Donkey Kong Forum
Related Games => Donkey Kong 3 => Topic started by: homerwannabee on October 26, 2017, 05:13:13 pm
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OK, I'm putting it out there. My Donkey Kong 3 record might be harder to beat than the Galaga record. Specifically the Marathon records. Especially the 6.1 million score on Difficulty 3, and the Medium on Difficulty 2.
Now before you burn me at the stake for heresy, let me explain. I am not saying 100% it's harder to beat, just the numbers would suggest so.
First off, yeah Galaga was widely popular. Having said that the 15.9 million record is not a dominant record. There are seven other scores within half of that.
For the 8.7 million, and 6.1 million scores there isn't a single score within half of that.
The argument against this is Steve Wagner getting a million on his third try. Still Wagner is a freak of nature in CAG gaming. He can casually play a tournament, and get a top five. Also getting to a million on easy settings is helped by the game awarding a man every 30,000.
Next in the argument is the fact that Galaga doesn't have randomness. On the higher level s there are I think three or four different boards. Those boards the ships come out in the same place, at the same speed.
This is not the case with Donkey Kong 3. The bugs come out at different speeds. This can be seen when using the super spray. Sometimes the bugs are right on you, and you barely get him to the top. Sometimes bugs lay back, and let you easily get him to the top.
Next is there simply isn't as much to deal with. Most of the enemies are killed in the first wave. After that you have three different bugs not counting the bonus bugs.
For Donkey Kong 3 you have soooo much going on. The game has a timer, meaning you have to kill them all before the timer runs out, and the vine eaters eat the ropes to let Donkey Kong down.
Next, and this is important. You have enemies that can't be killed with regular spray.
With the worms they will block your shot of other bugs, and if you're not paying attention or are stuck in a corner they'll sneak up on you, and kill you simply by touching you.
Donkey Kong just hangs out, and constantly throws coconuts in your direction. Plus you have to constantly be spraying him so he doesn't hit the bottom, and kill you.
Without the super spray Donkey Kong is basically the nearly unbeatable boss enemy.
Next is the fact Galaga enemies can be killed in one shot.
With DK3 the queen bees take two shots, and they don't die peacefully. They explode in four pieces. When that happens sometimes you are dodging the explosion, and Donkey Kong's coconut at the same time.
Having said all of that, I do recognize the speed of the galaga bugs are much faster, and if you screw up the beginning, you are in major trouble as they rain down bullets on you.
Also Galaga has 17 men they give you while DK3 gives out 37. Also you get a super spray after every death, and you can pass through the blue board with not much of a problem.
Plus, like I said, there was so much competition back in the day.
So yeah, I basically am comparing apples to oranges again in a way, but I firmly believe there is at least a decent argument to support that Donkey Kong 3 is the tougher record to break.
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False
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False
So what's the major hard part of Galaga. The unforgiving nature of the game if you screw up? That's definitely the thing a lot of people overlook with the game.
Still, it'll be interesting as you progress in Donkey Kong 3 if you'll maintain that belief.
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Really though, I'd like to hear a good argument on how Galaga is such a hard record to break. It kinda sucks that I have to present both sides of the argument.
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Settle down
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It's a wash.
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So hard to compare considering how popular and accessible Galaga was back in the day.
I reckon if DK3 had Galaga's popularity and numbers across the world, you'd probably still be in the top 20 DK3 players today George.
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So you're saying that the 20th best Galaga score is equal to my record?
I know you don't have much experience with Donkey Kong 3, and so I'll put it in a way for you to understand. My Donkey Kong 3 record is about five times harder to beat than my Atari 2600 Galaxian record.
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ROFL
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If it helps any, I got 1m on reg.speed Galaga w/extra lives at the arcade BITD when I was 10. It was my go to game when my mom was shopping and I only had 1 quarter and needed to spend a lot of time without any money. So 1m at 10 years old vs 1m on 3 tries as an adult....hmmm.....we might need <Mruczek> to settle this.
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Also, when Barra gets both records, we'll let him decide which is tougher I reckon.
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what in the f <confused>
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Since not a single person can give a valid argument against my assertions, than it must be DK3 is the harder record to break.
