thanks Svavar. I might drop by. I definitely could use some expert advice from you. Actually I have heard of you already. I've read (perhaps on Chassis' website) that you frequent the arcade and are highly skilled (the numbers don't lie :)). Did you set your record at their place?
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Thank you Shnypz - what are your PB and are you aware of the skills you need to develop to go further? What are most frequently causing your deaths? You'll get that KS sooner or later :)
I've been training a bit and just got a new PB with 231,200 (L8). A nice leap for me - I have been chasing that 200k-mark for some time. I'm beginning to avoid some of the worst deaths, that I couldn't get by earlier (except from wasting a life by knocking my head on the elevator in the aforementioned PB-game). Still a lot of the techniques are far from permanent incorporated in my games - so I much practice more :)
New goal 300k.
Nice man, you're progressing quickly. My current PB is 317,500. I'm in a serious rut right now. Not sure what's going on. Might just be bad luck at the moment. The wild barrels and fireballs on the pie levels haven't been going my way lately. I'm taking a break from streaming until I can get back over 200k on a regular basis. At the end of June, leading up to DKO#3 and shortly after I was playing great. It seemed to fall off a cliff in early July. DKO#4 is in a few weeks so something's got to give soon.
The main thing I need to keep getting better at are the 4+ springs. Deaths are extremely avoidable on those levels and I still take a spring to the foot semi-regularly.
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Nice score Shnypz. Hope to join you soon :)
Do not like to hear about your rut. However - I have tried something similar a few times which often happen to me when I am just expecting to reach higher scores from playing more. Seems that the training and work to become better gets tougher the higher you get. Anyone else feels the same? I though that somehow you should "just" develop certain skills - and thereafter could "marathon" to the killscreen.
Hit in the foot? Making the final run too late?
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Maybe a bit late to 'pipe in' here, but...
I just read the original post in this thread, and can't stop laughing... bravo sir!
As a professionally-qualified English teacher in a university in Spain, may I congratulate you on your *mastery* of the English language. And Godspeed on your mastery of barrels, rivets, conveyors and springs!
Good luck and thank you for making me laugh so much ;D
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Thank you sir for your kind words. And thank you for the godspeed as well which is highly appreciated in the great quest of answering that simple yet so time consuming game-question: How high can you get? :)
Something that seems to (also) be holding true for DK: Only by reaching for the impossible you will find your true potential.
Game on :)
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Hit in the foot? Making the final run too late?
Double long spring set and didn't notice the 2nd long spring in time to retreat. Typically hits me in the foot as i attempt to climb the final ladder. I'm trying to develop good peripheral vision where I'm mainly looking at jumpman but can still ID a long "retreat" spring as I make a run for it. I'm still working on. I attempted the "focus on the springs and not jumpman" method. I can do it ok but retreating is not as reliable.
Hope I explained that well enough :o
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Double long spring set and didn't notice the 2nd long spring in time to retreat. Typically hits me in the foot as i attempt to climb the final ladder. I'm trying to develop good peripheral vision where I'm mainly looking at jumpman but can still ID a long "retreat" spring as I make a run for it. I'm still working on. I attempted the "focus on the springs and not jumpman" method. I can do it ok but retreating is not as reliable.
Hope I explained that well enough :o
Sure - I understand. Though you ment a hit in the right foot caused med the long/very short spring combination, which I think is avoidable with ultra speedy timing (someone knows for sure?)
Have you tried focusing on the trajectory that the second spring enters the screen, which are more aggressive on the long jumpy springs thats gonna hit you? Give you a bit more time to retreat than waiting to see how it line up with top of the elevator.
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I did all my personal bests at Chassis except for my current score. My current PB was set at the Shed in Kerteminde. Its an awesome private collection of dedicated cabinets. A group of us are going on the 15th, you should check out the Shed's facebook page if you wanna join!
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Nice Svavar. You are a true asset for the danish "arcadery". Just saw a vid of your 1M+ PB. I am impressed!
So far I'm happy with mame - but will take a look at "The Shed". Thank you for the invitation.
Oh - and almost reached my new goal of 300k today with at new PB of 288,600 (only second game I'd played after my last PB). Think at last I'm beginning to understand what a "conservative" game is. With more practice and a bit more consistence I seem able to make a few leaps forward in the near future. Glad I brought the computer on my vacation ;D
Note for myself: never climb the right- og leftmost ladder if the pies are coming from that particular side...
(EDIT: meant never move up ANY ladder if a pie just passed by and kong is near the left side shifting direction on the conveyors).