Or people just don't care, and would rather make fun of me.
No, it can't be that it's DK3 being harder to break. 8)
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lol
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ROFL
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Good thread.
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I am waiting to hear a consensus on which record is harder to beat.
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I am waiting to hear a consensus on which record is harder to beat.
I think it's pretty clear.
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I am waiting to hear a consensus on which record is harder to beat.
I think it's pretty clear.
Actually, no it's not. Poking fun at someone doesn't count as an argument whatsoever.
If this was a college debate I would win by default because the other side refused to bring any evidence to the table.
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I am waiting to hear a consensus on which record is harder to beat.
I think it's pretty clear.
Actually, no it's not. Poking fun at someone doesn't count as an argument whatsoever.
If this was a college debate I would win by default because the other side refused to bring any evidence to the table.
1) This isn't a college debate. And you brought opposition research to the table anyway.
2) I've added a poll to settle the issue once and for all.
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Poll <Kuh>
I voted no, but its pretty close
-You get double the amount of lives in DK3
-Galaga is a wayyyy more popular/known game so you'd expect there to be a number of scores close to the record (although how many were actually done we'll never know)
-If it was easier to take down I think it would have been already. There's been no reports of any scores above 8m since the 80s. MAME WR is only 6.8m by the same person.
-DK3 appears harder to beat because you're so far in front of everyone else. Its just been played less and who other than yourself has played it enough to even try for the record. Most people get 1m and move on.
-If you miss in DK3 you are generally able to get out of it. Missing in Galaga a lot of the time is death.
Counter-arguments:
-You can take infinite breaks on stage 0 on galaga
-Bonus stages give a welcome break and are easy points for little effort
Riley loves it.
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I am gonna have to vote no, just based on what's true for me personally.
I will never sniff being any closer than 20% of the way to either of these records, but of the two, I enjoy playing DK3 more, and if I HAD to pursue one, that's definitely the one I'd go for.
While DK3 can rile me up under some circumstances, I can also zone into it and float for long periods and feel pretty good.
With Galaga, there is not a moment where I don't feel constantly and insanely stressed over the threat of losing my doubled ship, or, if it's already gone, the naked, hungry desperation to get it back. I never feel at ease or "cruising", and it's gotten to the point where the explosion sound has an actual physical effect on my nervous system. This game can find and pull out rage that I didn't know I had.
See first 40 sec of this video, which, for me, is Galaga in microcosm: https://go.twitch.tv/videos/41724634
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See first 40 sec of this video, which, for me, is Galaga in microcosm: https://go.twitch.tv/videos/41724634 (https://go.twitch.tv/videos/41724634)
One of my favorite clips of all time. Thanks for that
Edit: this one is also good - https://www.twitch.tv/videos/43874378 (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/43874378)
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Alright, I finally got some arguments for Galaga! Also one, I forgot about. Getting that second man is very difficult once you lose one of your two men. You can easily lose another man with single ship.
So yeah, the game is easy when you have two ships, and are doing what you're supposed to. But if you screw up, the game becomes insanely hard at times.
So I am going to do something that'll surprise people. Yes, Galaga is the harder record to break.
For me, I have no problem saying that. It's a gold star record. As far as golden age shooter games it's in the top two of shooter games. Perhaps Galaxian gives Galaga a run for it's money. Two million on Galaxian Arcade/MAME is crazy hard.
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They are both great records on their own merit and are hard to fully compare
Even though the Galaga record is harder to break, it is much more likely to happen.
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See first 40 sec of this video, which, for me, is Galaga in microcosm: https://go.twitch.tv/videos/41724634
LOL. I totally see your point. :D
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Perhaps Galaxian gives Galaga a run for it's money. Two million on Galaxian Arcade/MAME is crazy hard.
Again, I totally agree. The average Galaga player can't get 2M using dual ships and an additional 14 men in their arsenal, let alone 2M on Galaxian using nothing but a pea shooter that fires bullets at half the speed with enemies swooping down on you from one side of the screen to the other. Not a very forgiving game by far. Great thread btw George. :D