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Closing in on my 300k-target with a new PB of 294,600. Deaths: Conveyor=2, Barrels=2. Of the deaths on barrels, one should be easily avoidable (easy jump where I was too focused on the barrels above me and didn't time jump correctly) and the other somehow avoidable (in a pressed situation I overlooked a fireball coming up from the ladder underneath me).
However, I still have some problems with the conveyor stage: If I wait on the ladders on the lower part of the stage and decide to make a move for the above conveyor and a fireball suddenly surprise me with an aggressive move down the platform - I often find myself trapped between a pie and the fireball.
Guess one should make sure to always have an "exit-route" before moving? <gasp>
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Practiced a bit on the conveyor (and made small adjustments on elevator) and have eliminated some of the most silly deaths... and then it came: A new PB of 311,400! Boom baby. Yes I know its just "survival-pace" but fine with me. Going for that KS ;D
New goal: 400k.
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Nice work -- keep it up
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Awesome! Insane progress d00d.
I bumped my PB to 332,600 the other day. I'm also gunning for 400k 8)
Good luck!
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Awesome! Insane progress d00d.
I bumped my PB to 332,600 the other day. I'm also gunning for 400k 8)
Good luck!
Thanks mate. Glad to hear that you are still showing me the way ;D Guess you were on L10+ for the first time? I just exactly missed it >:(
I aim to take down 400k in this week. You coming?
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Awesome! Insane progress d00d.
I bumped my PB to 332,600 the other day. I'm also gunning for 400k 8)
Good luck!
Thanks mate. Glad to hear that you are still showing me the way ;D Guess you were on L10+ for the first time? I just exactly missed it >:(
I aim to take down 400k in this week. You coming?
haha, I hope so. Yeah, first time on L=10. Game ended on 10-1 due to impatience/dumb move. FailFish I also had 2 annoying deaths on 5-1 along the way. I was ready to restart at that point but played out the game anyway.
I have a hitbox clip of the game but there are audio problems. The video isn't the best. Gonna try to work out the audio problems before tonight's play session.
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Nice work, guys! Getting into the 300Ks is when it all starts to come together. Pretty soon you'll be up in the 500-600Ks!
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Unfortunately I couldn't keep up with my gaming goal of hitting 400k within this week. Seems a bit harder than I thought it would be. ;D
Today I had a new PB of the first man of something like 150k... but then died quick and shameful deaths and came no near my record.
But... Lets quote former president Rosewelt:
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat"
Yes I know - its just a game... but I want those 400k ;D
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Love it. Be a man in the arena sir, always.
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A year off (yes i'm disgusted myself!! *puke*) - but now I'm back still hungering for that KS.
Now with a stream: www.twitch.tv/mrvaya (http://www.twitch.tv/mrvaya)
I've lost a bit of practice - but after only a few attemps I can still archieve around 200k. Hope to be back in good shape soon and hopefully you guys will give help and some comments on how to get to that KS.
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Love it mate! Best of luck
:)
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Ok - are quickly coming back in shape. Came close to my 311k-PB with a score of 273k: http://www.twitch.tv/mrvaya/v/12265297. (http://www.twitch.tv/mrvaya/v/12265297.) Three of the deaths were on the rivet-stages. I never run the weave-pattern. How essential are that pattern to survival and when should one apply it? Any other advices?
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Ok - got close to my 311-pb with a score of 292k today. Since I now play on wolfmame I think its about time to hit the highscore list and have posted the game in the HS-section.
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Ok - definitely back in shape again! Finally beated my one year old 311k-score and archieved a new PB of 336k. Feels great! :)
Finally beginning to understand when to abandon the star pattern on the rivet-stages, stop dying on the elevator-stages and minimizing the risk of bad randomness on pie- and rivet-stages. Also making paying true attention the kong-cycles are beginning to feel really good. Of course there are still many adjustments that could be made.
Its seems that the next step for me to go reach 400-500k are overall consistency and some more proper barrel jumping when meeting those dreaded combos :)
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New PB of 338k :)
Since it is such a small increase from my former highscore (336k), I do not want to cause trouble submitting it to the highscore-list.
The true miletone of this game however is my PB of 222k on one man. I was feeling I could keep on going forever - and then suddently a couple of deaths - and it was all over! Guess that is Donkey Kong :)
I am beginning to feel, it is possible to take down some major scores.
http://www.twitch.tv/mrvaya/v/17368146 (http://www.twitch.tv/mrvaya/v/17368146)